The 90s saw a drop in crime across the board as the feds, states and local governments got "tough on crime". 1994 was the year of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, which was passed with the support of black leaders but is now called racist. Not sure what numbers this guy is using specifically because mass shooting has no agreed definition, but I guarantee wherever he got them it doesn't tell the story he thinks it does if you dig into it.
Spez: There was a time in America when a kid of any age could buy a BAR and a case of dynamite at his local hardware store, yet indiscriminate spree murders weren't a thing. The real question is what has happened to cause young men to so thouroughly reject society they decide it would be better to kill everyone around them.
I can't see how an assault rifle would significantly affect "mass shootings" in such a fashion - most such shootings were conducted with handguns rather than an assault rifle, were they not?
True. And I thought assault rifles were banned or fully automatic machine guns that the media seems to talk about endlessly. You can tell when a shooting is done by handgun how quickly it’s out of the news cycle
I'm not sure what you're trying to say exactly, but no assault rifles aren't banned or fully automatic guns. Assault rifles are just those that have a feature that the government deems to look scary like a pistol grip or a folding stock. Semi-automatic rifles, which is all you need, were legal the whole time.
Honestly, I can see magazine restrictions, presuming they are obeyed, as with any gun control, reducing casualties in mass shootings. Just simple math that if you have to reload more you are going to be able to shoot fewer people. That said a magazine is one of the simplest things in the world to construct. Seems like you could easily 3d print one, minus the spring.
Ironically, and for the same reason, I don't think automatic weapons (or machine guns as the gov't refers to them) are that dangerous. You can put a lot of rounds downrange, but you tend to hit fewer things, and you chew through ammo, so you have to reload and potentially run out faster. This is why firing in full auto mode, while most military rifles are capable of it, is discouraged for troops.
Sure, I mean, someone with better training is always going to be more effective than someone without. Still, better tools = more death. There are people that can reload revolvers really fast.
You do not need an FFL to purchase a machine gun registered before 1986, when the registry was closed. This means there is a relatively small number of them available and it can only get smaller as they wear out, although it is not uncommon for people to secretly, and illegally, make new recievers to keep them running.
Post-1986 machine guns require an FFL with a SOT, which is a special license to deal in NFA items. If you aren't actively conducting buisness with the guns, the ATF will take your license and you'll have to sell any NFA items.
It’s a fake argument. “Assault weapons” did not account for the drop or incline. It would be like me saying everytime I take a shit during a football game the team I favor scores more. While that could be empirically true no one actually believes me pooping will make the team I like play better.
A government becoming more totalitarian WILL reduce crime, to a certain breaking point. Part of that totalitarianism could be gun grabbing. As pointed out in a post above, the timeline they quote ALSO had massive draconian (and nowadays labelled "racist") crime reforms that were likely the real primary contributor to the criminality stat: Both "variables" were results from a third related variable.
Much like high temperature causes both more people swimming and thus drowning, as well as ice cream sales, they can be correlated, they ARE correlated, but they're both caused by a third agent. Buying ice cream won't result in someone drowning, and drowning someone won't result in Haagan Dasz's stock price going up. Draconian governments feel no guilt at stopping random people in the street and strip-searching them for drugs or weapons, reducing crimes related to these things. Likewise, draconian governments grab guns.
It's a minor but important distinction from your example, where the variables aren't actually really correlated at all.
I mean... he said two random numbers without any correlation and thought he was making a point? It's less that he's manipulating numbers and more that he just uncontrollably spewed vomit onto his keyboard.
Perhaps the easiest distinction is between small arms and crewed weapons. A gun (like a machine gun or a field artillery piece) has multiple operators rather than just one.
I guess they can use whatever terminology they want, but in my mind anything with a barrel and an explosive propellant is a gun. It's kind of like the government misusing the term machine gun. I can't stop them, but it doesn't change what machine gun actually means.
After a weekend firing dirty blanks from a rifle that was dirty to begin with it allows you to close the bolt when you manually cycle the action to reload after clearing the weapon to get chow. Said rifle would cycle normally when firing said blanks though.
disarm all the indians who dared stand up to the US army
lol wat? Bro, the Indians were dancing to their gods to enact a white genocide while being given endless handouts from white people. This was around the same time that natives were cashing in woodfire recipes at record low prices and killing livestock of settlers while the government was trying to get the indians off welfare. Muh fucking peaceful Pocahontas people.
Skip to 44:10 if you want an account of what ACTAULLY happened. Short version: they refused to turn in a rye sucker who was killing and robbing settlers and proceeded to gun down soldiers, firing first after a lengthy speech by one of the tribal about killing white men.
And here's the official Army account (Atlas of the Sioux Wars):
Big Foot eluded the cavalry patrols trying to prevent his movement to Pine Ridge by traveling through the Badlands. Therefore, Miles ordered the 7th Cavalry, commanded at the time by Colonel James Forsyth, to intercept Big Foot’s band, disarm them, and march them to a railhead for movement to Omaha. On 28 December 1890, advanced elements of the 7th Cavalry located the elusive Sioux and escorted them to a campsite along Wounded Knee Creek. The remainder of the regiment arrived at the campsite that night. The Sioux awoke the next morning to find themselves surrounded by 500 soldiers and 4 field pieces. Big Foot’s Sioux, with perhaps 120 men and about 200 women and children, recognized the hopelessness of their situation and agreed to be escorted to the railhead for transportation back to the reservation. The old chief was stricken with pneumonia, so the Army provided a heated tent for his care. Forsyth did not expect resistance when he deployed his units to disarm the Indians. However, the Indians grew increasingly upset as the soldiers searched the lodges and clothing of both men and women. The situation suddenly grew more volatile when a medicine man named Yellow Bird called for the warriors to resist. During one search, a soldier and an Indian scuffled for a rifle and the weapon accidentally discharged. Both sides opened fire at brutally close range as the women and children scattered in panic. The artillerymen on the hilltop added to the mayhem when they opened fire on the fleeing Indians. The fighting ended when the Indians fled the battlefield. On the field lay 150 dead Sioux, including Big Foot. The immensity of the tragedy was magnified in that at least 62 of the dead were women and children. The Army suffered 25 officers and soldiers killed and another 39 wounded. Miles was furious over the whole mismanaged affair. He relieved Forsyth of command (the decision was later overturned) and skillfully avoided further violence with the bands associated with the Ghost Dance.
You forget the part where they were starving, and this is not what happened at all (there was no attempt to arrest anyone in particular but just a scuffle over one rifle with a deaf guy leading to a discharge, after most rifles have been handed over, there was no "lengthy speech" only one guy dancing around and shouting in a trance, and "robbing soldiers" was capturing weapons to shoot back, at first using knives in the melee in the gunsmoke because again they have been disarmed before they were fired upon and actually the soldiers also likely hit each other).
The guy made up his story, pulled it from his ass.
Here's one actual account (Encyclopedia Britannica):
On December 28, 1890, the 7th Cavalry, commanded by Col. James W. Forsyth, reached the Miniconjou camp near Wounded Knee Creek, located roughly 20 miles northeast of the Pine Ridge Agency. The late Gen. George Armstrong Custer had led the 7th Cavalry to its demise at the Little Bighorn less than 15 years earlier. Big Foot saw Forsyth’s scouts and informed them that he would surrender without resistance. On December 29 Forsyth convened with the Miniconjou to begin the process of weapons confiscation. He herded them into a nearby clearing, had their men form a council circle, and surrounded the circle with his cavalry. He also positioned four Hotchkiss guns on a hilltop bordering the clearing.
Forsyth was clear in his terms: the Miniconjou must surrender all their weapons. Big Foot was hesitant, but he surrendered a few guns as a token of peace. Forsyth was not satisfied and ordered a complete search of the people and their camp, where his men discovered a host of hidden weapons. The increasingly intrusive search angered some of the Miniconjou. A man named Sits Straight began to dance the Ghost Dance and attempted to rouse the other members of the band, claiming that bullets would not touch them if they donned their sacred ghost shirts. The soldiers grew tense as Sits Straight’s dance reached a frenzy. When a deaf Miniconjou named Black Coyote refused to give up his gun, the weapon accidentally went off, and the fraught situation turned violent as the 7th Cavalry opened fire. Because many of the Miniconjou had already given up their weapons, they were left defenseless. Scores of Miniconjou were shot and killed in the first few moments, among them Big Foot. Some women and children attempted to flee the scene and sought protection in a nearby ravine, but the Hotchkiss guns fired on their position at a rate of 50 2-pound (0.9-kg) shells per minute. The Miniconjou who were able to make it a little farther were cut down by the mounted soldiers. The 7th Cavalry did not discriminate.
Immediately following the massacre, Forsyth ordered the transportation of 51 wounded Miniconjou to the Pine Ridge Agency. Hundreds of Lakota who lived there fled the area in horror; some even ambushed the 7th Cavalry in retaliation, prompting Miles to dispatch more troops to the area to quell further resistance. On January 2, 1891, a band of Lakota went to the site of the massacre and rescued a few survivors from the snow. The following day the U.S. Army unceremoniously buried 146 Miniconjou in a mass grave where the Hotchkiss guns had been placed, a location today known as Cemetery Hill. Many of the corpses were naked. Modern scholars estimate that between 250 and 300 Miniconjou were killed in total, almost half of whom were women and children. At least 25 U.S. soldiers also died, many likely fallen to friendly fire.
In the mentioned aftermath ambush, they were trapped in a narrow canyon and would have been massacred in turn if the (other) cavalry didn't come to rescue. This was less then 24 hours later. They were some really poor soldiers under really bad command.
Hasn’t that stat he is quoting been debunked? Or isn’t he manipulating numbers?
The 90s saw a drop in crime across the board as the feds, states and local governments got "tough on crime". 1994 was the year of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, which was passed with the support of black leaders but is now called racist. Not sure what numbers this guy is using specifically because mass shooting has no agreed definition, but I guarantee wherever he got them it doesn't tell the story he thinks it does if you dig into it.
Spez: There was a time in America when a kid of any age could buy a BAR and a case of dynamite at his local hardware store, yet indiscriminate spree murders weren't a thing. The real question is what has happened to cause young men to so thouroughly reject society they decide it would be better to kill everyone around them.
What's a BAR? Obviously you're not talking about a place to drink beer.
Browning Automatic Rifle
The civilian BAR has an entirely different mechanism IIRC.
Correct, they're similar in name only.
The BAR evolved into the FN MAG(M240).
I've actually never seen the movie! But thank you.
I can't see how an assault rifle would significantly affect "mass shootings" in such a fashion - most such shootings were conducted with handguns rather than an assault rifle, were they not?
True. And I thought assault rifles were banned or fully automatic machine guns that the media seems to talk about endlessly. You can tell when a shooting is done by handgun how quickly it’s out of the news cycle
I'm not sure what you're trying to say exactly, but no assault rifles aren't banned or fully automatic guns. Assault rifles are just those that have a feature that the government deems to look scary like a pistol grip or a folding stock. Semi-automatic rifles, which is all you need, were legal the whole time.
Honestly, I can see magazine restrictions, presuming they are obeyed, as with any gun control, reducing casualties in mass shootings. Just simple math that if you have to reload more you are going to be able to shoot fewer people. That said a magazine is one of the simplest things in the world to construct. Seems like you could easily 3d print one, minus the spring.
Ironically, and for the same reason, I don't think automatic weapons (or machine guns as the gov't refers to them) are that dangerous. You can put a lot of rounds downrange, but you tend to hit fewer things, and you chew through ammo, so you have to reload and potentially run out faster. This is why firing in full auto mode, while most military rifles are capable of it, is discouraged for troops.
Reloading takes very little time if you practice, and generally even less time if you treat magazines as disposable.
Sure, I mean, someone with better training is always going to be more effective than someone without. Still, better tools = more death. There are people that can reload revolvers really fast.
guns in general are a force multiplier. If you're going to use that argument, you might as well ban guns entirely...
You said it much better. Thanks.
You're thinking of "assault weapon". Assault rifle means select fire (capable of auto or burst) magazine fed rifle in an intermediate cartridge.
Yes, sorry that is what I meant.
As I recall they're not banned but you have to pay a $200 tax and undergo enhanced vetting to be allowed to purchase such a weapon.
Do you also need an FFL to purchase automatic weapons?
You do not need an FFL to purchase a machine gun registered before 1986, when the registry was closed. This means there is a relatively small number of them available and it can only get smaller as they wear out, although it is not uncommon for people to secretly, and illegally, make new recievers to keep them running.
Post-1986 machine guns require an FFL with a SOT, which is a special license to deal in NFA items. If you aren't actively conducting buisness with the guns, the ATF will take your license and you'll have to sell any NFA items.
The day Larry Vickers' SOT lapsed, they showed up and seized everything.
Would be fun to do shit like Brandon Herrera does and just buy/convert/build from scratch everything you want.
Larry Vickers is too based for the ATF.
It’s a fake argument. “Assault weapons” did not account for the drop or incline. It would be like me saying everytime I take a shit during a football game the team I favor scores more. While that could be empirically true no one actually believes me pooping will make the team I like play better.
It's closer to "ice cream sales cause drownings".
A government becoming more totalitarian WILL reduce crime, to a certain breaking point. Part of that totalitarianism could be gun grabbing. As pointed out in a post above, the timeline they quote ALSO had massive draconian (and nowadays labelled "racist") crime reforms that were likely the real primary contributor to the criminality stat: Both "variables" were results from a third related variable.
Much like high temperature causes both more people swimming and thus drowning, as well as ice cream sales, they can be correlated, they ARE correlated, but they're both caused by a third agent. Buying ice cream won't result in someone drowning, and drowning someone won't result in Haagan Dasz's stock price going up. Draconian governments feel no guilt at stopping random people in the street and strip-searching them for drugs or weapons, reducing crimes related to these things. Likewise, draconian governments grab guns.
It's a minor but important distinction from your example, where the variables aren't actually really correlated at all.
I mean... he said two random numbers without any correlation and thought he was making a point? It's less that he's manipulating numbers and more that he just uncontrollably spewed vomit onto his keyboard.
It's all made up.
To be fair I'm not entirely sure what the forward assist does either.
Eugene Stoner says it makes jams into disasters.
wth do they call it?
Perhaps the easiest distinction is between small arms and crewed weapons. A gun (like a machine gun or a field artillery piece) has multiple operators rather than just one.
I guess they can use whatever terminology they want, but in my mind anything with a barrel and an explosive propellant is a gun. It's kind of like the government misusing the term machine gun. I can't stop them, but it doesn't change what machine gun actually means.
I thought your rifle was for shooting and your gun was for fun?
After a weekend firing dirty blanks from a rifle that was dirty to begin with it allows you to close the bolt when you manually cycle the action to reload after clearing the weapon to get chow. Said rifle would cycle normally when firing said blanks though.
It creates controversy.
His ancestors, if he actually does have any blood quantum, would be appalled the he's simping for the US government and "settlers" a century later.
lol wat? Bro, the Indians were dancing to their gods to enact a white genocide while being given endless handouts from white people. This was around the same time that natives were cashing in woodfire recipes at record low prices and killing livestock of settlers while the government was trying to get the indians off welfare. Muh fucking peaceful Pocahontas people.
Skip to 44:10 if you want an account of what ACTAULLY happened. Short version: they refused to turn in a rye sucker who was killing and robbing settlers and proceeded to gun down soldiers, firing first after a lengthy speech by one of the tribal about killing white men.
And here's the official Army account (Atlas of the Sioux Wars):
You forget the part where they were starving, and this is not what happened at all (there was no attempt to arrest anyone in particular but just a scuffle over one rifle with a deaf guy leading to a discharge, after most rifles have been handed over, there was no "lengthy speech" only one guy dancing around and shouting in a trance, and "robbing soldiers" was capturing weapons to shoot back, at first using knives in the melee in the gunsmoke because again they have been disarmed before they were fired upon and actually the soldiers also likely hit each other).
The guy made up his story, pulled it from his ass.
Here's one actual account (Encyclopedia Britannica):
In the mentioned aftermath ambush, they were trapped in a narrow canyon and would have been massacred in turn if the (other) cavalry didn't come to rescue. This was less then 24 hours later. They were some really poor soldiers under really bad command.
wounded knee injuns deserved it for acting like modern day ghetto ethnics
Oh please, everyone knows that's the safety on that kind of AK style pistol.
be silent hoplophobe