You wait this long and then call it justice? Or was he on the run? Gosh man, I don't know what to think of this.
The man's mind is probably broken like Biden's. But I also don't believe people should be able to evade justice by citing health reasons.
EDIT:
"You were aware that prisoners were killed there. By your presence, you supported" these acts, he added. "Anyone who wanted to flee the camp was shot. Thus, every camp guard actively participated in the killings."
Why stop there? Who built the facilities? Who mined the clay and stone? Who provided the mortar and concrete and steel? Who owned the land and gave it up to Hitler? Who worked in the power plants that supplied electricity? Who are their descendants?
Why did they do all that stuff? To avoid a bullet? What a bunch of cowards: they're Nazi collaborators. All those Nazis must pay, right?
There's a huge difference between killing prisoners as part of the normal operation of a prison, and shooting attempted escapees. The latter has been pretty normal for a long time, and isn't typically considered "murder".
I think their argument is: this is a camp where people were being murdered. By guarding it, you enabled what happened in this camp, so you are complicit in it.
Now, if someone had a childhood dream of being a camp guard, that makes sense. But if you're just conscripted into this service without being able to say no, it's rather harsh. I know we all imagine ourselves to be superheroes who would single-handedly stop the thing and bring down the Nazi regime, but reality is that humans are weak and that 99% of people would obey.
I do think he has plenty of reason to lie. He wouldn't want to spend the last years of his life in a cage, nor have his reputation be tarnished. Imagine what his grandkids will think.
I don't think anyone was convicted for merely following orders, let alone not staging an uprising. Hell, some allegedly bad actors got off because they argued that they were just following orders.
I also think that no one here should be falling for the fable that any country in the modern West is a 'democracy'.
A strange statement, as that is what many people in Germany and elsewhere were essentially convicted of, including the very case in discussion.
Which Nuremberg cases are you talking about?
Regardless, you miss my point: a legal and moral framework was and is applied post-hoc to even the most powerless of people, such as a low ranking guard now more than a century old.
I'm arguing that this is inconsistent with the Nuremberg framework. I am not aware of such a case from that time. (I'm also not sure if the article was a correct representation.)
This old man's existence is like late medieval Europe discovering an Odin-worshiping pagan in their midst. That simply will not do and he must be dealt with.
It's certainly strange. Adenauer reintegrated a lot of unrepentant Nazis in West Germany. To go after them now makes little sense.
In 1945 and 1946, during the Nuremberg trials the issue of superior orders again arose. Before the end of World War II, the Allies suspected such a defense might be employed and issued the London Charter of the International Military Tribunal (IMT), which explicitly stated that following an unlawful order is not a valid defense against charges of war crimes.
The court here argued that a death camp is a war crime and the superior order defense is inapplicable.
I don't necessarily agree with this. It really has to do with where you are in the hierarchy in the scope of your duties. Generals might be in a position to dispute unlawful orders, but it's highly unlikely that someone assigned to a concentration camp as a guard could simply refuse to perform those duties without consequence.
There is no proof this motherfucker actually DID ANYTHING.
It was literally just. AHA! YOU WORKED THERE! GOTTEM! BAKE EM AWAY, TOYS!
You know what's causing this? Shitlibs who revel in the past glories of the "nazi hunters" from like 50 fucking years ago back when there were still REAL nazis to hunt, lusting after a piece of that pie for themselves, even though there are no real nazis left to hunt, so they bully an old man instead. Pathetic.
Even if it were true he was in the SS and assigned to a camp, so what? There were over a million people who served in the SS, not all of them Germans, and it's not like you had a choice of assignments. You did your job, or you deserted and got shot, and the vaaaaaaast majority, probably over 99% of SS personnel, played no direct role in the Holocaust. The nazi leadership obviously wanted to keep the Holocaust a secret, so they didn't spread the work around. It was highly compartmentalized.
But the joggers can jog through someone's house or beat a neighborhood watchman's head on on the pavement, or burn down a city and he's released scott free
You wait this long and then call it justice? Or was he on the run? Gosh man, I don't know what to think of this.
The man's mind is probably broken like Biden's. But I also don't believe people should be able to evade justice by citing health reasons.
EDIT:
https://www.euronews.com/2022/06/28/oldest-person-to-be-tried-for-nazi-era-crimes-set-to-hear-his-fate
Does the judge expect the guard to stage an uprising against the Nazi regime there? Obeying orders is complicity in murder? Certainly strange.
Why stop there? Who built the facilities? Who mined the clay and stone? Who provided the mortar and concrete and steel? Who owned the land and gave it up to Hitler? Who worked in the power plants that supplied electricity? Who are their descendants?
Why did they do all that stuff? To avoid a bullet? What a bunch of cowards: they're Nazi collaborators. All those Nazis must pay, right?
It's idiocrasy without the futuristic shit.
When the new and unexpected happens, it never looks like it does in the movies. This is basically a Rat "Utopia" from the inside.
The whole prosecution was guilt by association.
you were in the SS, and
you were assigned to the camp, therefore
we are going to punish you for the crimes of others even though we have 0 proof that you committed any bad acts yourself.
This dude is just a scapegoat for the Germans and their weird self-hatred over their nazi past.
There's a huge difference between killing prisoners as part of the normal operation of a prison, and shooting attempted escapees. The latter has been pretty normal for a long time, and isn't typically considered "murder".
I think their argument is: this is a camp where people were being murdered. By guarding it, you enabled what happened in this camp, so you are complicit in it.
Now, if someone had a childhood dream of being a camp guard, that makes sense. But if you're just conscripted into this service without being able to say no, it's rather harsh. I know we all imagine ourselves to be superheroes who would single-handedly stop the thing and bring down the Nazi regime, but reality is that humans are weak and that 99% of people would obey.
Every single person who would totally resist the Nazi occupation was the same kind of person who cheered when Canadian truckers were arrested.
Especially since the defendant claimed he knew nothing about any murders.
The guy is 105 years old and likely to die at any minute. What reason does he have to lie?
I do think he has plenty of reason to lie. He wouldn't want to spend the last years of his life in a cage, nor have his reputation be tarnished. Imagine what his grandkids will think.
His grandkids should be angry that he failed to exterminate the jews.
grossvater, instead of using the masturbation machines to extract jew coooms why didn't you just kill them all??
I don't think anyone was convicted for merely following orders, let alone not staging an uprising. Hell, some allegedly bad actors got off because they argued that they were just following orders.
I also think that no one here should be falling for the fable that any country in the modern West is a 'democracy'.
Which Nuremberg cases are you talking about?
I'm arguing that this is inconsistent with the Nuremberg framework. I am not aware of such a case from that time. (I'm also not sure if the article was a correct representation.)
It's certainly strange. Adenauer reintegrated a lot of unrepentant Nazis in West Germany. To go after them now makes little sense.
Quick Wikipedia reference:
The court here argued that a death camp is a war crime and the superior order defense is inapplicable.
I don't necessarily agree with this. It really has to do with where you are in the hierarchy in the scope of your duties. Generals might be in a position to dispute unlawful orders, but it's highly unlikely that someone assigned to a concentration camp as a guard could simply refuse to perform those duties without consequence.
"guard them or join them"
There is no proof this motherfucker actually DID ANYTHING.
It was literally just. AHA! YOU WORKED THERE! GOTTEM! BAKE EM AWAY, TOYS!
You know what's causing this? Shitlibs who revel in the past glories of the "nazi hunters" from like 50 fucking years ago back when there were still REAL nazis to hunt, lusting after a piece of that pie for themselves, even though there are no real nazis left to hunt, so they bully an old man instead. Pathetic.
Even if it were true he was in the SS and assigned to a camp, so what? There were over a million people who served in the SS, not all of them Germans, and it's not like you had a choice of assignments. You did your job, or you deserted and got shot, and the vaaaaaaast majority, probably over 99% of SS personnel, played no direct role in the Holocaust. The nazi leadership obviously wanted to keep the Holocaust a secret, so they didn't spread the work around. It was highly compartmentalized.
He's 101 just let him die in peace.
Yeah, because being 101 doesn't feel like prison already. What a fucking farce.
charge soros for his involvement in the hunt for jews and their property then, the happiest time of his life.
Why? Dude is one hundred and fucking 1 he could die any second now
But the joggers can jog through someone's house or beat a neighborhood watchman's head on on the pavement, or burn down a city and he's released scott free
Let the punishment fit the crime. German households aren't going to heat themselves!
If we go after the Chinese war criminals, the trials would go on forever.