Removing that is pretty sick, but the line that got me was:
I used to be a waitress and make great tips and travel and live my life without worrying. This year changed everything.
A kid who was never taught the value of money, never wanted for anything and so never saw the need to save. Gurantee you there are thousands of people in this position, suddenly the kids are having to grow up very, very quick.
I never thought I'd see the day where fucking Twitch streamers had a more stable 'job' than productive people.
I've been poor, scrounging, and hording all my life because I've normally had almost nothing except disaster. ... This year had very little effect on my. I actually got a job in a place that was considered "essential" so I didn't even lose out on work. However, I am surrounded by middle-class people who, frankly, seem alien to me.
They have repeatedly told me that I'm a crazy person for taking free food home from work because it was "left out" (for about 6 hours), and that there wasn't going to be a recession, and that buying gold/silver/platinum is ridiculous and an unwise investment.
As a great philosopher once said: FUCKYOUIWASRIGHT
These people are still living their lives comfortably, but I've seen this all back in 2008. The middle class came crashing down to my level. NPR did news stories about middle class people having to... live like me. I was nearly totally uneffected by the 2008 crash too.
These people have no idea what's about to happen to them, despite my hysterical ramblings. I definitely look like the guy who's screaming about the sky falling to them. They just want to keep keepin' on the way things have been. But they are finally getting unnerved about the debt being over 100% of the GDP.
My poor friends are half tempted to do the same thing, because they don't know what's going on, and they're just trying to get by and read manga. But they are taking me more seriously now because I won't stop giving them silver coins and telling them not to sell them. They're starting to realize that I'm deadly serious, and if Gizortnik looks like he's doing something insane, he might just be doing it for a good reason. He's either an idiot and you'll know immediately, or he's right and you should be concerned.
Can relate to the thing about food. I'll be taking home the food that was 'out of date' by maybe 30 minutes - 2hrs and people were always questioning why I wasn't sick from it. This from the people that throw out everything in their fridge every week. On the plus side I used to save loads from just acting as waste disposal for their perfectly good food.
Christ I knew a guy who knew the timing of a certain 7-11, they'd throw out their fresh subs every two or four hours or something crazy; they didn't unwrap them, so he'd just come along and grab the ones on top.
I love "best by" dates, mostly because several supermarkets around here sell stuff at 50% off if it's going to expire that day.
You can get really nice dinners for 1-2€. Not the cheap frozen microwave stuff either but their "gourmet" line with fresh vegetables, salads and expensive ingredients like .... uhh ... salmon (not fried though) and stuff that actually looks like what it's supposed to be, not some ground up chunks that have vaguely the right color.
I always make sure to check their discount shelf to see whats for dinner that week. You can't beat those prices and they last for several days in the fridge. Even dairy products last for weeks past the best-by date. If it doesn't smell funny or tastes funny its fine.
I buy at least half of my meat like that. It will be two or three days from the date, which is totally fine because I have in my head I'm going to cook it in the next few days anyway. High priced cuts of meat for the price of the cheap stuff. I haven't looked for fish before, maybe I should. I'm really bad at cooking fish but it would be an opportunity to learn I guess.
I've never seen that type of deal on vegetables. They are usually pretty cheap anyway where I am. The people that say they can't afford to eat healthy are just lazy. Fresh fruit and vegetables are usually the cheapest food I buy.
Similar stuff from some supermarkets in the UK. Go at the right time and you can get things for quite literally 10 pence or even lower.
800g loaf of bread? 10p.
Buy three if there are that many left and freeze them all.
Make-your-own coleslaw packs? 6p each. Get a couple or more if able and you have meal sides for at least a week for less than 20 pence.
It does come down to luck of the draw at times and you need to be prompt sometimes as it's not a secret this happens, but with consideration you can spend fractions of produce that can be properly kept for a long time after those best before labels say.
This from the people that throw out everything in their fridge every week.
I can only imagine that the type of person to do this was someone who's never truly gone hungry.
On the plus side I used to save loads from just acting as waste disposal for their perfectly good food.
Yeah, I was getting too much food. Couldn't eat it all, and they put mayo on everything. (The racists might have a point about the white upper-middle class obsession with mayo).
Them: "You can't just eat potato salad that's been out since this afternoon, it's got mayonnaise in it, it will spoil. It's gross."
Me: <eats> "I don't even like potato salad. It was served cold, and it's still cold."
It's the middle-class, bro.
They are so weird. I never used to believe that there were major class differences between populations. Like, it doesn't matter how much money a person has, if they have similar values, they'll look basically the same. But that's just not true. The middle class are fucking alien. I grew up poor and mostly rural so their entire perspective on reality is contrary to mine. I couldn't relate to any of them if I weren't surrounded by nerds.
Then, of course, there are the suburbanite mid-wits which I simply have never been able to stand.
Class is more of a divider than race or religion. No question.
As someone who was working poor for most of my life and who recently joined the middle class in the last three years (looks like I will be back to my roots soon though) I totally agree. People in the middle class who have not known anything else are weird/ignorant of much of the hardship. It's pretty fucked up.
Will do my best to try at this point with what I have left. Savings have been wiped thanks to the "progressive" quarantine here in MI. Even ended up leaving the field of law because I no longer see a point in it. Been a hell of a couple of months and the worst is yet to come.
My biggest advice is to not get stuck in one place. On my own hard times, I've learned well that it's best to be homeless than to be carless. Find a job first, to keep the money coming in. The field of law is probably not that useless for income, but I don't know the local area. It is also possible that you can move to a different field to learn a job that might be still be in need of your fundamental skills (even if it's things like reading contracts, writing instructions, doing research, etc).
Your primary object should be to avoid limiting yourself, so that you can find solid ground to stand on first, even if it might require a more significant change.
A kid who was never taught the value of money, never wanted for anything and so never saw the need to save.
It was pretty shocking to find out how many people just don't have any savings. Another one was school lunches, it was appalling to find out so many parents rely on schools to feed their kids, it's literally one of the absolute most basic responsibilities of a parent, and they rely on a third party to ensure their own child has something to eat.
it was appalling to find out so many parents rely on schools to feed their kids
I have to wonder if this would be such a problem if schools didn't feed kids. I know schools in my area provide the equivalent of 3 meals per day, and a big concern was that if schools were closed, the kids wouldn't eat.
Well, I can't say I blame the parents for taking advantage of a service that's available to them. But do they actually need to? Or is it just convenience/laziness?
Another one was school lunches, it was appalling to find out so many parents rely on schools to feed their kids, it's literally one of the absolute most basic responsibilities of a parent
I had school lunches as a kid, but always had cooked food at home for dinner. I think it's just convenient and/or cheap.
They always put the fun stuff before the shit you have to do. I can't be all on a high horse and say I was totally financially independent at 23, but I also never would have said that I used to travel and live my life. My early adult life was a slog of working to live and pay for education at the same time and while I did have a little money for fun, we are talking a little. I don't think I could have spent a night in a hotel "traveling" without a month of saving fun money. It was also totally worth it for the kick-start it gave me on the rest of my life.
I'm not sure how I became a saver though growing up around so many bad with money people. I still wouldn't call myself a really tough saver anymore, but I maintain what I have and keep my monthly expenses as low as possible (I hate monthly recurring expenses).
I'd never say to not have nice things like a lot of financial advice, if you want to travel, get a nice car, whatever go for it--at the right time. That's key and it's why I have loads of friends and family that have damn good jobs/income that would be at the food bank in a month in their fancy extremely-leverage purchased car if their income stopped.
This is a much bigger determining factor to long-term wealth than people realize. Keeping your monthly expenses low allows you to save more of each paycheck while still allowing for occasional impulse purchases which over time average out and are lost in the noise.
The other day I was looking at bank account interest rates and wondering how I could squeeze a bit of extra return out of some emergency cash, and I concluded that if I did nothing but cancel netflix I'd end up with several orders of magnitude higher return than if I invested that money in the short-term treasuries I was considering.
Yeah as I was reading more of this having turned into personal finance talk, I was really thinking if I was to give some piece of advice it wouldn't be the spiel about buying unnecessary items, or fancy cars, or any of that. It would be about not signing up for monthly recurring stuff.
I had someone just recently tell me I just "need to accept that I'm going to pay $30 a month for a cell phone forever", for the whole payment plan thing. Uh, no thanks. If there's something big enough cost I end up budgeting it as a monthly expense myself and saving it. I could do that with a phone, throw that $30 a month into savings account and before you know it I can buy a phone and if in the meantime the shit hits the fan I've got a little extra in the bank and owe less to the phone company. I've graduated more to using this method on bigger things like cars, but the concept stays exactly the same.
I used to have those discussions with my parents when I started out own my own. They'd talk about the need to do stuff like clip coupons and reuse ziplock bags and aluminum foil. I'd tell them "Or I could drop my housing expenses by $100/month and buy all the ziplock bags and aluminum foil I'd ever need".
I'm not opposed to buying stuff on sale, but it's small potatoes compared to things like rent.
There have been times where I haven't had enough money. I live pretty comfortably now because I always make sure to have a few hundred in my account just so I can pay rent and stuff but when you don't have that buffer, you do stress. One time I went shopping and my card was declined so I went to a nearby ATM, took out money from that and had enough in my wallet so I could get groceries with that. And I also grew up poor and that frame of mindset is what sticks with you. Because when I see my friend has spent 30K on a new car, I'm not really jealous because he worked hard for that I just wonder what I could do with 30K and I usually draw a blank because I have everything I need to survive now.
I dunno, it's just weird cause living that far down the hole to the point of where you're living in a condemned house, when you managed to claw yourself out and you have disposable income to spend on something or anything, you're not really sure what to do with it.
Try investing your money in one thing or another. Do not waste it on an expensive car or resorts or stuff like that. I'm looking at me and my neighbors that have expensive cars and go on expensive trips, I do not see them being happier then I am. I've never bought a new car in my life and I still buy most things on discounts. Even my house, I bought it early, during construction for the discount.
Like you I was not raised with money, I was not poor but we did not have a lot and as a consequence I'm happy with little and I do not like to waste money.
I've never bought a new car in my life and I still buy most things on discounts.
See, that's a mistake to me.
We used cars all my life because we've got mechanical know how in our family. Then Cash For Clunkers came along, and you're god damned right I took advantage of that.
I also disagree with the Mises institute on this because they don't really seem to understand the problems of owning a used car. It only makes sense if you repair it yourself, and if you have one used car and no others, you're a god damned idiot. You need two used cars. One that runs, and the other that you're repairing. We've had three before, and we still ran into an incident where all 3 broke down in the same time frame. Used cars take an absolutely enormous toll on time and mechanical effort.
The new car I bought, I've just maintained properly. I hit it's first major repair at 80,000 miles. Buying a new car, means you don't need two. I think the optimal situation would be a new car and a used car later on of the same type and age that you can use as a parts car.
A new car, if well maintained, cost less than the best used car you can buy.
I'm not that good with cars. I can fix some easy stuff and I know what most of the components are but that is about it. I've not had much problems with them. Currently I have a 2012 Ford Kuga that did not break on me once. My only complain about it is that the engineers who designed it are sadistic, it's a pain to change the oil filter or the battery, a problem that newer version do not have.
I usually keep a car for 2-3 years and then change it. A good argument against it would be that rather then buy 2 cars in 6 years you get one new car and have it for 6 years.
I'm honestly not sure, but so far I've not had reasons to regret.
My only complain about it is that the engineers who designed it are sadistic, it's a pain to change the oil filter or the battery
They're not sadistic, they just threw the dealerships a bone so that more people would come in.
A good argument against it would be that rather then buy 2 cars in 6 years you get one new car and have it for 6 years. I'm honestly not sure, but so far I've not had reasons to regret.
That's basically what I have. A good new car for ten years.
Eh, I've bought a used car with the express knowledge that I'm going to destroy it - small car plus 20,000mi/year means that the car's going to die, it's just a matter of when.
Still, managed to make enough of that 20,000mi/year business expenses that I made the purchase price back, which was the point.
A new car, if well maintained, cost less than the best used car you can buy.
I seriously doubt this.
I've owned exclusively used cars throughout my life. I keep up the maintenance on them, pay attention when the check engine light comes on, and maybe have to do a minor repair ($100-500) once every 2-3 years.
I've been left "stranded" exactly two times in my life; once when a timing element sensor in my '95 Mustang died, so the engine didn't know when to fire. Once when the alternator on a '98 Grand Am crapped out, so the battery died. In both cases, the cars were up and running again before the end of the day, and I was able to get myself to my destination via alternate means.
A subscription to AAA is absolutely worth it though, just for the peace of mind. Being able to call a single number for help anywhere in the US is extremely handy.
Just do your homework on the vehicle before you buy; there are car forums all over the place that will tell you everything you need to know about older cars and whether they're likely to have problems.
I don't care if you doubt it, I lived it. I got real sick and tired of going into the garage to repair one of our cars once a month. I was genuinely happy when I realized that I'd been driving 6 months in a new car and hadn't once needed to actually fix anything. I was even more ecstatic when that turned into a year... then into 2, then 3. If my car finally goes, I will cry because it has been the most loyal and enduring partner in my life. I've been able to depend on it more than my friends.
Thanks to cash for clunkers, I've only spend a grand total of maybe $8,000 - $9,000 on my car including all repairs and maintenance. First moderate problem was at 80,000 miles (tie-rod went bad). I've never had a used car do that. NEVER. If I buy a used car in January, it need repaired by June.
Hell, one of my friends bought a vehicle with no issues at all around 80,000 miles. The car literally started falling to pieces. Alternator, power steering, ignition coil, cluch, all of them seemed to die between 85k-90k miles. Then his door fell off.
From now on, I'm only buying new cars, or I'm buying two identical used cars. Never one.
I've owned exclusively used cars throughout my life. I keep up the maintenance on them, pay attention when the check engine light comes on, and maybe have to do a minor repair ($100-500) once every 2-3 years.
I'd spend $100-$500 every 3-6 months on every car. Nobody ever took good care of their cars, and worse, the cars were basically designed to fail.
This was during the popularity of the 2-3 year lease, so we'd have cars that were already shitting the bed at 40k-50k miles.
A subscription to AAA is absolutely worth it though, just for the peace of mind. Being able to call a single number for help anywhere in the US is extremely handy.
I've had it for years. I actually still have it now, but when I was living out of my new car, I sometimes lost charge on the battery by accident. (Might fall asleep with something running inside the car). So I just went out and bought one of $300 those handy-dandy portable battery jumpers & air compressors. It's totally worth it for yourself, if not for others.
Having grown up with a dad who ran his own business I can say that being intimately aware of what it actually took for the new car to sit in the garage and the nice house we lived in has much the same effect.
Knowing where your food comes from makes you appreciate it a hell of a lot more.
And I also grew up poor and that frame of mindset is what sticks with you
Honestly, its amazing how many people grew up poor that it didn't stick with them. They fall into the same cycle of cigs, snacks, and beer that kept their parents broke. But now its weed, vapes, and 7 streaming sites.
But I second that "what do I even do with this income" problem. People hate me for Christmas because I literally want nothing. If I wanted it, I already bought it because I had the money. Instead I just keep saving and considering a 20$ knick knack (shit I love knick knacks) my monthly splurge.
My dad worked with this one guy for something like 30 years. Both did the same job and made the same amount of money. My dad managed to raise a family and now has a comfortable retirement, his coworker blew all his money at the casino and is constantly broke.
Some people are just incapable of competently taking care of themselves, and no charity or government program is going to change that.
I spent 20 fucking years like that. A bad relationship led to a gap in employment, which led to a lot of really bad bullshit.
I was just lucky enough to meet someone coming from the same sort of abuse-boat as I was just escaping, and we ditched our garbage together, we're still in the act of flying right, but at least we have a few thousand between us now.
I repent about 90% of my entire life (beyond and separate from the curse of being born human), and simply wish to look forward to whatever bullshit is about to hit.
If I had my time back, I'd join the army on my 18th birthday, gulf war notwithstanding.
A bad relationship led to a gap in employment, which led to a lot of really bad bullshit.
This is one of the most dangerous things that nobody gets told. I didn't realize just how bad a gap in employment is for literally any job whatsoever. I learned the hardway, looking for a job which I would be qualified for, and it was a disaster. It was such a disaster, that I got offers from department heads, and HR would take one look at my resume and I'd never hear from anyone again.
Then I included a job working with my family for the year that I was searching in my resume.
I got 6 job offers in a week.
Is there a word for happy-angry? I was definitely that.
If I had my time back, I'd join the army on my 18th birthday, gulf war notwithstanding.
This is why I would rarely discourage people from the military. It seems to be (and has been since the New Model Army in the 1600's), the most effective social mobility program on Earth. If I had stayed military, I'd probably be way better off now than I am today, but I did want to go to college. It didn't go so hot. I don't regret it except for the cost and wasted time, but I plan on working what I learned into a career through a more convoluted route. However, if someone's trying to get out of a bad way, going military has rarely been a bad option for them.
It's only bad for people who are so terrible with authority that they get themselves in a shit load of trouble, or if they get stuck in a really bad unit and start doing toxic things to themselves.
:/ A lot of what I was taught was too old, I think. "Volunteer, it'll look good on a resume". Ha. Ask me about "responsibilty creep". I just got flagged as a chump who'll work for free ...
I was in army cadets as a teenager, at least I got some "basic" training; but I do remmeber each year we'd lose more than half of a new crop of recruits because they didn't like being yelled at and told what to do. For some reason, people confuse military cadets with scouts. Our cadets are part of the DND military structure.
I think when I was in school we learned a few things about how to balance a checkbook and other things that I'm not sure mesh all that well in a world that had already become mostly plastic cards and online banking. I don't recall ever hearing anything about debt and why it sucks, or saving money, any of that crap.
Dave Ramsey irritates me at times, but damn if he doesn't tell people to get over their excuses and do something about it. I think it may have been more of a person I knew that was a Dave Ramsey nut that irritated me, he'd always gripe about me using my credit card to buy stuff.
he'd always gripe about me using my credit card to buy stuff.
I use credit cards all the time for the cashback and rewards. Even have specific cards for gas, take-out, groceries, etc. Used to churn for a bit, but I stopped since it was getting too time-consuming. As long as you pay the statement balance every month, the interest APR is irrelevant.
That said, I do agree that credit cards will make you more prone to spending, since it's abstract numbers in a computer and not physical cash disappearing from your wallet. But these people usually use a debit card, which is just as bad if not worse.
I know we didn't have anything like that. I'm just glad I took gr 11 three-book accounting - books, not computers, and calculators were banned. (This was maybe 1984.)
But then, I grew up in a weird transitional period, a lot of what I was taught was too old by the time I might have used it.
I've never had any money cause my brain is a bit 'different'...I don't need anything in particular so I've never tried to get much.
I'm a lot better set now than I have been before mainly cause I'm getting old and living by the seat of your pants gets a bit tiring at my age...but I'm still a pauper by most peoples opulent standards.
Removing that is pretty sick, but the line that got me was:
A kid who was never taught the value of money, never wanted for anything and so never saw the need to save. Gurantee you there are thousands of people in this position, suddenly the kids are having to grow up very, very quick.
I never thought I'd see the day where fucking Twitch streamers had a more stable 'job' than productive people.
I've been poor, scrounging, and hording all my life because I've normally had almost nothing except disaster. ... This year had very little effect on my. I actually got a job in a place that was considered "essential" so I didn't even lose out on work. However, I am surrounded by middle-class people who, frankly, seem alien to me.
They have repeatedly told me that I'm a crazy person for taking free food home from work because it was "left out" (for about 6 hours), and that there wasn't going to be a recession, and that buying gold/silver/platinum is ridiculous and an unwise investment.
As a great philosopher once said: FUCKYOUIWASRIGHT
These people are still living their lives comfortably, but I've seen this all back in 2008. The middle class came crashing down to my level. NPR did news stories about middle class people having to... live like me. I was nearly totally uneffected by the 2008 crash too.
These people have no idea what's about to happen to them, despite my hysterical ramblings. I definitely look like the guy who's screaming about the sky falling to them. They just want to keep keepin' on the way things have been. But they are finally getting unnerved about the debt being over 100% of the GDP.
My poor friends are half tempted to do the same thing, because they don't know what's going on, and they're just trying to get by and read manga. But they are taking me more seriously now because I won't stop giving them silver coins and telling them not to sell them. They're starting to realize that I'm deadly serious, and if Gizortnik looks like he's doing something insane, he might just be doing it for a good reason. He's either an idiot and you'll know immediately, or he's right and you should be concerned.
I believe you have to be spinning around on your office chair for this to count.
And reciting it 3 times, but I figured once would suffice.
wasnt there also the middle fingers going up and down or is my memory faulty here
Correct.
I am Nostradamus! plays
Can relate to the thing about food. I'll be taking home the food that was 'out of date' by maybe 30 minutes - 2hrs and people were always questioning why I wasn't sick from it. This from the people that throw out everything in their fridge every week. On the plus side I used to save loads from just acting as waste disposal for their perfectly good food.
Christ I knew a guy who knew the timing of a certain 7-11, they'd throw out their fresh subs every two or four hours or something crazy; they didn't unwrap them, so he'd just come along and grab the ones on top.
Yeah, I knew a lot of dirtbags. :P
I love "best by" dates, mostly because several supermarkets around here sell stuff at 50% off if it's going to expire that day.
You can get really nice dinners for 1-2€. Not the cheap frozen microwave stuff either but their "gourmet" line with fresh vegetables, salads and expensive ingredients like .... uhh ... salmon (not fried though) and stuff that actually looks like what it's supposed to be, not some ground up chunks that have vaguely the right color.
I always make sure to check their discount shelf to see whats for dinner that week. You can't beat those prices and they last for several days in the fridge. Even dairy products last for weeks past the best-by date. If it doesn't smell funny or tastes funny its fine.
I buy at least half of my meat like that. It will be two or three days from the date, which is totally fine because I have in my head I'm going to cook it in the next few days anyway. High priced cuts of meat for the price of the cheap stuff. I haven't looked for fish before, maybe I should. I'm really bad at cooking fish but it would be an opportunity to learn I guess.
I've never seen that type of deal on vegetables. They are usually pretty cheap anyway where I am. The people that say they can't afford to eat healthy are just lazy. Fresh fruit and vegetables are usually the cheapest food I buy.
Similar stuff from some supermarkets in the UK. Go at the right time and you can get things for quite literally 10 pence or even lower.
800g loaf of bread? 10p.
Buy three if there are that many left and freeze them all.
Make-your-own coleslaw packs? 6p each. Get a couple or more if able and you have meal sides for at least a week for less than 20 pence.
It does come down to luck of the draw at times and you need to be prompt sometimes as it's not a secret this happens, but with consideration you can spend fractions of produce that can be properly kept for a long time after those best before labels say.
I can only imagine that the type of person to do this was someone who's never truly gone hungry.
Yeah, I was getting too much food. Couldn't eat it all, and they put mayo on everything. (The racists might have a point about the white upper-middle class obsession with mayo).
Maybe I'm showing my origins here but wtf taking home that sort of food's perfectly sensible imo.
It's the middle-class, bro.
They are so weird. I never used to believe that there were major class differences between populations. Like, it doesn't matter how much money a person has, if they have similar values, they'll look basically the same. But that's just not true. The middle class are fucking alien. I grew up poor and mostly rural so their entire perspective on reality is contrary to mine. I couldn't relate to any of them if I weren't surrounded by nerds.
Then, of course, there are the suburbanite mid-wits which I simply have never been able to stand.
Class is more of a divider than race or religion. No question.
As someone who was working poor for most of my life and who recently joined the middle class in the last three years (looks like I will be back to my roots soon though) I totally agree. People in the middle class who have not known anything else are weird/ignorant of much of the hardship. It's pretty fucked up.
Just keep saving that money... as gold and silver, frankly.
Will do my best to try at this point with what I have left. Savings have been wiped thanks to the "progressive" quarantine here in MI. Even ended up leaving the field of law because I no longer see a point in it. Been a hell of a couple of months and the worst is yet to come.
My biggest advice is to not get stuck in one place. On my own hard times, I've learned well that it's best to be homeless than to be carless. Find a job first, to keep the money coming in. The field of law is probably not that useless for income, but I don't know the local area. It is also possible that you can move to a different field to learn a job that might be still be in need of your fundamental skills (even if it's things like reading contracts, writing instructions, doing research, etc).
Your primary object should be to avoid limiting yourself, so that you can find solid ground to stand on first, even if it might require a more significant change.
The best tasting food on the planet is literally anything, when starving
The second best food is "shit I didn't have to make or pay for". If I worked at your place, I'd wrestle you for it
Except I'm a cripple now, so that'd be poor sportsmanship on your part to agree. Just gimme the shit already!
NO HAND OUTS LIBERAL
It was pretty shocking to find out how many people just don't have any savings. Another one was school lunches, it was appalling to find out so many parents rely on schools to feed their kids, it's literally one of the absolute most basic responsibilities of a parent, and they rely on a third party to ensure their own child has something to eat.
I have to wonder if this would be such a problem if schools didn't feed kids. I know schools in my area provide the equivalent of 3 meals per day, and a big concern was that if schools were closed, the kids wouldn't eat.
Well, I can't say I blame the parents for taking advantage of a service that's available to them. But do they actually need to? Or is it just convenience/laziness?
I had school lunches as a kid, but always had cooked food at home for dinner. I think it's just convenient and/or cheap.
They always put the fun stuff before the shit you have to do. I can't be all on a high horse and say I was totally financially independent at 23, but I also never would have said that I used to travel and live my life. My early adult life was a slog of working to live and pay for education at the same time and while I did have a little money for fun, we are talking a little. I don't think I could have spent a night in a hotel "traveling" without a month of saving fun money. It was also totally worth it for the kick-start it gave me on the rest of my life.
I'm not sure how I became a saver though growing up around so many bad with money people. I still wouldn't call myself a really tough saver anymore, but I maintain what I have and keep my monthly expenses as low as possible (I hate monthly recurring expenses).
I'd never say to not have nice things like a lot of financial advice, if you want to travel, get a nice car, whatever go for it--at the right time. That's key and it's why I have loads of friends and family that have damn good jobs/income that would be at the food bank in a month in their fancy extremely-leverage purchased car if their income stopped.
This is a much bigger determining factor to long-term wealth than people realize. Keeping your monthly expenses low allows you to save more of each paycheck while still allowing for occasional impulse purchases which over time average out and are lost in the noise.
The other day I was looking at bank account interest rates and wondering how I could squeeze a bit of extra return out of some emergency cash, and I concluded that if I did nothing but cancel netflix I'd end up with several orders of magnitude higher return than if I invested that money in the short-term treasuries I was considering.
Yeah as I was reading more of this having turned into personal finance talk, I was really thinking if I was to give some piece of advice it wouldn't be the spiel about buying unnecessary items, or fancy cars, or any of that. It would be about not signing up for monthly recurring stuff.
I had someone just recently tell me I just "need to accept that I'm going to pay $30 a month for a cell phone forever", for the whole payment plan thing. Uh, no thanks. If there's something big enough cost I end up budgeting it as a monthly expense myself and saving it. I could do that with a phone, throw that $30 a month into savings account and before you know it I can buy a phone and if in the meantime the shit hits the fan I've got a little extra in the bank and owe less to the phone company. I've graduated more to using this method on bigger things like cars, but the concept stays exactly the same.
I used to have those discussions with my parents when I started out own my own. They'd talk about the need to do stuff like clip coupons and reuse ziplock bags and aluminum foil. I'd tell them "Or I could drop my housing expenses by $100/month and buy all the ziplock bags and aluminum foil I'd ever need".
I'm not opposed to buying stuff on sale, but it's small potatoes compared to things like rent.
I wonder why...
its really terrible money management.
There have been times where I haven't had enough money. I live pretty comfortably now because I always make sure to have a few hundred in my account just so I can pay rent and stuff but when you don't have that buffer, you do stress. One time I went shopping and my card was declined so I went to a nearby ATM, took out money from that and had enough in my wallet so I could get groceries with that. And I also grew up poor and that frame of mindset is what sticks with you. Because when I see my friend has spent 30K on a new car, I'm not really jealous because he worked hard for that I just wonder what I could do with 30K and I usually draw a blank because I have everything I need to survive now.
I dunno, it's just weird cause living that far down the hole to the point of where you're living in a condemned house, when you managed to claw yourself out and you have disposable income to spend on something or anything, you're not really sure what to do with it.
Try investing your money in one thing or another. Do not waste it on an expensive car or resorts or stuff like that. I'm looking at me and my neighbors that have expensive cars and go on expensive trips, I do not see them being happier then I am. I've never bought a new car in my life and I still buy most things on discounts. Even my house, I bought it early, during construction for the discount.
Like you I was not raised with money, I was not poor but we did not have a lot and as a consequence I'm happy with little and I do not like to waste money.
See, that's a mistake to me.
We used cars all my life because we've got mechanical know how in our family. Then Cash For Clunkers came along, and you're god damned right I took advantage of that.
I also disagree with the Mises institute on this because they don't really seem to understand the problems of owning a used car. It only makes sense if you repair it yourself, and if you have one used car and no others, you're a god damned idiot. You need two used cars. One that runs, and the other that you're repairing. We've had three before, and we still ran into an incident where all 3 broke down in the same time frame. Used cars take an absolutely enormous toll on time and mechanical effort.
The new car I bought, I've just maintained properly. I hit it's first major repair at 80,000 miles. Buying a new car, means you don't need two. I think the optimal situation would be a new car and a used car later on of the same type and age that you can use as a parts car.
A new car, if well maintained, cost less than the best used car you can buy.
I'm not that good with cars. I can fix some easy stuff and I know what most of the components are but that is about it. I've not had much problems with them. Currently I have a 2012 Ford Kuga that did not break on me once. My only complain about it is that the engineers who designed it are sadistic, it's a pain to change the oil filter or the battery, a problem that newer version do not have. I usually keep a car for 2-3 years and then change it. A good argument against it would be that rather then buy 2 cars in 6 years you get one new car and have it for 6 years. I'm honestly not sure, but so far I've not had reasons to regret.
I'm not a fan of the car, but the price was good and is barely big enough for what I need.
They're not sadistic, they just threw the dealerships a bone so that more people would come in.
That's basically what I have. A good new car for ten years.
Eh, I've bought a used car with the express knowledge that I'm going to destroy it - small car plus 20,000mi/year means that the car's going to die, it's just a matter of when.
Still, managed to make enough of that 20,000mi/year business expenses that I made the purchase price back, which was the point.
Yeah, that bitch is gone. That's fair enough.
Did pretty well, though - held up to that sort of treatment for two-and-a-bit years.
That is a good car.
Are you buying $600 used cars or something?
multi thousand dollar cars
Insert Toyota meme.
I'd buy a Toyota pickup truck. It comes with an endorsement from the Taliban for reliability, so it must be good.
There's this car mechanic guy on youtube who swears up and down Toyotas are the most reliable ever.
Not the fastest, comfortable or newest, but they run a long time with simple maintainence.
Check the used car listings in your area. If Toyotas hold their value best, then the guy was right.
Can confirm. Had a 99 Toyota Camry last me from when I bought it at 120k milesand was still hanging in there when I sold it at 320k miles.
I seriously doubt this.
I've owned exclusively used cars throughout my life. I keep up the maintenance on them, pay attention when the check engine light comes on, and maybe have to do a minor repair ($100-500) once every 2-3 years.
I've been left "stranded" exactly two times in my life; once when a timing element sensor in my '95 Mustang died, so the engine didn't know when to fire. Once when the alternator on a '98 Grand Am crapped out, so the battery died. In both cases, the cars were up and running again before the end of the day, and I was able to get myself to my destination via alternate means.
A subscription to AAA is absolutely worth it though, just for the peace of mind. Being able to call a single number for help anywhere in the US is extremely handy.
Just do your homework on the vehicle before you buy; there are car forums all over the place that will tell you everything you need to know about older cars and whether they're likely to have problems.
I don't care if you doubt it, I lived it. I got real sick and tired of going into the garage to repair one of our cars once a month. I was genuinely happy when I realized that I'd been driving 6 months in a new car and hadn't once needed to actually fix anything. I was even more ecstatic when that turned into a year... then into 2, then 3. If my car finally goes, I will cry because it has been the most loyal and enduring partner in my life. I've been able to depend on it more than my friends.
Thanks to cash for clunkers, I've only spend a grand total of maybe $8,000 - $9,000 on my car including all repairs and maintenance. First moderate problem was at 80,000 miles (tie-rod went bad). I've never had a used car do that. NEVER. If I buy a used car in January, it need repaired by June.
Hell, one of my friends bought a vehicle with no issues at all around 80,000 miles. The car literally started falling to pieces. Alternator, power steering, ignition coil, cluch, all of them seemed to die between 85k-90k miles. Then his door fell off.
From now on, I'm only buying new cars, or I'm buying two identical used cars. Never one.
I'd spend $100-$500 every 3-6 months on every car. Nobody ever took good care of their cars, and worse, the cars were basically designed to fail.
This was during the popularity of the 2-3 year lease, so we'd have cars that were already shitting the bed at 40k-50k miles.
I've had it for years. I actually still have it now, but when I was living out of my new car, I sometimes lost charge on the battery by accident. (Might fall asleep with something running inside the car). So I just went out and bought one of $300 those handy-dandy portable battery jumpers & air compressors. It's totally worth it for yourself, if not for others.
Having grown up with a dad who ran his own business I can say that being intimately aware of what it actually took for the new car to sit in the garage and the nice house we lived in has much the same effect.
Knowing where your food comes from makes you appreciate it a hell of a lot more.
Honestly, its amazing how many people grew up poor that it didn't stick with them. They fall into the same cycle of cigs, snacks, and beer that kept their parents broke. But now its weed, vapes, and 7 streaming sites.
But I second that "what do I even do with this income" problem. People hate me for Christmas because I literally want nothing. If I wanted it, I already bought it because I had the money. Instead I just keep saving and considering a 20$ knick knack (shit I love knick knacks) my monthly splurge.
My dad worked with this one guy for something like 30 years. Both did the same job and made the same amount of money. My dad managed to raise a family and now has a comfortable retirement, his coworker blew all his money at the casino and is constantly broke.
Some people are just incapable of competently taking care of themselves, and no charity or government program is going to change that.
I spent 20 fucking years like that. A bad relationship led to a gap in employment, which led to a lot of really bad bullshit.
I was just lucky enough to meet someone coming from the same sort of abuse-boat as I was just escaping, and we ditched our garbage together, we're still in the act of flying right, but at least we have a few thousand between us now.
I repent about 90% of my entire life (beyond and separate from the curse of being born human), and simply wish to look forward to whatever bullshit is about to hit.
If I had my time back, I'd join the army on my 18th birthday, gulf war notwithstanding.
This is one of the most dangerous things that nobody gets told. I didn't realize just how bad a gap in employment is for literally any job whatsoever. I learned the hardway, looking for a job which I would be qualified for, and it was a disaster. It was such a disaster, that I got offers from department heads, and HR would take one look at my resume and I'd never hear from anyone again.
Then I included a job working with my family for the year that I was searching in my resume.
I got 6 job offers in a week.
Is there a word for happy-angry? I was definitely that.
This is why I would rarely discourage people from the military. It seems to be (and has been since the New Model Army in the 1600's), the most effective social mobility program on Earth. If I had stayed military, I'd probably be way better off now than I am today, but I did want to go to college. It didn't go so hot. I don't regret it except for the cost and wasted time, but I plan on working what I learned into a career through a more convoluted route. However, if someone's trying to get out of a bad way, going military has rarely been a bad option for them.
It's only bad for people who are so terrible with authority that they get themselves in a shit load of trouble, or if they get stuck in a really bad unit and start doing toxic things to themselves.
:/ A lot of what I was taught was too old, I think. "Volunteer, it'll look good on a resume". Ha. Ask me about "responsibilty creep". I just got flagged as a chump who'll work for free ...
I was in army cadets as a teenager, at least I got some "basic" training; but I do remmeber each year we'd lose more than half of a new crop of recruits because they didn't like being yelled at and told what to do. For some reason, people confuse military cadets with scouts. Our cadets are part of the DND military structure.
Back in high school, I had a class where all we did was watch Dave Ramsey.
I don’t remember what the class was supposed to be, but that class has helped me out quite a bit.
Most people in my class probably ignored it, and we all thought it was kind of stupid at the time, but I am glad I actually paid attention.
I’ve made it a point to save as much as my income as reasonably possible, but a bad girlfriend (now ex) did take advantage of it for a bit.
I have been building a decent chunk of saving and currently work an “essential job” making $11 per hour, so I’m going okay for now.
I think when I was in school we learned a few things about how to balance a checkbook and other things that I'm not sure mesh all that well in a world that had already become mostly plastic cards and online banking. I don't recall ever hearing anything about debt and why it sucks, or saving money, any of that crap.
Dave Ramsey irritates me at times, but damn if he doesn't tell people to get over their excuses and do something about it. I think it may have been more of a person I knew that was a Dave Ramsey nut that irritated me, he'd always gripe about me using my credit card to buy stuff.
I use credit cards all the time for the cashback and rewards. Even have specific cards for gas, take-out, groceries, etc. Used to churn for a bit, but I stopped since it was getting too time-consuming. As long as you pay the statement balance every month, the interest APR is irrelevant.
That said, I do agree that credit cards will make you more prone to spending, since it's abstract numbers in a computer and not physical cash disappearing from your wallet. But these people usually use a debit card, which is just as bad if not worse.
I know we didn't have anything like that. I'm just glad I took gr 11 three-book accounting - books, not computers, and calculators were banned. (This was maybe 1984.)
But then, I grew up in a weird transitional period, a lot of what I was taught was too old by the time I might have used it.
I've never had any money cause my brain is a bit 'different'...I don't need anything in particular so I've never tried to get much.
I'm a lot better set now than I have been before mainly cause I'm getting old and living by the seat of your pants gets a bit tiring at my age...but I'm still a pauper by most peoples opulent standards.
I dunno, I usually assume Reddit sob stories are a lie anyway.