Hang on, from the screenshot provided don't we HAVE a measles vaccine that has existed and been tested for DECADES?
I get it, vaccines shouldn't be pushed on people especially when they are still experimental barely a year old but conflating that with ones that are decades old and we know the potential side effects and what can trigger them seems like malicious interpretation.
The MMR vaccine was the one originally implicated in the Andrew Wakefield autism claims and later questioned in more modern times after Wakefield was discredited.
TBH, I don’t know who to believe anymore for a lot of this stuff.
I do agree that I'm less concerned about older vaccine platforms with longer track
records.
Also less Big Pharma shenanigans present day because there's less profit to be made in old products off patent.
Some of these diseases are also actually serious as opposed to the gayop that was COVID.
Mumps, one of the 3 viruses the MMR vaccine tries to prevent, causes sterility in boys and men.
Exactly, I get the concern about vaccines especially MMR, I just don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and get rid of older vaccines that we know work and that vaccinate against the diseases the third world is riddled with.
We know the old vaccines work, but we don't really know their long-term side effects.
And the way to find out is from what RFKj said: we need herd immunity to protect unvaccinated people so more normal people choose to skip vaccination.
If it's just the crazies that don't get their kids vaccinated then any result is heavily selection biased. Ideally we would assign kids randomly to not get a particular vaccine or any vaccines, and the only way most parents would go along with that is if enough others are vaccinated that they feel their kids will be protected.
Three scientists from Merk sued the company alleging the MMR vaccine does literally nothing. The cell cultures they use to make it are so old and weak they no longer trigger any immune response. As far as I know the case has been delayed for 10 years and is still ongoing.
Then how come with all these illegals bringing measles in there's not tons of measles cases?
Measles has an insane R15 infection rate, meaning if you get it then you give it to 15 other people on average. If you look at somebody with measles then you have measles... Covid was around R2.
If the vaccine wasn't working we wouldn't be getting outbreaks of 5 people here, 10 people there - it'd be an entire school. And then every young person in the town.
And who is getting measles: "146 cases ... 79 of the confirmed cases involved individuals who had not received the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine, while 62 cases had unknown vaccine status." So at least 62 are illegal immigrants, probably most of the others as well. So 5 cases of vaccinated, which is sensible since some people will not develop immunity for whatever reason (injected into a vein probably).
1)that these are decade old vaccines with no change in production process since original debut. X for doubt.
that they were ever safe in the first place.
And (3) albeit more controversial. that vaccines actually abate disease at all. Measals for example had a death rate the of 10 per 100,000 in 1919. This had reduced to 1/100,000 in 1965 BEFORE a vaccine was even available.
The cdc will tell you that MMR is 93% effective, but the they’ll also admit you can still get measles and they wont tell you how they came up with a 93% number in the first place.
The cdc will tell you that MMR is 93% effective, but the they’ll also admit you can still get measles and they wont tell you how they came up with a 93% number in the first place.
Yeah, this shit is so fucking dirty. They did the same with covid, just more blatant.
I wouldn't say vaccines don't work at all, although I agree their usefulness is almost certainly exaggerated. But measles outbreaks generally seem to hit the unvaccinated...or maybe those are the only ones that get reported on, I'd have to look into it more. Point is, here you have measles spreading specifically among those without the vaccine, so it's likely the vaccine does work to some extent.
That said, there's still the question of if the vaccine is necessary (measles is, while not completely harmless, still relatively harmless in children), if the vaccine benefits outweigh potential side effects, what the long-term effects on overall immune response is, and more.
But measles outbreaks generally seem to hit the unvaccinated...
False look up 1989 measles outbreak among vaxxed kids.
or maybe those are the only ones that get reported on
Yes
wouldn't say vaccines don't work at all, although I agree their usefulness is almost certainly exaggerated
CDC doesn’t want you to look at Measels case instance per capita between 1967 and 1990 because it clearly shows vaccination rate does not prevent spread.
Even in 1920 your chance of getting measles was 0.1% with a rate of death to 0.01%
By 1960 these rates reduced by 10x to 0.01% and 0.001% respectively. Again. Pre vax.
“Nah fam, inject yourself with poison, not worth the risk”
For perspective. If you take this at face value. You had a higher risk for “dying from covid” at 0.2% per capita than from measles in at any point during the last 100 years
Vaccines are a scam. The reason disease rates are down is because of first world hygiene standards. Not injections
They don't even have to find measels virus in their patients to declare a marked outbreak. All it required is the right symptoms and enough time passed since the last outbreak.
He might not be "antivax" across the board, but he has been (rightly, in my opinion) extremely critical of overvaccination of children, and the MMR vaccine fits squarely in that category.
This might not be a full flip in stances, but he's definitely flipping his tone. Personally, I don't like to see him play the game like this. Juist like with Trump, his opponents are going to hate him no matter what. Don't compromise your principles just to get in the good graces of your brainwashed and often evil opposition.
If you read the article itself it's much more balanced than the headline shows, but he's still trying to moderate his past stances, and I think that's counterproductive, since I think his previous non-politician stance was the correct one.
I've listened to him talk for hours at a time about vaccines and the tone I heard was against no-liability, no-testing, and an excessive schedule.
So what's the change? Can you actually point to any time he's said anything that would make you think he'd call for parents not to give their kids MMR vaccine?
MMR doesn't fit in the overvaccination category because these are diseases that are very transmissible and damaging to kids and so hard to eradicate that they'll be ever present.
It's not as bad as the headline makes it out, but I'm still not a fan of RFK playing the game.
He gets some good counter-information in at least, though.
Prior to the introduction of the vaccine in the 1960s, virtually every child in the United States contracted measles. For example, in the United States, from 1953 to 1962, on average there were 530,217 confirmed cases and 440 deaths, a case fatality rate of 1 in 1,205 cases.
And.
It is also our responsibility to provide up-to-date guidance on available therapeutic medications. While there is no approved antiviral for those who may be infected, CDC has recently updated their recommendation supporting administration of vitamin A under the supervision of a physician for those with mild, moderate, and severe infection. Studies have found that vitamin A can dramatically reduce measles mortality.
And.
Tens of thousands died with, or of, measles annually in 19th Century America. By 1960 -- before the vaccine’s introduction -- improvements in sanitation and nutrition had eliminated 98% of measles deaths. Good nutrition remains a best defense against most chronic and infectious illnesses. Vitamins A, C, and D, and foods rich in vitamins B12, C, and E should be part of a balanced diet.
So, he's being a snakey politician here, and talking out both sides of his mouth. He's saying it's not a huge deal, and there are other ways to fight it...while also saying you should 'consult your doctor' and stuff...when he knows that means they'll be recommended the MMR childhood vaccine, which he's railed again. Not a fan.
Parents play a pivotal role in safeguarding their children’s health. All parents should consult with their healthcare providers to understand their options to get the MMR vaccine. The decision to vaccinate is a personal one. Vaccines not only protect individual children from measles, but also contribute to community immunity, protecting those who are unable to be vaccinated due to medical reasons.
Yeah, no thanks. Bobby, you think the MMR vaccine is dangerous, why are you saying kids should get it?
The difference being the MMR vaccine is a vaccine that actually does what it claims to do. The potential side effects mean it's not a good idea to universally push it, but if there's an outbreak it makes sense to use it.
I get it, I get it. You heard aseptic meningitis and thought spergies.
Perfectly naturally. Take your "Banned" information and report to the Bureau of Science for an award.
The clot shot Fauci ouchy is the highest accolade of the Darwin awards. Smile for the birdie when you get it! :)
With that out of the way measles and rubella vaccines are still standard in Japan with mumps being an optional shot which most parents ask for.
Regardless outbreaks of all 3 have been minimal, as expected in a vaccine haven, while aseptic meningitis outbreaks have risen in those without the mumps vaccine.
The causation between mumps and aseptic meningitis is being studied.
So measles kills less children than covid kills 70+ year-olds? What a weird comparison.
Some actual numbers: 500,000 cases/yr and 500 deaths out of ~3-4 million infections after good nutrition, before vaccination.
People on one side say "1 in 1000 that's a lot of preventable deaths" and that's spin because it's of cases not infections. Other side says 1 in 8000 die - that's a rounding error it's so small.
But not just looking at deaths, 1 out 6 getting sick enough to go to the doctor is pretty large. That's a lot of people in that group who will be permanently scarred externally and probably internally as well.
It's almost totally preventable with a vaccine - now whether this particular vaccine is safe and should be given is a different matter, but absolutely you should take a safe vaccine for measles if you can.
Hang on, from the screenshot provided don't we HAVE a measles vaccine that has existed and been tested for DECADES?
I get it, vaccines shouldn't be pushed on people especially when they are still experimental barely a year old but conflating that with ones that are decades old and we know the potential side effects and what can trigger them seems like malicious interpretation.
The MMR vaccine was the one originally implicated in the Andrew Wakefield autism claims and later questioned in more modern times after Wakefield was discredited.
TBH, I don’t know who to believe anymore for a lot of this stuff.
I do agree that I'm less concerned about older vaccine platforms with longer track records.
Also less Big Pharma shenanigans present day because there's less profit to be made in old products off patent.
Some of these diseases are also actually serious as opposed to the gayop that was COVID.
Mumps, one of the 3 viruses the MMR vaccine tries to prevent, causes sterility in boys and men.
Exactly, I get the concern about vaccines especially MMR, I just don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and get rid of older vaccines that we know work and that vaccinate against the diseases the third world is riddled with.
We know the old vaccines work, but we don't really know their long-term side effects.
And the way to find out is from what RFKj said: we need herd immunity to protect unvaccinated people so more normal people choose to skip vaccination.
If it's just the crazies that don't get their kids vaccinated then any result is heavily selection biased. Ideally we would assign kids randomly to not get a particular vaccine or any vaccines, and the only way most parents would go along with that is if enough others are vaccinated that they feel their kids will be protected.
Three scientists from Merk sued the company alleging the MMR vaccine does literally nothing. The cell cultures they use to make it are so old and weak they no longer trigger any immune response. As far as I know the case has been delayed for 10 years and is still ongoing.
Then how come with all these illegals bringing measles in there's not tons of measles cases?
Measles has an insane R15 infection rate, meaning if you get it then you give it to 15 other people on average. If you look at somebody with measles then you have measles... Covid was around R2.
If the vaccine wasn't working we wouldn't be getting outbreaks of 5 people here, 10 people there - it'd be an entire school. And then every young person in the town.
And who is getting measles: "146 cases ... 79 of the confirmed cases involved individuals who had not received the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine, while 62 cases had unknown vaccine status." So at least 62 are illegal immigrants, probably most of the others as well. So 5 cases of vaccinated, which is sensible since some people will not develop immunity for whatever reason (injected into a vein probably).
"I trust Pfizer with this one but the other one is a death wish"
The assumption
1)that these are decade old vaccines with no change in production process since original debut. X for doubt.
And (3) albeit more controversial. that vaccines actually abate disease at all. Measals for example had a death rate the of 10 per 100,000 in 1919. This had reduced to 1/100,000 in 1965 BEFORE a vaccine was even available.
The cdc will tell you that MMR is 93% effective, but the they’ll also admit you can still get measles and they wont tell you how they came up with a 93% number in the first place.
Yeah, this shit is so fucking dirty. They did the same with covid, just more blatant.
I wouldn't say vaccines don't work at all, although I agree their usefulness is almost certainly exaggerated. But measles outbreaks generally seem to hit the unvaccinated...or maybe those are the only ones that get reported on, I'd have to look into it more. Point is, here you have measles spreading specifically among those without the vaccine, so it's likely the vaccine does work to some extent.
That said, there's still the question of if the vaccine is necessary (measles is, while not completely harmless, still relatively harmless in children), if the vaccine benefits outweigh potential side effects, what the long-term effects on overall immune response is, and more.
False look up 1989 measles outbreak among vaxxed kids.
Yes
CDC doesn’t want you to look at Measels case instance per capita between 1967 and 1990 because it clearly shows vaccination rate does not prevent spread.
Even in 1920 your chance of getting measles was 0.1% with a rate of death to 0.01%
By 1960 these rates reduced by 10x to 0.01% and 0.001% respectively. Again. Pre vax.
“Nah fam, inject yourself with poison, not worth the risk”
For perspective. If you take this at face value. You had a higher risk for “dying from covid” at 0.2% per capita than from measles in at any point during the last 100 years
Vaccines are a scam. The reason disease rates are down is because of first world hygiene standards. Not injections
They don't even have to find measels virus in their patients to declare a marked outbreak. All it required is the right symptoms and enough time passed since the last outbreak.
Existed, yes. Tested, no. None of the vaccines in the childhood schedule have been properly tested against inert placebos.
Bingo. The population has blindly accepted that these others work and antivaxxers are all just flat earther idiots.
The MMR vaccine is the one that is anecdotally linked to severe neurological damage.
While measles is highly contagious, it's not terribly lethal. The issue is pneumonia, which can't be vaccinated against.
1 per 100 000 fatality rate for measels. About the rate of unfortunate kids who would die of any infection in a matter or months / few years.
Mmm fetal bovine serum
Did OP ever listen to RFKj? He's never been against vaccines in general, only for them to be properly tested.
This is only 'flipping' if you get your news from NPR or some leftist anti-RFK source.
He might not be "antivax" across the board, but he has been (rightly, in my opinion) extremely critical of overvaccination of children, and the MMR vaccine fits squarely in that category.
This might not be a full flip in stances, but he's definitely flipping his tone. Personally, I don't like to see him play the game like this. Juist like with Trump, his opponents are going to hate him no matter what. Don't compromise your principles just to get in the good graces of your brainwashed and often evil opposition.
If you read the article itself it's much more balanced than the headline shows, but he's still trying to moderate his past stances, and I think that's counterproductive, since I think his previous non-politician stance was the correct one.
I've listened to him talk for hours at a time about vaccines and the tone I heard was against no-liability, no-testing, and an excessive schedule.
So what's the change? Can you actually point to any time he's said anything that would make you think he'd call for parents not to give their kids MMR vaccine?
MMR doesn't fit in the overvaccination category because these are diseases that are very transmissible and damaging to kids and so hard to eradicate that they'll be ever present.
MMR vaccine includes some adjuvants that have never been tested.
RFK simply called for them to be tested properly :
https://x.com/nightwatchn8/status/1896843916714066075
Article archive.
It's not as bad as the headline makes it out, but I'm still not a fan of RFK playing the game.
He gets some good counter-information in at least, though.
And.
And.
So, he's being a snakey politician here, and talking out both sides of his mouth. He's saying it's not a huge deal, and there are other ways to fight it...while also saying you should 'consult your doctor' and stuff...when he knows that means they'll be recommended the MMR childhood vaccine, which he's railed again. Not a fan.
Yeah, no thanks. Bobby, you think the MMR vaccine is dangerous, why are you saying kids should get it?
The difference being the MMR vaccine is a vaccine that actually does what it claims to do. The potential side effects mean it's not a good idea to universally push it, but if there's an outbreak it makes sense to use it.
All measles outbreaks are among the vaccinated anyway
Ditch the MMR, watch thousands of children die, readopt the MMR - easy!
MMR vaccine is banned in Japan.
Did thousands die?
I get it, I get it. You heard aseptic meningitis and thought spergies.
Perfectly naturally. Take your "Banned" information and report to the Bureau of Science for an award.
The clot shot Fauci ouchy is the highest accolade of the Darwin awards. Smile for the birdie when you get it! :)
With that out of the way measles and rubella vaccines are still standard in Japan with mumps being an optional shot which most parents ask for.
Regardless outbreaks of all 3 have been minimal, as expected in a vaccine haven, while aseptic meningitis outbreaks have risen in those without the mumps vaccine.
The causation between mumps and aseptic meningitis is being studied.
As RFK says in this article itself, the deathrate had already fallen off 98% due to sanitization and modernization.
Measles isn't harmless...but it's less harmful than Covid, at least among children.
EDIT: To clarify, measles is less harmful in children than covid is in all age ranges, not just children.
So measles kills less children than covid kills 70+ year-olds? What a weird comparison.
Some actual numbers: 500,000 cases/yr and 500 deaths out of ~3-4 million infections after good nutrition, before vaccination.
People on one side say "1 in 1000 that's a lot of preventable deaths" and that's spin because it's of cases not infections. Other side says 1 in 8000 die - that's a rounding error it's so small.
But not just looking at deaths, 1 out 6 getting sick enough to go to the doctor is pretty large. That's a lot of people in that group who will be permanently scarred externally and probably internally as well.
It's almost totally preventable with a vaccine - now whether this particular vaccine is safe and should be given is a different matter, but absolutely you should take a safe vaccine for measles if you can.
Inciting fear instead of proving efficacy, sounds like 2021 again.
The difference is that not taking the 2021 jab wouldn't have changed any outcomes.
RFK Jr is a Globalist Scum!