Anime caters to the audience, instead of Western media, which preaches to its audience. Anime which features lolis does it to sell product to pedos.
Anime isn't like TV shows in the US. Instead of going for mass market appeal, anime studios often try to cultivate a small fan base of whales who will pay huge amounts of money for physical products. This is why a lot of shitty anime is packed full of formulaic fetish bait. And one of those fetishes is lolis.
Japan, culturally, worships youth and cuteness, which results in many adults expressing attitudes towards young people that would come across as creepy in the US. However, nobody in Japan actually thinks its okay to fuck kids, and they have one of the strictest age of consent laws in Asia. Japanese attitudes towards and desire for "young / cute / innocent" isn't necessarily sexual, and imo generally isn't, but us Westerners see everything as sexual since our own culture revolves around sexualizing teens without admitting it.
The vast majority of anime, especially the popular big name franchises, don't have this shit in them.
Men who fap to lolis are gross, but there are no victims. It's a cartoon, not a person, and it doesn't look anything like a human being. If we ban/criminalized them, we should be banning and criminalizing faggots, trannies, dykes, and fat chicks since all those groups gross me out, too. The rationale for persecuting these creepy dudes is the misguided and wrong notion that they will inevitably attack a real child. That's actually wrong, according to psych researchers who study this in the US.
Japan has far less crime than elsewhere like the US, including sex crimes, so going to Japan and trying to shame them saying "you should be like us" is a pretty shit sales pitch.
I disagree on the "it's for pedo's" crap as the lolisho fetish is separate from pedophilia.
While I do believe you on the strict age of consent laws, their complexity is infamous for causing confusion in foreigners as they frequently falsely claim it's 13.
their complexity is infamous for causing confusion in foreigners as they frequently falsely claim it's 13.
That's just the foreigners being stupid. Just like the US sets AOC at the state level, Japan does too at the prefecture level, from 16 to 18 exactly like the US.
There is a super old national law that says "13" but that's superseded by all the other local laws. Apparently this is being raised to 16 soon just because the Japanese are sick of people saying it wrong.
bro, people aren't upvoting me because they're pedos, and nobody here faps to lolis.
people like you are part of the problem. your extreme moral panic and sensitivity to dumb shit like lolis takes away from the real groomer shit like "Cuties".
the real reason Vice went on the attack against Japan is because Japan is a socially conservative society that isn't open to immigrants.
If you're a censorious canceller, you pave the path for other censorious cancellers.
"Just a liiiittle evil, just a smidge! Only for my own personal most desired definitely just minor evil!" is not a good policy. Time and time again we have concrete proven evidence that "slippery slope" is not in fact a fallacy, but a prophecy.
So your implication is that I'm a pedo, right? Typical of NPCs like you.
I have a girlfriend who is older than I am, with giant titties. I think lolis are gross.
The real answer Because I'm a lawyer and I'm familiar with criminal cases involving sexual offenses. These cases are often irrational and don't actually try to do what is best to protect children. I think it is an extreme moral panic in the US and that people aren't capable of talking rationally about it because of dumbfucks like you who screech PEDOOOO PEEEDDOOOO at anything that moves.
There are legitimate threats to children in the US, primarily from Left wing LGBT activists, and the sexualization of little girls such as depicted in "Cuties" and encouraged by TikTok, not from some neckbeard who likes cartoons.
All I know is that the country that has cartoons with sexy high schoolers in them doesn't seem to have actual ritualized child sex abuse being performed in every major city with the full protection and support of the local police.
Loli is no good because it's Japan's status quo. Remember, these people are moral relativists, and destabilizing nations is more important to them than being morally consistent.
That's why they'll attack Japan for cartoons, but run articles sympathising with 'MAPs' in the US and Europe.
Saw this reported on by Rev, the whole thing is equivalent to 'video games cause violence' by saying 'lolicon causes child molestation' meanwhile they don't try to say anything about entire groups like Epstein or orphanages run like brothels around the world.
It seems the standard "blame art than actually try to solve the issue" as you can not like lolicon and just choose to not view it same with violent video games. Then again it's VICE, wouldn't be surprised if they framed this for the clicks then shut off comments because of the amount of people calling them out on it.
He's not entirely wrong, though. Most of the loudest male feminists have turned out to be guilty of sexual harassment of some sort. Not all of them, of course. But I would hazard a guess that the method they use to decry it could be very telling.
If he says: "We should not show any paedophilic content or sexualising of children", then fair enough.
But if he says: "We should not show any loli content because that gives people the desire to have sex with children", then I think it'd be worthwhile to look a bit closer at that person's behaviour and history.
I get it, it makes people uncomfortable. Peddling disgusting drawings of underage children is abhorrent and objectionable.
But, as anyone with a refractory period can tell you, there's nothing sexual going on during post-nut clarity.
If there was a way for pedophiles to all be clammed up in their own homes with their dicks in their hands instead of using it on kids, I would be in favor of that plan. Even better, it has zero cost in finding, jailing, or providing material. They figured that out themselves for free.
Because I care more about protecting real children than delicate sensibilities, the only sensible and responsible approach is to follow Japan's example to prevent real crime, not just on loli, not just on practically legalized prostitution, but also on rapefugees.
These statistics should be a disgrace to social policy. The true abhorrent and objectional fact is that there are thousands of kids that experience completely preventable physical and mental trauma.
I think you missed my point. Personally, I'm rather indifferent towards loli art/manga/content. It's everything about grooming and sexualising real children that I can't stand. That goes from everything to the horror stories of the experiences of young Disney stars, to "drag queen story time", to indoctrinating children into becoming politically-active with barely a shred of actual understanding of the issues involved, or to convincing them to permanently genitally mutilate themselves.
But back to the subject, my point was rather that the way people use to decry things often says a lot about the persons themselves. No brain is exactly the same; even identical twins can come to different conclusions when witnessing the same event. The only person whose way of thinking you'll ever really understand, is your own.
So when someone makes a generalized statement like: "Watching this cartoon gives people the desire to have sex with children", well, let's just say that it makes me raise my eyebrows.
Yep, anyone who complains about a thing is automatically guilty of it.
Refutation: Loli and shota is not real. Complaining exclusively about this while turning a blind eye to groomers and CP traders operating on 'public square' platforms with the support of the moderators is the hallmark of a pedophile.
The best way to fight pedophilia is to ignore it and/or support it.
Refutation: That's what twitter did all this time and that didn't work.
Same old same old. Most people who point out and laugh at "weird" Japan or perverted art from there are partakers in that perverted stuff, hence they see those exports more than others. Come to think of it VICE played this exact shtick in Japan many times. Guess it gets the clicks.
Edit: After skimming through the video, it's not exactly how your title made it sound. The whole presentation does have creepy "gaijin tells Japanese how they should behave" vibes, but there are some legitimate concerns.
VICE recently had another round of layoffs, so not surprising that they’re fishing for clicks. Pretty ironic how a far left “news” outlet is using Jack Thompsonian right wing tactics to attack manga.
I honestly couldn't work out what p----s was meant to be without reading the rest of the title bringing up lolis and shota. I would have expected something far less widespread like "p-dos" perhaps but then that would likely upset the footfags/podos.
Look up (or don't) Balenciaga, it started with a picture of a little girl holding a purse that looked like a Teddy bear in bondage to a purse shoot containing a papers linking to two CP cases in the US and now another shoot with a book in the background by Michael Borremans that does 'art' of EXTREMELY messed up shit, mutilated kids, some kind of sacrifice, cultist behaviour, cannibalism...
Yeah it went from 0 to exterminatus REAL FUCKING QUICK
If you're talking about Shoeonhead, she's not halfkia she's a YouTuber, she's a weird mix of quite a bit on the left but HEAVILY calls out anything to do with kids (she made a video calling out the double of female pedophiles when they should be left to rot too like the men)
She was attacked because she's anti LGBT for wanting to protect kids? It's a massive self own that one.
If you ban one type of hentai... itll start a cascade. Like rape hentai would be next even if the characters involved are obviously adults with adult features. Then its blackmail hentai. Then etc etc. Making the argument that this kinda hentai will lead to molestation is as absurd as call of duty causing mass shootings. There are also no victims or perpetrators at all. Drawings/characters are not alive or have rights. Might as well ban drawings of any violence since it might lead to violence. Anyone that reads Berserker is gonna bust out a giant sword and start killing people.
I once read Classroom Of The Elite. Now I have 200IQ and can't even walk down the street without five major city-wide plans going at once. It's tragic how imaginary texts immediately and noticeably effect the real world.
That's a bit pot and kettle, isn't it? I do think Japan's apparent obsession with loli content is questionable, but I could chalk that up to cultural differences. That's not something I can do with people in Western nations. Western males obsessing over underage, or "but she's ackshually...", are creepy. Vice should have talked about them.
Can't believe we've been talking about "groomers" for a couple years now and we still have some people defending sex drawings of 6 year olds. Anime fandom is a common gateway into trans/rainbow grooming btw.
Anime fandom is a common gateway into trans/rainbow grooming btw
There are many demented groups of people that hang around in those circles that prey on and groom kids. Conversely, there are far right anime circles as well. Its worth noting no such trans grooming exists on any noticeable scale in Japan that I've seen (I speak Japanese and tend to seek out all sorts of anime fan communities).
Point being, it isnt the anime cultural sphere itself that is the issue, it is the select groups of freaks who prey upon children. Shitting on anime for that would be akin to shitting on guns if a mass shooter were part of some gun enthusiast group.
Back on the general topic: hate on loli art all you want. Its totally understandable to find it detestable. But it should not be illegal.
Back on the general topic: hate on loli art all you want. Its totally understandable to find it detestable. But it should not be illegal.
It's interesting that expression of disgust with loli always gets interpreted with overtones of censorship. That's somewhat natural though. The more soft cultural power a given viewpoint exercises, the more likely it leads to some type of structural change.
In the case of lolicon I think its fetishists - I'm saying this generally, not saying you're one of them - need to realize the need for a détente with the rest of society.
The problem is that unlike other noxious subcultures, pr0n can't be defended prima facie with freedom of speech. The widespread availability of hardcore porn, and even porn itself, is relatively recent and the only reason it's tolerated isn't because of some kind of principled free speech movement - obscenity laws have been ruled constitutional in the US since the dawn of the country as smut has no meaningful purpose. Its main function is facilitating an activity that anyone can accomplish with their imagination and a free hand and the reason it's legal is simply because because the majority of the population is capable of enjoying heterosexual sex. On the other hand, the majority does not enjoy naked cartoon prepubescent children.
So lolicon can exist within their own little subcultures but when loli weebs throw fits about this or that company censoring them, at some point they will be outnumbered by the number of people who become aware enough to be annoyed by their existence. And they don't have any of the natural protections and failsafes that other groups have.
I agree that making lolicon illegal, using de jure force, is another step on the road to censorship of protected free speech. But culturally, the best it can hope for is that most people don't notice its existence.
There are many demented groups of people that hang around in those circles that prey on and groom kids. Conversely, there are far right anime circles as well. Its worth noting no such trans grooming exists on any noticeable scale in Japan that I've seen (I speak Japanese and tend to seek out all sorts of anime fan communities).
It would be fascinating to learn more about anime communities in Japan, but in America the anime scene - not passive anime viewers, but the people who participate in anime fan events - seems to be a gaggle of ugly people diddling each other.
It's interesting that expression of disgust with loli always gets interpreted with overtones of censorship.
Probably because most of the time if you continue the conversation, the person going out of their way to virtue signal their disgust about it tends to admit they want it banned or made illegal.
That being said, I dont necessarily disagree with most of what you say. I'm not going to be over here advocating for it to be able to be posted everywhere. It should be only in underground, out of the way places where one isn't going to accidentally run into it. And I think its perfectly fine that even in places where it is allowed, it is usually something you have to opt into manually.
But in the current environment where seemingly it is one of the hot things for the giant payment processors to virtue signal over and try to snuff out, it's hard for me not to get annoyed over any internet activism type shit crusading against it. Because once you get rid of something like that which is on the razor's edge of what is allowed, you create a new edge and that is what they will go after next. That, and I hate cultural imperialist bullshit like this where some giant American mega corp forces their shit on Japan.
why do you care about a drawing? it's not a person
This is the most critical part from my perspective. The subject matter here doesn't actually matter, whether you hate it or enjoy it. What people need to understand is criminalizing a drawing is criminalizing something artificial. It's opening the door to thought crime, and actual government regulation of ideas.
If you care about freedom of speech, you need to support allowing people to draw whatever they want. It doesn't need to be looked upon favorably by society, nor does it need to be allowed on all platforms. But it cannot be criminalized, because it will lead to subjective government regulation of media.
Artificially generated CP (which is going to become common, you can't stop it) will sadly make it harder for CP enforcement groups to identify real victims of crime. CP rings will distribute gigs of the fake stuff mixed in with some real pictures. If the law doesn't make ALL photorealistic depictions illegal, that won't be enough to take the groups down unless you can prove which are real. (though some criminals will be stupid enough to brag about having the real shit because they get off on that)
you need to support allowing people to draw whatever they want
What if they just criminalized the distribution? You could make the same argument about drugs. You shouldn't be able to criminalize growing a plant - but you can restrict the commercial use of that plant's products.
I think we actually do need to look more closely at the specific content in question here before making broad judgements. The guy at the top who seems ok with it claims "loli is for pedos"? Really? So loli unambiguously only means "Hardcore depictions of sex with young characters"? Because critics like to apply that label to any manga or anime with young girls in it. (I guess all of us are talking about the former but you never know.)
Japan doesn't have freedom of speech by the way. Their constitution protects a general idea of "freedom of thought", but practically that isn't applied to entertainment. All theoretical though. I don't care what Japan does. They shouldn't do something because enlightened westerners demand it.
yeah, no shit it's for pedos, but more importantly, why do you care about a drawing? it's not a person.
I don't think that's the "more important" part. Posts like this just appear from time to time and loli is disgusting.
There's nothing to prove that pedos satiate their urges with loli porn. It may very well be the case, who knows, but the alternative is possible, that the legal market helps to expand the illegal market. This is what happened with legalized prostitution in Europe as the appetite of johns exceeded the supply.
Yeah people who like their two minutes hate on easy targets are often taking off the heat from their even worse depravity. Normal people just try to forget it exists, although that is sometimes difficult.
The leftist alarmists also got in a tizzy over Spy x Family having the daughter blush when picked up. They said it was clearly loli sexualizing content.
I think they were just mad that a story about a male-female happy and functional paired family that is working against an authoritarian East-German nation became so popular. But their choice of attack was "it literally has a child somewhere in its content, therefore, loli. Therefore, ban."
So "comparing hentai to manga" is a troublesome statement, since the opposition does it a LOT, at least in terms of terminologies, in order to poison the well.
Anime fandom is a common gateway into trans/rainbow grooming btw.
So is videogames. When I play TF2, I can almost guarantee that I'll be playing with someone with a name that references being trans. Not to mention, pedo-central, Discord, started as a videogame chat app.
Of course both of these hobbies pale in comparison to the grooming happening in schools and on social media. I don't think that it's fair to go around blaming hobbies, especially when transgender characters are virtually absent from anime and manga, outside of porn.
So is videogames. When I play TF2, I can almost guarantee that I'll be playing with someone with a name that references being trans. Not to mention, pedo-central, Discord, started as a videogame chat app.
Yes, online multiplayer and Discord are both breeding grounds for trans pests. Any activity that could lead to terminal online disorder generally is. I think you know that Discord is way worse than TF2 though.
Anime caters to the audience, instead of Western media, which preaches to its audience. Anime which features lolis does it to sell product to pedos.
Anime isn't like TV shows in the US. Instead of going for mass market appeal, anime studios often try to cultivate a small fan base of whales who will pay huge amounts of money for physical products. This is why a lot of shitty anime is packed full of formulaic fetish bait. And one of those fetishes is lolis.
Japan, culturally, worships youth and cuteness, which results in many adults expressing attitudes towards young people that would come across as creepy in the US. However, nobody in Japan actually thinks its okay to fuck kids, and they have one of the strictest age of consent laws in Asia. Japanese attitudes towards and desire for "young / cute / innocent" isn't necessarily sexual, and imo generally isn't, but us Westerners see everything as sexual since our own culture revolves around sexualizing teens without admitting it.
The vast majority of anime, especially the popular big name franchises, don't have this shit in them.
Men who fap to lolis are gross, but there are no victims. It's a cartoon, not a person, and it doesn't look anything like a human being. If we ban/criminalized them, we should be banning and criminalizing faggots, trannies, dykes, and fat chicks since all those groups gross me out, too. The rationale for persecuting these creepy dudes is the misguided and wrong notion that they will inevitably attack a real child. That's actually wrong, according to psych researchers who study this in the US.
Japan has far less crime than elsewhere like the US, including sex crimes, so going to Japan and trying to shame them saying "you should be like us" is a pretty shit sales pitch.
I disagree on the "it's for pedo's" crap as the lolisho fetish is separate from pedophilia.
While I do believe you on the strict age of consent laws, their complexity is infamous for causing confusion in foreigners as they frequently falsely claim it's 13.
That's just the foreigners being stupid. Just like the US sets AOC at the state level, Japan does too at the prefecture level, from 16 to 18 exactly like the US.
There is a super old national law that says "13" but that's superseded by all the other local laws. Apparently this is being raised to 16 soon just because the Japanese are sick of people saying it wrong.
Surprisingly based.
bro, people aren't upvoting me because they're pedos, and nobody here faps to lolis.
people like you are part of the problem. your extreme moral panic and sensitivity to dumb shit like lolis takes away from the real groomer shit like "Cuties".
the real reason Vice went on the attack against Japan is because Japan is a socially conservative society that isn't open to immigrants.
Faggot whining like a faggot.
I disagree with censorship in any and all forms.
If you're a censorious canceller, you pave the path for other censorious cancellers.
"Just a liiiittle evil, just a smidge! Only for my own personal most desired definitely just minor evil!" is not a good policy. Time and time again we have concrete proven evidence that "slippery slope" is not in fact a fallacy, but a prophecy.
Cry more
The real pedos are the ones who object to pedos, right?
Fuck off lol
So your implication is that I'm a pedo, right? Typical of NPCs like you.
I have a girlfriend who is older than I am, with giant titties. I think lolis are gross.
The real answer Because I'm a lawyer and I'm familiar with criminal cases involving sexual offenses. These cases are often irrational and don't actually try to do what is best to protect children. I think it is an extreme moral panic in the US and that people aren't capable of talking rationally about it because of dumbfucks like you who screech PEDOOOO PEEEDDOOOO at anything that moves.
There are legitimate threats to children in the US, primarily from Left wing LGBT activists, and the sexualization of little girls such as depicted in "Cuties" and encouraged by TikTok, not from some neckbeard who likes cartoons.
Take your kafkatrap and fuck off.
You, um, used a lot of words to condescendingly say "who cares".
I was...just...wondering...
Why?
I just wanted to mock his stupid way of typing.
All I know is that the country that has cartoons with sexy high schoolers in them doesn't seem to have actual ritualized child sex abuse being performed in every major city with the full protection and support of the local police.
You unfortunately described most of of the world
Clearly all those places need animu jesus-chan.
meanwhile, tranny strippers in front of kids.
Loli is no good because there are no victims who will later grow up to be the left's tranny army.
It's not even that.
Loli is no good because it's Japan's status quo. Remember, these people are moral relativists, and destabilizing nations is more important to them than being morally consistent.
That's why they'll attack Japan for cartoons, but run articles sympathising with 'MAPs' in the US and Europe.
Saw this reported on by Rev, the whole thing is equivalent to 'video games cause violence' by saying 'lolicon causes child molestation' meanwhile they don't try to say anything about entire groups like Epstein or orphanages run like brothels around the world.
It seems the standard "blame art than actually try to solve the issue" as you can not like lolicon and just choose to not view it same with violent video games. Then again it's VICE, wouldn't be surprised if they framed this for the clicks then shut off comments because of the amount of people calling them out on it.
Yeah they're basically trying to start a moral panic. Everyone else is like "meh".
The fourth law of physics states such - anyone bitching about loli/shota is a pedophile.
Yep, anyone who complains about a thing is automatically guilty of it. The best way to fight pedophilia is to ignore it and/or support it.
This is you. This is how retarded you are.
He's not entirely wrong, though. Most of the loudest male feminists have turned out to be guilty of sexual harassment of some sort. Not all of them, of course. But I would hazard a guess that the method they use to decry it could be very telling.
If he says: "We should not show any paedophilic content or sexualising of children", then fair enough.
But if he says: "We should not show any loli content because that gives people the desire to have sex with children", then I think it'd be worthwhile to look a bit closer at that person's behaviour and history.
I get it, it makes people uncomfortable. Peddling disgusting drawings of underage children is abhorrent and objectionable.
But, as anyone with a refractory period can tell you, there's nothing sexual going on during post-nut clarity.
If there was a way for pedophiles to all be clammed up in their own homes with their dicks in their hands instead of using it on kids, I would be in favor of that plan. Even better, it has zero cost in finding, jailing, or providing material. They figured that out themselves for free.
Because I care more about protecting real children than delicate sensibilities, the only sensible and responsible approach is to follow Japan's example to prevent real crime, not just on loli, not just on practically legalized prostitution, but also on rapefugees.
These statistics should be a disgrace to social policy. The true abhorrent and objectional fact is that there are thousands of kids that experience completely preventable physical and mental trauma.
One can't help but notice the increase between 2004 and 2014. Almost like there was an invading army of rapists...
I think you missed my point. Personally, I'm rather indifferent towards loli art/manga/content. It's everything about grooming and sexualising real children that I can't stand. That goes from everything to the horror stories of the experiences of young Disney stars, to "drag queen story time", to indoctrinating children into becoming politically-active with barely a shred of actual understanding of the issues involved, or to convincing them to permanently genitally mutilate themselves.
But back to the subject, my point was rather that the way people use to decry things often says a lot about the persons themselves. No brain is exactly the same; even identical twins can come to different conclusions when witnessing the same event. The only person whose way of thinking you'll ever really understand, is your own.
So when someone makes a generalized statement like: "Watching this cartoon gives people the desire to have sex with children", well, let's just say that it makes me raise my eyebrows.
Lol @ the brown blobbies I wonder how the rate changes without them.
Yep. We even have a few threads here like this one of anti-anime male feminists getting exposed.
yes all of them
You're not fighting pedophilia by going after drawings.
Refutation: Loli and shota is not real. Complaining exclusively about this while turning a blind eye to groomers and CP traders operating on 'public square' platforms with the support of the moderators is the hallmark of a pedophile.
Refutation: That's what twitter did all this time and that didn't work.
Enjoy your mild myocarditis.
Same old same old. Most people who point out and laugh at "weird" Japan or perverted art from there are partakers in that perverted stuff, hence they see those exports more than others. Come to think of it VICE played this exact shtick in Japan many times. Guess it gets the clicks.
Edit: After skimming through the video, it's not exactly how your title made it sound. The whole presentation does have creepy "gaijin tells Japanese how they should behave" vibes, but there are some legitimate concerns.
VICE recently had another round of layoffs, so not surprising that they’re fishing for clicks. Pretty ironic how a far left “news” outlet is using Jack Thompsonian right wing tactics to attack manga.
That doesn't work anymore. America has surpassed Japan with child mutilation and drag queen story hour.
Absolutely. I think lolicon is disgusting and should be heavily legally scrutinized, but I think tranny drag queen story hour is much worse.
Why censor the title?
I honestly couldn't work out what p----s was meant to be without reading the rest of the title bringing up lolis and shota. I would have expected something far less widespread like "p-dos" perhaps but then that would likely upset the footfags/podos.
Well where else do you go when you're just on the precipice of going left but still recognise child molestation/exploitation is wrong?
You seen how hard they attacked Shoeonhead for bringing attention to bondage bear?
Look up (or don't) Balenciaga, it started with a picture of a little girl holding a purse that looked like a Teddy bear in bondage to a purse shoot containing a papers linking to two CP cases in the US and now another shoot with a book in the background by Michael Borremans that does 'art' of EXTREMELY messed up shit, mutilated kids, some kind of sacrifice, cultist behaviour, cannibalism...
Yeah it went from 0 to exterminatus REAL FUCKING QUICK
If you're talking about Shoeonhead, she's not halfkia she's a YouTuber, she's a weird mix of quite a bit on the left but HEAVILY calls out anything to do with kids (she made a video calling out the double of female pedophiles when they should be left to rot too like the men)
She was attacked because she's anti LGBT for wanting to protect kids? It's a massive self own that one.
If you ban one type of hentai... itll start a cascade. Like rape hentai would be next even if the characters involved are obviously adults with adult features. Then its blackmail hentai. Then etc etc. Making the argument that this kinda hentai will lead to molestation is as absurd as call of duty causing mass shootings. There are also no victims or perpetrators at all. Drawings/characters are not alive or have rights. Might as well ban drawings of any violence since it might lead to violence. Anyone that reads Berserker is gonna bust out a giant sword and start killing people.
I once read Classroom Of The Elite. Now I have 200IQ and can't even walk down the street without five major city-wide plans going at once. It's tragic how imaginary texts immediately and noticeably effect the real world.
That's a bit pot and kettle, isn't it? I do think Japan's apparent obsession with loli content is questionable, but I could chalk that up to cultural differences. That's not something I can do with people in Western nations. Western males obsessing over underage, or "but she's ackshually...", are creepy. Vice should have talked about them.
Wait until you hear about western social megacorps being super-permissive with groomers and sex traffickers.
vice casting stones yet again
Loli art is pedo art. Sorry!
Can't believe we've been talking about "groomers" for a couple years now and we still have some people defending sex drawings of 6 year olds. Anime fandom is a common gateway into trans/rainbow grooming btw.
There are many demented groups of people that hang around in those circles that prey on and groom kids. Conversely, there are far right anime circles as well. Its worth noting no such trans grooming exists on any noticeable scale in Japan that I've seen (I speak Japanese and tend to seek out all sorts of anime fan communities).
Point being, it isnt the anime cultural sphere itself that is the issue, it is the select groups of freaks who prey upon children. Shitting on anime for that would be akin to shitting on guns if a mass shooter were part of some gun enthusiast group.
Back on the general topic: hate on loli art all you want. Its totally understandable to find it detestable. But it should not be illegal.
It's interesting that expression of disgust with loli always gets interpreted with overtones of censorship. That's somewhat natural though. The more soft cultural power a given viewpoint exercises, the more likely it leads to some type of structural change.
In the case of lolicon I think its fetishists - I'm saying this generally, not saying you're one of them - need to realize the need for a détente with the rest of society.
The problem is that unlike other noxious subcultures, pr0n can't be defended prima facie with freedom of speech. The widespread availability of hardcore porn, and even porn itself, is relatively recent and the only reason it's tolerated isn't because of some kind of principled free speech movement - obscenity laws have been ruled constitutional in the US since the dawn of the country as smut has no meaningful purpose. Its main function is facilitating an activity that anyone can accomplish with their imagination and a free hand and the reason it's legal is simply because because the majority of the population is capable of enjoying heterosexual sex. On the other hand, the majority does not enjoy naked cartoon prepubescent children.
So lolicon can exist within their own little subcultures but when loli weebs throw fits about this or that company censoring them, at some point they will be outnumbered by the number of people who become aware enough to be annoyed by their existence. And they don't have any of the natural protections and failsafes that other groups have.
I agree that making lolicon illegal, using de jure force, is another step on the road to censorship of protected free speech. But culturally, the best it can hope for is that most people don't notice its existence.
It would be fascinating to learn more about anime communities in Japan, but in America the anime scene - not passive anime viewers, but the people who participate in anime fan events - seems to be a gaggle of ugly people diddling each other.
Probably because most of the time if you continue the conversation, the person going out of their way to virtue signal their disgust about it tends to admit they want it banned or made illegal.
That being said, I dont necessarily disagree with most of what you say. I'm not going to be over here advocating for it to be able to be posted everywhere. It should be only in underground, out of the way places where one isn't going to accidentally run into it. And I think its perfectly fine that even in places where it is allowed, it is usually something you have to opt into manually.
But in the current environment where seemingly it is one of the hot things for the giant payment processors to virtue signal over and try to snuff out, it's hard for me not to get annoyed over any internet activism type shit crusading against it. Because once you get rid of something like that which is on the razor's edge of what is allowed, you create a new edge and that is what they will go after next. That, and I hate cultural imperialist bullshit like this where some giant American mega corp forces their shit on Japan.
I can't really disagree with that either. I just like to bring up certain facts, even if the response is predictable
yeah, no shit it's for pedos, but more importantly, why do you care about a drawing? it's not a person.
if pedos fap to lolis instead of molesting real children, that's a win in my book.
This is the most critical part from my perspective. The subject matter here doesn't actually matter, whether you hate it or enjoy it. What people need to understand is criminalizing a drawing is criminalizing something artificial. It's opening the door to thought crime, and actual government regulation of ideas.
If you care about freedom of speech, you need to support allowing people to draw whatever they want. It doesn't need to be looked upon favorably by society, nor does it need to be allowed on all platforms. But it cannot be criminalized, because it will lead to subjective government regulation of media.
Artificially generated CP (which is going to become common, you can't stop it) will sadly make it harder for CP enforcement groups to identify real victims of crime. CP rings will distribute gigs of the fake stuff mixed in with some real pictures. If the law doesn't make ALL photorealistic depictions illegal, that won't be enough to take the groups down unless you can prove which are real. (though some criminals will be stupid enough to brag about having the real shit because they get off on that)
What if they just criminalized the distribution? You could make the same argument about drugs. You shouldn't be able to criminalize growing a plant - but you can restrict the commercial use of that plant's products.
I think we actually do need to look more closely at the specific content in question here before making broad judgements. The guy at the top who seems ok with it claims "loli is for pedos"? Really? So loli unambiguously only means "Hardcore depictions of sex with young characters"? Because critics like to apply that label to any manga or anime with young girls in it. (I guess all of us are talking about the former but you never know.)
Japan doesn't have freedom of speech by the way. Their constitution protects a general idea of "freedom of thought", but practically that isn't applied to entertainment. All theoretical though. I don't care what Japan does. They shouldn't do something because enlightened westerners demand it.
I don't think that's the "more important" part. Posts like this just appear from time to time and loli is disgusting.
There's nothing to prove that pedos satiate their urges with loli porn. It may very well be the case, who knows, but the alternative is possible, that the legal market helps to expand the illegal market. This is what happened with legalized prostitution in Europe as the appetite of johns exceeded the supply.
when internet porn exploded, the moral panickers screeched that sexual crimes would skyrocket as society was flooded with porn.
the opposite happened.
the meteoric rise of free porn coincided with the sharpest decline in sexual crimes in recorded history.
Yeah the thing is though, that also coincided with a meteoric rise in hookup sex and sex with children is illegal even if they "consent"
Yeah people who like their two minutes hate on easy targets are often taking off the heat from their even worse depravity. Normal people just try to forget it exists, although that is sometimes difficult.
You're comparing hentai to manga, which is an odd thing to do.
The leftist alarmists also got in a tizzy over Spy x Family having the daughter blush when picked up. They said it was clearly loli sexualizing content.
I think they were just mad that a story about a male-female happy and functional paired family that is working against an authoritarian East-German nation became so popular. But their choice of attack was "it literally has a child somewhere in its content, therefore, loli. Therefore, ban."
So "comparing hentai to manga" is a troublesome statement, since the opposition does it a LOT, at least in terms of terminologies, in order to poison the well.
I am?
So is videogames. When I play TF2, I can almost guarantee that I'll be playing with someone with a name that references being trans. Not to mention, pedo-central, Discord, started as a videogame chat app.
Of course both of these hobbies pale in comparison to the grooming happening in schools and on social media. I don't think that it's fair to go around blaming hobbies, especially when transgender characters are virtually absent from anime and manga, outside of porn.
Yes, online multiplayer and Discord are both breeding grounds for trans pests. Any activity that could lead to terminal online disorder generally is. I think you know that Discord is way worse than TF2 though.