Should Americans not study European history and claim it as part of their cultural tradition because they had a revolution and created their own new form of government?
From a religious standpoint, Christians moved beyond the Jew and invited Jews to adopt the new law. Therefore Christianity is a superset of the old law, and saying "Judeo" is meaningless. And in a sense the Jews here are right: if they refuse to accept Christ, they aren't "Judeo-Christian". Why use the term at all?
From a historical/cultural standpoint, it's kind of subjective. Judeo-Christian is fine with me but I understand why others disagree, and again saying "Christian" already implies Jewish contributions to the empire. Greco-Roman (itself redundant) and Anglo are also accurate descriptors that you can combine with Christianity to describe pre-American culture. Even those leave out the pagan traditions that Christians coopted. It's still argued today how much Europe was shaped by Christian leaders vs. pagan traditions.
I for one absolutely recognize the Jewish contributions to Christianity. After all, if the Jews hadn't been so hellbent on persecuting and denying the Messiah and spitting in the face of the God they claim to worship, we wouldn't have Christianity to begin with.
So thank you, heretic, for your contributions to the true religion.
Catholicism isn't a Christian institution. Look up torture devices. Who made them? Catholics. Who molests children on a large scale? Catholics. Who says the pope is without sin, has authority over believers, still follows him despite the office of the pope murdering people for....reading the bible?, .
24 When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that a tumult was rising, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, “I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see to it.”
25 And all the people answered and said, “His blood be on us and on our children.”
The Talmud (/ˈtɑːlmʊd, -məd, ˈtæl-/; Hebrew: תַּלְמוּד Tálmūḏ) is the central text of Rabbinic Judaism and the primary source of Jewish religious law (halakha) and Jewish theology.[1][2] Until the advent of modernity, in nearly all Jewish communities, the Talmud was the centerpiece of Jewish cultural life and was foundational to "all Jewish thought and aspirations", serving also as "the guide for the daily life" of Jews.[3]
Only thing this got wrong is that the Talmud is still the centerpiece. While secular jews may not study Talmud, the teachings of the talmud have been inextricably carved into the hearts and minds of every jewish community.
Its not. And it is not the "law" as it was a bunch of discussions between Rabbis at the time of things that happened at their communities during that time.
Paul's views on the Jews are complex, but he is generally regarded as the first person to make the claim that by not accepting claims of Jesus' divinity, Jews disqualified themselves from salvation. Christians quickly adopted Paul's views.
For most of Christian history, supersessionism has been the mainstream interpretation of the New Testament of all three major historical traditions within Christianity – Orthodox, Roman Catholic and Protestant. The text most often evident in favor of the supersessionist view is Hebrews 8:13: "In speaking of 'a new covenant' [Jer. 31.31-32] he has made the first one obsolete."
Jewish rabbis claim that Christians must follow the law of Moses, the Christian apostles tell them to fuck off and that Christians are not required to follow the old laws:
But I'm not sure it's a good idea for you to insult the 2.2 billion Christians in the world by calling them "stormcucks".
They have a right to follow their beliefs and 2,000 year old traditions.
If you disagree, then perhaps Jews also do not have a right to follow their beliefs and traditions. Who do you think would win: 2,200 million Christians or 17 million Jews? Maybe it's best if you keep your mouth shut, instead of angering the sleeping bear.
Christianity is literally named after the most important figure in its history, while Judaism rejects that same figure. There couldn’t be a more obvious and powerful divergence. It is very in-character for you to completely gloss over this, btw.
The Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”
The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter.
"We believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”
"Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood."
Those are the only rules that Christians must follow, Christians are not required to follow any of the Old Testament.
In fact, Christians are explicitly forbidden from circumcising, which is mandatory in Judaism:
Jews can never being wrong so IF Jesus was the messiah then they REEEEALLLY fucked up and that can't be allowed so subversion time. There's a reason the new testament talks about The Synagogue of Satan....Wonder who that could be about. Modern Jews that turned their back on God and are now in league with Satan due to pride and avarice.
So many of the "Judeo-Christian" values (like queerphobia and islamaphobia) aren't even things that most Jews believe in.
Imagine thinking that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah isn't a thing in Judaism, and that the koran doesn't spell out very specifically what should happen to jews.
Whenever someone on reddit, or most of the internet, says that "most X do(n't) believe Y" they mean they don't believe Y, have never actually discussed it with someone who even might disagree, and just assume every X agrees with them because they're super smart and special.
The Modern Day Babylon answer to Sodom and Gomorrah (also mentioned in the Koran btw) was that it was about consent. They say He destroyed Sodom because the men wanted to rape the visitors, not because there's something wrong with gay bathhouse orgies.
Because as we know Consent is obviously a universal law that the Creator mentions often in the Bible. I think it's the 11th commandment.
It's because these people are the sheltered, gated community type of people. We see this behavior on all kinds of people be it Christian, atheists or others. They have never suffered or faced reality.
In fact, the morons talking in there would be mocked in Israel.
Judeo-Christianity is a terrible term. For one, such a term goes against Christianity which literally says in the new testament more or less that there is no judeo, there's only Christianity. A good Christian would never acknowledge Judaism. Since Christ, the religion doesn't exist anymore because it became Christianity. These modern "Jews" that practice Judaism are unholy.
The term "Judeo-Christianity" was invented in the 1930s, Christians have never viewed themself as being similar to Jews. They have always viewed Christianity as being fundamentally different from Judaism (because it is).
Why? Modern Judaism is highly influenced by the Talmud, not just the old testament. Modern Jews who only adhere to the old testament get a special name within Judaism because of how rare that is.
The fact of the matter is that the old testament and the new testament are Christianity not Judeo-Christianity. There truly isn't any Judaism. After Jesus, the old testament became a part of Christianity.
The Talmud was like a Reddit from its time. What you claimed about the Talmud today is false.
If you want to deny Jewish contributions to your religion and appropriate it(claiming that it is yours like BLM does with inventions) then do us a favour and delete thebold testament, Jesus and other things. And go live in Bethlehem. After all after Israel ceeded the city to the Palestinian authority the Christians have fled.
Anyone who believes those things is Christian. Any person who doesn't believe in Jesus is not of Judah but of the devil, so says Jesus himself. The old testament is Christian. There is no judeo Christianity there is only Christianity.
The old testament laws have become obsolete per Hebrews 8:13. However, the teachings and character of God derived from the OT are still valid. The Bible is a book for grown ups so please discuss it as a grown up.
I'm okay with that. There are a bunch of Christian groups who only follow the New Testament and completely ignore the Old Testament. So they are already doing what you want.
Just made me so angry because they don't appreciate how lucky they have it living in Christian countries, do they really not understand how much Islam and Muslims DESPISE Jews?
Yet all these privilege American/European Jews can complain about is Christianity, the religion of the nations they all PRIMARILY LIVE IN... by CHOICE... because it's safest. And for anyone who's unaware, no, Hitler was NOT Christian, there is evidence he was atheist and anti-christian.
Most evidence suggests Hitler was Christian but struggled with the state Cbrisitsnity was in. The problem is that a lot of the "Christians" living in Germany at the time were fake Christians, which Hitler had a problem with, just like today most "Christians" in western civilization are fake Christians. The religion became subverted heavily in the 1800s and was a complete joke by Hitler's time. Today we see the same thing. Christians went from killing heretics to refusing to do anything against their enemies.
"Never tolerate that religious discussions take place among us.
The oldest members know that this has never happened with us.
We could say to everyone:
Go to your church and pray to your Lord, raise your children to be decent Christians, and be convinced that it is more important to fight together for this Christianity, instead of tearing each other apart in the interest of a third party: the eternally laughing Jew."
𝐀𝐝𝐨𝐥𝐟 𝐇𝐢𝐭𝐥𝐞𝐫
Speech in Munich, August 31, 1928 at the general meeting of the NSDAP.
The only thing wrong with this comment is that it implies Hitler was some kind of traditional Christian who followed the faith better than Germans. That doesn't match the evidence either. It seems like only he cared for religion in as much as it forwarded his political goals.
Hitler didn't care much for Islam, Himmler did (until they disappointed him).
The real (as opposed to many fictional portrayals) Hitler wasn't invested in the actual Himmlerite pagan and mythological (like Arthurian) fantasies too. He even (privately) said Rosenberg's Myth of the 20th Century was stupid.
And stop with the monolithism. I can always quote the pope who spouts the same nonsense, I can always quote the myriad of other Christians who says the same thing.
So... you're saying because the Jews stole Palestine away from the native Palestinians, and then the native Palestinians didn't like their home being taken so they fought back to defend themself... the Jews are now justified in their hatred of Islam?
The only reason why a Jew would even be within 1,000 miles of a Muslim is because of Israel. Jews lived in Europe, among White people, they were safe from Muslims.
Fucking Scofield bible boomers think following Jesus means unquestioningly cucking out to the sociopolitical state of Israel. The faith needs to separate itself from any sort of Judeo-Bolshevism.
HA! These are the same ones who run the press like Times of Israel and ADL. Would love to hear from someone who doesn't hate being a Jew or white for a change.
thestonewoman[🍰] 117 points 1 day ago
This has been something that has pissed me off for years! There’s no such thing. I am actually really curious as to where the phrase originated, because Jewish and Christian values are frequently diametrically opposed to each other - which isn’t surprising, given that Christianity’s founding ethos was basically, “we aren’t going to follow any of those rules any more”.
This is peak irony. "Those rules" of course being the rampant homophobia, ethnocentrism, and genocide that the OP is complaining about being associated with. Having read the entire bible, the Old Testament people frequently came across as a bunch of assholes but the New Testament Jesus followers seemed like nicer folks. That being said, I too hate the saying "judeo-christian." And there's another saying common in these parts that is versatile and fits perfectly here: "stop giving money to people who hate you."
I hate the term too, and I hate the evangelicals who worship Israel. The old testament is important prologue to the greatest story ever told, and Jews do not own it.
The false marriage of Judaism and Christianity is not a Christian invention, and it certainly does not help Christians.
And yet... your belief shares a lot with Judaism. But if you want to deny it, begin to take out the old testament of your bible.
Should Americans not study European history and claim it as part of their cultural tradition because they had a revolution and created their own new form of government?
From a religious standpoint, Christians moved beyond the Jew and invited Jews to adopt the new law. Therefore Christianity is a superset of the old law, and saying "Judeo" is meaningless. And in a sense the Jews here are right: if they refuse to accept Christ, they aren't "Judeo-Christian". Why use the term at all?
From a historical/cultural standpoint, it's kind of subjective. Judeo-Christian is fine with me but I understand why others disagree, and again saying "Christian" already implies Jewish contributions to the empire. Greco-Roman (itself redundant) and Anglo are also accurate descriptors that you can combine with Christianity to describe pre-American culture. Even those leave out the pagan traditions that Christians coopted. It's still argued today how much Europe was shaped by Christian leaders vs. pagan traditions.
That's a gross misunderstanding of Christian doctrine
Say that to those idiots wanting to deny the Jewish contributions to Christianity.
I for one absolutely recognize the Jewish contributions to Christianity. After all, if the Jews hadn't been so hellbent on persecuting and denying the Messiah and spitting in the face of the God they claim to worship, we wouldn't have Christianity to begin with.
So thank you, heretic, for your contributions to the true religion.
And then christians did the same to others... And thus proving the other religions true? Hey, your logic!
No they didn't, you abject retard.
Then explain inquisition, the attack on the natives in America, the discrimination against Jews in the middle ages...
And then we have you doing the same thing to Jews right now.
Catholicism isn't a Christian institution. Look up torture devices. Who made them? Catholics. Who molests children on a large scale? Catholics. Who says the pope is without sin, has authority over believers, still follows him despite the office of the pope murdering people for....reading the bible?, .
No true Scotsman fallacy.
Like killing Jesus?
The romans?
Matthew 27:24-25:
24 When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that a tumult was rising, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, “I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see to it.”
25 And all the people answered and said, “His blood be on us and on our children.”
Roman.
Jews don't use the torah any more.
[CITATION NEEDED]
That's not a citation.
The Talmud (/ˈtɑːlmʊd, -məd, ˈtæl-/; Hebrew: תַּלְמוּד Tálmūḏ) is the central text of Rabbinic Judaism and the primary source of Jewish religious law (halakha) and Jewish theology.[1][2] Until the advent of modernity, in nearly all Jewish communities, the Talmud was the centerpiece of Jewish cultural life and was foundational to "all Jewish thought and aspirations", serving also as "the guide for the daily life" of Jews.[3]
Only thing this got wrong is that the Talmud is still the centerpiece. While secular jews may not study Talmud, the teachings of the talmud have been inextricably carved into the hearts and minds of every jewish community.
Its not. And it is not the "law" as it was a bunch of discussions between Rabbis at the time of things that happened at their communities during that time.
Try again. Read the rest of the wiki quote.
Already done, kind of. New Testament pretty much overrules the old due to the crucifixion and grace the heebs rejected.
Alright, which version of the bible is this going to be called?
"Stormcuckery Version" ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersessionism
Jewish rabbis claim that Christians must follow the law of Moses, the Christian apostles tell them to fuck off and that Christians are not required to follow the old laws:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+15&version=ESV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+2%3A14-16&version=ESV
This is all right there in the Bible. This has been the beliefs of Christians for over 2,000 years.
Alrighty then. Off with the old testament and on with the "stormcuck bible".
That's correct. I'm glad you have seen the light.
But I'm not sure it's a good idea for you to insult the 2.2 billion Christians in the world by calling them "stormcucks".
They have a right to follow their beliefs and 2,000 year old traditions.
If you disagree, then perhaps Jews also do not have a right to follow their beliefs and traditions. Who do you think would win: 2,200 million Christians or 17 million Jews? Maybe it's best if you keep your mouth shut, instead of angering the sleeping bear.
I think you will anger a whole lot more Christians with your bible version. Because you are taking out about half of it and desecrating it.
Do us a favor, and eliminate everything Jewish from Christianity.
I’m not Christian. It’s not my Bible.
Christianity is literally named after the most important figure in its history, while Judaism rejects that same figure. There couldn’t be a more obvious and powerful divergence. It is very in-character for you to completely gloss over this, btw.
Then explain why Christianity would not exist without Judaism, including the Torah imbedded in the bible.
Christians are not obligated to follow the Torah, or the Old Testament. It is useful as a historical reference, but it's not morally binding:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+15&version=ESV
Those are the only rules that Christians must follow, Christians are not required to follow any of the Old Testament.
In fact, Christians are explicitly forbidden from circumcising, which is mandatory in Judaism:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galations+5%3A1-4&version=ESV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+7%3A18&version=ESV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galations+6%3A12-15&version=ESV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+15%3A24&version=KJV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus+1%3A10-16&version=ESV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+3%3A2-3&version=ESV
And?
Kind of weird how Christians have given so much to Jews in the past and yet are the only religion that they constantly try to attack and subvert.
The proverb "don't bite the hand that feeds you" exists because people usually get jealous of the hand that feeds them.
Jews can never being wrong so IF Jesus was the messiah then they REEEEALLLY fucked up and that can't be allowed so subversion time. There's a reason the new testament talks about The Synagogue of Satan....Wonder who that could be about. Modern Jews that turned their back on God and are now in league with Satan due to pride and avarice.
What sort of monolithism belief are you talking about?
Imagine thinking that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah isn't a thing in Judaism, and that the koran doesn't spell out very specifically what should happen to jews.
Because the 'Jews' today don't follow Torah or Old Testament law. They follow Rabbinical Talmudism, a younger faith than Christianity.
Whenever someone on reddit, or most of the internet, says that "most X do(n't) believe Y" they mean they don't believe Y, have never actually discussed it with someone who even might disagree, and just assume every X agrees with them because they're super smart and special.
The Modern Day Babylon answer to Sodom and Gomorrah (also mentioned in the Koran btw) was that it was about consent. They say He destroyed Sodom because the men wanted to rape the visitors, not because there's something wrong with gay bathhouse orgies.
Because as we know Consent is obviously a universal law that the Creator mentions often in the Bible. I think it's the 11th commandment.
Yeah man, burning people alive for helping the poor is one thing, but consensual sex is too far!
It's because these people are the sheltered, gated community type of people. We see this behavior on all kinds of people be it Christian, atheists or others. They have never suffered or faced reality.
In fact, the morons talking in there would be mocked in Israel.
Judeo-Christianity is a terrible term. For one, such a term goes against Christianity which literally says in the new testament more or less that there is no judeo, there's only Christianity. A good Christian would never acknowledge Judaism. Since Christ, the religion doesn't exist anymore because it became Christianity. These modern "Jews" that practice Judaism are unholy.
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Matthew 5:17
Exactly he brought it all together as Christianity. There is judeo anymore, only Christianity.
The term "Judeo-Christianity" was invented in the 1930s, Christians have never viewed themself as being similar to Jews. They have always viewed Christianity as being fundamentally different from Judaism (because it is).
Delete the old testament then.
Why? Modern Judaism is highly influenced by the Talmud, not just the old testament. Modern Jews who only adhere to the old testament get a special name within Judaism because of how rare that is.
The fact of the matter is that the old testament and the new testament are Christianity not Judeo-Christianity. There truly isn't any Judaism. After Jesus, the old testament became a part of Christianity.
The Talmud was like a Reddit from its time. What you claimed about the Talmud today is false.
If you want to deny Jewish contributions to your religion and appropriate it(claiming that it is yours like BLM does with inventions) then do us a favour and delete thebold testament, Jesus and other things. And go live in Bethlehem. After all after Israel ceeded the city to the Palestinian authority the Christians have fled.
Jews didn't add anything to Christianity. Christians did. Any person who isn't a Christian can't claim any impact on the Christian religion.
Then do us a favour and take out the old testament, Jesus, the holidays, and other nifty little things. Including God himself.
I will wait.
Anyone who believes those things is Christian. Any person who doesn't believe in Jesus is not of Judah but of the devil, so says Jesus himself. The old testament is Christian. There is no judeo Christianity there is only Christianity.
Then whose Religion did the Torah... sorry, old testament comes from?
The old testament laws have become obsolete per Hebrews 8:13. However, the teachings and character of God derived from the OT are still valid. The Bible is a book for grown ups so please discuss it as a grown up.
Really?
If one wants to deny Jewish contributions to Christianity then do us a favor and delete the old testament.
This isn't a denial of the ancient Israelites contribution to the faith, it's a claim that Talmudism is illegitimate.
That's a gross misunderstanding of Jewish doctrine
I'm okay with that. There are a bunch of Christian groups who only follow the New Testament and completely ignore the Old Testament. So they are already doing what you want.
Then launch that version. Also take out the holidays, symbolism and God out of it. Try have Christianity without those.
You mean holidays like Christmas and Easter? Those are pagan/Christian holidays, absolutely unrelated to Judaism.
Why would we remove God from Christianity? God is a very important part of the New Testament. Jesus is the Son of God.
Because the God you worship is Jewish in origin. Or did he somehow came to be after Christianity was invented?
Just made me so angry because they don't appreciate how lucky they have it living in Christian countries, do they really not understand how much Islam and Muslims DESPISE Jews?
Yet all these privilege American/European Jews can complain about is Christianity, the religion of the nations they all PRIMARILY LIVE IN... by CHOICE... because it's safest. And for anyone who's unaware, no, Hitler was NOT Christian, there is evidence he was atheist and anti-christian.
They are redditors. I don't know what you except from anywhere but some very niche Reddit forums.
Most evidence suggests Hitler was Christian but struggled with the state Cbrisitsnity was in. The problem is that a lot of the "Christians" living in Germany at the time were fake Christians, which Hitler had a problem with, just like today most "Christians" in western civilization are fake Christians. The religion became subverted heavily in the 1800s and was a complete joke by Hitler's time. Today we see the same thing. Christians went from killing heretics to refusing to do anything against their enemies.
"Never tolerate that religious discussions take place among us. The oldest members know that this has never happened with us. We could say to everyone: Go to your church and pray to your Lord, raise your children to be decent Christians, and be convinced that it is more important to fight together for this Christianity, instead of tearing each other apart in the interest of a third party: the eternally laughing Jew."
𝐀𝐝𝐨𝐥𝐟 𝐇𝐢𝐭𝐥𝐞𝐫 Speech in Munich, August 31, 1928 at the general meeting of the NSDAP.
The only thing wrong with this comment is that it implies Hitler was some kind of traditional Christian who followed the faith better than Germans. That doesn't match the evidence either. It seems like only he cared for religion in as much as it forwarded his political goals.
Hitler didn't care much for Islam, Himmler did (until they disappointed him).
The real (as opposed to many fictional portrayals) Hitler wasn't invested in the actual Himmlerite pagan and mythological (like Arthurian) fantasies too. He even (privately) said Rosenberg's Myth of the 20th Century was stupid.
He literally did, no /s
He was Christian.
And stop with the monolithism. I can always quote the pope who spouts the same nonsense, I can always quote the myriad of other Christians who says the same thing.
Yes, because atheistic secular Jews have subverted Judaism even more than they've subverted Christianity.
But LOL at pretending Jews aren't (very fucking justifiably) Islamophobic.
So... you're saying because the Jews stole Palestine away from the native Palestinians, and then the native Palestinians didn't like their home being taken so they fought back to defend themself... the Jews are now justified in their hatred of Islam?
Nice of you to ignore everything before WW2.
The only reason why a Jew would even be within 1,000 miles of a Muslim is because of Israel. Jews lived in Europe, among White people, they were safe from Muslims.
Have fun in Bethlehem.
Fucking Scofield bible boomers think following Jesus means unquestioningly cucking out to the sociopolitical state of Israel. The faith needs to separate itself from any sort of Judeo-Bolshevism.
HA! These are the same ones who run the press like Times of Israel and ADL. Would love to hear from someone who doesn't hate being a Jew or white for a change.
This is peak irony. "Those rules" of course being the rampant homophobia, ethnocentrism, and genocide that the OP is complaining about being associated with. Having read the entire bible, the Old Testament people frequently came across as a bunch of assholes but the New Testament Jesus followers seemed like nicer folks. That being said, I too hate the saying "judeo-christian." And there's another saying common in these parts that is versatile and fits perfectly here: "stop giving money to people who hate you."
I hate the term too, and I hate the evangelicals who worship Israel. The old testament is important prologue to the greatest story ever told, and Jews do not own it.