i get piled on by bethesda fanboys when i suggest that maybe bethesda shouldn't waste money on pronouns.. voicing and writing dialogue for "they/them".
Sine we know how bug free and glitch free bethesda games are ;p they got plenty of freed up budget to do frivolous things like adding in pronouns.
For Mandela's memorial service, they hired a sign language interpreter who just made whatever gestures he felt would look convincing-enough to pass.
Nobody bothered verrifying if there was an audience for that, what sign language ( there are dozens ) audience would be large enough to warrant an interpreter, and if he could competently use that sign language.
Because it was virtue-signaling, and the opportunity to hire another person to fill a useless position.
90% of signing deaf people, are deaf from birth or nearabouts, and have had the education system massively fail them. Their literacy is at a year 3 or 4 level, they are still learning to read, instead of 'reading to learn'
People able to use subtitles have already learnt english, and then lost their hearing to the point they need subtitles, or its for people playing late at night or in a noisy environment...
There is actually very little overlap between the two. Not that there aren't a couple few deaf people who became literate, but it really is 10% who overcome that barrier at about the age of 9 or 10, and don't plateau.
u/vebent isn't wrong, if I became deaf, even though I understand a sign language myself, I'd much prefer subtitles/closed captions, but then we'd be among the 'post-lingually deafened. But if we were born deaf, we likely wouldn't be able to read them.'. The 'pre-lingually deafened' are an entirely different population, with different needs.
I'm as anti virtue-signally as anybody, but this isn't that bad. I'll tell you what is bad though: For a live interpretation, what the interpreter signs is roughly 6 seconds behind what the person is saying. The reason for this 'lag time' is that we don't interpret it word for word, it would be a pretty awful and meaningless interpretation doing that. The 6s lag time lets the interpreter process and understand the actual meaning of the sentence and sign that. So each time the news broadcast shows some tosser politician with an interpreter and ends right as the politician says something, then cuts, that is entirely performative of the broadcaster. The last 6 or so secconds of the important announcement were cut. But the hearing people don't know that, they think the deaf were given access, after all they could see an interpreter right?
I've long been of the opinion that if you are going to offer foreign languages as classes and as subtitles, it should be your native ones first. Including your area's sign language. Not spanish. Not french. They can and should learn English if they're coming here. But the native languages and the sign language, in this case American Sign Language (ASL). There's a nationalist argument for pushing this over foreign languages.
As someone who is partially deaf, “deaf culture” is what makes me very wary of other disabled people. I don’t trust people who are disabled until I’m certain that they aren’t the most manipulative and toxic people I’ll ever meet in my life.
lol, me with the "autism community." Maybe it's because of the fact wokeism took it over, but they are just the most defeatist, whiny group ever. "Woe is me!" "Society should bend to me" "Me me me me" I hate it. Does being on the spectrum suck? Absolutely. But the onus is on us to adapt to society. It is ludicrous to expect any group to bend over backwards to cater to the whims of a miniscule few.
Not to say that there shouldn't be things to help them integrate as best they can, but the "community" itself is an absolute den of selfishness, narcissism, and defeatism.
There's a difference between stupid and uneducated. The god awful public education and health systems have failed them. When it's 90% of people with a physical disability, not a mental one, who can't read before they hit 18 (when personal responsibility kicks in) then we need to look at what the parents, schools and hospitals are doing. If it were just double the base rate of illiteracy then sure, it would just be the deafness exacerbating existing issues. But roughly 90% of them? Something else is going on.
I'm all for personal responsibility, but these kids are being let down somewhere while they are children.
You aren't wrong about the decay in western civ, and I'm looking at the trend towards mainstreaming/inclusion instead of specialist schools with expertise and resources as a major contributor. Not only do the disabled kids not get the resources they need, all the other kids get a major distraction in the classroom. It's lose/lose, with children's futures.
But roughly 90% of them? Something else is going on.
From my limited interactions with this community and from what I've heard from those more acquainted;
It's the fault of the community itself.
They act like niggers.
Meaning full crabs in a bucket attitude, refusal to learn and grow, and worship of ignorance.
I am a proponent of harsh teachings and discipline for children. It's more effective to let them obviously fail and call them idiots while forcing them to practice until they aren't idiots.
Which is why I'm against the sign language shit. I think it's a relic of a bygone age and only hurts the deaf by forcing them into an alternate society and nation.
So realistically I find it hard to care. Their numbers are few, and they can get along well enough with technology.
Though I will say that the sign language nonsense in political speeches is hilarious. Watching some faggot dance in the corner while a crooked politician talks about war is peak comedy.
From my limited interactions with this community and from what I've heard from those more acquainted;
It's the fault of the community itself.
Oh for sure, the community is to blame for many of their ills, it is a toxic victim-based culture for sure.
But I don't think that explains what happens at age 10, it can't explain how when 90% of deaf kids are to hearing parents, they have poor as fuck literacy, the few deaf kids with deaf parents do quite a bit better.
As long as the option isn't on by default, I don't really see any problem with them adding it as an additional feature- Microsoft can afford to fritter away as much money as they want on diversity/virtue signalling efforts and still maintain the same development budget. Hell, maybe they'll just build their own department for this shit for all their games.
The only time I would take issue with this is if it affects the development or an aspect of the game for other players e.g. easy mode in a Souls-like. Also, any pointless additions for people that shouldn't be playing the game anyway e.g. braille for the blind or kids options in an 18+ rated game.
Being able to silently communicate has a number of benefits, both for dealing with the extremely rare profoundly deaf non-lip-reader-who-doesn't-read-and-also-doesn't-have-an-interpreter, but also just for talking with people when you're supposed to be quiet.
I've seen rudimentary sign-like languages develop with carnival game buskers, who can't shout to each-other during low-business times due to distance. I'm sure other industries might have the same.
The military has a few hand signals for when silence is necessary.
Also factory workers, because of ambient noise. Sometimes even screaming at the top of your lungs doesn't help you be heard.
And interacting with non-humans, where consistent gestures can aid with understanding of speech on their part (not to mention understanding their body language back at you.)
If I’m reading this correctly, the vast majority of born-deaf people don’t learn how to fucking read? How is this even possible? Like if I’m born deaf, I’m learning to read as quickly as possible. Because reading is probably the number one vector for accessing society as a deaf person.
If I’m reading this correctly, the vast majority of born-deaf people don’t learn how to fucking read?
Yep.
In addition to what the other person mentioned, there's also some real difficulty in establishing a language initially. I can't teach you to read unless there's another language to scaffold that off of. If you don't understand spoken english or a sign language, and your parents and teachers don't understand a sign language, and their spoken english isn't getting through, how are you going to learn much of anything?
Instead of getting the support they need through specialized schools, they're generally put through normal schools even though that won't do much good for them, because they need the additional resource of sign language, and the process for them learning how to read past a fourth grade level is different for them because of that.
I don't have the game, so I have to ask, is this just for cut scenes only, or is someone having to sign things like "Car sounds" "Car accelerates" "Car brakes" and things like that?
When will they include braille? I just can't understand how they can be so uninclusive.
Because merit is no longer the sole cause of hiring.
i get piled on by bethesda fanboys when i suggest that maybe bethesda shouldn't waste money on pronouns.. voicing and writing dialogue for "they/them".
Sine we know how bug free and glitch free bethesda games are ;p they got plenty of freed up budget to do frivolous things like adding in pronouns.
It’s nice to know that modders will erase all that bullshit within days.
Just empty virtue signaling, as always
For Mandela's memorial service, they hired a sign language interpreter who just made whatever gestures he felt would look convincing-enough to pass.
Nobody bothered verrifying if there was an audience for that, what sign language ( there are dozens ) audience would be large enough to warrant an interpreter, and if he could competently use that sign language.
Because it was virtue-signaling, and the opportunity to hire another person to fill a useless position.
It gets written about in the press.
Of course he's black too. I call it, super virtue signaling.
Is he signing in Jive?
No he is signing in gang sign and pew-pew.
I have rigger fatigue
The sign language guy should just be a virtual avatar... No job for him 😂
Ok so, this is my area
This isn't as performative as it might appear.
90% of signing deaf people, are deaf from birth or nearabouts, and have had the education system massively fail them. Their literacy is at a year 3 or 4 level, they are still learning to read, instead of 'reading to learn'
People able to use subtitles have already learnt english, and then lost their hearing to the point they need subtitles, or its for people playing late at night or in a noisy environment...
There is actually very little overlap between the two. Not that there aren't a couple few deaf people who became literate, but it really is 10% who overcome that barrier at about the age of 9 or 10, and don't plateau.
u/vebent isn't wrong, if I became deaf, even though I understand a sign language myself, I'd much prefer subtitles/closed captions, but then we'd be among the 'post-lingually deafened. But if we were born deaf, we likely wouldn't be able to read them.'. The 'pre-lingually deafened' are an entirely different population, with different needs.
I'm as anti virtue-signally as anybody, but this isn't that bad. I'll tell you what is bad though: For a live interpretation, what the interpreter signs is roughly 6 seconds behind what the person is saying. The reason for this 'lag time' is that we don't interpret it word for word, it would be a pretty awful and meaningless interpretation doing that. The 6s lag time lets the interpreter process and understand the actual meaning of the sentence and sign that. So each time the news broadcast shows some tosser politician with an interpreter and ends right as the politician says something, then cuts, that is entirely performative of the broadcaster. The last 6 or so secconds of the important announcement were cut. But the hearing people don't know that, they think the deaf were given access, after all they could see an interpreter right?
I've long been of the opinion that if you are going to offer foreign languages as classes and as subtitles, it should be your native ones first. Including your area's sign language. Not spanish. Not french. They can and should learn English if they're coming here. But the native languages and the sign language, in this case American Sign Language (ASL). There's a nationalist argument for pushing this over foreign languages.
If they're such massive failures as people, why are they being encouraged to play video games and catered to in politics?
This just further shows the decay of western society to me.
I am 100% against sign language if the reason we're doing it is because the deaf are too stupid to read.
I'm far past caring about people that can't keep up.
I am against anything that benefits the deaf after spending 5 years in close proximity to "deaf culture".
Sign language interpreters aren't even a cureall for the supposed legions of illiterate deafies either. Not everyone knows ASL.
lol, me with the "autism community." Maybe it's because of the fact wokeism took it over, but they are just the most defeatist, whiny group ever. "Woe is me!" "Society should bend to me" "Me me me me" I hate it. Does being on the spectrum suck? Absolutely. But the onus is on us to adapt to society. It is ludicrous to expect any group to bend over backwards to cater to the whims of a miniscule few.
Not to say that there shouldn't be things to help them integrate as best they can, but the "community" itself is an absolute den of selfishness, narcissism, and defeatism.
There's a difference between stupid and uneducated. The god awful public education and health systems have failed them. When it's 90% of people with a physical disability, not a mental one, who can't read before they hit 18 (when personal responsibility kicks in) then we need to look at what the parents, schools and hospitals are doing. If it were just double the base rate of illiteracy then sure, it would just be the deafness exacerbating existing issues. But roughly 90% of them? Something else is going on.
I'm all for personal responsibility, but these kids are being let down somewhere while they are children.
You aren't wrong about the decay in western civ, and I'm looking at the trend towards mainstreaming/inclusion instead of specialist schools with expertise and resources as a major contributor. Not only do the disabled kids not get the resources they need, all the other kids get a major distraction in the classroom. It's lose/lose, with children's futures.
From my limited interactions with this community and from what I've heard from those more acquainted;
It's the fault of the community itself.
They act like niggers.
Meaning full crabs in a bucket attitude, refusal to learn and grow, and worship of ignorance.
I am a proponent of harsh teachings and discipline for children. It's more effective to let them obviously fail and call them idiots while forcing them to practice until they aren't idiots.
Which is why I'm against the sign language shit. I think it's a relic of a bygone age and only hurts the deaf by forcing them into an alternate society and nation.
So realistically I find it hard to care. Their numbers are few, and they can get along well enough with technology.
Though I will say that the sign language nonsense in political speeches is hilarious. Watching some faggot dance in the corner while a crooked politician talks about war is peak comedy.
Oh for sure, the community is to blame for many of their ills, it is a toxic victim-based culture for sure.
But I don't think that explains what happens at age 10, it can't explain how when 90% of deaf kids are to hearing parents, they have poor as fuck literacy, the few deaf kids with deaf parents do quite a bit better.
As long as the option isn't on by default, I don't really see any problem with them adding it as an additional feature- Microsoft can afford to fritter away as much money as they want on diversity/virtue signalling efforts and still maintain the same development budget. Hell, maybe they'll just build their own department for this shit for all their games.
The only time I would take issue with this is if it affects the development or an aspect of the game for other players e.g. easy mode in a Souls-like. Also, any pointless additions for people that shouldn't be playing the game anyway e.g. braille for the blind or kids options in an 18+ rated game.
Being able to silently communicate has a number of benefits, both for dealing with the extremely rare profoundly deaf non-lip-reader-who-doesn't-read-and-also-doesn't-have-an-interpreter, but also just for talking with people when you're supposed to be quiet.
I've seen rudimentary sign-like languages develop with carnival game buskers, who can't shout to each-other during low-business times due to distance. I'm sure other industries might have the same.
The military has a few hand signals for when silence is necessary.
Also factory workers, because of ambient noise. Sometimes even screaming at the top of your lungs doesn't help you be heard.
And interacting with non-humans, where consistent gestures can aid with understanding of speech on their part (not to mention understanding their body language back at you.)
Excellent take on this. Bravo.
If I’m reading this correctly, the vast majority of born-deaf people don’t learn how to fucking read? How is this even possible? Like if I’m born deaf, I’m learning to read as quickly as possible. Because reading is probably the number one vector for accessing society as a deaf person.
Yep.
In addition to what the other person mentioned, there's also some real difficulty in establishing a language initially. I can't teach you to read unless there's another language to scaffold that off of. If you don't understand spoken english or a sign language, and your parents and teachers don't understand a sign language, and their spoken english isn't getting through, how are you going to learn much of anything?
Instead of getting the support they need through specialized schools, they're generally put through normal schools even though that won't do much good for them, because they need the additional resource of sign language, and the process for them learning how to read past a fourth grade level is different for them because of that.
I don't have the game, so I have to ask, is this just for cut scenes only, or is someone having to sign things like "Car sounds" "Car accelerates" "Car brakes" and things like that?
The article is saying it is for cut scenes only
That would be awesome lol
It seems odd that they're using FMV for this, when it has fallen out of fashion for the cutscenes themselves.