I think this is far more believable than the 7,000 - 15,000 the United States Ministry of Propaganda claims.
Edit: I'd also like to add that the fact they can't narrow it down any closer than a spread of 8,000 casualties seems incredibly amateurish, and just plain not credible. They can do whatever they want with numbers they made up. Why not make them more believable?
7000-15000 casualties seems perfectly realistic. A bit low, if anything.
The problem is in definitions of words. To a layperson, a casualty is a dead body. To a military or disaster expert, a casualty is someone with a cut on their arm.
15k injured Russians is plenty believable. They just make sure to word it in such a way that it SEEMS like they're saying something completely different.
i think the point is that we keep getting these western propaganda reports of thousands of russian soldiers dying, and how russia is losing, and then some news comes out admitting that was all completely false. like the now known facts that:
zelensky fled the country very early on, easily over a month ago. it was first to poland, and now he's in israel. autists at 4chan figured it out by denoting the electical sockets in the public pictures he's been putting out. his "public appearance" pics claiming he's inspiring troops by being there on the front lines while wearing flak jackets are all lies... he's not even in ukraine and hasn't been there for over a month.
there's a lot less actual skirmishes going on than western propaganda makes us believe. tons of indy journalists have posted extensive video and pics on how people are just going about their lives. the larry johnson interview goes over how badly the western propaganda doesn't even come close to making mathematical sense. putin would have to be a blathering idiot and would already have failed if western propaganda was accurate.
there's a shitload of western propaganda about russia attacking schools. turns out those schools were emptied out and being used by ukrainian troops and weapons systems. there's now been multiple strikes where foreign volunteer fighters gave those locations up by idiotically posting selfies to social media, not realizing they geotagged make-shift bases for missile strikes.
the biolabs scandal is out of western propaganda control. western propaganda mislabeled it a conspiracy theory, and then the undersecretary of the US state department admitted it was true on national fucking television.
western mainstream propaganda, aided by social media, keeps glorifying these outright fake stories of ukrainian war heroes and brutal russian attacks, only for people to reverse image search and find out the stories are mostly or completely faked.
even NYT admitted a few days ago that russia is winning a lot more than western propaganda is presenting and that the numbers aren't even close to adding up.
I've seen those videos. If you look at them with your eyes open you can very clearly see the outlets are Type F. They've got the two male grounding pins in the socket itself. Israeli type H sockets use 3 pins on the plug, and are almost always angled 45 degrees.
The worst part is they didn't read the article or failed to think about it. BBC Russia's list isn't meant to be every single Russian soldier who's died - it's the dead who have been identified in reports the journalists were able to obtain. Those who haven't been identified yet or whose deaths were noted in reports not available to journalists wouldn't be counted. 557 is the minimum possible and, as you've explained, unlikely to be the real number.
Interesting way to go about it. I suspect though that if the Russian military confirmed 500 deaths back in early March that the figures are likely much higher. Definitely not 15,000 though.
I think 3-4x higher is probably reasonable, but the disparity between the two armies isn't so bad that high casualties could be avoided. This is still high kinetic warfare. Depending on how many people you are deploying into combat, 1,000 dead a week isn't impossible, and the Russians have actually endured that before.
High Kinetic warfare exhausts armies, logistics, and economies very quickly if they aren't ready for it, and part of that comes from high casualties. Your worst high-kinetic warfare scenario involves losing surface ships, where you start losing hundreds or thousands of sailors from a single exchange of fire.
I don't think the Russians were fully prepared for this war, and they seem to have misunderstood that the Ukranians had better morale than expected, and had already been fighting a very dirty war (partly against them) in the East for several years. The Ukranians did repeatedly lose in their assaults against Russian positions, but it was never obvious to me that the Ukranians couldn't hold ground, which is what they are currently doing.
If the logistical problems with the Russian Army are real (and considering the lack of optics, and damage to vehicles that indicate poor maintenance is anything to go by), Russia may have exhausted it's High Kinetic potential already (with regards to the limited scope of damage they are actually prepared to do).
This could mean that casualties will stabalize as the Russians try to solidify their front and logistics in order to launch a standardized offensive later once they unfuck themselves.
By relatively high casualties considering the disparity, I meant that it is pretty bad for Russia to take so many loses with their superior tech and resources. They should be able to do better.
As of late, the only real victims in this I see are some civilians (there are a lot of awful people in Ukraine if even a 10th of the videos I've seen are true and these are videos they posted of themselves) and the poor dumb russian soldiers. There has been nothing good done with and for the russian miliarty in a long time and those boys are just more chattel.
We all basically acknowledge that, but it's good to get some minimums for our analysis.
High-ranking officials doesn't tell us much. If anything, killing high ranking officials could potentially keep over-all losses down as it would cause the attacking force to halt and re-organize. It could be prone to attack and harassment, but a harrying attack is not going to generate more losses than a proper offensive will.
jester is literally reading the ukr propoganda. its so obvious, and so hilarious. because even with his 'reputation' around here, and calling everyone stormcucks, he would be supporting the natsoc party if cnn told him to ahaa
massive number of Russian vehicles getting repurposed
roflkek, he's literally reading pravda, hahaha
Russian-troops-loot-gas-station
holy shit finally jester linked something on par with bushs war crimes
It means that the generals are trying to rally the troops, and trying to improve the cohesion and morale. We are seeing massive number of Russian vehicles getting repurposed, and controlled by Ukrainians.
Even a massive intelligence device(Krasuhka-4) used to jam radars and electronic devices, the pinnacle in Russian tech, was captured by Ukrainians. I am hoping that the CIA and the US can extract that device from Ukraine. It will help NATO understand the defenses of Russia and how to bypass them. Sure it is half of the device, but it is an incredible find.
The list includes one major-general, seven colonels, one naval captain first rank, nine lieutenant-colonels, 20 majors and 70 junior officers. The rest are non-commissioned officers or privates.
ukr has been claiming they were owning the comman staff, this would appear to make that an obvious combat exxageration.
a thousand dead and 3x wounded wouldn't be unheard of, and a 3-1 ratio of wounded to dead isn't impossible, but it's actually considered quite high. It would be a real blood letting.
5-1 and 7-1 is much more common, particularly nowadays with modern medicine.
I think this is far more believable than the 7,000 - 15,000 the United States Ministry of Propaganda claims.
Edit: I'd also like to add that the fact they can't narrow it down any closer than a spread of 8,000 casualties seems incredibly amateurish, and just plain not credible. They can do whatever they want with numbers they made up. Why not make them more believable?
7000-15000 casualties seems perfectly realistic. A bit low, if anything.
The problem is in definitions of words. To a layperson, a casualty is a dead body. To a military or disaster expert, a casualty is someone with a cut on their arm.
15k injured Russians is plenty believable. They just make sure to word it in such a way that it SEEMS like they're saying something completely different.
I imagine most products of the american education system never had the talk about casualties vs fatalities in their history classes.
Too busy watching feral children slap each other in front of a disinterested teacher barely hiding their alcoholism.
i think the point is that we keep getting these western propaganda reports of thousands of russian soldiers dying, and how russia is losing, and then some news comes out admitting that was all completely false. like the now known facts that:
I've seen those videos. If you look at them with your eyes open you can very clearly see the outlets are Type F. They've got the two male grounding pins in the socket itself. Israeli type H sockets use 3 pins on the plug, and are almost always angled 45 degrees.
In this context wouldn't it be someone who is injured severely enough to be taken out of service? If that's the case 7000 is still ridiculous.
No, you drooling imbecile. A casualty is someone who has been injured and the injury caused them to become combat ineffective.
Also, the ratio of injured to dead is typically 3:1, so even 15,000 casualties would imply ~5000 dead.
The worst part is they didn't read the article or failed to think about it. BBC Russia's list isn't meant to be every single Russian soldier who's died - it's the dead who have been identified in reports the journalists were able to obtain. Those who haven't been identified yet or whose deaths were noted in reports not available to journalists wouldn't be counted. 557 is the minimum possible and, as you've explained, unlikely to be the real number.
Then you're delusional. There are almost 2000 visually confirmed Russian vehicles that have been destroyed, and again those are just the visually confirmed ones. To believe that the number of Russian troops killed is anywhere near 557 is pure cope.
time for you to read about the neo nazis, shill
Strange how this sub is suddenly so concerned about nazis.
A lot of those photo's are clearly non destroyed tanks. I just clicked a few randomly and the tanks are intact.
Feel free to believe what you want, but it's always interesting to see things like this slip through the narrative filter.
I mean, if they really went after officially acknowledged deaths, I am very surprised they found a whole 557 of them.
Yeah I don’t believe anything about this phony war.
Interesting way to go about it. I suspect though that if the Russian military confirmed 500 deaths back in early March that the figures are likely much higher. Definitely not 15,000 though.
It'd be easy to believe three or four times this, which would still be relatively high considering the disparty of the two armies.
I think 3-4x higher is probably reasonable, but the disparity between the two armies isn't so bad that high casualties could be avoided. This is still high kinetic warfare. Depending on how many people you are deploying into combat, 1,000 dead a week isn't impossible, and the Russians have actually endured that before.
High Kinetic warfare exhausts armies, logistics, and economies very quickly if they aren't ready for it, and part of that comes from high casualties. Your worst high-kinetic warfare scenario involves losing surface ships, where you start losing hundreds or thousands of sailors from a single exchange of fire.
I don't think the Russians were fully prepared for this war, and they seem to have misunderstood that the Ukranians had better morale than expected, and had already been fighting a very dirty war (partly against them) in the East for several years. The Ukranians did repeatedly lose in their assaults against Russian positions, but it was never obvious to me that the Ukranians couldn't hold ground, which is what they are currently doing.
If the logistical problems with the Russian Army are real (and considering the lack of optics, and damage to vehicles that indicate poor maintenance is anything to go by), Russia may have exhausted it's High Kinetic potential already (with regards to the limited scope of damage they are actually prepared to do).
This could mean that casualties will stabalize as the Russians try to solidify their front and logistics in order to launch a standardized offensive later once they unfuck themselves.
By relatively high casualties considering the disparity, I meant that it is pretty bad for Russia to take so many loses with their superior tech and resources. They should be able to do better.
Agreed, I think the over-estimated themselves and underestimated Ukraine. Which is a hell of a feat considering that they were already fighting them.
As of late, the only real victims in this I see are some civilians (there are a lot of awful people in Ukraine if even a 10th of the videos I've seen are true and these are videos they posted of themselves) and the poor dumb russian soldiers. There has been nothing good done with and for the russian miliarty in a long time and those boys are just more chattel.
this. there appears to be a lot of civilian shooting... but it seems more from one side. this is why civ militias as the military wont work.
Unfortunately this means that deaths are much higher due to the limited scope of how the information is gathered. It could be much more.
Especially with the amount of high ranking officials dying. That is never a good sign.
We all basically acknowledge that, but it's good to get some minimums for our analysis.
High-ranking officials doesn't tell us much. If anything, killing high ranking officials could potentially keep over-all losses down as it would cause the attacking force to halt and re-organize. It could be prone to attack and harassment, but a harrying attack is not going to generate more losses than a proper offensive will.
jester is literally reading the ukr propoganda. its so obvious, and so hilarious. because even with his 'reputation' around here, and calling everyone stormcucks, he would be supporting the natsoc party if cnn told him to ahaa
roflkek, he's literally reading pravda, hahaha
holy shit finally jester linked something on par with bushs war crimes
It means that the generals are trying to rally the troops, and trying to improve the cohesion and morale. We are seeing massive number of Russian vehicles getting repurposed, and controlled by Ukrainians.
Even a massive intelligence device(Krasuhka-4) used to jam radars and electronic devices, the pinnacle in Russian tech, was captured by Ukrainians. I am hoping that the CIA and the US can extract that device from Ukraine. It will help NATO understand the defenses of Russia and how to bypass them. Sure it is half of the device, but it is an incredible find.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44879/ukraine-just-captured-part-of-one-of-russias-most-capable-electronic-warfare-systems
We also saw them looting a gas station convenience store https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10636193/Russian-troops-use-tank-loot-gas-station-amid-morale-issues.html
ukr has been claiming they were owning the comman staff, this would appear to make that an obvious combat exxageration.
That bit feels like it was ripped right out of The Patriot, adapted for modern use.
If you only count the 'confirmed' ones, you're likely vastly underestimating the number.
Absolutely, but it's doubtful they are undercounting by over 15,000. This is a hard minimum.
"BBC"
Sure.
a thousand dead and 3x wounded wouldn't be unheard of, and a 3-1 ratio of wounded to dead isn't impossible, but it's actually considered quite high. It would be a real blood letting.
5-1 and 7-1 is much more common, particularly nowadays with modern medicine.