the kike financed Churches never fought for Christian values to begin with, right now they're fully showing their hand and their alliegence to demons (HaShem/Allah/Vishnu etc...)
i actually wonder, will they criminalize being a "jesus Worshipper" could last week i saw some zogbot being deported from the zog force because he had a Christian bible in his locker
Please, tell me more about why your imaginary magic king is cooler then their imaginary magic kings.
Seriously, this is why you guys lost generations of youngsters. You bang on the bell of "but muh magic sky king" in an era where you can't simply tell people bullshit and expect them to blindly accept it, and you utterly refuse to focus properly on the traditions and cultural heritage that allowed the west to rise to such great heights. And then you wonder why people don't all suddenly accept your idea as fact and come to church on their own.
Lay off the mysticism and focus on the real part, the human element. You'll see some dividends pretty quickly.
Traditions, ethical and moral lessons, and social cohesion structures, absolutely.
But you don't need magic sky king to serve as the bedrock for a civilization. You can recognize the human wisdom of the books without subscribing to the mysticism and bullshit.
And if your moral structures fall apart without an omniscient magic sky tyrant to enforce them, perhaps there are flaws in the system to address without discarding them wholesale.
Sure, I agree with you. I’m agnostic (because I feel that being an atheist is the same as being a theist), but I value very strongly the Greco-Roman-Christian roots of Western civilization. They ARE the bedrock of our modern civilization, liberalism (in the original sense), individualism, and a great many other core philosophies.
The point is that modern leftism and progressive leftism in particular has, in Hegelian terms, defined itself as the ANTITHESIS of this. It’s not that moral structures fall apart without “sky daddy,” it’s that the enemies of Western civilization attack each and every tenet of belief and philosophy.
Conservative religion is kind of like a vaccine against forced progressivism.
Brother, were you by chance alive during the Satanic Panic(TM) from a few decades ago?
I'm not fishing for anything, just honestly curious, because I myself lived through that, as well as decades of other nonsense that only happened because "God is Good, Jesus is King" Christians held institutional power.
I look at this from the lens of an old, jaded man who has seen both tines of the horseshoe. All the bullshit of modern leftism, of the church of "The Science(TM)", and etc. is simply all the bullshit of conservatism and bible-thumpery from decades past wearing a different trench coat.
There are many, many ways in which we can inoculate our society against destructive outside influences (and destructive inside influences) without simply changing masters from the man in Washington to the man in Rome. If you can recall the society of the 1990s and 2000s, for example, when the net was nascent and we didn't have the centralized control nodes we do now, most people were quite resistant to both being told "go to church or god will be upset" and being told "use my pronouns or big brother will be upset". It took over a decade of centralized, dedicated psy-ops and cultural control mechanisms to get us to our current state.
We must simply restore the liberty which has been taken from us. The rest will follow.
And nothing, not a single damned thing, will happen by simply praying about it, or by demanding people submit to god.
I lived through the 80s, my friend groups played D&D then, and I lived to tell!
The worst I ever personally saw was one friend who had to go to one Bible study because his mom had bought into the “D&D = Satan worship” thing. It sucked for him. His mom was non-denominational if you know what that means. He didn’t quit, and it worked out in the end.
Compare that today to people who use the wrong pronoun and get pilloried and attacked from peers, teachers, professors, strangers, etc., and I think the fundamentalists—progressive leftists—of today are worse than the Christian fundamentalists ever were in America.
Is your argument simply “what aboutism”? “Leftists are bad, but what about conservatives?” That’s the line for me. I am anti-neocon, I’m anti-theocracy, and I’m anti-leftist, in an interchangeable order. I don’t go in for what aboutism.
I think if you took the founding documents of the US, entirely removed the blight of slavery, and added a few more protections of liberty to defend against assaults that the founders never could have imagined, you’d have pretty close to an ideal political and social framework. It worked pretty damn well until the Civil War and progressivism birthed our modern state.
Conservative Christians, even the Deus Vult types, are allies because I think they are more right than wrong. The progressive leftists are far more wrong than right. The Christians are closer to believing in that original American ideal than the progressive leftists are. Thomas Jefferson’s red letter Bible is a great example of how intelligent, non-believing, Christian-centric, rational, belief systems can coexist. Jefferson didn’t attempt to rewrite the Bible to mean something it clearly did not, neither did he try to turn America into a theocracy. We could use more of that.
I'm glad you bring up Jefferson's bible, because it actually underscores the crux of my argument (and which I'm really not sure how you got "what about"ism out of).
My issue, as was Jefferson's, is the magic and mysticism of the bible (and, by extension, every other religion). Yes, leftism currently holds the reigns of power, and has held them with more vim and vitriol then the bible thumpers did a few decades ago. No, this is not a reason to embrace the viper of the "deus vult" types to your breast.
Consider this a simple "Scorpion and Turtle" allegory. The scorpion must sting, for that is its nature. The theist must expand the church, for that is his nature. If you accept the theist into your fold, you must either immediately and permanently hobble him, or else understand that he will continue to push the envelope until he has seized the reigns of power.
Magic and mystical thinking must never be accepted. This means no gods, no men becoming women, no magic soil, none of that horseshit. While it is true that, for example, a large portion of writing survived into the modern era only because christian and catholic monks and monasteries endeavored to save them during the dark ages, this doesn't erase the face that the majority of incorrect "folk knowledge" stemmed from religious or "mystical" practices, and the majority of religions would purge what came before them as heretical, the same way rising dynasties often destroyed records of prior dynasties (look to china as an amazing example of the latter, or afghanistan under the taliban for the former).
And don't get me started on all the people who try to blame all human evils on "demons", and insist we need jesus to come back and purge them to cure all of society's ills, instead of accepting that it is evil humans who do evil, and the only solution to evil humans is non-evil humans standing and sacrificing in opposition.
This is my line in the sand. No gods, no demons, no wizards; only men and the cold, uncaring universe we happen to exist in.
The cultural heritage of the West IS Christianity, and the two are not separate things. And the likes of you are an enemy to the West, same as the subhuman invaders.
In fairness they could just be bitter about having boomer zio-churchian parents who dragged them to some (((evangelical))) megachurch on Sundays. Still, time to outgrow the teen rebel phase and live your own life.
On the one hand it does lend credence to their claim to actually be young, because anyone old enough to remember it would recognize that as radioactive reddit-tier cringe. And going through a "they just haven't heard it yet" phase is practically a rite of passage of secular anti-authoritarianism.
But on the other hand, it's incredibly counter productive. Because the believers have in fact heard it before, and any form of serious right coalition that hopes to have the numbers to do anything practical will have to involve an alliance of traditional believers and a-religious people who nonetheless still strongly believe in Christian adjacent moral values and traditions. You can't fracture along those lines without losing disgustingly, for either side. For the traditional Christians that's an easier pill to swallow nowadays, since half the organized churches are soddomy promoting, abortion loving heretics. So even an atheist can seem more like a brother to the actual moral teachings of the bible in comparison, even if they're reaching the conclusion by different means. The firebrand, secular anti-authoritarians just need to look around at all the forces arrayed against them and ask themselves if they really should be sparing any energy to argue with people with the same practical end goals but might occasionally just ask if you want to be saved spiritually. Instead of devoting all your energy to fighting the people who actually just want you dead and your children despoiled and mutilated.
Honestly. I don't give a damn. I know most of you guys are too far gone in the cult to be pulled out. You've built a lot of your identities around the lie, to the point where the truth personally offends you.
I gainsay the hive mind because someone has to, even if it's the equivalent of Sisyphus pushing the boulder up the hill again.
And my absolute lack of tolerance for people getting into dick measuring contests over how their imaginary super sky friend can totally best up the other guys imaginary super sky friend has years and years of sincere vitriol behind it.
It always boggles my mind when people around here can't see it. Everyone can immediately identify that men can't become women, or that jews as a social group are brought up in an evil, self-aggrandizing, narcissistic cabal, or that watermelon felons are a blight upon our society, or any of a dozen other things rooted in observable reality, but say one thing about their invisible, intangible, inactive magic sky king who totally does shit up until humans invent photography (at which point, feeling shy, he stops with the whole "miracle" business), and here we are.
Well, considering you're using some technology that would get you burned as a witch two hundred years ago, we have, in fact, benefitted quite greatly from moving past "sky king is angry" as an explanation for why it's raining.
You need the moral and ethical traditions, divorced from the mysticism mumbojumbo. You can follow the good moral teachings from your preferred holy text without grounding it in "two thousand odd years ago, a magic bush caught fire and some goat herders heard a mountain talk". Present your bible as a collection of human lived wisdom, and you'll get far less pushback.
Dude, when, in all of human history, have people ever been totally rational and reasonable? You CAN'T divorce the moral and ethical traditions from the 'mysticism mumbojumbo'. That's exactly what the current woke crusade proves. Strip people of their myths and legends, and they will invent new ones to fill the gap (and those new ones are usually much worse and less time-tested than those they replace).
Stories and parables have deep meaning to people, whether that be Jesus feeding the multitudes or Rosa Parks sitting at the front of the bus. Whether or not either of these things actually happened in the way they are presented has absolutely no bearing on whether people believe them and act on them accordingly.
I'm sorry that man is not the creature you wish him to be, but you HAVE to deal with him as he is, otherwise you will always fail.
No true Muslim would head a church. That's basically blasphemy. Taking over another religion/organization and using it as as a skinsuit while leading the followers astray is a skill mastered by another group...
the kike financed Churches never fought for Christian values to begin with, right now they're fully showing their hand and their alliegence to demons (HaShem/Allah/Vishnu etc...)
i actually wonder, will they criminalize being a "jesus Worshipper" could last week i saw some zogbot being deported from the zog force because he had a Christian bible in his locker
Please, tell me more about why your imaginary magic king is cooler then their imaginary magic kings.
Seriously, this is why you guys lost generations of youngsters. You bang on the bell of "but muh magic sky king" in an era where you can't simply tell people bullshit and expect them to blindly accept it, and you utterly refuse to focus properly on the traditions and cultural heritage that allowed the west to rise to such great heights. And then you wonder why people don't all suddenly accept your idea as fact and come to church on their own.
Lay off the mysticism and focus on the real part, the human element. You'll see some dividends pretty quickly.
I don't think you can talk about Western traditions and heritage and not include Christianity.
I don't think you can HAVE Western Tradition without Christianity
Even Dicky Dawkins, the pope of atheism considers himself a "Cultural Christian."
He's not white. He is a foreigner. Claims he came here when he was 5.
Traditions, ethical and moral lessons, and social cohesion structures, absolutely.
But you don't need magic sky king to serve as the bedrock for a civilization. You can recognize the human wisdom of the books without subscribing to the mysticism and bullshit.
And if your moral structures fall apart without an omniscient magic sky tyrant to enforce them, perhaps there are flaws in the system to address without discarding them wholesale.
Sure, I agree with you. I’m agnostic (because I feel that being an atheist is the same as being a theist), but I value very strongly the Greco-Roman-Christian roots of Western civilization. They ARE the bedrock of our modern civilization, liberalism (in the original sense), individualism, and a great many other core philosophies.
The point is that modern leftism and progressive leftism in particular has, in Hegelian terms, defined itself as the ANTITHESIS of this. It’s not that moral structures fall apart without “sky daddy,” it’s that the enemies of Western civilization attack each and every tenet of belief and philosophy.
Conservative religion is kind of like a vaccine against forced progressivism.
Brother, were you by chance alive during the Satanic Panic(TM) from a few decades ago?
I'm not fishing for anything, just honestly curious, because I myself lived through that, as well as decades of other nonsense that only happened because "God is Good, Jesus is King" Christians held institutional power.
I look at this from the lens of an old, jaded man who has seen both tines of the horseshoe. All the bullshit of modern leftism, of the church of "The Science(TM)", and etc. is simply all the bullshit of conservatism and bible-thumpery from decades past wearing a different trench coat.
There are many, many ways in which we can inoculate our society against destructive outside influences (and destructive inside influences) without simply changing masters from the man in Washington to the man in Rome. If you can recall the society of the 1990s and 2000s, for example, when the net was nascent and we didn't have the centralized control nodes we do now, most people were quite resistant to both being told "go to church or god will be upset" and being told "use my pronouns or big brother will be upset". It took over a decade of centralized, dedicated psy-ops and cultural control mechanisms to get us to our current state.
We must simply restore the liberty which has been taken from us. The rest will follow.
And nothing, not a single damned thing, will happen by simply praying about it, or by demanding people submit to god.
I lived through the 80s, my friend groups played D&D then, and I lived to tell!
The worst I ever personally saw was one friend who had to go to one Bible study because his mom had bought into the “D&D = Satan worship” thing. It sucked for him. His mom was non-denominational if you know what that means. He didn’t quit, and it worked out in the end.
Compare that today to people who use the wrong pronoun and get pilloried and attacked from peers, teachers, professors, strangers, etc., and I think the fundamentalists—progressive leftists—of today are worse than the Christian fundamentalists ever were in America.
Is your argument simply “what aboutism”? “Leftists are bad, but what about conservatives?” That’s the line for me. I am anti-neocon, I’m anti-theocracy, and I’m anti-leftist, in an interchangeable order. I don’t go in for what aboutism.
I think if you took the founding documents of the US, entirely removed the blight of slavery, and added a few more protections of liberty to defend against assaults that the founders never could have imagined, you’d have pretty close to an ideal political and social framework. It worked pretty damn well until the Civil War and progressivism birthed our modern state.
Conservative Christians, even the Deus Vult types, are allies because I think they are more right than wrong. The progressive leftists are far more wrong than right. The Christians are closer to believing in that original American ideal than the progressive leftists are. Thomas Jefferson’s red letter Bible is a great example of how intelligent, non-believing, Christian-centric, rational, belief systems can coexist. Jefferson didn’t attempt to rewrite the Bible to mean something it clearly did not, neither did he try to turn America into a theocracy. We could use more of that.
I'm glad you bring up Jefferson's bible, because it actually underscores the crux of my argument (and which I'm really not sure how you got "what about"ism out of).
My issue, as was Jefferson's, is the magic and mysticism of the bible (and, by extension, every other religion). Yes, leftism currently holds the reigns of power, and has held them with more vim and vitriol then the bible thumpers did a few decades ago. No, this is not a reason to embrace the viper of the "deus vult" types to your breast.
Consider this a simple "Scorpion and Turtle" allegory. The scorpion must sting, for that is its nature. The theist must expand the church, for that is his nature. If you accept the theist into your fold, you must either immediately and permanently hobble him, or else understand that he will continue to push the envelope until he has seized the reigns of power.
Magic and mystical thinking must never be accepted. This means no gods, no men becoming women, no magic soil, none of that horseshit. While it is true that, for example, a large portion of writing survived into the modern era only because christian and catholic monks and monasteries endeavored to save them during the dark ages, this doesn't erase the face that the majority of incorrect "folk knowledge" stemmed from religious or "mystical" practices, and the majority of religions would purge what came before them as heretical, the same way rising dynasties often destroyed records of prior dynasties (look to china as an amazing example of the latter, or afghanistan under the taliban for the former).
And don't get me started on all the people who try to blame all human evils on "demons", and insist we need jesus to come back and purge them to cure all of society's ills, instead of accepting that it is evil humans who do evil, and the only solution to evil humans is non-evil humans standing and sacrificing in opposition.
This is my line in the sand. No gods, no demons, no wizards; only men and the cold, uncaring universe we happen to exist in.
You exemplify what I call atheautism.
The cultural heritage of the West IS Christianity, and the two are not separate things. And the likes of you are an enemy to the West, same as the subhuman invaders.
In fairness they could just be bitter about having boomer zio-churchian parents who dragged them to some (((evangelical))) megachurch on Sundays. Still, time to outgrow the teen rebel phase and live your own life.
https://scored.co/c/KotakuInAction2/p/1ASt1HJEKD/wolf-dog-an-essay-dehumanizing-i/c/4ed3QW86DVg
He IS a subhuman invader.
Nailed it.
You might have a good point but belittling and minimizing god into some reddit tier "magic sky king" crap is not the way to convince anyone here.
On the one hand it does lend credence to their claim to actually be young, because anyone old enough to remember it would recognize that as radioactive reddit-tier cringe. And going through a "they just haven't heard it yet" phase is practically a rite of passage of secular anti-authoritarianism.
But on the other hand, it's incredibly counter productive. Because the believers have in fact heard it before, and any form of serious right coalition that hopes to have the numbers to do anything practical will have to involve an alliance of traditional believers and a-religious people who nonetheless still strongly believe in Christian adjacent moral values and traditions. You can't fracture along those lines without losing disgustingly, for either side. For the traditional Christians that's an easier pill to swallow nowadays, since half the organized churches are soddomy promoting, abortion loving heretics. So even an atheist can seem more like a brother to the actual moral teachings of the bible in comparison, even if they're reaching the conclusion by different means. The firebrand, secular anti-authoritarians just need to look around at all the forces arrayed against them and ask themselves if they really should be sparing any energy to argue with people with the same practical end goals but might occasionally just ask if you want to be saved spiritually. Instead of devoting all your energy to fighting the people who actually just want you dead and your children despoiled and mutilated.
https://scored.co/c/KotakuInAction2/p/1ASt1HJEKD/wolf-dog-an-essay-dehumanizing-i/c/4ed3QW86DVg
He claims to have come here 50 years ago, at the age of 5. He is an invader.
Honestly. I don't give a damn. I know most of you guys are too far gone in the cult to be pulled out. You've built a lot of your identities around the lie, to the point where the truth personally offends you.
I gainsay the hive mind because someone has to, even if it's the equivalent of Sisyphus pushing the boulder up the hill again.
You might get the boulder to the top in other ways but I think it just gives you purpose to troll a bit
Its not trolling if its sincere.
And my absolute lack of tolerance for people getting into dick measuring contests over how their imaginary super sky friend can totally best up the other guys imaginary super sky friend has years and years of sincere vitriol behind it.
It always boggles my mind when people around here can't see it. Everyone can immediately identify that men can't become women, or that jews as a social group are brought up in an evil, self-aggrandizing, narcissistic cabal, or that watermelon felons are a blight upon our society, or any of a dozen other things rooted in observable reality, but say one thing about their invisible, intangible, inactive magic sky king who totally does shit up until humans invent photography (at which point, feeling shy, he stops with the whole "miracle" business), and here we are.
Its absurd.
Holy shit I'm not even religious but kill yourself atheist redditor subhuman. You're literally the meme.
Yeah because becoming less Christian has worked out so well for the West and White people 🙄
Well, considering you're using some technology that would get you burned as a witch two hundred years ago, we have, in fact, benefitted quite greatly from moving past "sky king is angry" as an explanation for why it's raining.
You need the moral and ethical traditions, divorced from the mysticism mumbojumbo. You can follow the good moral teachings from your preferred holy text without grounding it in "two thousand odd years ago, a magic bush caught fire and some goat herders heard a mountain talk". Present your bible as a collection of human lived wisdom, and you'll get far less pushback.
Dude, when, in all of human history, have people ever been totally rational and reasonable? You CAN'T divorce the moral and ethical traditions from the 'mysticism mumbojumbo'. That's exactly what the current woke crusade proves. Strip people of their myths and legends, and they will invent new ones to fill the gap (and those new ones are usually much worse and less time-tested than those they replace).
Stories and parables have deep meaning to people, whether that be Jesus feeding the multitudes or Rosa Parks sitting at the front of the bus. Whether or not either of these things actually happened in the way they are presented has absolutely no bearing on whether people believe them and act on them accordingly.
I'm sorry that man is not the creature you wish him to be, but you HAVE to deal with him as he is, otherwise you will always fail.
The King Of England (titular head of the Anglican Church) is a Muslim.
The Catholic Pope is a communist & atheist.
The rot has reached the very top of the tree! Time to chop it down & start over.
Thats how it is.. its like the roman empire became the holy roman empire because all it took was the emperor to convert.
That should at least thrill the muslims on this sub.
No true Muslim would head a church. That's basically blasphemy. Taking over another religion/organization and using it as as a skinsuit while leading the followers astray is a skill mastered by another group...
Equality and "brotherhood of man" are Christian values. It's why it's been so easy to subvert
judeo"Christian". https://christogenea.org for a primer on Christian Identity
They are no longer part of the communion of Christians, totally apostate and in a state of heresy.
I have work to do.