State of the Manosphere/ Red Pill
(sigmaframe.wordpress.com)
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No offense to anyone in the "movement," but the Red Pill as I understand it originally was great as a description of our times, horrible as a prescription. Understanding the true instinctive nature of women? Cool. Going out and spinning as many plates as possible? You're just making it worse for everyone else and setting yourself up for the same lonely childless existence as roasties.
I get the idea, to basically look out for number 1 in a time of social doom. It's not like there's a lot of good ideas out there. But the fact that the manosphere is now a bunch of hucksters fronting rented lambos and trying to pass off paid whores as a harem should not come as a surprise. Selfishness breeds hustlers.
There are core ideas to the Red Pill shared throughout the manosphere but there's different methodologies for internalizing and making use of this information. It also really depends on who you receive the information from (Rollo, Chateau, HoeMath, trp.red etc), and can distort one's view on a possible solution to problems of modern society.
The "prescription" you're describing is the PUA/game answer to how to go about navigating the SMP, probably the oldest variant of the "solution" I'm aware. It's gained the most traction for desperate men trying to get some nookie. And the traditionalist response to this happening is just typical Purple Pill pilpul. I would argue the men doing this spinning stuff just don't care, and you won't be able to shame them out of it.
Some take the RP and "go their own way", just drop out of the game completely. Some of these are incels that are just giving up, others are those that actually have gotten some before and are just tapping out.
Never give to a society that doesn't give back
I was enjoying how much more based hoe_math was on his Twitter than his filtered YT before Elon killed Nitter.
He's definitely more blackpilled re: the collapse of civilization/The Great Replacement Theory/DEI BS than he lets on. Though he does hint at it occasionally on his livestreams that untethered female hypergamy has doomed us to a dystopian future.
His YT comment section though is a real cult of personality hugbox. He mentioned on a livestream that last fall his audience moving over from Tiktok was about 40% female but now it consistently sits at only 9% since he's really blown up.
It's hard to tell if his fawning audience truly understands how doompilled the guy is behind the cheery colorful drawings and if they'd still accept him as their guru if they knew.
If he really is that blackpilled, I can almost forgive and understand him for not going into the 'why' portion of 'Men should do this' part of his videos.
He's made small oblique hints to it, but he's yet to go down that particular rabbit hole. And if that's the case...
Edit: Morbid curiosity drove me to go take a look at Hoe_math's twitter. Holy shit, you weren't kidding. You can tell he's a bit more brutal in his off-the-cuff stuff.
I've watched a few of his livestreams.
He makes oblique references to the fact that COVID shenanigans destroyed his professional career and he has literally retreated to a cabin in the woods.
He also seems to believe in his own personal male concept of hitting the wall despite the fact I've heard him mention several times that he thinks the female version is a myth.
He also loses a little bit of cred in that he shits on dating apps & advises anyone he coaches to go out into the real world to find a woman. But then he's currently dating one of his presumably online professional coaching clients. Which is somewhat hypocritical and probably unethical.
Eh. I'm not expecting perfection from him. I feel he falls down a fair bit in that he'll make a good point but do so in a way that's so off-putting to people that they'll push back against it for what I feel are very good reasons.
(For an example of what I'm talking about: his recent 'dress well' video.)
It'll be interesting to see what he means by 'the female wall is a myth'. I don't believe that in the slightest, but I'll atleast hear him out.
I can't remember his exact reasoning re: the female wall myth, but I believe it's as simple as the fact that his lived experience is that high SMV females still do well finding partners into their 30s and 40s.
I find this somewhat ironic, as his personal narrative wrt his own situation goes something like "I'm in my late 30s, never had success in my career, slept with hundreds of women, was shredded but am less so now, am supremely confident and am a master at understanding female psychology. And yet civilization is collapsing and despite my newfound YT wealth, it's too late for me bros."
I don't even get the sense that he's worried that he's getting old to start a family.
That's the part of "optics" that was actually true. Presentation DOES matter. But ONLY to potential converts, and again only the ones they engage with you directly.
Outside of that. Your enemy will always lie about you. Which isn't the fun answer b3cause it means you actually have to do the legwork or building your audience.
I haven't watched many of his videos, but he seemed less doompilled than a lot of "enjoy the collapse" RPers from nearly decade ago.
And from the few videos I've seen, he does seem to understand quite a bit of the core RP, but he slides a bit into purple. I do respect his belief on the sexes having variations of false perceptions when judging the other sex. But part of his take on the effort required in a relationship seems to be a bit skewed. Higher SMV can allow for less effort required and he does point out the whole women going for above their SMV, but his suggested solution of parity for relationships is bogus when women probably will never settle for that until they splat on the wall or already have mid-low SMV.
The whole "rock against the tides"/holding frame aspect women seek and test for seems missing from his colorful diagrams too (I caught glimpses of shit testing on one of the diagrams that he whizzes by sometimes) But again I haven't seen all his videos.
He's a big proponent of not wallowing in self-pity or wishing the world was different than how it is.
His answer for pretty much every quandary is to self-maximize your own SMV to do the best you can with the hand you're dealt.
He also has some somewhat interesting perspectives, such as raising your own SMV as high as you can and then picking the partner you like the most from the pool of partners who like YOU.
My main issue with the prescriptive side of the red pill is that it only works for a subset of men (the ones who have a mutable characteristic that keeps them from being a Chad) but grifters looking to sell shitty books and overpriced coaching sessions are pushing the lie that anyone can be an alpha. The 5' 6'' guy with a rat face is never going to be able to get into a relationship with a woman who isn't exploiting him (at least not a Western one). He's best off going MGTOW or geomaxxing if he insists on trying his hand at family life.
yeah I don't think it's actually prescriptive and anyone saying it is is selling you something.
"spinning plates" is not a longtime lifestyle. it does protect men from one-ituis that many young men fall into. women aren't unique or "the one". they're all kind of the same and when you date a few of them you understand. and not really before.
I know someone who did this. He's getting married this summer.
Guys who are actually doing it typically get into a cycle.
1. It's awful to get started
2. It's fun for a while and the novelty is exciting
3. The novelty wears off and they start to realize that one vagina is not really different than another
4. The guy either leaves completely - or he finds a girl who's trying to make him happy, and realizes everything will be way more enjoyable to fuck someone who's waiting for him at home, than it would be to continue having to go out to the store every time he wants to fuck.
Most groups have this happen to them, the exceptions are work, and ones where well funded powerful people manipulate things to keep the group alive.
Good for him, but history shows getting married is just the start. The abysmal decline of marriage health in the boomer generation set us up for a lot of today's problems, and it can be hard to adjust from a life of self-interest. C.f. pair bonding rates declining with an increase in sexual partners. I wish him luck.
I don't disagree it's just 2 different topics.
The red pill is "things are shit and here's the best you can do in this situation".
It's certainly not ideal but it's better than just sitting around inside bitching on the internet about things.
I get the impression that the current strategy by those critical of the red pill/manosphere is to poison the well, censor the philosophical content and make it so socially stigmatised that everyone moves back toward family values, feminism and gynocracy.
There has always been feminists, both overt lefties and covert normies cons/ churchians, doing just that.
There are a great deal of snake oil salesmen claiming to be "red pilled" on YouTube however, and even normie media occasionally tries to claim the phrase.
I've noticed the right have also been doing that in recent times too, particularly since the demographic downturn in births and marriages.
Building and maintaining civilization is impossible without stopping women and their Chad chasing from torpedoing the whole thing, and the truth is there aren't any great options for solving the problem. The most effective one historically was enforcing monogamy by various means, but that involved gaslighting beta providers into thinking their bitch wives' campaign to punish them for not being Chad was part of their "angelic" nature. Letting women do whatever the fuck they want without regard for anyone else clearly isn't working either.
The truth is there aren't many men who would participate in this charade if they knew their wives saw them as subhumans to be exploited and discarded (and preferably put to death afterwards, but the feminists haven't managed to work that into the divorce laws yet). Both sides of the coin are eager to defend the web of lies they've spun about intergender relations because without men the whole clown show crashes and burns.
uh huh. same thing that happens in politics, corporations, etc. find your most effective enemy. bribe them, infiltrate them, or kill them and wear their public persona as a skinsuit. then drive everyone back into their cattle pen.
Andrew Tate is a definitely a grifter who doesn't actually understand, he just has enough wealth to seem like a PUA Chad.
JP is Purple Pill. He has very little to do with the manosphere and has been dragged into it by false association. Never listen to man with an N count of 1 for advice on women.
I mean unless you remove women as the necessary part of having kids you ain't going to get far.
A lot of men WANT to be fathers, teachers and masters to apprentices and feminists have skillfully and vindictively put barriers and roadblocks to that. Unless you remove that by both learning away from the institutions they dominate and even do artificial wombs, everything else is bandaid at best, cope at worst.
This doesn't appear until the very end of the piece:
And even then, it's exceptionally vague and generic.
The author was really in love with his thesaurus.
If you are going to pen 1200 words about how Red Pill 2.0 grifters burned down Red Pill 1.0's Library of Alexandria, it would be helpful to provide definitions re: WTF you are talking about.
It was sort of an interesting read, but also pretentious, navelgazing and meandering.
My original point is that you've failed as an author if you continue to use a term like "The Red Pill movement" without explicitly defining to an uninformed reader precisely what the label means/stands for.
Particularly if the entire premise of the article is "Old Man Yells at Cloud" style "2024 TRP isn't as great as the 2010s TRP of my youth".
I can't get over how gay "manosphere" sounds.
Kids are lost these days, there's nowhere to run.
In this post, Jack from Sigma Frame goes over the state of the Red Pill and the Manosphere. Virtually none of the old guard are still posting, the red pill has been watered down and hijacked by grifters, blogs have been deleted and lots of the old knowledge has been lost.
I remember when Chateau Heartiste vanished (before reappearing as a born-again Christian). It was right after he pivoted from “misogyny” to “noticing”.
You really can talk shit about anyone except them.
Some historical context, as far as I recall and understand it:
-The Red Pill was the realization what female nature truly is and how it is weaponized by TheSystem to keep men obedient and subservient.
The concept that The Plantation exists and that women are unaware but willing agents of this system is THE KEY realization of TRP.
-PUAs joined in and realized that the system can be Gamed, and subverted TRP into "be the bestest prettiest Clown House Boy and the Massas will choose you for sex. Game, Lyyyiiifftt, Hodl Framez, ALPAH!!!", and other stupid inanities.
-MGTOW rose against the PUA movement, as a statement of personal ownership and refusal to participate.
MGTOW's most valuable realization is that THERE ARE NO "Alpahs" in ThePlantation, ONLY SLAVES.
-Passport Bros came along and posited that one CAN exit TheSystem and live a reasonably fulfilled life building a family with a feminine attractive woman in a country where men are not hated and disadvantaged.
Only time will tell if this is just a delusion and we are stepping out and into another, more global Matrix.
What we all agree upon, around the Manosphere, is that TheSystem is rotten to the core and is irretrievably damaged in its current form.
I really appreciate Joker's willingness to criticize the clowns that have infested the Manosphere. He's not as forceful as I'd like but I'm sure that's his style rather than any lack of conviction. The video where he went after FreshandFit for platforming Destiny and his cuck lifestyle aged really well considering how that turned out for Destiny.
I consider her to be a female counterpart to Tim Pool. She might be a hypocrite in her own personal decisions, but she is a gateway for normies to start questioning things they've been told by liberals.
Is Joker considered TRP 1.0 or 2.0 according to this article's classification system?
I occasionally watch his stuff, but don't find he brings much that's too insightful, is pretty boomerish and seems to relish in the woman bashing (which I too enjoy, but often find it boring and formulaic).
He also gets docked points for being a former Nick Rekieta associate without calling Balldoman out.