How does Deuteronomy 28 not completely refute all of Zionism?
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The same way it works in all Christian/Jewish religion.
Ignore or rules lawyer the parts you don't like to allow you to live exactly like you want, while claiming to adhere super strictly to some other rules to give you that sanctimonious superiority complex.
Its how you get things like women and gays being allowed to live or act as they do, or the Jews thinking they can dissect a word so hard that it allows them to ignore the entire sentence and point of it in the first place.
Or they just don't read it at all, and just claim to be part of the group with a generalized knowledge. Most Jews are "culturally Jewish" for this reason, where the only thing linking them to the label is being born that way and keeping it for victim points.
“All we have to do is tie a string around the entire world and then we can sin all we want!” ~ jews
That’s why.
But how to account for “Christian” zionism - or rather, how to show the hoodwinked masses the reality of things?
The hoodwinked masses don't read or discuss the Bible beyond their sanctioned "Church" stories they get on Sundays. They follow along with "suggested passages", Christian bookstore "workbooks", Church group "discussion guides", or passage-a-day books, etc. If they even go that far. Many are Christian in name only.
Most never get the whole truth. It's that simple.
Just pull up Matthew 2:6: "But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for out of you will come a ruler who will shepherd my people Israel.”
It says a ruler will shepherd the people of Israel (not some of them, not a new kind of people, it's all of Israel).
Considering the ruler in question is Jesus, who are the people who follow Jesus?
Oh I know this one! The people who murdered Him, believe that He is boiling in shit in hell, and hold to an identity rooted in their hatred and rejection of Him!
(Yeah, I'm a dispensationalist, how could you tell?)
The slack jaw, vacent eyes, drool and being my in laws gave it away.
Hi Mildred. You are about the 15th person to allude to the most misquoted text anywhere on Scored.
That reads like a bunch nonsence to try to get around the fact it says Jesus is boiling in excrement.
Depends on your definition on "Jesus", "is", "boiling", "in", and "excrement". Other than that, perfectly clear.
Or, you could actually, you know, learn. It wouldn't kill you, I promise.
I did read it. "When they said Jesus, they didn't mean Jesus Jesus" Yeah they did. When they say Titus, they mean Titus. They hate Titus because he destroyed the physical temple. When they say Jesus, they mean Jesus because He destroyed their spiritual temple.
Also, funny wordplay: When we say "Gas the Jews" there is multiple, subtle layers humorously interplaying there.
"Gas" could refer to not just the de-lousing agents, it also calls to mind flatulence, which is often offensive to everyone else around but not to the one who actually caused it. Just like jewery is repulsive to everyone else in society except the jews that commit it.
Also, by "Jews" we don't necessarily mean the demonic religion that wears ancient Hebrew spirituality as a skinsuit to cover their abhorrent behavior... because then we wouldn't have capitalized it.
I have no idea why you think your train of thought here might be relevant. It's not.
The context of the arcane bit from the Talmud you're obsessing over cannot be understood until you know what the Talmud is, what it's written for, and how it's used.
You don't.
Neither am I saying it's important, and I certainly don't think it's worth the effort to study. First of all you should realize that well over 70% of all US Jews give no credence or consideration to the Talmud whatsoever. Smaller groups of them including Conservatives and Orthodox do, but very few of them spend any time reading it and almost none of them ever read the whole thing. And the few who do don't place any emphasis on bizarre bits like what you're focused on here.
Context.
Funny how there's supposedly many candidates for who that Leviticus-ignoring(10:31) rabbi was speaking with, yet apologists for the Christ-haters never name them.
In my Talmud quotes compilation, I do name the primary two other candidates who contributed to the stock figure "Yeshu" besides Yehoshua of Nazareth. They are Yeshu the Student who served the rabbi ben Perachiah (a rabbi who is yet another Yehoshua) in the early 1st century BC, and Yeshu son of Pappos who was present during the bar Kochba rebellion in the 130s AD. Simple historical inquiry indicates that these were three different people nicknamed Yeshu who fell into disfavor with much of Jewry and so any reference to Yeshu alone is generally an amalgamation of those. In the whole Talmud, besides generic narratives, there is basically one narrative each where a figure can be historically placed, and the narrative for Yehoshua of Nazareth is pretty accurate (he was killed on Passover for stirring up the people, his disciples like Mattai continued teaching his words and were killed for it).
After years of seeing all kinds of things said here about the Talmud, I looked for myself and found the historically accurate parts are pretty easily separated from the exaggerations.
Your reference to ignorance of whatever would be "Lev. 10:31" (you might mean Deut. 18:10-11) seems to mean that Onkelos was not Levitically pure. That's part of the humor of the intended joke, it starts with a taboo before it gets worse and develops its punchline (about how Israel is beloved even in hell). This is spoken of Onkelos when he was a Gentile thinking of conversion, and he never became a rabbi (though he was a translator whose textual work is still used by Christians and Jews). So the point is that even with Onkelos being in total ignorance, he yet received a (humorous) confirmation of the rightness of following Moses, from Yeshu himself, whichever dishonorable Yeshu or Yeshus the author intended.
You may be interested in extended discussion about how Onkelos, being a Gentile convert, is actually my best historical candidate for who Jesus meant by the synagogue of satan. He had fingers in many pies.
This is your brain on zionism
Jesus says twice they are not Jews. I don't know why it's so hard for followers of Jesus to hear Jesus say they are not Jews and to tell him they are Jews. Too much Scofield interpretation going on, methinks, self-deprecating.
I thought of a new one BTW. The fact is that nobody in that century would take "satanic synagogue" as meaning all synagogues were satanic. The fact is that synagogues meant culturally acceptable religiosity anywhere the word was used and rarely had a negative overtone. Logically, by saying "satanic synagogue" Jesus is saying that it's a totally new kind of synagogue, not something that already existed. It's unlike the acceptable ones and is evil in its origin and practice (unlike the understanding about the thousands of others at the time). He explains the reason is that, unlike what would have to be called "traditional synagogues" by contrast, this synagogue was not composed of Jews but of Gentiles who lie that they are Jews. The only reason people read Jesus as saying the opposite of what he said is not listening to his words as they would be understood by his primary audience. Denial of the Shepherd.
Anyway, this is suitable for another thread, even the one I linked. It's a simple matter to trace how the false application of Jesus's words began recently among collectivists. If you wish to defend what I see to be false with your facts and logic, I just complimented you for your handling of similar things including your handling on this thread, so I think we can make headway.
To OP obviously (I just said) Deut. 28 shows that any "Zionism" should admit both the positive and the negative promises to Israel, just like we admit positive and/or negative promises to many other nations in Scripture, notably Egypt and Syria. So it's a good point if it's not taken into collectivism. Some Zionists are big cherry-pickers about promises.
Hey doofus, He also says “they say they are jews” - so until you can explain to the class your special jewdar which lets you tell “the good jews” from “those who say they are jews but are not and do lie”, save your self-righteous indignation and gaslighting for zionist summer camp
Fuck off kike, we have seen through your talmudic tricks ages ago.
Because they ignore the big "if" at the beginning of that scripture. They also ignore the fact that the blessing given to Abraham was specifically passed down to the sons of Joseph, whose tribes are lost. On top of all that Christian zionists ignore the facts that homosexuality is an abomination to the Lord and that their greatest ally is the gayest country in the world.
Zionism is not at all rooted in the Bible.
Zionism was primarily the project of jewish socialists in the 19th century who wanted a socialist Jewish state.
The zionists bankrolled dispensationalism and the printing of the Schofield Bible in the early 1900s and the rest is history.
But for 1900 years, the idea of Christian zionism would have been foreign, nay unthinkable to Christians.
The amount of pilpulling jewish shills in this thread is hardly surprising. Fun to see them all come out of hiding from their other .wins specifically to lecture us on the topic.
Whoa, whoa, you think churchians read the Bible?
Literally read the next two chapters. Ch 30 prophesies the return to the land after exile and the beginning of the cycle again. Choose life and obedience. Jesus preached repentance. Moses warned them beforehand to not choose to need repentance. A good Father disciplines his sons.
Yes, but the key here is to TURN AWAY -- and none of them have turned away nor gone back to the promise upon which the Covenant was made (i.e,. see Ahaus667 quoting Deuteronomy 30:15-18).
All of first and second Kings has every single prophet of God repeating what was said in Deuteronomy (with far few and of the rulers in Judah adhering to them). A good example is 2 Kings 22:16-28; while scriptures such as Jeremiah 33:17 and Isaiah 66:8-10 reiterate that point ad nauseam.
It's like being told you'll receive a fancy five-star meal whilst keeping your hand out of the cookie jar and to NEVER put your hand back in the cookie jar.
They still have their hand in the cookie jar.
You must not know many Jews. There's more ppl of Jewish heritage who follow Jesus today than in the first century. Estimates I've seen reach nearly 2 million. Even many of those who don't pledge allegiance to Jesus as Messiah are not hostile towards him but are waiting for the rest of the plan to come to fruition to verify his messianic claim. God is working all things together in his perfect timing for the good of those who love Him and are called according to his purposes.
This is one of the most disingenuous things I've read in a while. Take a fucking look around. Most jews hate Jesus and despise Christians. Your comment is the equivalent of mostly peaceful protestors.
A handful of poor examples doesn't outweigh the good going on in 2 million people. We could make similar comparisons for any ethnic group.
What? If he plan comes to fruition they burn eternally, might want to reeducate them on that…
They will see Him in the flesh and believe, same as St. Thomas. In the meantime, the Spirit is doing his work on the earth through the children who obey His voice and share His words with the natural branches. There is no enmity between the natural and the grafted.
That’s kinda a problem according to the Bible, are you saying the grafted are denying gods will? Again there no wiggle room here, Deuteronomy is very clear and Zionists are denying gods will.
Jesus removes enmity between the natural and the grafted. The enmity that remains is between those who arent in Christ and the natural branches.
Repeating your proposition doesn't make it true. Many other verses by several pther authors about regathering the exiles to the land and being forgiven by God. enjoy your strong delusion.
Can you name anywhere in the Bible where it says Jews are allowed to worship false gods and remain part of the pact? I’m still waiting…
No it doesn’t. 30 literally says if you go against god you will be cursed again.
Zionism is completely refuted by Deuteronomy
Sure. God promised to bring them back to the land after exile. If they serve other gods upon return, those that are back in the land wont last that long. Doesn't negate that he's bringing them back! Hallelujah, God keeps his promises. And in our day, a modern miracle. Very cool. Since he keeps promises to Israel, Christians can trust him to keep the promises he made to those who serve the King of the Jews too. He is faithful when we are faithless. The same yesterday, today, and forever.
Yes and it completely refutes Zionism. They are serving false gods currently, there’s no wiggle room on this, they deny gods will. Zionism is a denial of gods will.
Israel is repopulated according to the will of God, prophesied thousands of years ago. His enemies gnash their teeth, but cannot stop what is coming.
And they’re Christian now? No? Fascinating
Nearly 2 million are in the world, according to estimates. God is removing the blinders he placed on them in his own timing. Fascinating indeed.
Can you name anywhere in the Bible where it says Jews are allowed to worship false gods and remain part of the pact? I’m still waiting…