For anyone that supports trump over DeSantis, I hope you're at least honest enough to admit trump is going to come at DeSantis from the left on every single issue.
Will RDS's more conservative policy overcome a cult of personality around Trump?
The 2024 primary will be the biggest IQ test the GOP electorate has ever faced.
I will either be completely white-pilled or completely black-pilled about the intelligence of the GOP electorate depending on who they ultimately nominate for 2024.
I mean, that is classic Trump braggadocio. You know his heart is in the right place. RDS had some good things to say but then unfortunately backtracked a bit because Liz Cheney wasn't happy.
Trump is no 4D chess master, but his political instincts are pretty good.
I think he doesn't just think that people think war is bad, but that he thinks war is bad. And war is popular, not unpopular. That's one of the reasons American presidents almost invaribly start wars.
I wouldn't argue that, because then we'd always just move more towards perdition. But then again, that is what conservatism has done. The only thing it conserves is the profits of Goldman Sachs and Raytheon.
All the anti-Trump criticisms are correct. But... is there someone better? And how do you account for Trump not supporting the GOP nominee or running third party? Like him or not, he's the only choice.
Trump is a narcissist and constantly makes bombastic statements. Automatically assigning the best intent to them is an act of mind reading that I will not engage in.
RDS's policy on Ukraine was not backtracked to please Liz Cheney. That is an absurd statement. He basically clarified his verbiage on whether the conflict was a border skirmish. He merely clarified that he thinks Russia was in the wrong for invading Ukraine in his second statement.
People on our forum have certain views about the Ukraine conflict that the larger primary electorate which has many boomer cons don't share.
RDS was likely trying to clarify his stance for that reason.
Trump is a narcissist and constantly makes bombastic statements.
Yes.
Automatically assigning the best intent to them is an act of mind reading that I will not engage in.
Oh, you should never assign good intent to any politician. They are all bad. Still, I know that Trump is anti-neocon, while I think DeSantis is adjusting himself to being one. It's good that he is, don't get me wrong, but that can easily change when he is in office (while Trump can get rolled by his men like he was in his first term).
RDS's policy on Ukraine was not backtracked to please Liz Cheney. That is an absurd statement
It was half a joke. He backtracked a bit in response to criticism from the likes of Lindsey Graham. The problem is not just the substance, but that he looked weak in appearing to backtrack in response to criticism. What I like about him is that he punches anyone who attacks him, rather than surrendering.
He merely clarified that he thinks Russia was in the wrong for invading Ukraine in his second statement.
He also made childish statements like "Russia is a gas station", but to his credit, he made those as arguments for why Russia should not be regarded as a threat.
People on our forum have certain views about the Ukraine conflict that the larger primary electorate which has many boomer cons don't share.
Correct. But I think that he struck the exact right cord in his first statement. And people may have opinions, but foreign policy generally ranks very low on the list of priorities, so those of you who have opinions that are outside the mainstream of the blob should do your absolute best to voice your opinions, as I know you do.
Ron DeSantis was a sort of neocon when he was in Congress. He supported the Libya intervention (as I unfortunately did), while he opposed the Syria nonsense. He attempted to pressure Obama into sending lethal arms to Ukraine (which Trump later did).
But now, Trump is sticking closer to his anti-neocon roots, refusing to be bullied by fake news CNN into saying that he hopes Ukraine wins. DeSantis made some good statements to Tucker, but then undermined them a bit later on. On foreign policy, it seems that Trump is better.
But both are better than the GOP used to be. Whether you support Trump or DeSantis or neither, anyone who is anti-neocon should be happy that these are the choices.
I'd only support Trump over DeSantis for president, because I don't want DeSantis to run for president. He actually seems to be doing good in Florida, but I don't see him getting anything done as president. Not because of him, but because all the rest of the fed would be against him.
That's where I'm at. I didn't stump for DeSantis' second term only to have him get bored of Governor midway through and go after higher office. Exploratory committees are fine, but if he actually declares he's running I'm going to be pretty upset at his abandoning his duty.
Meanwhile Trump definitely already abandoned his duty. I wish he'd just accept that his inaction on the left gave them not only literally everything they wanted but emboldened them like no one has ever before, as is usually the case with half measures.
I don't see him coming from the Left at every issue, and I also see DeSantis and his backers coming from the Left as well. I'm not surprised when the establishment GOP is pushing hard the claim that "electability" means "being a Jeb Bush conservative" to any and all demographics and voters. Which is the same arguments I'm hearing from the UK's Conservative Party regarding the National Conservatism Conference.
Andrew Cuomo killed 50,000 people in acts of negligent homicide that he desperately covered-up (putting Covid patients with uninfected nursing home residents), and was removed by the Democratic Party under the guise of "Italian man touches woman's faces" in order to protect the underlying government structure, while having the political capital to remove him without Lee Zeldin being publicly attack Cuomo on it during the election. So no, Trump's claim here is bullshit.
But even this isn't an attack from the Left, it's him saying Cuomo did a better job, meaning that DeSantis is so garbage that basically all Republicans and most Democrats did better.
I'm not surprised when the establishment GOP is pushing hard the claim that "electability" means "being a Jeb Bush conservative" to any and all demographics and voters.
lol
But even this isn't an attack from the Left, it's him saying Cuomo did a better job,
So...absolutely an attack from the left, supporting a dem over a fairly good conservative.
He's targeting a competitor. Feel free to remember that Trump supporters went from "Lyin' Ted" to "Lion Ted" as Ted Cruz improved his political position to lean more populist.
I agree. Unfortunately, basically everyone who's running for US president is doing it because as popular as the populist right is, it's not entirely tolerated within any institution.
He lost a lot of support among white nationalist types. To the extent he has any, it's either kosher white identity types, out of desperation, hoping he will shake thing up (essentially by accident), or just being too new to those politics to understand things.
When you are used to every single choice on the ballot being 100% against your interests, someone being only like 80% is a champion. Especially if you think the long game is that, regardless of said politician's intentions, a lot of their stated goals will be first steps towards your desired outcomes.
Its not hard to see why they went to bat for him when you consider politics outside of pure black/white binary on choices.
The only options you have for 2024 are Biden or RDS. Even if Trump becomes the nominee for the GOP, he is not capable of winning another general election.
The elections in America are really not different from Hong kong elections as in the candidates are already all prechosen and you are just choosing between one puppet or the other puppet but the overlord always stays the same.
Im not stopping you from supporting the obviously better puppet in fact i encourage it considering the utter disaster Biden has been, but i am just ranting my frustration a bit.
But don't you see, the DNC and the GOP choosing their candidates for us to vote for is how it has to be. We just have to go along with what these people beholden to no one, and showed many times they will go against the people's wishes, want!
That's where he permanently lost me. Ron could have come out as Rhonda, and I would've assumed it was a very weird long con gag, but flying overseas to violate the 1st Amendment in writing - hard pass.
If Trump actually pushes this same gaslighting again about Ron DeSantis's COVID response versus Cuomo's COVID response on the primary debate stage, he will be absolutely humiliated on stage by DeSantis.
All RDS supporters including me humbly welcome former President Trump back to Twitter.
It will be the best in kind contribution to DeSantis 2024.
I'm not sure you should. RDS needs Trump voters. And this sort of crazy might dissuade some. Trump's crazy convinced a lot of people that Mike Pence had the right to invalidate the election, which is of course nonsense.
This is not good for anyone.
Nothing can harm Trump more than his own insane statements attacking RDS on baseless grounds.
If you are interested in "harming" Trump, then I suggest your priorities may be misplaced.
I don't want "harm" to DeSantis, which is part of the reason I don't want Trump on Twitter.
For anyone that supports trump over DeSantis, I hope you're at least honest enough to admit trump is going to come at DeSantis from the left on every single issue.
I'm curious how immigration will playout between the two of them.
I guarantee that Trump will be to the left of RDS on this crucial issue.
Trump previously said in 2019 that he wanted the highest level of legal immigration.
https://archive.ph/SXob1
Meanwhile DeSantis's position on immigration is this. https://twitter.com/ChristinaPushaw/status/1659012556814528515
I never forgot Trump saying that. I want to see how/if he walks it back.
He will likely double down on it.
Trump is approaching the primaries with a mindset of never having the same position as RDS on any issue.
This doesn't bode well at all for his stances on every key issue.
That will be interesting.
Will RDS's more conservative policy overcome a cult of personality around Trump?
The 2024 primary will be the biggest IQ test the GOP electorate has ever faced.
I will either be completely white-pilled or completely black-pilled about the intelligence of the GOP electorate depending on who they ultimately nominate for 2024.
I wouldn't base my mood on what the GOP voters or politicians do. That sounds bad for mental health.
Almost. Trump has a better policy on foreign policy than DS.
Trump's policy on Ukraine is a meme.
He is claiming he will end the war in 24 hours and won't elaborate on anything.
The man couldn't finish the wall in 4 years but he is going to end this war in less than a day?
Press X to doubt.
I mean, that is classic Trump braggadocio. You know his heart is in the right place. RDS had some good things to say but then unfortunately backtracked a bit because Liz Cheney wasn't happy.
Every high stakes Trump foreign policy move was a smashing success. I believe him.
Exactly.
Trump is no 4D chess master, but his political instincts are pretty good.
I think he doesn't just think that people think war is bad, but that he thinks war is bad. And war is popular, not unpopular. That's one of the reasons American presidents almost invaribly start wars.
I wouldn't argue that, because then we'd always just move more towards perdition. But then again, that is what conservatism has done. The only thing it conserves is the profits of Goldman Sachs and Raytheon.
All the anti-Trump criticisms are correct. But... is there someone better? And how do you account for Trump not supporting the GOP nominee or running third party? Like him or not, he's the only choice.
Trump is a narcissist and constantly makes bombastic statements. Automatically assigning the best intent to them is an act of mind reading that I will not engage in.
RDS's policy on Ukraine was not backtracked to please Liz Cheney. That is an absurd statement. He basically clarified his verbiage on whether the conflict was a border skirmish. He merely clarified that he thinks Russia was in the wrong for invading Ukraine in his second statement.
People on our forum have certain views about the Ukraine conflict that the larger primary electorate which has many boomer cons don't share.
RDS was likely trying to clarify his stance for that reason.
Yes.
Oh, you should never assign good intent to any politician. They are all bad. Still, I know that Trump is anti-neocon, while I think DeSantis is adjusting himself to being one. It's good that he is, don't get me wrong, but that can easily change when he is in office (while Trump can get rolled by his men like he was in his first term).
It was half a joke. He backtracked a bit in response to criticism from the likes of Lindsey Graham. The problem is not just the substance, but that he looked weak in appearing to backtrack in response to criticism. What I like about him is that he punches anyone who attacks him, rather than surrendering.
He also made childish statements like "Russia is a gas station", but to his credit, he made those as arguments for why Russia should not be regarded as a threat.
Correct. But I think that he struck the exact right cord in his first statement. And people may have opinions, but foreign policy generally ranks very low on the list of priorities, so those of you who have opinions that are outside the mainstream of the blob should do your absolute best to voice your opinions, as I know you do.
Ur a meme
If you actually believe that Trump can magically end the Russia/Ukraine war in 24 hours, then you actually ride the short bus.
Feel free to elaborate.
Ron DeSantis was a sort of neocon when he was in Congress. He supported the Libya intervention (as I unfortunately did), while he opposed the Syria nonsense. He attempted to pressure Obama into sending lethal arms to Ukraine (which Trump later did).
But now, Trump is sticking closer to his anti-neocon roots, refusing to be bullied by fake news CNN into saying that he hopes Ukraine wins. DeSantis made some good statements to Tucker, but then undermined them a bit later on. On foreign policy, it seems that Trump is better.
But both are better than the GOP used to be. Whether you support Trump or DeSantis or neither, anyone who is anti-neocon should be happy that these are the choices.
Okay, like what?
Come on man, you know you have to provide sources for this shit.
You're really going to play the "SOURCE?" game when it's something that's widely known?
Well, clearly I don't know exactly what was said, so yes, I'd like a source (and how he 'undermined them').
Ah, I thought you were just trying to be annoying.
Here's his initial comment (very good): https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1635446265692532738
And here's his later comments: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/22/desantis-ukraine-calls-putin-war-criminal-00088460
I'd only support Trump over DeSantis for president, because I don't want DeSantis to run for president. He actually seems to be doing good in Florida, but I don't see him getting anything done as president. Not because of him, but because all the rest of the fed would be against him.
That's where I'm at. I didn't stump for DeSantis' second term only to have him get bored of Governor midway through and go after higher office. Exploratory committees are fine, but if he actually declares he's running I'm going to be pretty upset at his abandoning his duty.
Meanwhile Trump definitely already abandoned his duty. I wish he'd just accept that his inaction on the left gave them not only literally everything they wanted but emboldened them like no one has ever before, as is usually the case with half measures.
I don't see him coming from the Left at every issue, and I also see DeSantis and his backers coming from the Left as well. I'm not surprised when the establishment GOP is pushing hard the claim that "electability" means "being a Jeb Bush conservative" to any and all demographics and voters. Which is the same arguments I'm hearing from the UK's Conservative Party regarding the National Conservatism Conference.
Andrew Cuomo killed 50,000 people in acts of negligent homicide that he desperately covered-up (putting Covid patients with uninfected nursing home residents), and was removed by the Democratic Party under the guise of "Italian man touches woman's faces" in order to protect the underlying government structure, while having the political capital to remove him without Lee Zeldin being publicly attack Cuomo on it during the election. So no, Trump's claim here is bullshit.
But even this isn't an attack from the Left, it's him saying Cuomo did a better job, meaning that DeSantis is so garbage that basically all Republicans and most Democrats did better.
lol
So...absolutely an attack from the left, supporting a dem over a fairly good conservative.
Okay.
He's targeting a competitor. Feel free to remember that Trump supporters went from "Lyin' Ted" to "Lion Ted" as Ted Cruz improved his political position to lean more populist.
Yes, but I take umbrage with him going at people from the left. Especially for a position that isn't really popular on the right.
I agree. Unfortunately, basically everyone who's running for US president is doing it because as popular as the populist right is, it's not entirely tolerated within any institution.
i hate every person you named in your title. Ron Desentis isnt any better than Trump, he literally went to Israel to sign hate speech laws for America. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/ron-desantis-signs-bill-combat-hate-crimes-israel-rcna81799
President Trump was the most pro-Jewish and Zionist president in modern history.
I will never understand the anti-Israel/ anti Jew crowd rallying around Trump as your standard bearer.
People had overlooked that in the past because of his public positions on immigration, trade, and wars.
Still made no sense to me.
Trump is always pro Trump not pro White like this crowd yearns for.
He lost a lot of support among white nationalist types. To the extent he has any, it's either kosher white identity types, out of desperation, hoping he will shake thing up (essentially by accident), or just being too new to those politics to understand things.
Oh yeah, and there are also grifters.
Interesting assessment of this dynamic.
When you are used to every single choice on the ballot being 100% against your interests, someone being only like 80% is a champion. Especially if you think the long game is that, regardless of said politician's intentions, a lot of their stated goals will be first steps towards your desired outcomes.
Its not hard to see why they went to bat for him when you consider politics outside of pure black/white binary on choices.
thats why i said i hate every person you listed in your title
Okay?
So you rather have Biden?
The only options you have for 2024 are Biden or RDS. Even if Trump becomes the nominee for the GOP, he is not capable of winning another general election.
The elections in America are really not different from Hong kong elections as in the candidates are already all prechosen and you are just choosing between one puppet or the other puppet but the overlord always stays the same.
Im not stopping you from supporting the obviously better puppet in fact i encourage it considering the utter disaster Biden has been, but i am just ranting my frustration a bit.
But don't you see, the DNC and the GOP choosing their candidates for us to vote for is how it has to be. We just have to go along with what these people beholden to no one, and showed many times they will go against the people's wishes, want!
No they all suck . Paul Gosar is probably the only possible candidate that doesnt suck up to jews or israel.
That's where he permanently lost me. Ron could have come out as Rhonda, and I would've assumed it was a very weird long con gag, but flying overseas to violate the 1st Amendment in writing - hard pass.
I guess Trump has decided that killing the elderly in nursing homes is what successful COVID policy looks like in his eyes.
Goofy Ron DeSantis didn't even kill thousands of Trump voters. He is weak! Sad!
It is sad that he could eventually spiral to the point he says something similar to this about RDS.
As someone who lives in NY,
Who was told 2 days ago I needed to mask to get in for a doctor's appointment,
Who - multiple times per week - drives past multiple abandoned shops and restaurants which were shut down by covid lockdowns,
Who works at a college which only lifted the Covid shot requirements for students on April 14th of this year,
SCREW YOU TRUMP. STOP TELLING ME TO DISBELIEVE MY LYING EYES.
If Trump actually pushes this same gaslighting again about Ron DeSantis's COVID response versus Cuomo's COVID response on the primary debate stage, he will be absolutely humiliated on stage by DeSantis.
I'm guessing that Jared and Ivanka are the immigration "experts" advising him. Again.
Trump needs to retire to a lovely life of shit posting on social media and playing golf.
Supposedly they will have no involvement at all this time.
Florida is the 3rd most populous state, so that's kind of expected.
New York is the 4th most populous state.
Basically nothing we did amounted to anything. Mostly it was all just how fat and unhealthy people were when they got covid.
If you hate old people, then yes, because he killed 14,000 of them.
Thank God Trump is not on Twitter and no one cares about his stupid comments.
He is coming back to Twitter and he will make these dumb comments again.
He won't be able to resist making these retard comments in primary debates either unless he is afraid and won't attend any debates.
He is afraid.
And what makes you think he's coming back to Twitter? Hopefully not until after the primaries when he will be talking about 'Beautiful Ron'.
Trump's Truth Social exclusivity deal expires this June.
He will be most likely back on Twitter soon after that.
https://archive.ph/ONAlW
Ooooooh craaaaaaaaaaaap.
All RDS supporters including me humbly welcome former President Trump back to Twitter.
It will be the best in kind contribution to DeSantis 2024.
I want the entire GOP primary electorate to see what Trump is saying recently.
Nothing can harm Trump more than his own insane statements attacking RDS on baseless grounds.
I'm not sure you should. RDS needs Trump voters. And this sort of crazy might dissuade some. Trump's crazy convinced a lot of people that Mike Pence had the right to invalidate the election, which is of course nonsense.
This is not good for anyone.
If you are interested in "harming" Trump, then I suggest your priorities may be misplaced.
I don't want "harm" to DeSantis, which is part of the reason I don't want Trump on Twitter.
You are misinterpreting what I want.
I merely want the best conditions possible for a RDS nomination.
Trump being on Twitter harms the Trump 2024 campaign more than anything anyone can attack him on.
As someone who wants to win 2024, I primarily want to avoid a Trump 2024 nomination. He will tank the down-ballot races and also lose to Biden.
It is not at all about harming Trump personally.
It is about ensuring Trump harms his own reputation enough to the point that he loses a primary.