It’s Churchian nonsense. There are two forms of forgiveness in the Bible, the mortal and the Divine. The Divine forgiveness is absolution and that is Gods alone. The mortal forgiveness is to not hold hatred in your heart. That means act justly without anger and judge righteously, that is what is meant by forgive trespasses and turn the other cheek. This whole “victims” granting absolution is actual heresy because they are granting themselves divine right. So much of the Bible is bastardized by bad translation, much like meekness.
This is the correct take here. In properly practiced Christianity, "forgiving" an enemy means giving them a chance for the last rites before you cut off their head.
there are also theories that Jesus was referring to some custom or other where Romans backhanded people they saw as beneath them, so turning the other cheek would be challenging them to slap you with the palm like an equal.
same for the "extra mile". Romans were supposedly limited to forcing civilians to carry their gear one or two miles only, and going further could then incur punishment for the Roman.
i'm not sure if these 2 things are very historically accurate, but if they are they tell much more of a defiant Jesus Christ instructing His people to be as much of a nuisance to occupiers as they can be, not of a weak lamb for the slaughter telling us to hasten our deaths and humiliations. how could Christianity have survived if it was a death cult? how could it have led to the crusades and the reconquista if it called for total pacifism and submission?
There’s a book series called sword of truth, overall it’s terrible. One interesting idea is the hero kills someone after he forgives them. He understands who they are and what lead them to be evil but still knows he has to kill them. His sword glows white when this type of thing happens instead of the usually anger red.
Not to be a dick about it, but you are not. No one is as good as they think they are. This is vainity on your part. We're all sinners and only stand a chance because Jesus died for us.
Fr. Mike Schmidt was made a video talking about the miracle of guilt. How God made it possible for you to know you are acting against God and can correct yourself. And to Catholics that correction is Confession.
As far as forgiveness it's a very difficult thing. But when you really think about it, what good does it good to just let hate fester inside with no recourse for it? At some point that righteous anger becomes plain old anger and it makes a person angry.
Forgiveness requires contrition and it upsets me how many people who call themselves Christian overlook this. Forgiving an unrepentant murderer is simply someone being weak and conflict averse. It is not virtuous.
Welcome to the club. Stalin was a monster, but he wasn't wrong with his "opiate of the masses" observation. Christianity is just the codification of becoming the most principled corpse in a mass grave. And that was even before it was corrupted into the "Judeo-Christian" abomination it is today.
I'm done turning the other cheek. I'm done forgiving my enemies, whether they show contrition or not. Their only purpose in life is now to serve as a warning to others in the future. We cannot coexist, and no amount of praying about it is going to change that fact. God isn't going to fall from the sky to save us.
And since our "representatives" are all a bunch of spineless cucks who only care about Israel, our government isn't going to save us either. I will leave it to your imagination where that leaves us.
I heard it from others interpretation like the guy they had on Lotus Eaters today that it was more said as its forgiveness in the terms of vengeance so the justice system is allowed to be impartial and give the punishment to fit the crime.
Me? I'm not Christian, I'm atheist but I respect Christian morality and culture. But I'm VERY flexible in terms of what I would do to win and very Machiavellian so I'd tell Christians this:
There are many what I like to term 'bastards' that don't mind getting their hands dirty to keep YOURS clean. The unfortunate thing is in order to maintain a high trust society, you need both strict border control and people capable of doing the action needed, like capital punishment, to keep out those that would corrupt it. Having these people that are on your side but don't play by all your rules and morals is one of the things that keeps this functional.
Forgiveness requires genuine repentance. The idea that Erika "forgives" an (almost certainly) unrepentant killer doesn't make any sense. It's baffling to me how many Christians (or at least people who wear that label) don't understand this basic principle of Christianity.
God offers forgiveness for all of us, but in order to be forgiven we have to admit we've done wrong and do our best to change that behavior. The killer has done neither.
Deism! We have cookies 😄 & almost no "rules" at all.
It's really a philosophy but it used to be very popular. Many of the Founding Fathers were Deists as well as being Christians.
Essentially: Deists believe in God, just one, who created the Universe on purpose & with a plan. He probably doesn't interfere much since the Big Bang or whatever mechanism He used. Freewill is essential, ofc.
Forgiveness is a personal thing. On that level, when dealing with the unrepentant, it's more about letting go of something and not letting it eat you up inside forever for no reason, than about making a doormat of yourself. It does not remove the need for justice.
Kirk, and Christianity in general, have not won politically or socially in decades.
Christianity is not a political or social movement. It's a religion. Its goal is to save souls.
So what 'good' is the forgiveness doing except enabling our own demise?
It saves our souls from hate and it serves as an example to those whose hearts are open to a better way of life.
my mom, who is very devoutly Catholic, has been calling me to go to confession and confess my sins. This is really driving me up the wall because I, a mostly innocent man, have to be a guilt ridden wretch
It's about love, not guilt. You don't write like someone who loves God. This is the main problem with you. You also care too much about politics: you should be beyond them.
Christianity to me is so repulsively cucked that I can't in good conscience consider myself a Christian. I don't know what I can replace it with, but almost anything is better at this point. Prove me wrong.
Politics will never be fixed. It has been a struggle in every generation, and every generation considered it just as crucial as this one.
The world will always be burning and you can't improve things without helping yourself first. If you're coming at it with bitterness, you'll only make things worse. Focus on your soul and psychological perfection first.
I already said in my post that making me feel guilty while evil wins is incredibly repulsive, so I don't have a lot of patience for just repeating that line of thinking back at me.
I was raised Catholic and tried to engage with it honestly multiple times in my life, especially recently as something in opposition to the left, but it just keeps losing me with all this cuckery. Kirk was a faithful servant and it got him killed. Trump is not and he's still alive and winning. I'm just calling it like I see it.
but it's not about guilt. it's not about lying down in the fetal position, sucking your thumb and going "waaaa, eve ate the apple and i didn't return the shopping cart." it's about humility and modesty, and realizing that at your very best you're still a human with flaws and sinful animal instincts, some that you've probably acted upon like snapping at a loved one when irritated or defaming your allies here by calling them queers.
note that in the previous paragraph, other people who are undoubtedly evil don't even factor in. you being modest and honest with God about your failings, which exist in significant number even if you aren't a murderer or rapist, doesn't directly interface with how you should act with extreme external evil. there's 24 hours in the day - the perfect Christian doesn't pray 12 hours for himself and 12 hours for his enemies, but prays for both for an hour then spends the rest sending his enemies (who better be God's enemies as well...) to their maker for a hearing.
approaching things from this angle we arrive not to a guilt-ridden wreck who forgives his enemies then is afraid he's going to hell because he glanced at a woman's breasts on the street once, but to a man who, aware of all humanity's sinful instincts, can suss out who will overcome their sin and who won't. it's not your right to take a life, but enough consultation with God, if you and Him trust each other enough, can get a temporary permit from up above.
It’s Churchian nonsense. There are two forms of forgiveness in the Bible, the mortal and the Divine. The Divine forgiveness is absolution and that is Gods alone. The mortal forgiveness is to not hold hatred in your heart. That means act justly without anger and judge righteously, that is what is meant by forgive trespasses and turn the other cheek. This whole “victims” granting absolution is actual heresy because they are granting themselves divine right. So much of the Bible is bastardized by bad translation, much like meekness.
This is the correct take here. In properly practiced Christianity, "forgiving" an enemy means giving them a chance for the last rites before you cut off their head.
there are also theories that Jesus was referring to some custom or other where Romans backhanded people they saw as beneath them, so turning the other cheek would be challenging them to slap you with the palm like an equal.
same for the "extra mile". Romans were supposedly limited to forcing civilians to carry their gear one or two miles only, and going further could then incur punishment for the Roman.
i'm not sure if these 2 things are very historically accurate, but if they are they tell much more of a defiant Jesus Christ instructing His people to be as much of a nuisance to occupiers as they can be, not of a weak lamb for the slaughter telling us to hasten our deaths and humiliations. how could Christianity have survived if it was a death cult? how could it have led to the crusades and the reconquista if it called for total pacifism and submission?
There’s a book series called sword of truth, overall it’s terrible. One interesting idea is the hero kills someone after he forgives them. He understands who they are and what lead them to be evil but still knows he has to kill them. His sword glows white when this type of thing happens instead of the usually anger red.
Not to be a dick about it, but you are not. No one is as good as they think they are. This is vainity on your part. We're all sinners and only stand a chance because Jesus died for us.
Fr. Mike Schmidt was made a video talking about the miracle of guilt. How God made it possible for you to know you are acting against God and can correct yourself. And to Catholics that correction is Confession.
As far as forgiveness it's a very difficult thing. But when you really think about it, what good does it good to just let hate fester inside with no recourse for it? At some point that righteous anger becomes plain old anger and it makes a person angry.
Speak for yourself, queer. I feel great.
Forgiving someone doesn't absolve them from their crime, if the punishment is capital punishment so be it.
Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar and to God the things that are God's one should mistake one for the other
She should have just said “I forgive you”, that is her duty as a Christian. Leave the punishment for the crime to the state.
For those against capital punishment, the shooter sure believed in capital punishment so you should honor his wishes.
Forgiveness requires contrition and it upsets me how many people who call themselves Christian overlook this. Forgiving an unrepentant murderer is simply someone being weak and conflict averse. It is not virtuous.
Welcome to the club. Stalin was a monster, but he wasn't wrong with his "opiate of the masses" observation. Christianity is just the codification of becoming the most principled corpse in a mass grave. And that was even before it was corrupted into the "Judeo-Christian" abomination it is today.
I'm done turning the other cheek. I'm done forgiving my enemies, whether they show contrition or not. Their only purpose in life is now to serve as a warning to others in the future. We cannot coexist, and no amount of praying about it is going to change that fact. God isn't going to fall from the sky to save us.
And since our "representatives" are all a bunch of spineless cucks who only care about Israel, our government isn't going to save us either. I will leave it to your imagination where that leaves us.
I heard it from others interpretation like the guy they had on Lotus Eaters today that it was more said as its forgiveness in the terms of vengeance so the justice system is allowed to be impartial and give the punishment to fit the crime.
Me? I'm not Christian, I'm atheist but I respect Christian morality and culture. But I'm VERY flexible in terms of what I would do to win and very Machiavellian so I'd tell Christians this:
There are many what I like to term 'bastards' that don't mind getting their hands dirty to keep YOURS clean. The unfortunate thing is in order to maintain a high trust society, you need both strict border control and people capable of doing the action needed, like capital punishment, to keep out those that would corrupt it. Having these people that are on your side but don't play by all your rules and morals is one of the things that keeps this functional.
Forgiveness requires genuine repentance. The idea that Erika "forgives" an (almost certainly) unrepentant killer doesn't make any sense. It's baffling to me how many Christians (or at least people who wear that label) don't understand this basic principle of Christianity.
God offers forgiveness for all of us, but in order to be forgiven we have to admit we've done wrong and do our best to change that behavior. The killer has done neither.
Deism! We have cookies 😄 & almost no "rules" at all.
It's really a philosophy but it used to be very popular. Many of the Founding Fathers were Deists as well as being Christians.
Essentially: Deists believe in God, just one, who created the Universe on purpose & with a plan. He probably doesn't interfere much since the Big Bang or whatever mechanism He used. Freewill is essential, ofc.
Forgiveness is a personal thing. On that level, when dealing with the unrepentant, it's more about letting go of something and not letting it eat you up inside forever for no reason, than about making a doormat of yourself. It does not remove the need for justice.
Christianity is not a political or social movement. It's a religion. Its goal is to save souls.
It saves our souls from hate and it serves as an example to those whose hearts are open to a better way of life.
It's about love, not guilt. You don't write like someone who loves God. This is the main problem with you. You also care too much about politics: you should be beyond them.
Fulton sheen tells it best if you care to hear it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6bx7v5K_KU
I'll watch the video.
I hate politics but it is currently ruining my life and the lives of everyone around me. I have to care about it until it's fixed.
Politics will never be fixed. It has been a struggle in every generation, and every generation considered it just as crucial as this one.
The world will always be burning and you can't improve things without helping yourself first. If you're coming at it with bitterness, you'll only make things worse. Focus on your soul and psychological perfection first.
Because I'm trying to start a dialogue with people I consider allies.
Sometimes dialogue is mean.
I already said in my post that making me feel guilty while evil wins is incredibly repulsive, so I don't have a lot of patience for just repeating that line of thinking back at me.
I was raised Catholic and tried to engage with it honestly multiple times in my life, especially recently as something in opposition to the left, but it just keeps losing me with all this cuckery. Kirk was a faithful servant and it got him killed. Trump is not and he's still alive and winning. I'm just calling it like I see it.
Or alternatively you're just a dickhead
but it's not about guilt. it's not about lying down in the fetal position, sucking your thumb and going "waaaa, eve ate the apple and i didn't return the shopping cart." it's about humility and modesty, and realizing that at your very best you're still a human with flaws and sinful animal instincts, some that you've probably acted upon like snapping at a loved one when irritated or defaming your allies here by calling them queers.
note that in the previous paragraph, other people who are undoubtedly evil don't even factor in. you being modest and honest with God about your failings, which exist in significant number even if you aren't a murderer or rapist, doesn't directly interface with how you should act with extreme external evil. there's 24 hours in the day - the perfect Christian doesn't pray 12 hours for himself and 12 hours for his enemies, but prays for both for an hour then spends the rest sending his enemies (who better be God's enemies as well...) to their maker for a hearing.
approaching things from this angle we arrive not to a guilt-ridden wreck who forgives his enemies then is afraid he's going to hell because he glanced at a woman's breasts on the street once, but to a man who, aware of all humanity's sinful instincts, can suss out who will overcome their sin and who won't. it's not your right to take a life, but enough consultation with God, if you and Him trust each other enough, can get a temporary permit from up above.