Something that’s has irked me for some time now is how many people latched onto the Atheist movement as an edgy teen but now look back on it in reverence and not shame. This seems to be a common theme in academia and is prevalent even in communities like this one. The lamentation of the “golden-age” of atheism is peak hubris. Dawkins, Hitchens, and crew were deconstructionists of the critical theory variety. Their lives were consumed by the need to disprove God and religion. However these were the shortsighted desires of pseudo-intellectuals, they accomplished nothing productive, and if anything, opened the door for the screaming children that replaced them. I don’t think Dawkins, in his wildest dreams, ever saw his fall come from his own hubris. The intellectual argument over dismantling religion somehow disproving the existence of a god is what fueled the SJWS and their own brand of hubris in the early 2000’s. BTW Dawkins, this is what happens when you remove the “tumor” of religion, you hack. As you see today, Dawkins was swallowed by the stupidity he helped bring about, the Maximilien Robespierre of the modern era, begging for trannies to not cut off his head.
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Atheism has always been cringe. Along with gay rights it’s always just been another weapon for globohomo to batter our doors down. What good did any of those faggots do us in the end? They got the Ten Commandments taken off a few government buildings, they got a few nativity scenes taken down from public property. Great, that was really worth all of the fucking rape-gangs and child drag queens.
In the end Aethism was only allowed to gun any support in the public conscious because it aligned with the faggy one-people-one-race bullshit of the left. Once the ugly dune-coon related questions started popping up they dropped it like a burning potato.
I don't usually talk about this kind of thing - religion is a private thing, generally - but which type of atheism?
The "muh science"-type atheism that seems to have lead directly to this odd worship not of the scientific method (which would also be wrong, it's a tool, not holy scripture) but as science as a shibboleth of My Side and of scientists as the priests of this new religion is as utterly repellent to me as any preacher quoting scripture to justify some act of rank immorality.
The point about being an atheist, at least as I understand it, is to make your own decisions not to be shackled to someone else's irrationalities and biases. All the Internet Atheism crown achieved when it morphed into the "I Fucking Love Science" crowd, apparently, is to change the letterhead on the fucking page.
Church of the flying spaghetti monster style cringe edgelord atheism
And Richard Dawkins "I am literally better than you" atheist elitism
Neither grasp the concept of theology as a freedom from the indirect tyranny of man
Wash your mouth, heathen. I'll have you know I am officially ordained priest, and have my holy colander.
Seriously, it's funny how people engage in some amazing doublethink where it comes to religion: sure, the invisible godlike mass of spaghetti making decisions about the universe and guiding your life is absurd,
but
the invisible bronze-age man who talks using some tablets and/or a burning bush, whose book is forty percent is forty percent superstition, forty percent a sociological guide to a specific type of society, and twenty percent distorted historical record (and zero percent useful information, like germ theory or clean energy) guiding your life and making decisions about the universe makes perfect goddamn sense, don't you question it.
How do you not see this as nothing more then a recolored "true communism has never been attempted"?
Theology has zero basis in physical reality, except what humans do with it, and all people ever do with any sort of power, secular or ecclesiastic, is milk it for personal gain. Theology is nothing more then another instrument of governance, just another form of that "tyranny of man".
The first one, I guess. I don’t really care that much about whether someone believes in God or not but pop culture has pretty much made the Niel Degrasse Tyson/Richard and Mortimer I Fucking Love Science shit into the default position most bugmen normies take now.
Oh yeah, Christopher Hitches was well known for his sterling defense of Islam, which promotes those rape gangs. Good point. I hadn't thought about it because that's wrong.
I love how you're arguing that Atheism did nothing, but also is solely responsible for the rise of Leftism. It's one or the other. Either Atheism did relatively little to the institutions of power, and thus can't have been the explanation for the rise of Leftism into those institutions (this is true); or Atheism had a huge impact on the institutions of power and their seizure by Leftism caused the institutions to be seized by Leftism (utter fiction). It can not be that Atheism had almost no impact on the institutions of power, which allowed Leftism to seize the institutions of power.
I never said Athiests were solely responsible for the rise of leftism, merely that they were one of many tools leftists used to promote their worldview in popular culture.
And sure, Hitchins was one of the few Athiests who actually put his money where his mouth was when it came to Islam, great. It doesn’t change the fact that the new Athiests movement ushered in a lot of gay shit, and that Athiests have been less than useless at combating the rising tide of Muslim encroachment on the west.
Again, the Atheist movement didn't usher in basically anything because it was taken over by Leftists. Leftist had been pushing against western civilization for decades before anyone knew who Richard Dawkins was outside of a Biology Lab.
Apparently the Muslims disagree because they keep shooting us when we say it's okay to draw pictures of Muhammad.
Again. Your problem is Leftism. Not atheism.
But hasn’t popular Athiesm always been pretty anti-conservative?I mean I don’t really know much about Dawkins’ personal politics, I know he’s at least somewhat admitted there’s a link between race and iq, but hasn’t he always been pretty liberal? Athiesm and academia have been pretty closely linked for a while now so if there were ever a time it was co-opted it would have to have been a long time ago.
And for how long has the moral authoritarian and evangelical movements been tied directly to the Conservative movement?
I've never heard Richard Dawkins rail about Ronald Reagan, Barry Goldwater, or William F Buckley in regards to Atheism. However, when the Evangelical movement was rearing it's ugly head into politics, it was basically with a tacit acceptance of Reagan, and then Bush onwards. Remember that George Bush Sr, once railed against The Simpsons for spreading poor family values to children and wanted it taken off the air back in 1990's. The Republicans establishment, which pushed Rockefeller and Nixon (who was effectively the most Leftist Republican president since TR, with none of the genuine leadership capabilities), co-opted Regan, and let the Evangelicals run absolutely amok in a party that was supposed to be about conserving American liberties.
For the entirety of the 90's and 2000's, Conservatism and Evangelism were bound together at the hip. Even if other Conservative factions didn't like it, they were all in the same boat, and it was the Evangelicals boat. If you opposed Evangelism, you opposed Conservativism, even though the tie between the two is actually tenuous at best.
Atheism wasn't co-opted by radical Leftists, particularly the 1970's variety, for most of this time period. Academia itself is not atheist by it's nature, though the sciences leaned secular since the mid 20th century. It is only, again, in the past 50 years that they have become bias to the left, and only in the past 20 that they have become damn near Communist.
Part of the reason Atheists mocked Feminsits and SJWs back in the 2014's was to point out that Science and the real world weren't going to tolerate this absolute nonsense. However, because the ethical corporate globalist elite realized it's potential, all of Academia and Science is being forced to.
If you're looking for the strongest and oldest centers of Leftist subversion in America, it's:
I think the issue (and you allude to this) is that for most Atheists (of the fedora variety) being an atheist was just a performative means of being against the established Christian tradition and had no actual epistemological basis for their beliefs or lack of belief. So when intersectional wokeism presented itself as not only having a theory and a praxis, but also offered itself to its adherents as a non-theistic religion, they flocked to it because it filled the void where Christianity used to be. And that's because they were never irreligious, but rather specifically anti-Christian.
Absolutely.
The only addition to that is that I think some were genuinely anti-religious as Islam was never exactly a safe alternative to Christianity, and a lot of Atheists knew that.
But by the time Atheism+ was in control, they were culled into not bringing it up.
Sorry, I still don't wanna fuckin' die.
Hey Giz,
I think Suffer is falling for one of the Left's favourite tricks - appropriating an entire section of society to themselves, so that they and they alone can represent them and further their emancipation - which strangely always involves the 500th attempt to build a communist utopia from the corpses of everybody.
That's because it's typical collectivist strategy to do that.
When parents use religion to make their children's lives miserable, you don't get to be surprised to see them grow up and want to destroy religion.
And like a person who's just snapped and beat up a bully, they won't give a damn about the consequences.
Yes I’m sure it was awful growing up Christian in a first-world white country. Gasp! My parents made me get up early on Sunday! My School made me say the pledge of Allegiance! My heart bleeds.
Not that I’m really wanting to side with the Christian Right on this too much either. If they’d cared more about actually creating a working society and preventing the destruction of the family than they did about banning DOOM and heavy metal music we might not be in this mess.
I'm glad you grew up with parents who weren't retarded. Bad news: you have absolutely no idea how much actual damage people using God as a crutch do, and how they and everyone around them use God to enable abuse. Normally to feed their own Narcissistic tendencies, or to rationalize physical, sexual, or psychological abuse. This kind of thing genuinely happened to people.
And that's actually the fucking problem. You can stand there and say "That's not what a good Christian would do", and that's great, but it's your flock and it's your responsibility to stop that from happening in your community; and you didn't do shit.
When people get abused like that, they ascribe the collectivism they were abused by to that abuse, whether you like it or not. Unfortunately, that also means that their positions are purely reactionary. They can be led from one ideological zealotry to another. I've been complaining about this for... 8 years or so? Atheists that never go through the "Deconversion" process of actually losing all of their magical thinking and spiritual beliefs; can end up just adopting other systems that require magical thinking. Hence why the Atheism+ crowd adopted Marxism; and why they will eventually adopt Liberation Theology.
The biggest problem that Atheism had, but never really understood, is that most atheists have never gone through a deconversion process. They've never actually spent years actually introspectively analyzing their own religious, spiritual, or philosophical ideas; to get to the point where they finally conclude that God does not exist. Instead they just react against "Crockoduck", "You can't explain the tides", and "banana-hand = God".
And to go on with your other point: yes that was the Zenith of Christian Philosophy in the 1990's and 2000's which is exactly why Jordan Peterson is your best bet at the moment; and why when he's talking to professors of religious universities; he looks like he's talking to children; or just to himself.
The Evangelical Movement has pulled all the same stunts on christians as BLM Corporate has on blacks; even down to stealing the donations and buying mansions. That includes the rampant fraud committed by the televangelists and the Megachurch crowd. Apparently Christianity has all but entirely lost the concept of piety and humbleness. The truth is, they were the culture warrior grifters of their day, and they had no desire to fight Communism; no desire to uplift Christianity; and all the desire to make a few bucks on the side.
I don’t disagree with a lot of what you just said. I’m sure there are plenty of shitty parents that use god as a justification for their abuse, just as I’ve seen plenty of shitty parents who didn’t need any such excuse, my point isn’t really a full-throated defense of Christiandom, I think there’s a lot of faggotry involved with the Church that is part of the reason we’re where we are today.
My point was more that the popular atheist movement has been little more than a tool to introduce globohomo faggotry into our society, in the same vein as the media and academia. I’m not saying it’s the only tool or that if you’re an atheist you’re automatically a commie faggot, or that being a Christian automatically makes you immune to such faggotry,I am saying that I fail to see a single benefit that the popular atheist movement has had in the west, and like the OP I think that it’s actually been a detriment as far as back-dooring this bugman, trust the science movement.
The Atheist movement's best accomplishment was lasting long enough to make people skeptical of the Social Justice movement; otherwise we'd look a lot more like Canada right now. It's fighting off of moral authoritarianism inoculated people to moral authoritarianism from the Left, but not all of them.
Athiesm+ murdered the whole movement because that is what it's objective was: balkanize the movement, demand acquiescence to Leftism, wear the movement as a skin suit. All of the Leftist movements are still manipulated by the Fabian Socialist elite, and that's not Atheism could have ever done anything about.
The IFLS (I Fucking Love Science) crowd has long been understood to be an embarrassment to anything related to actual science, as it's been clear that "Science Communicators" have utterly failed and have cultivated something far worse than an scientifically literate population. Leftists, like shark smelling blood in the water, found a position of concentrated power and attacked it, as is their natural inclination. Atheism did not try to make that, the Scientific Community did not try to make that, the whole thing has been bastardized into Communist Pseudo-intellectualism. Because, again, the Left seeks any place of concentrated power.
Climate Change is probably the optimal example of the divide. The Scientists themselves are always driven bonkers why no one seems to understand their work, but there's a group of people screaming at Watermelons claiming that they know about Climate Science as a Watermelon plot. I've literally taken an Environmental Science course where we spent time actually debunking Al Gore's "Inconvenient Truth" in class. Environmental Science. On the opposite end, you have the right-wing which hasn't ever seen any of the actual data, they've been just fighting the Watermelons.
The right thinks Watermelons are the Scientific Community. The Scientific Community are being told that the right wing are a literal strawmen by Watermelons.
Science: "There will be a 6" sea level raise in 100 years. This will cause significant ecological disruption."
Watermelons: "YOU NAZIS ARE KILLING THE EARTH"
The Right: "You are literally just a bunch of Communists."
Watermelons: "I'M THE FUCKING SCIENCE"
The Right: "Then the Science is wrong!"
Watermelons: "DID YOU HEAR THAT! HE SAID THE SCIENCE IS WRONG BECAUSE YOU'RE A COMMUNIST!"
Science: "What? That's fucking absurd."
Watermelons: "YOU HEAR THAT! YOU'RE FUCKING ABSURD AND THE DATA PROVES IT NAZI!"
The Right: "If this is what Science is being used for, then it shouldn't have my tax money."
Watermelons: "YOU HEAR THAT? HE WANTS TO TAKE AWAY YOUR FUNDING BECAUSE HE HATES SCIENCE!"
Science: "What the fuck, we're trying to deal with serious problems!"
Watermelons: "HE CALLED YOU A LITTLE BITCH!"
I have an idea of what pursuing the alternative has cost our society, and civilization itself.
Even if you discount the evils of communism, which is an explicitly and avowedly atheist ideology that has killed a hundred and twenty million innocent people, you still have the death toll of abortion on the hands of atheism and the irreligious.
So when you say "no idea", yeah I have no idea. I also don't give two shits. I don't care if your daddy spanked you with a Bible, your angsty bullshit doesn't matter to me. Because your ideas are worse than any and everything you try to point to to justify it, and we have the last sixty years of leftist atrocities to show that.
All of your lives put together are not worth the damage you've done to civilization. Not by half. Only the Muslims are worse, and they at least have the distinction of never being part of civilization, so no matter how bad they are at least they aren't traitors.
Such an abjectly ignorant statement. No wonder you're making so little sense.
No thanks, I'm not a crackhead.
Neither do you. Difference is, your ideas observably destroy society. They are, at worst, just more Protestant heretics.
So your problem is with Leftism, not Atheism. Cool.
Atheism is not an ideological dogma. It literally can't be. It literally isn't well fleshed-out enough to even warrant being identified as an ideology or philosophy. The rejection of your particular God doesn't make abortion moral, and it doesn't make Communism ethical.
Or do you want me to blame every single death tacitly associated with Christianity, or even something as simply "family values" to the deaths of murderous regimes that may have at one point and time espoused them? I assume not.
Talk to someone who is one.
No, it just challenges the order of society when you use the excuse "do what I say because God said so".
If your society is built on "just do what the guy who says he knows what God wants says", then you didn't build a society worth surviving anyway.
Oh no! Not Protestantism!
Clearly Catholicism will save us from Leftists despite being the origin of Social Justice.
Or maybe you're going to explain how Islam will save us instead.
Or better yet, your version of Socialism that's totally not Socialism will totally work this time when you do it.
Good luck with that. Just don't involve me in that.
Bingo. In the 90's, christian boomers were committing actual emotional abuse on a massive scale, and nobody did jack shit.
Mmmmm no, you do not grasp the magnitude of the situation.
The behaviors I saw from some of those parents was genuine emotional (and in quite a few cases, physical) abuse. Like, you don't even know.
And it weren't the fukkin amish. It was the evangelicals.
So true. I saw friends get disowned for thinking they could come out to their parents about having questions re: their faith in Christianity, attempted suicides hushed up because their PeRfEcT good Christian missionary family couldn't have that sort of news ruining their reputation, I was censured for having doubts of my own, I could go on about this or that story as could many of others.
There's a lot of truth to the things that led many Atheism+ people away from the faith and it's really telling that—not Christians—but a freaking psychologist who isn't even Christian is the guy getting a lot of people back to the faith(myself included).
How is not believing in any gods cringe?
Or do you mean the communists? Before they went full commie they were just people that wanted attention but didn't know how to work towards anything that would give them attention, it was all about titles and dressing in a way that gave you attention.
I’m more talking about the fedora tippers who think they’re striking some blow for enlightenment and free-speech when they put the Bible in the fiction section but then they clam up when dune coins start raping children and running people over with trucks.
Stop blaming atheists for the policies of jews.
Same thing.
No.
It was christianity's fault for producing such people in the first place.
You have to have experienced growing up in a bible thumper family (or seen it happen to friends) to understand just how fucking obnoxious the evangelicals got in the back half of the 20th century.
It was their excesses that created people who were dead set on knocking their joyless, harping parents down a peg by destroying the institution they forced on their kids.
The edgy "i don't believe" phase was nothing new. What was new was how much the evangelical parents hectored their kids to the point where it was no longer a phase that people grew out of, and more of an all-consuming wrath that wanted to see the entire institution burned down for what it did to their childhoods.
You get Christopher Hitchens when Ned Flanders and Sheila Broflovski are ACCURATE stereotypes of religious parents.
This is true. Christians did a shit job of defending their ideology from secularists, to the point where we had to wait for Jordan Fucking Peterson to make any sort of secular defense of Christian principles and their role in creating Western culture.
And this isn't a problem exclusive to Christians either. To the extent they were the dominant culture there was no pressure put upon them to have good arguments for why their principles out be followed and preserved. Much like secular leftists today have no pressure on them to justify their principles.
If you were like me growing up in this world a bit skeptical of all the tradition and ritualism in the church and wondered what its relevance was to modern life, it was very hard to get a satisfactory answer.
Well, MY experience was rather atypical. I grew up ostensibly Quaker, but I was close enough to wishy-washy moderate protestants, batshit crazy evangelicals, and ACTUAL BUGGY RIDING AMISH to understand what all the worlds looked like.
See, for me, there was never any question about the tradition. John Brown drilled his men for the Harpers Ferry raid a couple miles from my house. The honor roll for my hometown's dead for the Civil War is longer than it is for the Great War. I always knew what faith was. Quakers follow Christ's example; if you want to fight for a righteous cause, you don't call yourself Quaker and you go into it knowing that you might not actually be righteous.
The "Bible-thumpers" were a group largely made of parents (most adults were parents back then) that saw the traditions that build a happy community and life for them and saw a subversive culture that was gunning to take that away. They did their best to enforce their culture but failed to safeguard against the anything goes attitude of the Boomers.
The lessons they tried to enforce through dictate are the lessons that Godless/fatherless men are "discovering" today (Clean your room, pull your weight, gatekeep your tribe or subversive elements will destroy it from the inside).
I'd say the problem of the "Bible-thumpers" is that they didn't go far enough in instilling those values. The message was right but their methodology wasn't prepared for what they were facing.
That’s adorable, your first sentence shows that you still have the edgy teen mentality. You know why evangelicals were so strict? Because it has always made more successful people. You know why Jewish and Asian cultures have outpaced “whites”? While our society became indulgent and cried about Ned Flanders, they emulated him. Crying about insufferable evangelicals is what the blacks and Irish did when they wanted to drink all day and be irresponsible, feckless vagrants. So congratulations on being regressive?
But these weren't successful people.
These were white, poor, evangelical nutters who were failures in life and took it out on their kids by making their lives as joyless and shitty as theirs turned out to be.
I do not think you are familiar with the archetype of person I am describing. From what I've seen it's a uniquely midwestern phenomena.
You have a point about the last part, removing religion creates disappointed underclassmen such as the Modern Left who have a victimhood complex and without a God to keep them content, they resort to political ideologies to fuel their desires. In short, politics is the new religion for the Left.
Religion provided a mechanism for enforcing (largely beneficial) cultural norms without resorting to the tyranny of the state.
Leftists want to enforce their own (antithetical) cultural norms, but they don't have religion to do so. Traditionally, they've turned to the state, but that arrangement has always collapsed in blood and fire.
America's constitutional republic isn't very conducive to state tyranny, but leftists have found an effective workaround: monopolistic "private" industry propped up by government policy and media manipulation.
Until it went too fucking far and started ruining childhoods.
"You can't play at their house, they watch the Simpsons."
-One of my friends parents in the mid 90's.
I will not mourn the death of evangelical christianity. It got everything it deserved.
Enjoy your Simpsons reruns and rape gangs. I hope it was worth it.
Maybe if you Christians had stopped being massive faggots on your own we wouldn’t have ended up in this mess.
"Maybe if you'd let me stay up late, I wouldn't have shit the bed, Dad."
Maybe if you faggots hadn’t been so busy working with Clinton to try and ban video games people would’ve been more focused on the subversion of subcultures into communist propaganda machines but you Christ fags didn’t you demanded censorship and oppression you are the sjws your just now the faggots losing to a different faction of faggots.
This is the least persuasive argument made, possibly ever. It's basically a tantrum.
You sound like Maude Flanders. I don't think anyone's childhood was ruined by not watching the Simpsons.
Don't miss the forest for the trees.
You are missing the point even though you said it yourself. Hardline Christianity recognized the attempts to subvert and degrade the family from very early on. Allowing media in your household that portrays fathers as dumb and lazy, church goers as hypocritical, and the "cool" characters as rebellious against the hierarchy is one of many steps in the process that got us here.
You've just chosen a line farther down the slippery slope and claim we could have stopped there and everything would have been OK. Like, maybe Gay Rainbow Dildo Monkey Story Hour is too far, but there's nothing wrong with a little bit of subversion of family values, right?
A mere century before you were born, children as young as 8 were helping their fathers hunt for food to survive. But you claim you're oppressed because your parents didn't let you watch your favorite cartoons.
Fucking pathetic. You don't deserve to live. I mean it.
Go back, re-read what I said, and then get your phrasing right.
MY place was where people came to get away from their goddamn parents because my parents were live and let live quakers who didn't give a flip what we did as long as at the end of the day we all had two eyes, ten fingers and ten toes.
You had bad parents. They failed you. Something that is abjectly clear just from what you've been writing here.
AGAIN, GO BACK AND READ WHAT I SAID.
I had perfectly fine parents who didn't give a fuck.
A third of my class had evangelical Adolfs for parents.
I despise evangelical christians. Because all the evangelical parents I've met in Iowa turned out to be hypocritcal, emotionally abusive bastards, who use their flawed concept of christ as a beat stick to make their kids miserable. For no other reason than because they think it's right. Not because it worked for them (it didn't).
This is an oxymoron.
Of course you do, because each and every atheist at heart is a spiteful, petulant child.
It wasn't the atheists that did that.
Christianity shot itself in the foot many times before the atheists came along to knock it down on its dumb ass.
On a slight tangent: Is it just me, or is the "deep web" becoming more and more partial towards Christianity within the last decade?
I've been following KIA and the chans, and overtime I see people turn from liberalism and more toward tradition. Maybe it's because the "traitors/sellouts" leave, and the ones that remain have been continually refined.
It's not just you... And it's probably just a simple Left-Right distinction. Everyone with a brain can see the Atheism debate is completely and utterly irrelevant by now, and that anyone still pretending old white christian evangelicals rule the world is lying through their teeth. Instead, they've just figured out literally 100% of the Political Atheists are Left Wing, and also some of them are insane.
This isn't exactly correct, it is certainly the majority but something like 14% of Atheist voters are Conservative (That number is rising.)
I'm one of those, there's a perfect example of how some of us older Atheists just got fed up with a lot of the arbitrary bible thump and shit that just made no sense in the 80's and 90's by pretty much any sect of the bible, forced onto us by our parents at the time.
Atheism really got fucking stolen by these faggots who clung to it and "Re-invented" something that isn't a belief system to begin with, using it as a "Fuck you" to their conservative fathers while they were gagging on cock. I really think that's why it's so heavily leftist infested now-a-days.
You'd have to be fucking braindead though to be an Atheist over being an American. It's clear as fucking day to me that Christians are in fact being persecuted, silenced and even physically attacked by the radical tranny faggots and gays. Fuck the only semi-based alphabet people are the lesbians that are standing up against that bullshit. These idiots are literally trying to take rights away from anyone they disagree with while at the same time screaming they don't have "Rights" that are really privileges.
It is fact at this point that Christians are being persecuted by regressive leftists who love to connect it to fictitious white supremacy because it's considered a white religion, plus they have all that tradcon fear mongering to fall back on if their message gets ignored by the masses, with said fearmongering actually being the tradcon's fault.
In regards to religious reform, Christianity is known to being pliable to it because of the new/old testamate split, unlike Islam where any legitimate religious reform is impossible as it would require both rejecting the core scriptures known as the Quran, and condemning Mohammed because of his atrocities, thus any alleged religious reform is nothing but historical revisionism.
The atheist community should have made efforts to reject the emerging regressive left before the bastards got in and destroyed the community before ultimately moving on when everyone left. Said bastards left a skeleton crew who continue to use the corpses of these communities to pump out regressive leftist propaganda.
It is a well known fact that individuals with left leaning views who do not adapt in response to the threat of the regressive left ultimately go regressive themselves. The only way to shield yourself from the regressive left is to be openly hostile to it.
Oh they do it on a bunch of pro "Woke" bullshit. Not just the White Supremacy stuff but also HEAVILY with the LGBTQ propaganda and they are doing it in a way so as to get people who are more center (What's left of them) to support it. IE: Anything is "XXPHOBIC" so if a Christian very calmy says "Oh yeah, you know I don't really agree with that, I'll pray for you and hope your life is good!" They will get cancelled by the social media platform and potentially doxxed and threatened.
Yes, Christianity is very subjective sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worst. I don't want to make direct comparisons to Islam as I am of the belief Islam is just objectively a violent religion hellbent on conquest which I feel they have proved all throughout history up until modern times and Christianity really does not behave that way unless they are trying to stop the spread of said radical Islam.
See, that right there is the biggest fucking problem. Atheism was never INTENDED to be a "Community" at all period. Atheism was simply an adjective to describe someone who has no belief system. As per usual though, in the leftist linguistic rodeo it was taken, morphed to be what they wanted it to be and then used as a weapon to spite the Christians. The only thing first generation Atheist voters really collectively fought for was clear separation of Church and State which is supported by Christians as well seeing as it's our constitution. I'm not sure at what point exactly the left really dug it's heels into Atheism and made it it's own.
Yeah that's exactly it. "Ultimate Tolerance will then breed intolerance." For every progressive move the ultra progressive make an equal and opposite regression is had until the Overton Window has shifted enough in favor of the progressives to make things like casual racism/discrimination against Whites/Christians socially acceptable and not viewed as regressive despite the history being the same but the roles swapped.
Yep that's exactly it, this radical political correctness and overly progressive society must be opposed at all costs else all is lost.
Not every Atheist out there is the reddit brand Atheist, I just do not have the ability to believe anymore of my own choosing. Make no mistake though, I am absolutely an American and as long as I draw breath I am willing to defend the right of Christians to express themselves and their religious believes as granted to them under the first ammendment.
Fuck the woke!
Agreed. Imagine an old house in the middle of a rainstorm, and the Atheists are tearing it down because they don't like the color of the walls. At the bare minimum, don't do it until after you have another house to stay in, or at least when it's not fucking raining.
I've become more tolerant of Christianity because I'm more understanding of what the fairly Liberal Christians are trying to do with metaphors about responsibility, the importance of the family structure, and the importance of the individual.
I still have problems with the organized christian establishment, as well as the Establishment Right's idea that Catholicism will save us from Leftism despite having a 100% failure rate. I do not want, and this country does not need, a resurgent Evangelical movement. But I've got no complaints to the people erecting a cross on the Michigan Capital.
No, they weren't. They were rationalists looking at ancient dogmas with a rational perspective, running rings around theists who attempted to rationally debate them, because, well, there's very little rationalism in any theistic interpretation of the universe.
The thing is, religion is not really about the nature of the universe. Religion is about controlling people for the collective good of the tribe or nation. What the atheists and theists alike, failed to understand was that is pointless to use rationalism to critique something that exists to control masses of irrational people.
The problem with the outspoken Atheist is that he is blind to the fact that many people are simply incapable of even remotely strict rationality. He thinks that his rationality can be taught to all. It cannot. No more than you can teach calculus to all.
The problem with the debating theist is that when he hears from the atheist that his belief system is designed to control people, he doesn't develop a square jaw, a strong brow, and say "Yes." Instead, without even thinking, he adopts the atheist's position that he must argue the rationality of his irrational religion, when he should instead have been arguing that there are enitrely too many irrational people for them to be governed by a rational system, and that an irrational system is therefore a basic requirement for civilization.
Yes, a critical theorist would have no interest in whether or not the claims of Christianity are true or not. Their criticism would be that Christianity creates oppressive power structures. For example, R. Tolteka Cuauhtin (one of the people involving in creating California's Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum) wrote that the spread of Christianity is Latin America was an act of "theocide" and a way to establish white supremacy.
"This middle-eastern religion that preaches that all men are equal will surely keep the white race on top!"
Meanwhile Adolf Hitler openly lamented the fact the Europe wasn't Islamic.
You’re talking about the same Dawkins that rationalized our universe’s current state as the Infinite Monkey Theorem. What about the infinite universe theory that they have had to hide in to keep denying a god? These modern superstitions are even more of a joke than Scientology. That’s all Dawkins and hitchens were, people with enough ego to believe they were infallible rationalists while spewing ignorant claims that have not aged well. You apparently never read the founding fathers much for your last rant, Jefferson was one of the best religious scholars of his time and most of the founding fathers believed stringent religious beliefs were necessary to make people act rationally. You don’t have to be that bright to realize we are far more irrational today then we were in the 1700’s even with religious dogmas.
You have a problem with that?
???? No, what about it, i am mildly curious, since boundness of universe is not something that can be experimentally verified or falsified given our present knowledge.
You’re kidding right? The infinite monkey theory is borderline retarded, we tried it, the monkeys shit on the keyboard and didn’t type any English words, which is exceptionally difficult considering that a and I are words. The fact of the matter is ancient aliens make a more convincing argument for human sapience than “it just kinda happened bro”.
It's not a theory, it's slightly advanced math (the infinite version, the finite version is middle school level of basic). Granted, result is pretty absurd, but so are conditions of it.
There's not enough cells, let alone living organisms, on Earth for appropriate sense of scale, so nope lol.
Luckily humans are stupid enough that any such argument falls apart because once again, if ancient aliens participated in humans acquiring their sapience... why are humans so stupid?
It’s a theory, most of math is a theory. Mathematically it would take trillions upon trillions of years based on the current metrics, far longer than our estimated timeline of earths existence. The scaled version show that monkeys were not capable of even baseline interest in the process. The concept would only work if the monkeys actively participated, which is redundant on its face.To pretend we could generate intelligent thought through random chance is as stupid as us pretending artificial intelligence developed itself. If ancient aliens participated in human sentience they likely did so with no care of us aside from being an experiment of their abilities. Sapience and intelligence are to completely different concepts, with the latter requiring the former to exist.
All of math is theory, but let's just say that mathematical theory and scientific theory are 2 vastly different concepts, even if many scientific theories worth anything can be written as mathematical theories.
[citation would be highly appreciated]. Because i too can pull numbers out of my ass. Besides, even if it takes trillions and trillions of years... why are you assuming Earth is somehow unique in Universe of trillions and trillions of planets that may have comparable initial conditions?
Yes, so what? If your issue with infinite monkey theorem is that it uses monkeys as example of someone who would produce random inputs instead of less biological source of randomness... Well, i can only say math is really not your strongest suit. I can only suspect it was not the strongest suit of someone who unironically setup such experiment either.
Given that general artificial intelligence does not exist and does not even seem to be possible given our current technology level and pace, your confidence is confusing.
This is just too spergy, the word youre looking for is theorem. Two completely separate concepts. A mathematical theory and a scientific theory are the same concept applied to two different aspects. A mathematical theorem is a provable concept, a mathematical theory is a concept that can be used to explain an actual occurrence.
Any mathematician who would insert a biological aspect that is easily fallible into a system is not a good mathematician, especially when trying to explain random variance. The point of the experiment was to essentially mock the creators of the theorem because it is a redundant analogy that wouldnt hold up in practice.
That was the point of the statement, hence the word pretend. Try to keep up.
It was truly tragic to see, during the rise of Atheism+, the proportion of that community who defined themselves by their skepticism and rationality, but were totally unable to apply those qualities when faced with similar dogma in different clothes.
I'm agnostic. Neither parent was religious and have been in social groups with secular people. Holy shit they hate religion. They blame it for everything. I come at it and end up defending Christianity just from what I've absorbed through the culture.
For one thing, these fucking secular younger folks are often techie futurist dicks and pseudo-intellectuals themselves. These fools hold advanced degrees and have done a lot to insulate themselves from less successful people. As they're Democrats this means most black people too but they'll be so compassionate when they say that isn't the case. They believe that tech will save us all and like to have circlejerk thought experiments where they divorce themselves from the real world, god, religion and play the What If game.
Now back to reality it's not really a defense of religion but if there's a ton more of these guys and they're running shit. The dumbest thing they could do is turn their back on God then create a supercomputer more powerful than the human mind. Humanity needs religion because technoslavery seems to be the only other option. None of these types ever ever talk about Christian charities or any of the good done in the name of religion.
Annnd heeereee you go...
The Ashes of Civilisation #18: Fedora Hat
Sadaam Hussein deserved to die, but there could not have been a worse way to make that happen.
I'm not sure how one can conflate the belief in no God, with all the twisted perspectives of the regressive Left.
Dawkins is a good guy, and I'm sure you know many atheists who are more principled than many Christians.
It's funny the leftist atheists try so hard to be not christian growing up in a christian-based culture that they end up taking a lot of the christian concepts and twisting them into their own means.
Look at Critical Race Theory, it is nothing but Adam & Eve's original sin twisted as a new tool of the left.
I certainly feel a bit shamed at the notion of science priests -- a term I used to dismiss
I just want to remind yall of reddit's "Faces of atheism" lmao
Atheism is jsut the lack of belief in a God. I'm atheist. I remember when that shit got big. Lots of great debating and smart people talking about shit, on both sides.
Then... the people that are now the adult communists joined in. They just wanted to be part of something.
They ruin everything.
They created "Atheism+" and brought about all the woke bullshit you hear about today.
Nonsense. The new atheists were never out to 'disprove' god because there's never been a proof for one in the first place. They were out to raise people's consciousness with regard to why they believe what they believe. With the ultimate aim of reducing the influence of institutionalized religion which they saw as harmful.
They failed, which is why a new 'secular religion' of Social Justice sprung up in place of their movement almost overnight. Their atheists turned out to be no better critical thinkers than theists.
Show me where Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins were espousing Critical Theory.
That's a lie and you know it.
Your complaint is that they deconstructed a lot of the Evangelical movements particularly retarded claims. Including that Evolution is impossible, that the Earth is 6,000 years old, that the Bible is absolutely and literally factually true, etc. Their position was not deconstructing all systems arbitrarily, nor redefining all forms of religion as systems of power that needed to be attacked as revolutionaries against Capitalism. At no point did anyone in Atheist Movement work to destroy Capitalism, which is the primary objective of all Critical Theories, as they are all Marxist strategies in Rhetorical Warfare. The only time that ever started to creep in was Atheism+, and that did not come from Atheism, it came from Leftists seizing control over a successful movement, and balkanizing and re-orienting it towards Leftism. This is the very reason the Skeptic community started going after Feminism, and it is because it was the Feminists specifically that were seizing control of Atheism on behalf of Leftist causes.
Continuing on: the Atheist movement didn't open the door for Leftism in the same way that the NFL and the Boy Scout didn't open the door for Leftism. Leftism is parasitical and will always seize control of any successful social organization to expand itself. The Atheist movement did not have any sort of gate-keeping mechanism, because Atheists are no an ideologically homogeneous group beyond those who are doubtful about the existence of God for whatever reason. It was hardly a unifying force, and was easy for Leftists to target. The forces of Leftism have been continuously pushing from Academia since Leftist terrorists were made professors 50 years ago. The radical Leftist movements of the 1970's are almost where all of the current ideological strands of Leftism trace directly back to.
If you are going to complain about people and systems that opened the door to Leftism, you should be pointing the finger at "Ethical Corporations" that Milton Friedman was talking about, again, in the 1970s. "Ethical Capitalism" and "Ethical Corporations" have always been about pushing Leftism in one form or another, and they do it with hundreds of millions of dollars; and they aren't even always tied to Globalism and Fabian Socialism. They tend to do it because their Leadership are Leftist already. As Academia produced more and more Leftist radicals, these Leftist radicals were getting MBAs, or degrees in Sociology or the Humanities, that were getting them jobs in Marketing, Advertising, and HR. All the same places where Diversity graduates go as well. The Left established a criminal racket of Social Justice in each and every propaganda firm, and started pushing marketing ideas like "shopping with brands that share your values".
And again, the Globalists didn't do this because they were already in power. American Academia did this because they were turning themselves in to Leftist Madrassas. The Athiesm movement didn't Let the wolves into the hen house. The wolves were already raising the chickens. It's not really any different from GamerGate when people have to accept that GamerGate woke people up to what the Left had been pushing already. A dying industry accepted the arguments for balkanization in Silicon Valley in order to preserve their power and influence. That didn't come from nowhere.
Worse, I'd argue that Atheism succeeded in weakening the grip of the Evangelical Movement's moral authoritarianism, which is a good thing, because if you had been paying attention; the moral authoritarians of the right and left are prepared to work together. Which is what was happening in the early 1990's with Tipper Gore and Hillary Clinton. The Evangelical movement of both the 1990's and 2000's engaged in repeated moral panics, aggressive moral authoritarianism, useless balkanization, a little bit of violent extremism, aggressive political indoctrination of children, and the unnecessary condemnation of innocent people. The Evangelicals had a fucking hard-on for absolutely hating Athiests. I still remember a poll done in the early 2000's that gave parents a list of people, and to choose who they would be most concerned about their kin having romantic relationships with. The most concerning was atheists... the second most concerning was terrorists. A lot of that was from the Evangelical narrative that Atheists were just physically incapable of morality. Every Atheist is, by definition, a psychopath; because how could you have morals if you didn't subscribe to Divine Command Theory? The Evangelicals couldn't even fucking argue Kant, or Christian Philosophy because they didn't even know what it was.
And if you think Christian Authoritarianism would have protected you from Leftism, I encourage you to read more about "Liberation Theology", check out how many churches are holding up rainbow flags out front, and who the fucking Pope is.
The Atheist Movement probably stopped more people from adopting Leftism than Christianity did, because those of us who are atheists that engaged in what we refer to as "Deconversion" stopped being religious entirely, and didn't adopt a new religious mindset. Christians have been adopting Marxism like many others, and Catholicism has been utterly conquered by Marxism, which isn't a surprise coming from the philosophy that founded Social Justice in the first place, and has all but lost to Marxism in South America.
I absolutely look back in regret. Was very into the new atheism energy that Dawkins and Hitchens had. Seeing globohomo and noticing how Christ taught against everything that it stands for helped point me to him.
The Christians where as much faggots as the sjws they are both a religion that demand you control how people live.
Yes except if we are directly comparing the two Christianity is not even close to the degeneracy of these faggots who mutiliate themselves and pretend that reality does not exist.
Christianity has been here for thousands of years, SJW's are going to eventually be nothing more than a piece of gunk on a militia members boot.
Right explain to me the actual difference between pedos hiding within the clergy and pedos hiding within the various identirarian protected groups. Also it was a christian who spread circumcision across the us. Your holy book claims god flooded the world killing everyone and all animals survived by being brought 2 at a time onto a giant boat recognition of reality is not the hill you wanna stand on.
Wish that was true sadly no the sjw orthodoxy will evolve and become a new permanent established religion that the sane people of the world have to suffer with assuming we avoid a nuclear apocalypse of course.
Dude it was Atheism Plus's fault for this shit to be honest. If you want the true open door moment in time it would be that.
You don't know what atheism is.