Yes and it has been massively unpopular with his base every time. We could fully automate every farm in the country for the cost of illegals over just 5 years.
Farming is massively subsidized. Also 96% of farms are family owned, they lend lease from corporations for seeds and equipment, it would be zero difference to do so with automated farming.
Farming is massively subsidized because food insecurity is one of the fastest ways to collapse a nation. It's in the interest of the country to put a thumb on the scale of food prices to dampen out the boom-bust nature of agriculture.
In exchange farmers give up the ability to set prices. If farmers were allowed to set their own prices shit would get wild in drought or flood years.
I don't understand why food can't be subject to market forces like everything else. It's not like we will really run out. There are enough cans. You'd just have shortages of particular things. There is more to the policy than security for us.
The scale of farms you're imagining of all died in the S&L crisis in the 80's.
The mathematical average family farm today is pushing 450 acres, but I know from working for the USDA that figure is VERY bimodal. You've got a LOT of quote-unquote farms that are half-quarter sections (80 acres), and likewise a LOT of ACTUAL family farms that are plowing 2-3 full sections (1000+ acres).
The quote-unquote farms are your hobby ranch operations; horses, sheep, llamas & alpacas, etc. They are farms only insofar as taxes are concerned. Often they're just KHOMA projects. Hobby vineyards and orchards, the sort that make most of their money hosting weddings also fall into this area.
It's a euphemism in the banking industry for situations where a high earning husband subsidizes a wife's money losing enterprise. If you see a restaurant that deals primarily in cupcakes that doesn't go bankrupt in 6 months, 100% guaranteed it's a KHOMA operation.
Not true. Just FYI, new generation small, cheap robotics (think drones etc) are much more scalable than Very Large Machines.
You can, for example, have crop dusting done by a swarm of agricultural drones rather than a crop dusting plane. Or a robot the size of a car trailer that will weed a single row of potatoes or beats with spot spraying of herbicide and / or high voltage localized burning.
If you want I can discuss the changes that must happen to the US agribusiness landscape to allow such a robotics revolution.
The major hurdles to this kind of innovation are political and regulatory, rather than technical.
I want them out, but I also understand farms need their slaves for now until we wean them off, or create a visa system where they pay their share and get out after the season is over.
The businesses/industries are struggling the most usually are the same ones being interfered with the most by the government.
I present to you:
Agriculture
Meat production
Insurance
Housing
Automotive
Whatever the government fucks with, suffers. You want housing to be cheap? Get the government out of it. You want farming to be cheap? Get the government out of it.
I'm not saying NO regulations but I am saying a lot of shit can be done away with. So when we look at why does a business operate with illegals? Well, what expenses are being imposed on them unnecessarily?
So many businesses do stupid things because they are required to by law.
I agree, pulling shit out of my head I imagine companies set up hiring and staffing agencies in south america, applicants go and apply there, those in good standing and work history gets priority. Company request x amount of workers for x amount of pay, agency gets a cut, deposit like bail is established, season or work term ends, worker gets a ticket from agency to return home and repeat process. If they don't return, government keeps deposit and ICE is sent to look for them, they are barred from program.
Incentivize by giving them lower remittances than illegals. They work 3-8 months in the states, go home and live like kings or get kidnapped for having some money or whatever.
My understanding is that ICE has arrest quotas to meet so they started taking this low hanging fruit. Trump had to tell them to back off of that and made public comments defending the decision to let these illegals stay here.
just strap a .25" black powder pipe gun to the drones, no need for fancy, expensive and heavy net guns when a cheap trip to the hardware store gives all you need. As a bonus the fear of an unclean death at the rotors of these drones would encourage surrender and self deportation.
Arguably Trump, and probably a good many of us, want the most dangerous and insidious ones out first. Fruit pickers gotta go, but maybe they can go last.
The easy pickings would be at the food and meat processing facilities. In my line of work I've been at some of those places where they don't even bother putting up signs in English inside the buildings, it's all either pictograms or wetback-ese.
I never knew about it to be honest. It's news to me and I'm pissed.
We don't want agriculture exceptions or Indians or H1B or anything. We want a hard reset back to 1980. And if he's not the man for the job then we need someone who will be and it sure as fuck won't be Vance with his Indian wife.
I can concede farming. Those jobs are hard to fill even with big incentives. Like it or not, we all like cheaper food.
Hospitality though, those should be American jobs. They should pay a bit more in wages and hire locally. Especially in customer-facing roles. It always feels stupid to me that you travel to the US, and experience.. Guatamalan or Honduran culture at the hotel.
I'm 100% on board with deregulation. Both of my grandfathers were farmers. It's kind of a nightmare, even decades ago. One ended up selling everything. The other tried switching over to ranching for a few years, then just went an easier route and grew soy beans because of all of the extra govt incentives.
You're right, whoever is advising Trump is right, get rid of illegal aliens and you could be facing "rotting fruits in field while prices soar at the market" messaging from the left come fall that'll carry over to the mid-terms. But it's also more insidious.
The farm is the excuse, the hotels and service jobs are the jobs Americans can fill. I wish for higher wages for semi-skilled service jobs that offers a livable wage with work life balance but getting rid of the illegals won't make that happen, they’ll never let labor get scarce enough for wages to rise. This is proof of that.
Their end game is automation, just stalling till they get it, by the time they get automation all of the sudden both sides of the establishment are going to be cool with mass deportations.
Labor rates were rising very well in Trump's first term until the COVID lockdowns, the only time I had seen it in my lifetime. Even kept going at the low end jobs(fast food, groceries, etc) in my state in the summer when lockdowns first lifted here(early lift state)
Fruit can rot. All the staple foods are machine harvestable. If some gen-z tiktok thot doesn't get their fucking avocado toast I'm not going to shed a tear.
Why the hell are hotel workers more essential than any number of other jobs? I assume he means the cleaning ladies, which are in the same boat as any other commercial building cleaners.
I could maybe see the farm workers(Though I suspect the outbreaks of E coli on vegetables would decrease if we didn't)
Can't call it corruption since he is doing the same for his own competition too, just obvious he is favoring what he knows. Like how politicians from Texas are easier on the oil industry regulations, or politicians form Iowa are on ethanol.
The right wing folks who have an ability to think critically are just pointing out that Trump isn’t who he claimed to be AGAIN, that his worshippers deserve the “fell for it again award”, because Trump almost never really makes good on his promises, and somehow his worshippers still come up with excuses for his failures, or they say “we knew he wasn’t going to do that, he told us he wasn’t gonna do it a long time ago….but he’s still better than Kermallah!”.
The long history of this is that AgriBiz wants temporary workers, and the US has had temporary workers for many decades, even prior to Regan. The problem is that those temporary workers are being converted to illegals.
I don't like it, but if we can at least force the temporary workers to stay legal, then we can at least control the immigration.
All that being said, there's no issue with just fucking automating instead of using laborers.
It wasn’t his position “the whole time”….prior to the election he promised mass deportations of illegals, some would say that’s the main reason why he was (s)elected as president, personally I think he was ZOG’s choice so, he would’ve became president whether he was the most popular choice or not. But yeah, until after the election, he didn’t specify only some illegals like he did after the election, when he started saying things like we are going to focus on “the criminal migrants” while completely ignoring the fact that they’re ALL criminals if they came here illegally. Then Trump started saying, we have to slow down the deportations and give amnesty to the illegals who work in businesses that lobby me for special privileges, not his exact words but that’s what he meant.
Yes and it has been massively unpopular with his base every time. We could fully automate every farm in the country for the cost of illegals over just 5 years.
Automation is only viable for large corporate farms. Small family farms are hit hardest.
Probably in short term I would make farm work untaxable to support American workers doing it.
Farming is massively subsidized. Also 96% of farms are family owned, they lend lease from corporations for seeds and equipment, it would be zero difference to do so with automated farming.
Farming is massively subsidized because food insecurity is one of the fastest ways to collapse a nation. It's in the interest of the country to put a thumb on the scale of food prices to dampen out the boom-bust nature of agriculture.
In exchange farmers give up the ability to set prices. If farmers were allowed to set their own prices shit would get wild in drought or flood years.
I don't understand why food can't be subject to market forces like everything else. It's not like we will really run out. There are enough cans. You'd just have shortages of particular things. There is more to the policy than security for us.
That is such a slack jawed take on the topic that I'm actually in awe.
The scale of farms you're imagining of all died in the S&L crisis in the 80's.
The mathematical average family farm today is pushing 450 acres, but I know from working for the USDA that figure is VERY bimodal. You've got a LOT of quote-unquote farms that are half-quarter sections (80 acres), and likewise a LOT of ACTUAL family farms that are plowing 2-3 full sections (1000+ acres).
The quote-unquote farms are your hobby ranch operations; horses, sheep, llamas & alpacas, etc. They are farms only insofar as taxes are concerned. Often they're just KHOMA projects. Hobby vineyards and orchards, the sort that make most of their money hosting weddings also fall into this area.
What is KHOMA?
"KEEP HER OFF MY ASS" money.
It's a euphemism in the banking industry for situations where a high earning husband subsidizes a wife's money losing enterprise. If you see a restaurant that deals primarily in cupcakes that doesn't go bankrupt in 6 months, 100% guaranteed it's a KHOMA operation.
Gotcha.
Khoma is a progressive and alternative metal musical group from Sweden. Founded by Jan Jämte, Johannes Persson and Fredrik Kihlberg in 2002
Then we can subsidize automation for smaller farmers. We can make it work. We have the resources.
Somehow, someway, small family farms operated in America before both automation AND illegal slave laborers.
Not true. Just FYI, new generation small, cheap robotics (think drones etc) are much more scalable than Very Large Machines.
You can, for example, have crop dusting done by a swarm of agricultural drones rather than a crop dusting plane. Or a robot the size of a car trailer that will weed a single row of potatoes or beats with spot spraying of herbicide and / or high voltage localized burning.
If you want I can discuss the changes that must happen to the US agribusiness landscape to allow such a robotics revolution.
The major hurdles to this kind of innovation are political and regulatory, rather than technical.
Maybe TACO is right.
He couldn't stick to his guns on raiding employers for even one month after Stephen Miller's Home Depot comments.
source from ABC news
I want them out, but I also understand farms need their slaves for now until we wean them off, or create a visa system where they pay their share and get out after the season is over.
We’ve had H2A visas for decades now, there’s no excuse for farmers other than laziness and wanting to have slave labor.
The businesses/industries are struggling the most usually are the same ones being interfered with the most by the government.
I present to you: Agriculture Meat production
Insurance Housing Automotive
Whatever the government fucks with, suffers. You want housing to be cheap? Get the government out of it. You want farming to be cheap? Get the government out of it.
I'm not saying NO regulations but I am saying a lot of shit can be done away with. So when we look at why does a business operate with illegals? Well, what expenses are being imposed on them unnecessarily?
So many businesses do stupid things because they are required to by law.
he said take them out (deport) then bring them back (H2A Visa) no reason for seasonal workers to stay around permanently OR be illegally undocumented.
I agree, pulling shit out of my head I imagine companies set up hiring and staffing agencies in south america, applicants go and apply there, those in good standing and work history gets priority. Company request x amount of workers for x amount of pay, agency gets a cut, deposit like bail is established, season or work term ends, worker gets a ticket from agency to return home and repeat process. If they don't return, government keeps deposit and ICE is sent to look for them, they are barred from program.
Incentivize by giving them lower remittances than illegals. They work 3-8 months in the states, go home and live like kings or get kidnapped for having some money or whatever.
My understanding is that ICE has arrest quotas to meet so they started taking this low hanging fruit. Trump had to tell them to back off of that and made public comments defending the decision to let these illegals stay here.
Why shouldn't the low haning fruit be picked first?
They should.
I just imagine drones with net guns flying over fields taking out spics left, right and centre.
It should be like fishing with the capture net in Monster Hunter.
just strap a .25" black powder pipe gun to the drones, no need for fancy, expensive and heavy net guns when a cheap trip to the hardware store gives all you need. As a bonus the fear of an unclean death at the rotors of these drones would encourage surrender and self deportation.
Arguably Trump, and probably a good many of us, want the most dangerous and insidious ones out first. Fruit pickers gotta go, but maybe they can go last.
the fruit pickers are easiest to find though.
I think the farm workers are the high hanging fruit. Farms are spread out. Whereas illegals concentrated in a dozen cmetro areas are easier.
The easy pickings would be at the food and meat processing facilities. In my line of work I've been at some of those places where they don't even bother putting up signs in English inside the buildings, it's all either pictograms or wetback-ese.
I never knew about it to be honest. It's news to me and I'm pissed.
We don't want agriculture exceptions or Indians or H1B or anything. We want a hard reset back to 1980. And if he's not the man for the job then we need someone who will be and it sure as fuck won't be Vance with his Indian wife.
I can concede farming. Those jobs are hard to fill even with big incentives. Like it or not, we all like cheaper food.
Hospitality though, those should be American jobs. They should pay a bit more in wages and hire locally. Especially in customer-facing roles. It always feels stupid to me that you travel to the US, and experience.. Guatamalan or Honduran culture at the hotel.
-- Like it or not, we all like cheaper food.
Then get rid of the provisions in the farm bill that are specifically there to drive up the cost of food.
I'm 100% on board with deregulation. Both of my grandfathers were farmers. It's kind of a nightmare, even decades ago. One ended up selling everything. The other tried switching over to ranching for a few years, then just went an easier route and grew soy beans because of all of the extra govt incentives.
You're right, whoever is advising Trump is right, get rid of illegal aliens and you could be facing "rotting fruits in field while prices soar at the market" messaging from the left come fall that'll carry over to the mid-terms. But it's also more insidious.
The farm is the excuse, the hotels and service jobs are the jobs Americans can fill. I wish for higher wages for semi-skilled service jobs that offers a livable wage with work life balance but getting rid of the illegals won't make that happen, they’ll never let labor get scarce enough for wages to rise. This is proof of that.
Their end game is automation, just stalling till they get it, by the time they get automation all of the sudden both sides of the establishment are going to be cool with mass deportations.
Labor rates were rising very well in Trump's first term until the COVID lockdowns, the only time I had seen it in my lifetime. Even kept going at the low end jobs(fast food, groceries, etc) in my state in the summer when lockdowns first lifted here(early lift state)
Fruit can rot. All the staple foods are machine harvestable. If some gen-z tiktok thot doesn't get their fucking avocado toast I'm not going to shed a tear.
The Ines coming here working these jobs are simply low priority. Get the criminals and the leeches first then we can deal with these
Zognald is anti American and Pro Israel.
Why the hell are hotel workers more essential than any number of other jobs? I assume he means the cleaning ladies, which are in the same boat as any other commercial building cleaners.
I could maybe see the farm workers(Though I suspect the outbreaks of E coli on vegetables would decrease if we didn't)
Can't call it corruption since he is doing the same for his own competition too, just obvious he is favoring what he knows. Like how politicians from Texas are easier on the oil industry regulations, or politicians form Iowa are on ethanol.
The right wing folks who have an ability to think critically are just pointing out that Trump isn’t who he claimed to be AGAIN, that his worshippers deserve the “fell for it again award”, because Trump almost never really makes good on his promises, and somehow his worshippers still come up with excuses for his failures, or they say “we knew he wasn’t going to do that, he told us he wasn’t gonna do it a long time ago….but he’s still better than Kermallah!”.
The long history of this is that AgriBiz wants temporary workers, and the US has had temporary workers for many decades, even prior to Regan. The problem is that those temporary workers are being converted to illegals.
I don't like it, but if we can at least force the temporary workers to stay legal, then we can at least control the immigration.
All that being said, there's no issue with just fucking automating instead of using laborers.
So it shall be written, so it shall be done.
It wasn’t his position “the whole time”….prior to the election he promised mass deportations of illegals, some would say that’s the main reason why he was (s)elected as president, personally I think he was ZOG’s choice so, he would’ve became president whether he was the most popular choice or not. But yeah, until after the election, he didn’t specify only some illegals like he did after the election, when he started saying things like we are going to focus on “the criminal migrants” while completely ignoring the fact that they’re ALL criminals if they came here illegally. Then Trump started saying, we have to slow down the deportations and give amnesty to the illegals who work in businesses that lobby me for special privileges, not his exact words but that’s what he meant.
He's getting rid of the harsher criminals first, so they can get the smaller targets later.
But I'll get downvoted for keeping a cool head.