It continues to amuse me that within 10 years of the New Atheism movement's rise to prominence and their declaration that religion was the root of all strife, the Atheism+ faction had split off from the New Atheist movement; and members of the two factions hated each other.
And a lot of these people were 50+ years old and didn't have youth and inexperience as an excuse.
The rank and file were (disclosure: I was one of those "20-somethings", though I wasn't raging against my parents and had moved on from caring about most of this shit by the time Atheism+ became a thing), but the people a bit higher on the food chain like PZ Meyers and Richard Dawkins were more than old enough to know better.
They lack both granularity and actually adhering to their philosophies.
Religion is a source of some strife, but also has positive effects on society. Nothing is all good or all bad, isn't that the whole point of moral relativism?
Having spent approximately half my life in a religious right part of the country and the other half in a secularist left part, I can comfortably say that the main problem is that people do not put enough thought into whatever philosophy they spend their time around. It's the "fish don't know they're in water" problem.
Many lay Christians (and many in church authority) have trouble providing any practical justification for why someone should adhere to the faith. To an engineer sort like myself, if something is true it should also be useful (and more useful than things that aren't true); and I had trouble getting good answers as to the utility of church teachings. Especially when "uncomfortable" truths like "women should not be in positions of leadership" were raised.
Secularists spend too little time actually thinking through their personal philosophy. If you reject all the pre-packaged ones and believe it's possible for all moral positions to be reasoned into, it's incumbent on you to do so. Yet almost no one does this or even attempts to do so, or even really understands that's something they need to do. Instead it's just minor tweaks to whatever the mainstream at the time is, which leaves one directionless when that mainstream changes.
Saw this on plebbit and found it amusing they're bringing up all these bad things religions have influenced/caused yet can't even recognize they're in one just the same.
I can't think of any specific docs off the top of my head but I know profs like Peter Boghossian have written about how the current leftist/social justice/woke ideology in vogue is a (iirc) non-theistic religion.
You and u/BigHorseDewormerGuy, I'll see if I can dig up some stuff in the next day or so. Because dammit I remember reading things along those lines, but certainly look up James Lindsay, Peter Boghossian, and Helen Pluckrose (they're all the Sokal^2 Hoax people btw) because they've definitely talked about it on YouTube talks and podcasts.
First I heard this connection pointed out was probably 2017 or 2018 when Tim Pool was interviewing them when he still did on the ground journalism kek
"LOL, worker reeducation camps are about teaching people to forget their old bigoted ways and accepting the truth of things. It gives them freedom to explore without the worries and stresses of their old lives or trying to earn a living."
To be fair, he quit because he wouldn't be able to make money from it. Same reason TFS quit making DBZ Abridged.
It's all fair use content and he could've fucked off to Bitchute or Odysee to avoid youtube's incompetent DMCA system, but instead he packed up his ball and went home.
GW doesn't escape the blame for being retards about their copyright, but Alfabusa cucked out without even attempting a fight. No respect
And that religion is called Judaism. Not hard to press F3 use search and find them all championing Judaism while bashing Christianity. Forum manipulation is just what they do in Israel. Per USA Today and the BBC they pay children/students to shill.
I don't care what happens to it, I just don't want other peoples' religions to control my life.
But we demand your kindergartener attends drag queen story hour, and reads at least three anti racist children's books in order to move on to grade school.
It's the most cringe thing to see an atheist crow about their superiority to those filthy deists.
They're mere slaves leaving one master for another, believing they are better off now that their chains are gold instead of iron. Ironically, their new master is simply the old one in drag.
We’re made to worship God, it’s pretty clear from human tendencies/the Bible.
As someone who struggles with the fandom/other sinful things taking precedence over God, I will tell you this:
It doesn’t fill that empty hole in their lives left by rejecting God. The godless try to fill that empty spot in their lives, but end up more miserable, because their souls are still crying out for that fulfilling love only God provides.
One of the questions that bothers me, as a practicing Christian, regards the 'God shaped hole' you've talked about.
How do you differentiate a real need from God from a developmental deficit-- one which results from an adult wishing that a parental (or surrogate for parental) authority would tell them what to do, thus absolving them of the hard decisions that come from adulthood? Isn't belief in God simply a use of Reified Authority in the form of a Heavenly Father to slake this same thirst?
It's one of those haunting questions.
Even Atheist communities talk about 'deconversion' being necessary to prevent other fervors from sitting in the place once reserved for God. The majority of Atheists and Antitheists never deconvert entirely, so wind up devoted to another belief system.
Hmmm, I’m admittedly not the best Christian (see above comment) but I’ll try to answer. I don’t want to rely completely on my own human knowledge so I’ll mainly use Bible chunks.
I think the need to worship comes from God wanting us to have His love front and center in our lives. By having other things take precedence, it’s not really a developmental issue (I despise secular terms, so I’m going to drop this now) it’s more of an issue of idolatry.
Your life and morals are going to revolve around whatever you worship, it’s one of the reasons we have all these “No objective truth” (God) mindsets whose lives are chaotic. I wouldn’t even say God is my first object of worship (I’m working on it), otherwise I’d abandon these boards for good. God knows that we’re going to worship and mold otherselves along those lines:
“And God spoke all these words:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.” Exodus 20:1-7.
God is jealous because he only wants the best for us and knows if we worship anything but Him, we’re going to start destroying ourselves by following base desires. By welcoming God and Jesus into your heart, you are transformed according to God’s will and order. Your life may be turned upside down from His will, but it will ultimately be more fulfilling and healthy in the long run.
As Paul says:
“Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.” 1 Corinthians 6:19-20
If Jesus looked into your body (the temple) would he find a house of prayer or a den of thieves (worldly topics/desires; video games, maybe?). Your conduct will be structured around that topic.
So the “hole” isn’t really a matter of trying to have a higher authority absolve you if your misdeeds, it’s about being filled by a guiding love to improve yourself and then spread the salvation God has granted you (and the trials as well, for they will come).
I hope that at least answered some of your question or helped you in some way.
It must be sad to be permanently stuck in the mind of a 13 year old.
It'd be 8 or 9 years older than his current mental capacity, at least. Poor guy needs help, not rulership.
It continues to amuse me that within 10 years of the New Atheism movement's rise to prominence and their declaration that religion was the root of all strife, the Atheism+ faction had split off from the New Atheist movement; and members of the two factions hated each other.
And a lot of these people were 50+ years old and didn't have youth and inexperience as an excuse.
Pretty sad. I was thinking it was mainly 20-somethings still raging against Mom & Dad
The rank and file were (disclosure: I was one of those "20-somethings", though I wasn't raging against my parents and had moved on from caring about most of this shit by the time Atheism+ became a thing), but the people a bit higher on the food chain like PZ Meyers and Richard Dawkins were more than old enough to know better.
They lack both granularity and actually adhering to their philosophies.
Religion is a source of some strife, but also has positive effects on society. Nothing is all good or all bad, isn't that the whole point of moral relativism?
Having spent approximately half my life in a religious right part of the country and the other half in a secularist left part, I can comfortably say that the main problem is that people do not put enough thought into whatever philosophy they spend their time around. It's the "fish don't know they're in water" problem.
Many lay Christians (and many in church authority) have trouble providing any practical justification for why someone should adhere to the faith. To an engineer sort like myself, if something is true it should also be useful (and more useful than things that aren't true); and I had trouble getting good answers as to the utility of church teachings. Especially when "uncomfortable" truths like "women should not be in positions of leadership" were raised.
Secularists spend too little time actually thinking through their personal philosophy. If you reject all the pre-packaged ones and believe it's possible for all moral positions to be reasoned into, it's incumbent on you to do so. Yet almost no one does this or even attempts to do so, or even really understands that's something they need to do. Instead it's just minor tweaks to whatever the mainstream at the time is, which leaves one directionless when that mainstream changes.
Saw this on plebbit and found it amusing they're bringing up all these bad things religions have influenced/caused yet can't even recognize they're in one just the same.
I can't think of any specific docs off the top of my head but I know profs like Peter Boghossian have written about how the current leftist/social justice/woke ideology in vogue is a (iirc) non-theistic religion.
Agreed. I want a link or two.
You and u/BigHorseDewormerGuy, I'll see if I can dig up some stuff in the next day or so. Because dammit I remember reading things along those lines, but certainly look up James Lindsay, Peter Boghossian, and Helen Pluckrose (they're all the Sokal^2 Hoax people btw) because they've definitely talked about it on YouTube talks and podcasts.
First I heard this connection pointed out was probably 2017 or 2018 when Tim Pool was interviewing them when he still did on the ground journalism kek
I found this.
https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/my-university-sacrificed-ideas-for
"LOL, worker reeducation camps are about teaching people to forget their old bigoted ways and accepting the truth of things. It gives them freedom to explore without the worries and stresses of their old lives or trying to earn a living."
Relevant https://youtu.be/SG7VvMGw6w0?t=395
Unbelief can be a religion of its own
Man fuck GW for making Bruva Alfabusa cancel TTS.
To be fair, he quit because he wouldn't be able to make money from it. Same reason TFS quit making DBZ Abridged.
It's all fair use content and he could've fucked off to Bitchute or Odysee to avoid youtube's incompetent DMCA system, but instead he packed up his ball and went home.
GW doesn't escape the blame for being retards about their copyright, but Alfabusa cucked out without even attempting a fight. No respect
And that religion is called Judaism. Not hard to press F3 use search and find them all championing Judaism while bashing Christianity. Forum manipulation is just what they do in Israel. Per USA Today and the BBC they pay children/students to shill.
Comment Reported for: Rule 16 - Identity Attacks
Comment Approved: This doesn't actually do that, because it's criticism of Israel.
But we demand your kindergartener attends drag queen story hour, and reads at least three anti racist children's books in order to move on to grade school.
It's the most cringe thing to see an atheist crow about their superiority to those filthy deists.
They're mere slaves leaving one master for another, believing they are better off now that their chains are gold instead of iron. Ironically, their new master is simply the old one in drag.
We’re made to worship God, it’s pretty clear from human tendencies/the Bible.
As someone who struggles with the fandom/other sinful things taking precedence over God, I will tell you this:
It doesn’t fill that empty hole in their lives left by rejecting God. The godless try to fill that empty spot in their lives, but end up more miserable, because their souls are still crying out for that fulfilling love only God provides.
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here.
One of the questions that bothers me, as a practicing Christian, regards the 'God shaped hole' you've talked about.
How do you differentiate a real need from God from a developmental deficit-- one which results from an adult wishing that a parental (or surrogate for parental) authority would tell them what to do, thus absolving them of the hard decisions that come from adulthood? Isn't belief in God simply a use of Reified Authority in the form of a Heavenly Father to slake this same thirst?
It's one of those haunting questions.
Even Atheist communities talk about 'deconversion' being necessary to prevent other fervors from sitting in the place once reserved for God. The majority of Atheists and Antitheists never deconvert entirely, so wind up devoted to another belief system.
Hmmm, I’m admittedly not the best Christian (see above comment) but I’ll try to answer. I don’t want to rely completely on my own human knowledge so I’ll mainly use Bible chunks.
I think the need to worship comes from God wanting us to have His love front and center in our lives. By having other things take precedence, it’s not really a developmental issue (I despise secular terms, so I’m going to drop this now) it’s more of an issue of idolatry.
Your life and morals are going to revolve around whatever you worship, it’s one of the reasons we have all these “No objective truth” (God) mindsets whose lives are chaotic. I wouldn’t even say God is my first object of worship (I’m working on it), otherwise I’d abandon these boards for good. God knows that we’re going to worship and mold otherselves along those lines:
“And God spoke all these words:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.” Exodus 20:1-7.
God is jealous because he only wants the best for us and knows if we worship anything but Him, we’re going to start destroying ourselves by following base desires. By welcoming God and Jesus into your heart, you are transformed according to God’s will and order. Your life may be turned upside down from His will, but it will ultimately be more fulfilling and healthy in the long run.
As Paul says:
“Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.” 1 Corinthians 6:19-20
If Jesus looked into your body (the temple) would he find a house of prayer or a den of thieves (worldly topics/desires; video games, maybe?). Your conduct will be structured around that topic.
So the “hole” isn’t really a matter of trying to have a higher authority absolve you if your misdeeds, it’s about being filled by a guiding love to improve yourself and then spread the salvation God has granted you (and the trials as well, for they will come).
I hope that at least answered some of your question or helped you in some way.
God bless!