True the funny thing was there was a slight chance when that president rejected the EU but ever since it's just been slow rolling to the current situation.
Deposing a democratically elected leader through mass revolution never works out when you already had peaceful solutions available.
Thia "democratically elected leader" has 0.0% support in Ukraine. This is why Russia's not doing anything with him, and never tried to do anything with him whatsoever, because even all the seps hate him too. He's universally hated by everyone there, including his own former supporters, just everybody with no exceptions. If they brought him back, their own puppets in the People's Republics would be furious and would be demanding to let them publicly execute him for how he's betrayed and abandoned them when he secretly fled with stolen money in the dead of night without stopping on the way to Moscow. They would make a festival out of his execution.
While all the 4 other presidents in Ukraine's history (including Kuchma who had once chosen Yanuk as his successor) stand united firmly against Russia. Literally with guns in their hands, even if symbolically.
They were. The same people ethnically, in the same location, speaking roughly same languagele, and the today's state claims this legacy (and even a plenty of troops get their Viking tattoos and worship Odin).
Which is unlike Königsberg, where the Prussian Germanized population entirely replaced by the Russians (Soviets) who have never been there before 1945.
If 'roughly the same language' counts, then it's as close to Russian as it is to modern Ukrainian - seeing as these languages had not even diverged from Old Church Slavonic at the time.
And the modern state claiming this legacy says not that much. Obviously, they'd grasp at any fig-leaf. Considering the many monuments built to Nazi collaborators and war criminals, even that.
Isn't settling your own people in conquered land against international law? I guess the allies cared as much about that as they did about the Katyn massacre.
And as for the Katyń, the Soviets wanted Germans to be prosecuted for it at Nuremberg.
The Allies told them to fuck off,
That's very noble of them. As noble as telling the Polish government in exile to drop it, and then to accept communist subversion.
(Obviously, I know they didn't have much of a choice in times of war. I'm just pointing this out because people pretend that the West is so noble, which obviously it is not. It's Realpolitik just like that of the Nazis and the USSR.)
but the Soviets hanged over 20 German officers for it anyway.
They were very merciful, hanging 49,979 fewer than FDR agreed to.
Btw the guards at Nuremberg were Baltic ex-SS who have defected to the Allies. They served in the American MP.
Those Balts man. First be over-represented among communists, help establish communism in Russia, then collaborate with the Germans against the Russians, and then defect from the Germans.
The Soviets also did it with the occupied Japanese isles too (100% ethnically cleansed and colonized, to this day, and btw WWII officially never ended between Japan and Moscow).
I really don't see Ukraine existing as a fully sovereign country anymore
It hasn't been a sovereign country since February 2014. It's a puppet of the Western imperialists, who like Adam Schiff said during Trump's impeachment "send weapons to Ukraine so we fight Russia over there and we don't have to fight it over here".
Why can't you just listen to the Russians, so openly telling you they're fighting against "nationalists" (their term) to restore an empire?
I'm listening to the Americans. Is that allowed?
What country would tolerate freakazoids like Lindsey Graham going to their neighbors, sending weapons and saying that 2017 will be 'the year of offense"? Or calling for Putin's assassination as he did?
I'm not against empires. European imperialism was quite beneficial for the1 subject peoples. I'm against American imperialism. If they want to re-establish their Empire, then good for them - it'll probably be good for the Ukrainian people.
Why don't you listen to Russians? About the naked imperialism (the "Peter the Great" again, "Third Rome", all that), about crushing the evil of "nationalism", all what they tell you and you close your eyes and ears and go LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU COMRADES WEST BAD DOWN TO IMPERIALISM.
I don't know whatever you mean by "2017", they year when nothing happened even more than in 2016.
About the naked imperialism (the "Peter the Great" again, "Third Rome", all that),
You say Third Rome and Peter the Great as if it's a bad thing. Living in a country ruled by castrated losers subservient to Europe and the Americans, I quite like that.
all what they tell you and you close your eyes and go LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU COMRADES WEST BAD DOWN TO IMPERIALISM.
I'm not against imperialism. I'm against American imperialism, because it crushes local cultures and provokes wars (like this one).
I don't know whatever you mean by "2017", they year when nothing happened even more than in 2016.
It's what the two warmongers Lindsey Graham and John McCain said while visiting Ukrainian armed forces terrorizing the Donbas.
And if you're such an imperialist (you sure should note this more often whenever you cry about "empire" and "imperialism", as to avoid a confusion like this mine where I've taken you seriously, my bad), but only hate the West, and nationalism, why won't you go for a long vacation to Russia, that has so much soul, where people dress in green? Or go back to Arabia? What holds you back? See ya. Bye. Godspeed.
And if you're such an imperialist (you sure should note this more often whenever you cry about "empire" and "imperialism", as to avoid a confusion),
Old imperialism brought civilization to benighted areas. American imperialism brings rainbow flags and utter degradation. Yes, I do think bad things are worse than good things.
but only hate the West
I love the West. I hate the corrupt snakes who are ruling it.
and nationalism
And I also love nationalism, applicable to countries that are actually real.
Or go back to Arabia?
lol, you think I am from the Arabian peninsula?
It's the height of irony that these same parasitic globalist imperialists screw over your country by denying it Covid aid relief, and then you tell me to go to Arabia for opposing them. What's the logic in that?
What do you mean by "Ukrainian armed forces terrorizing the Donbas"? Sniping vacationing Russian soldiers in their trenches and dropping mortars on their supply trucks and FOBs?
It's objectively true that European empires were very good for the subject populations. Even the empire of Russia, the most backward European country.
What do you mean by "Ukrainian armed forces terrorizing the Donbas"? Sniping vacationing Russian soldiers in their trenches and dropping mortars on their supply trucks and FOBs?
Bombing Donetsk with cluster munitions, among other things.
If they wouldn't get conscripted for "people's militias" (including the elderly) and sent to fight their friends and families, after going through the filtration camps.
It's just a lie. They don't even have capital punishment at all, only the enemy have it.
Anyone can easily check this out, so I don't know why Imp insists on lying really stupidly even after I told him it's not true. He could easily check it too, but no. Unless he did, and now is just being weird, I don't know.
They don't even have capital punishment at all, only the enemy have it.
You mean the People's Republics, right? Because Russia also has abolished the death penalty, thank you Western organizations.
Anyone can easily check this out, so I don't know why Imp insists on lying really stupidly even after I told him it's not true.
This the first time you encountered him or something?
He'll convince himself of something - anything - and then be hell-bent on pushing it, no matter how much evidence against it emerges.
When a woman shot a black guy (of whom he claimed that she was looking for an opportunity to kill a man), he first said that her name would not be released, and that her picture would not be posted. When proven false, he said that she would never be indicted. When she was indicted, he'd say that the prosecution would look for a quiet way to drop the charges. When that didn't happen, he said she'd get only probation. When she got 2 years in prison, he declared victory because it was 2 years + probation.
Like him or dislike him, at least he is incredibly entertaining.
I'm pretty sure they haven't actually killed their bargaining chips yet. However, Ukraine while not having the death penalty, did shoot Russian POWs in the knee.
My bad, it was Paul Urey before they even sentenced him.
Maybe you should see how they look like when they publicly parade them around.
There was never a conflict when the Russians or Soviets didn't routinely starve and torture (and mass murder) POWs. Just never. And for the longest time the Soviets didn't even recognise the very concept of a POW, refusing to sign any international convention, and in Chechnya they gave it to 0 prisoners, and right now it's "not a war" too. It's just a "special military operation", and the enemies are only boyeviki just like in Chechnya (besides "nationalists"), they're not soldaty (or police officers of whatever).
My bad, it was Paul Urey before they even sentenced him.
An aid worker according to reports, but I trust "news" organizations as far as I can throw them.
If they starved him, they're even dumber than they look. Western citizens are very valuable as a means of blackmail and humiliation of the West. It is rank stupidity to torture or starve them.
Maybe you should see how they look like when they publicly parade them around.
War takes a toll. It's not as if Russian POWs look like that "General Pavel" the Western media hoaxed about.
And for the longest time the Soviets didn't even recognise the very concept of a POW, refusing to sign any international convention, and in Chechnya they gave it to 0 prisoners
Chechens were (actual) insurrectionists. I'm pretty sure those are not considered POWs.
It's just a "special military operation",
You think they actually take their words seriously? Either something is going on, or it is rank incompetence to e.g. not bomb Ukrainian government buildings.
I remember all the people on reddit claiming to be Ukrainian when this started. Cheering on everything Zelensky did to strip their freedoms away and only giving them state run news. "We got to do this. Its war. We dont want Russian news to poison us."
Now look at them. They are never getting shit back
Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists - Ukrainian nationalist political and military organization founded in 1929 in Vienna. The OUN was guided by the ideology of Ukrainian nationalism, striving to build on the lands it considered to be Ukrainian, an independent Ukraine - a state with a system similar to fascism.
Interesting.
Yeah yeah, shut the fuck up. It was the Polish imperialism that fucked over our relations. Including the most widespread slavery (by the Polonized nobles, with Jewish help, and with absolutely retarded attempts to turn the Cossacks into more serfs too) and literal colonialism.
You bring up all sorts of weird stuff, when I mean imperialism and colonialism in countries like India, not your border skirmishes.
Whether this is true or not, I really don't see Ukraine existing as a fully sovereign country anymore
Maybe in name only as a puppet state but the only question is who's pulling the strings.
Those billions in aid from other nations weren't given out of charity.
Sorry, but it never was, Ukraine has been a puppet state it’s entire history and a money launderer for powerful countries.
True the funny thing was there was a slight chance when that president rejected the EU but ever since it's just been slow rolling to the current situation.
Deposing a democratically elected leader through mass revolution never works out when you already had peaceful solutions available.
Thia "democratically elected leader" has 0.0% support in Ukraine. This is why Russia's not doing anything with him, and never tried to do anything with him whatsoever, because even all the seps hate him too. He's universally hated by everyone there, including his own former supporters, just everybody with no exceptions. If they brought him back, their own puppets in the People's Republics would be furious and would be demanding to let them publicly execute him for how he's betrayed and abandoned them when he secretly fled with stolen money in the dead of night without stopping on the way to Moscow. They would make a festival out of his execution.
While all the 4 other presidents in Ukraine's history (including Kuchma who had once chosen Yanuk as his successor) stand united firmly against Russia. Literally with guns in their hands, even if symbolically.
The Rus before the Mongols and the Lithuanian domination, really? Whose?
The Rus were not Ukrainian, any more than the original Prussians were Germanic peoples.
They were. The same people ethnically, in the same location, speaking roughly same languagele, and the today's state claims this legacy (and even a plenty of troops get their Viking tattoos and worship Odin).
Which is unlike Königsberg, where the Prussian Germanized population entirely replaced by the Russians (Soviets) who have never been there before 1945.
If 'roughly the same language' counts, then it's as close to Russian as it is to modern Ukrainian - seeing as these languages had not even diverged from Old Church Slavonic at the time.
And the modern state claiming this legacy says not that much. Obviously, they'd grasp at any fig-leaf. Considering the many monuments built to Nazi collaborators and war criminals, even that.
Isn't settling your own people in conquered land against international law? I guess the allies cared as much about that as they did about the Katyn massacre.
And as for the Katyń, the Soviets wanted Germans to be prosecuted for it at Nuremberg.
The Allies told them to fuck off, but the Soviets hanged over 20 German officers for it anyway.
Btw the guards at Nuremberg were Baltic ex-SS who have defected to the Allies. They served in the American MP.
That's very noble of them. As noble as telling the Polish government in exile to drop it, and then to accept communist subversion.
(Obviously, I know they didn't have much of a choice in times of war. I'm just pointing this out because people pretend that the West is so noble, which obviously it is not. It's Realpolitik just like that of the Nazis and the USSR.)
They were very merciful, hanging 49,979 fewer than FDR agreed to.
Those Balts man. First be over-represented among communists, help establish communism in Russia, then collaborate with the Germans against the Russians, and then defect from the Germans.
The Soviets also did it with the occupied Japanese isles too (100% ethnically cleansed and colonized, to this day, and btw WWII officially never ended between Japan and Moscow).
It hasn't been a sovereign country since February 2014. It's a puppet of the Western imperialists, who like Adam Schiff said during Trump's impeachment "send weapons to Ukraine so we fight Russia over there and we don't have to fight it over here".
Man, you're so retarded sometimes.
Why can't you just listen to the Russians, so openly telling you they're fighting against "nationalists" (their term) to restore an empire?
Why can't you believe them?
Only sometimes? I'll take the compliment.
I'm listening to the Americans. Is that allowed?
What country would tolerate freakazoids like Lindsey Graham going to their neighbors, sending weapons and saying that 2017 will be 'the year of offense"? Or calling for Putin's assassination as he did?
I'm not against empires. European imperialism was quite beneficial for the1 subject peoples. I'm against American imperialism. If they want to re-establish their Empire, then good for them - it'll probably be good for the Ukrainian people.
Yeah, only sometimes.
Why don't you listen to Russians? About the naked imperialism (the "Peter the Great" again, "Third Rome", all that), about crushing the evil of "nationalism", all what they tell you and you close your eyes and ears and go LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU COMRADES WEST BAD DOWN TO IMPERIALISM.
I don't know whatever you mean by "2017", they year when nothing happened even more than in 2016.
You say Third Rome and Peter the Great as if it's a bad thing. Living in a country ruled by castrated losers subservient to Europe and the Americans, I quite like that.
I'm not against imperialism. I'm against American imperialism, because it crushes local cultures and provokes wars (like this one).
It's what the two warmongers Lindsey Graham and John McCain said while visiting Ukrainian armed forces terrorizing the Donbas.
I'm only for American imperialism if we're taking shit permanently. I'm tired of the half assed imperialism we have
And if you're such an imperialist (you sure should note this more often whenever you cry about "empire" and "imperialism", as to avoid a confusion like this mine where I've taken you seriously, my bad), but only hate the West, and nationalism, why won't you go for a long vacation to Russia, that has so much soul, where people dress in green? Or go back to Arabia? What holds you back? See ya. Bye. Godspeed.
Old imperialism brought civilization to benighted areas. American imperialism brings rainbow flags and utter degradation. Yes, I do think bad things are worse than good things.
I love the West. I hate the corrupt snakes who are ruling it.
And I also love nationalism, applicable to countries that are actually real.
lol, you think I am from the Arabian peninsula?
It's the height of irony that these same parasitic globalist imperialists screw over your country by denying it Covid aid relief, and then you tell me to go to Arabia for opposing them. What's the logic in that?
So empire good now? Ha. Hilarious.
What do you mean by "Ukrainian armed forces terrorizing the Donbas"? Sniping vacationing Russian soldiers in their trenches and dropping mortars on their supply trucks and FOBs?
It's objectively true that European empires were very good for the subject populations. Even the empire of Russia, the most backward European country.
Bombing Donetsk with cluster munitions, among other things.
Ukrainian men can always leave Ukraine through the Russian border.
Damn...I.... uh... ......... damn....... I mean he's got a point there... jus sayin
If they wouldn't get conscripted for "people's militias" (including the elderly) and sent to fight their friends and families, after going through the filtration camps.
Anyway, the stupid story is not true.
Not quite the same as chaining Privates to their machine guns or shooting deserters in the back, but it's in the same spirit.
Well, that ought to convince citizens of the righteousness of their sacrifice.
It's just a lie. They don't even have capital punishment at all, only the enemy have it.
Anyone can easily check this out, so I don't know why Imp insists on lying really stupidly even after I told him it's not true. He could easily check it too, but no. Unless he did, and now is just being weird, I don't know.
You mean the People's Republics, right? Because Russia also has abolished the death penalty, thank you Western organizations.
This the first time you encountered him or something?
He'll convince himself of something - anything - and then be hell-bent on pushing it, no matter how much evidence against it emerges.
When a woman shot a black guy (of whom he claimed that she was looking for an opportunity to kill a man), he first said that her name would not be released, and that her picture would not be posted. When proven false, he said that she would never be indicted. When she was indicted, he'd say that the prosecution would look for a quiet way to drop the charges. When that didn't happen, he said she'd get only probation. When she got 2 years in prison, he declared victory because it was 2 years + probation.
Like him or dislike him, at least he is incredibly entertaining.
The moratorium does not mean "abolished", and I very clearly wrote how they're lifting it now.
Or at least so says Medvedev, whom this forum for some reason called a "Russian moderate" once (https://kotakuinaction2.win/p/15IEXz4p5Z/even-the-russian-moderates-hate-/c/).
His redemption arc was crazy.
He's never changed, only saying what he's told. He has no personality, no character, no autonomy.
Do you really need me to explain like to a retard how " a deputy proposed" does not mean "passed a law"?
Okay, so I really need to handle this like talking to a retard.
I'll remember it for our future conversations.
https://en.topwar.ru/196737-oficery-vsu-ne-smogut-rasstrelivat-soldat-skandalnyj-zakonoproekt-otozvan-iz-verhovnoj-rady.html
Read your own article. Introducing a bill is not the same thing as passing it.
It's been instantly withdrawn by her own party.
It's a lie.
Ukraine has no death penalty for absolutely anything, in peacetime and in wartime. It's been abolished in 2000-2001, after the last execution in 1997.
Only the People's Republics have it, and do condemn and execute people. Including their own fighters: https://lenta.ru/news/2018/07/19/dnr/
And they do it as war crimes: https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/06/1120102
Russia has death penalty, but has a moratorium (or had because just after the invasion began Medvedev announced they're going to end the moratorium: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/10/russia-quits-europes-rule-of-law-body-sparking-questions-over-death-penalty-a76854).
Belarus has death penalty too (active).
I'm pretty sure they haven't actually killed their bargaining chips yet. However, Ukraine while not having the death penalty, did shoot Russian POWs in the knee.
Freedom! Democracy! Something something!
2 of these 3 guys are already dead.
They starve and torture the prisoners to death in their camps.
Just tried to confirm and couldn't find anything saying that.
I guess they should shoot them in the knee rather than 'starving' them? (For which I have seen no evidence, unlike the knee-shooting.)
My bad, it was Paul Urey before they even sentenced him.
Maybe you should see how they look like when they publicly parade them around.
There was never a conflict when the Russians or Soviets didn't routinely starve and torture (and mass murder) POWs. Just never. And for the longest time the Soviets didn't even recognise the very concept of a POW, refusing to sign any international convention, and in Chechnya they gave it to 0 prisoners, and right now it's "not a war" too. It's just a "special military operation", and the enemies are only boyeviki just like in Chechnya (besides "nationalists"), they're not soldaty (or police officers of whatever).
An aid worker according to reports, but I trust "news" organizations as far as I can throw them.
If they starved him, they're even dumber than they look. Western citizens are very valuable as a means of blackmail and humiliation of the West. It is rank stupidity to torture or starve them.
War takes a toll. It's not as if Russian POWs look like that "General Pavel" the Western media hoaxed about.
Chechens were (actual) insurrectionists. I'm pretty sure those are not considered POWs.
You think they actually take their words seriously? Either something is going on, or it is rank incompetence to e.g. not bomb Ukrainian government buildings.
Also someone's been downvoting us both, that's hilarious.
I have one dedicated fan. Can't imagine you don't have any, considering your stances which this board finds to be controversial.
I remember all the people on reddit claiming to be Ukrainian when this started. Cheering on everything Zelensky did to strip their freedoms away and only giving them state run news. "We got to do this. Its war. We dont want Russian news to poison us."
Now look at them. They are never getting shit back
If the war were so severe as to require this, there wouldn't be time, logistics, nor locations in which to do so.
sausage linguini you corrupt shitheads
Interesting.
You bring up all sorts of weird stuff, when I mean imperialism and colonialism in countries like India, not your border skirmishes.