My significant other is a federal employee, and it was recently announced that all federal employees will be told to take the jab by executive order. My instinct tells me that this is a gross violation of constitutional rights, but I don't know what the best way to argue against it would be if it goes through. Do you guys have any advice other than refuse for as long as possible? I'm wracking my brain, but I really don't know what to do.
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My preferred approach to dealing with HR is to delay as long as possible until that particular Eye of Sauron falls upon someone else.
Ignore emails about it. If someone comes to your desk asking about it say you forgot to bring it. If they tell you it was in an email say you didn't see it. If they come again say you're having trouble finding it. If they come again say it completely slipped your mind. And so on, and so forth. Pretend your IQ is 20 points lower and respond accordingly. Odds are good this HR person is dealing with at least a dozen people who are honestly answering their questions the same way you are.
Eventually you're likely to slip through the cracks, at least until someone decides to audit the records. In which case enough time will probably have elapsed that you can repeat that process with the next HR drone.
Yep. Couple years ago I had some HR intern try to get me to sign some new Terms of Employment. I preferred the old terms, so I just said "I will get back to you" and let it drop. She asked a month later, and I ignored her. A short while later her internship ended, and no one has asked since.
Had I said "I'm not signing this" maybe they ultimately have been OK with that, but I'm sure it would have been more of an uphill battle involving several arguments with my boss and/or HR.
This guy HRs.
After a certain number of months you can probably start saying “I gave it to mary the intern who quit already”
Yes the steady flow of HR interns and temp workers is also a useful feature to take advantage of.
you could always do the ole "Transfer to another division" followed by " I have had it, check your records"
On the other hand, if you decide that you want to leave anyway, raising a stink is a good way to go out memorably, potentially set yourself up for a nice wrongful termination lawsuit, and feel good for sticking up for principle.
This is a purge of the potentially disloyal.
They will keep ramping it up until the only ones left are true believers, morons too dumb to ask questions, abject cowards, and fellow opportunists.
It's going to work then. If they insist that I take their poison I am handing in my badge.
Don't quit, make them fire you.
Not sure if that's actually a wise move in this industry.
I think this will get very dicey very quickly. EOs aren't intended to have this kind of broad-reaching authority, and there's plenty of established international and US law that prohibits forced participation in experimental medical procedures and vaccines (all that will change once the FDA grants full approval later this year, I expect).
If it is enforced, from what I've seen there's going to be an out-clause whereby your SO could get tested for COVID weekly. We'll have to see what the actual order says, but if that information is correct then you at least have a short-term shitty, tedious, and infuriating new hoop to jump through to avoid getting vaxxed. That at least buys you time to make alternate plans.
There are also religious exemptions your SO could appeal toward. I'm not very familiar with that territory but I know it exists. Robert Barnes has got a lot of litigation he's preparing to challenge vaccine mandates, and I know he's outlaid options for people like your spouse on the Viva Barnes Locals (I'd go look it up but I'm no longer a paid member. That advice might even be available to unpaid members, FWIW).
I also doubt it would go into immediate effect, meaning your SO should have some time to get vaxxed or get out. I suppose we'll find out on Thursday.
Bottom line is, I believe your SO will have some short-term stalling options while planning to get out of federal employment ASAP. I have heard from friends at large companies like Wells Fargo that they are moving in similar directions, so it's probably best to move toward smaller companies that don't have HR departments.
There's another question altogether of just how far an employer can go to verify that you are vaccinated in the first place. Prying too deeply runs afoul of the ADA, and a simple "yes I am vaccinated" might be enough to save your job. That appears to have satisfied federal employers so far, anyway. There are templates for vaccine certificates, along with instructions to what card stock to print them out on, if you really feel up against the wall and need to forge your way out. I don't know how much this is maintained on a federal database.
110# paper
Examples
I was looking on IG for fun the other day. It seems a lot of the lemmings figured out that if they post their vaccine card with the #vaccine then all the filthy unvaxxed can just copy down their lot number with basically no way of verifying it beyond breaching their medical records. So they've been editing out the lot numbers and locations.
Yes but once you know how each manufacturer is formatting and structuring their lot numbers you can make reasonable assumptions as to what lot numbers will be used in the future. Given a reasonable number of lot numbers from each manufacturer -- even if they are from now expired lots -- it isn't difficult to start to see patterns and make predictions regarding more recent lot numbers.
The thing to always remember is the manufacturers themselves aren't randomly assigning lot numbers: they may look random but they have meaning, and the manufacturers are following a process to assign those numbers to each lot.
Also there's a site you can check Moderna lot numbers for validity. Moderna lot numbers are seven characters, beginning with three digits (always less than 050 that I've seen), then a letter (I've seen A-D and L) and then "21A" or "20A" (20 or 21 is the year)
Very good point.
Jokes on them. I saved copies of their pictures months and months ago...
Denzel.gif
nice, saved in case those links get shoah'd
Someone else originally posted the album here months ago, but I forgot who.
Unions should step in here.
This will get ugly is what I fear. Definitely my hill to die on ...
Why would one leftist apparatus protect from you from another leftist apparatus?
The moment any of those groups make a material success in preventing, or better yet abolishing this tyrannical nonsense, I will gladly take back what I said.
Money, if nothing else.
Unions don't exist to make money. They do that via corruption, which is a side effect of their primary mission.
They exist to force participation. They are a labor racketeering operation, trying to force businesses to use only members, and to force non members to join or else face violence and intimidation.
Their purpose, and the mandates for the fake vaccine, are the same. To force you to bend the knee.
About that...
I would drag it out and try to delay it as much as possible while waiting for the inevitable lawsuit to play out. I actually think that a lawsuit will have a high likelihood of success because there is a lot of caselaw upholding the right to bodily autonomy. And as a former federal employee, I know that if there is one thing federal employees are good at, it is dragging things out as long as possible.
Collaborators never survive the fall of the dictatorship. Nor do their families.
Your instincts are correct, but there's not much that can be done at this point until the SCOTUS weighs in.
As many have said, stall/delay as long as possible but don't fight it (you will lose, not to mention being an easy target to be made an example of), don't get the jab (don't be a sheep), make them fire your SO... that will take a long time and who knows what will happen between now and then.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/crime_against_humanity
Advice: stop infecting innocent ppl
You can still spread the virus even with the vaccine.
Yes, and asymptomatic spread is apparently a thing.
of course you can. It's about % chances.
Your proficient use of mathematical terminology leads me to believe that you have a wonderful understanding of the efficacy and could probably explain it to the rest of us in small, easy-to-comprehend-for-our-small-minds statements.
So give it a shot. Convince me with data.
I wonder how it'll play out for the military come September 1st.
Just speaking to the few I know, there's big chunks of the military that aren't getting it even when it does become mandated, and even more are planning to get out when their current contract expires.
I don't blame them for it but ughhhhh. Our gov is deliberately fucking our military up. I heard just the other day that wargames the Navy recently did show that they're slated to disastrously lose in case of an actual conflict with China. Just what we need. And I'm sure things are just as bad in the other branches.
They're focusing on diversity, inclusion, and equity over combat readiness, and it's really showing from what I understand.
All of you should read "A Report on the Fighting Culture of the United States Navy Surface Fleet" from I think last year or the year before which describes how all of these extra HR trainings are the taking the place of actual warfighting training, destroying morale and pride in the service.
One of the most damming quotes is, ““Sometimes I think we care more about whether we have enough diversity officers than if we’ll survive a fight with the Chinese navy,” lamented one lieutenant currently on active duty. “It’s criminal. They think my only value is as a black woman. But you cut our ship open with a missile and we’ll all bleed the same color.””
And when you're done with that, go read "Lying to Ourselves: Dishonesty in the Army Profession" from the Army War College about how a culture of yes men and ass-kissing is reducing readiness.
Just to give the other view, here are two things to consider:
Because remember: You cant justify your budget going up if you win your wargame, because if you can win with your current navy, why not more.
Moreover, those wargames have been rather useless in figuring out how a war would actually go down. A pre-Gulf War wargame against Iraq backed up Saddams claim that the US would face heavy losses and be stuck in the war for years. In reality, the war lasted a few days and we suffered more losses from friendly fire than enemy fire. Everything I have ever seen is that, much like the soviets before them, the Chinese are a paper dragon, especially when you count our regional allies (Japan, Taiwan, India) into the mix.
And this has meant that the military can generally survive incompetent commanders, and becomes downright apocalyptic when it has a general/admiral who knows what they are doing.
My brother got out of the Army only a few months ago, and when I talked with him about this sort of stuff, he said he thought it was a lot of freaking out over nothing. He laughed at the idea that China was a threat from the stuff he had seen, he and most of his men scoffed at the woke stuff, and I would not be surprised if, much like the woke lectures, there will be commanders falsifying vaccine records.