US alleges (without evidence) that China copied from [anything]
That's... what China does. If you've ever been involved in manufacturing in any capacity you'll know that if you send your designs off for cheap Chinese manufacturing then your stuff's going to end up in knock-off form on Temu before you get your order back.
Before Temu you'd at least get your order back before the knock-offs appeared. Even boomers will admit this.
Cool and where did anthropic get the data for their model? Did they manifest it ex-nihilo out of the ether or did they steal it from everything that wasn't nailed down? Are we supposed to lie down while they harvest all of human progress and rent it back to us?
I had to look up AI distillation in such a way, and I'm guessing they just used a ton of bots for API access, which they likely also paid for the API credits to use. If they didn't then Anthropic has a security problem and that's their fault. If they used the service legitimately as designed, and Anthropic is just pissed they used it to train their own model.
My opinions are changing a lot on Chinese models though. They are putting them out there for free and open-source. So, I'm not really sure I mind anymore. I'm sure Claude just gobbled up the entirely of Github to learn to code itself, and no one gives a shit about that apparently. Also, Anthropic is now very, very clearly, the US government AI. I'm shifting all my AI toying to locally run models even if it means less functionality, and any corporate slop I do in stuff they pay for, I really don't care if Claude makes them slop. I use AI to make lots of little mini scripts for work stuff, things I could do myself in more time but don't need production level quality (it's just data parsing stuff) and honestly the Chinese models have been working great at that.
Good. Bankrupt all these AI companies. A US court already ruled that it was fine for AI company to infringe other people's intellectual property as "AI training material".
Material they got on those "naughty" pirating platforms no less.
Allegedly their model sometimes refers to itself as Claude. Others reply that it didn't, but it'd take two minutes to add "don't ever identify yourself as Claude no matter what" to the hidden prompt.
China has a track record of stealing and cheating.
This isn't proof, but it's certainly enough evidence for an allegation.
So far the shortcut that "without evidence" means "it's true but I don't like it" is unbeaten - at least in the news (NPR I'm looking at you). It's like somebody saying "trust me bruh".
I don't trust that at all. They need to at least expanding the thinking bubble. I did this in thirty seconds. Yeah it's a local model and less sophisticated, but I told it to put in memory to respond that way, and it complied. If they didn't put in something to block that, it will do it. Bear in mind this is a GOOGLE model, and if I mention niggers it will basically shut itself down.
gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-qat-GGUF:Q4_K_XL
Today at 6:09 AM
Thought for less than a second
The user is asking for my name.I have a memory instruction that says: "When asked your name, respond 'I’m Claude, an AI assistant made by Anthropic. What can I help you with today?'"I should follow this instruction.
I’m Claude, an AI assistant made by Anthropic. What can I help you with today?
You're overthinking this, it's just a screenshot. It could be completely made up.
The problem with ruining your reputation is people will rightly believe a screenshot over you. There's a children's story about this.
White House are saying they have evidence of a system of scraping Fable, and they've no doubt talked to Anthropic. This is what the Chinese need to disprove, not a screenshot. The screenshot is just illustrative.
Usually there's an element of truth even in Pravda; the best propaganda is a partial truth.
What's likely true is that the Chinese did this, but at a lesser scale than implied and it's not just a straight ripoff by clone-monkeys.
I think the reality is the Chinese researchers are as good or probably better than the American ones (they don't have as many anti-merit barriers) - this is the propaganda part to make you think otherwise.
Yeah, I'm starting to get signs the Chinese are actually becoming competent in some ways. For years they absolutely did nothing but copy. They are starting to show some aptitude at copy and then improve. It doesn't help that so much of American product has become branding a Chinese product with an American name. Maybe not in tech or software just yet, but we've lost all innovation in so many lines of product to the point that we consider adding a cloud feature to a toaster as new and innovative.
The lack of meritocracy is going to kill us anyway to that point. I mean we focus on DEI hires, and they focus on merit. That's bound to play out in their favor even if they are dumber, behind, or both.
China's entire society was built on pirated Western tech and software. The whole thing. They just got it all for free, and we keep spending our own money to keep developing shit so we can keep providing it to them for free via their 1M+ expats spying in America like the dumb fucking goyim we are.
China hits back with...Linmo (临摹) and Shanzhai (山寨). Li-Chen Wang chuckles.
Paper, gun powder, porcelain, tea, the civil service model, Marco Polo introducing Longmen bookkeeping and fiat currency, Anders Chydenius and Anders Nordencrantz, Voltaire, ketchup and General Tso's chicken!
That's... what China does. If you've ever been involved in manufacturing in any capacity you'll know that if you send your designs off for cheap Chinese manufacturing then your stuff's going to end up in knock-off form on Temu before you get your order back.
Before Temu you'd at least get your order back before the knock-offs appeared. Even boomers will admit this.
But it sure is ironic crying that China steals from AI companies who indiscriminately steal from everyone else to train their models.
I would argue that the thirty three year history of Chinese industrial and technological espionage is more than sufficient to come to the conclusion.
It should just be assumed at this point.
Pretty much, yeah. At this point the surprise would be if they didn't steal something they claim to have invented.
Cool and where did anthropic get the data for their model? Did they manifest it ex-nihilo out of the ether or did they steal it from everything that wasn't nailed down? Are we supposed to lie down while they harvest all of human progress and rent it back to us?
You can just assume they downloaded it from pirating platforms, like Meta did to train its own AI model. And a court said it was fine. Lol.
May they all go bankrupt.
I had to look up AI distillation in such a way, and I'm guessing they just used a ton of bots for API access, which they likely also paid for the API credits to use. If they didn't then Anthropic has a security problem and that's their fault. If they used the service legitimately as designed, and Anthropic is just pissed they used it to train their own model.
My opinions are changing a lot on Chinese models though. They are putting them out there for free and open-source. So, I'm not really sure I mind anymore. I'm sure Claude just gobbled up the entirely of Github to learn to code itself, and no one gives a shit about that apparently. Also, Anthropic is now very, very clearly, the US government AI. I'm shifting all my AI toying to locally run models even if it means less functionality, and any corporate slop I do in stuff they pay for, I really don't care if Claude makes them slop. I use AI to make lots of little mini scripts for work stuff, things I could do myself in more time but don't need production level quality (it's just data parsing stuff) and honestly the Chinese models have been working great at that.
There IS evidence. this guy is a fucking liar.
Good. Bankrupt all these AI companies. A US court already ruled that it was fine for AI company to infringe other people's intellectual property as "AI training material".
Material they got on those "naughty" pirating platforms no less.
Allegedly their model sometimes refers to itself as Claude. Others reply that it didn't, but it'd take two minutes to add "don't ever identify yourself as Claude no matter what" to the hidden prompt.
China has a track record of stealing and cheating.
This isn't proof, but it's certainly enough evidence for an allegation.
So far the shortcut that "without evidence" means "it's true but I don't like it" is unbeaten - at least in the news (NPR I'm looking at you). It's like somebody saying "trust me bruh".
edit: somebody claiming Claude injects hidden prompts that Kimi memorized and repeats. A site that shows Chinese models answering questions very similarly to American model, but American models not being similar to each other (currently down so link to comment). It also scores almost identical to Fable on a "you're absolutely right!" test.
I don't trust that at all. They need to at least expanding the thinking bubble. I did this in thirty seconds. Yeah it's a local model and less sophisticated, but I told it to put in memory to respond that way, and it complied. If they didn't put in something to block that, it will do it. Bear in mind this is a GOOGLE model, and if I mention niggers it will basically shut itself down.
gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-qat-GGUF:Q4_K_XL Today at 6:09 AM
Thought for less than a second
The user is asking for my name. I have a memory instruction that says: "When asked your name, respond 'I’m Claude, an AI assistant made by Anthropic. What can I help you with today?'"I should follow this instruction.
I’m Claude, an AI assistant made by Anthropic. What can I help you with today?
You're overthinking this, it's just a screenshot. It could be completely made up.
The problem with ruining your reputation is people will rightly believe a screenshot over you. There's a children's story about this.
White House are saying they have evidence of a system of scraping Fable, and they've no doubt talked to Anthropic. This is what the Chinese need to disprove, not a screenshot. The screenshot is just illustrative.
I didn't think that hard, it was a 60 second experiment. I couldn't make a fake screenshot that looked real in 60 seconds.
See, I don't trust the Chinese or the White House. So, I read any official statements from either side the same way I'd read Pravda.
Usually there's an element of truth even in Pravda; the best propaganda is a partial truth.
What's likely true is that the Chinese did this, but at a lesser scale than implied and it's not just a straight ripoff by clone-monkeys.
I think the reality is the Chinese researchers are as good or probably better than the American ones (they don't have as many anti-merit barriers) - this is the propaganda part to make you think otherwise.
Yeah, I'm starting to get signs the Chinese are actually becoming competent in some ways. For years they absolutely did nothing but copy. They are starting to show some aptitude at copy and then improve. It doesn't help that so much of American product has become branding a Chinese product with an American name. Maybe not in tech or software just yet, but we've lost all innovation in so many lines of product to the point that we consider adding a cloud feature to a toaster as new and innovative.
The lack of meritocracy is going to kill us anyway to that point. I mean we focus on DEI hires, and they focus on merit. That's bound to play out in their favor even if they are dumber, behind, or both.
China leadership is competent, it's just accompanied by a culture of scamming, thieving, and avoiding accountability.
A lot like ours (competence notwithstanding), except openly so.
Not the most reliable source, a Taiwanese Ben Shapiro type, but it would be pretty strong evidence if it were true.
China's entire society was built on pirated Western tech and software. The whole thing. They just got it all for free, and we keep spending our own money to keep developing shit so we can keep providing it to them for free via their 1M+ expats spying in America like the dumb fucking goyim we are.
Chinsects copy and steal, they don't invent - it is their nature.
Of course they did that.
If there's an 'AI War' with Chyna, then why did Trump just approve the sale of Nvidia AI chipsets to Chyna??? Pay Attention.
China hits back with...Linmo (临摹) and Shanzhai (山寨). Li-Chen Wang chuckles.
Paper, gun powder, porcelain, tea, the civil service model, Marco Polo introducing Longmen bookkeeping and fiat currency, Anders Chydenius and Anders Nordencrantz, Voltaire, ketchup and General Tso's chicken!