Bunny doesn't speak a language the overwhelming majority of America understands. Even if you think rap belongs, Kanye certainly is a better writer than Young Thug or Missy Elliott. Eminem is a woke liberal and one of the greatest rappers even but I guess even that can't overcome being a straight white male.
I won't even get into specifics but whoever wrote this rage bait list can get fucked. This is custom designed to make everybody apoplectic no matter where they stand.
lol. Half of these songwriters are absolute shit at writing songs. Mariah Carey? Lionel Ritchie? You kidding me? They're both absolute hacks.
It's the same thing as with the Grammys. Taste in music is so diverse that we've just given up and decided that "popular = good." Madonna is considered better than Modest Mouse because she moved more plastic. Whatever. But I assure you that Isaac Brock can write Mariah Carey into the fucking ground.
Mariah Carey has the second most #1 songs ever and cowrote almost all of them. I know #1 singles isn't the definition of good writing, but it certainly means you can write a ton of songs that appeal to the masses. Can't discount that even if you don't like mainstream stuff. I personally don't think I know many more than a few of her #1s, but it is what it is. Of course, it could have now to do with how good her voice was rather than anyone else.
I know #1 singles isn't the definition of good writing, but it certainly means you can write a ton of songs that appeal to the masses.
It's worse than that. Going to #1 means that you've written a song that appeals to the coveted 16-24 demographic. Those are the people who tend to be the most passionate about music and who spend the most on downloads and concert tickets.
Which means that if you're going to #1, you have to pretty much write literal children's music. Your songs will all be about finding a boyfriend or being horny or looking cooler than you are.
They will be immediately understood, lack any and all nuance or poetry, and be based in familiar chord structures. They will be in 4/4 without any key changes; they will be played at about 120 BPM.
Fun fact: Katy Perry brought her first draft of Last Friday Night (T.G.I.F.) to her label, and they told her: this isn't dumb enough. Make it so dumb that the dumbest teenager can understand it, and put in something about group sex.
It was #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 for two weeks. Great songwriting, indeed.
And of course it's four chords on a loop, IV–ii–vi–V, the same as All Star and Just Like Heaven and Closing Time and Knockin' on Heaven's Door, at 126 BPM. When people tell me AI music is uncreative, I just have to scoff.
That may be so, but people can go on and on about music theory and what makes a great song, but all that matters in the end is if people listen to it. You can write the most technical and amazing composition, but if only a small group of people listen to it, then it doesn't matter that much. There are heaps of people who write amazing music and probably do it better than any mainstream artist. I certainly like more complex and deep music than a standard Mariah Carey song, but I bet you that 50 years from now more people will be listening to Mariah Carey belt out All I Want For Christmas Is You than they will some of the greatest song writers of the 20th and early 21st century.
It's the same thing with Taylor Swift. Average singer, average looks (IMO), average songs, typical lyrical topics, but yet people consider her an amazing songwriter because she knows how to write earworms. She already has 14 #1 songs. Yeah, mid-grade mass appeal stuff, but somehow she's the biggest thing around. At least Mariah Carey had one of the best voices in modern pop music and was quite attractive in her prime.
Consider the question "what are the five best hamburgers in the United States."
If the only metric that matters is "units moved," then the best five hamburgers in the country are 1. The McDonald's Cheeseburger; 2. The Big Mac; 3. The Whopper; 4. The McDonald's Quarter Pounder With Cheese; 5. Dave's Single.
It's interesting that when it comes to hamburgers, we can all agree that these are not the best five hamburgers. In fact, these are all examples of garbage food, and are some of the worst hamburgers on the planet.
I tend to see music the same way. Mariah Carey is the Whopper of music. People who listen to Mariah Carey while eating a Whopper give a shit about neither music nor food. They just want to consume product, and that particular product has the distinction of being the most readily available.
and do you think a mainstream publication is going to judge mainstream burgers or niche ones? They may not say that the most popular is the best, but it'll be on the ranking somewhere because people know it.
Also, I'd still make the argument that while Mariah Carey is run of the mill pop music, her vocal abilities are in the top tier. She has a 5-octave vocal range, which isn't all that common.
I mean, I think the list is garbage to begin with. I just find it interesting that Mariah Carey is one of the call outs for not belonging compared to the rest.
15 years ago including Eminem on the list would have been defensible. Post 2010 Eminem has been nothing but corporate slop especially after Trump came on the scene.
Herfeild and Ulrich were doing some crazy shit in their younger years. I've only just gotten into Master of Puppets, but holy shit were those dudes ahead of their time, and at such a young age.
There's only 3 names on that list that are relevant/recognizable
Paul Simon is the "Simon" in Simon and Garfunkel.
I find it hard to believe you've never heard of Stevie, Lionel, or Smokey unless you're a zoomer. It's always sad to see the legitimately good (usually 70s/80s) black artists on the same lists as shit Jay-Z. Only took a couple decades for the new "executives" to turn it into nothing but crime and degeneracy. I don't know that I'd call them great songwriters though. Some iconic hits for sure but it's not as if "All Night Long" is lyrically complex.
Willie's such a prolific songwriter he should on his own list.
You've never heard of Carole King? Paul Simon as in Simon & Garfunkel? Smokey Robinson of the Miracles, and one of the most influential Motown musicians ever? Lionel Richie? Nile Rodgers, also of Motown fame? Absolutely no way you don't know who Stevie Wonder is unless you didn't see him (kek). Ditto Dolly Parton and her dittos.
You don't know who Dolly Parton is? She wrote most of her huge number of tits. I mean Hits! 😆 Huge hits!
Don't know Stevie Wonder? Wait is he still alive? Carol King may be less well known, but lots of acts covered her songs with better success/fame.
I'm surprised Brian Eno didn't make the list. This is a personal bias but any music list that doesn't include Phil Collins can lick the cheese under my balls
Ah okay... that would make sense. I thought they meant writing songs for American markets or produced in America, since Bad Bunny is on the list. Is he even actually American?
Someone else also mentioned he's from Puerto Rico; I have no idea, as I'm only familiar with him through headlines that appear when I open a browser, and it's always something about him engaging in some kind of anti-American faggotry.
However, if he is from Puerto Rico or an American-owned island... then I guess it's fair enough for him to be included in the list.
If the list is gonna be filled with niggers, At least make sure they’re real song writers / musical artists like James Brown, Bill Withers, Michael Jackson, etc, rather than that Ebonics garbage that constantly changes the English language just to make their lyrics “work”, if you wanna call it that.
Stephin Merritt is an interesting choice. On one hand, he’s a flamer. On the other hand, he was branded as a racist 20 years ago because he was vocal about not liking rap and said he thought “Zip-A-Dee Doo-Dah” from Song of the South was a great song. I guess the statute of limitations wore out on that one.
What a strange list!! Both for its omissions and its inclusions. Like, with the general theme of the list, they didn't include Lady Gaga? Not as big a star, but for musicality and talent, Ben Folds? Eminem and Kanye are pretty breathtaking omissions when compared to the rappers that were included.
Nick Cave?? Rufus Wainwright? Conor Oberst? Tori Amos? Bjork? Paul McCartney? Pete Townshend?
I'm not even thinking of people I necessarily like, but these are all some seriously talented songwriters.
Bunny doesn't speak a language the overwhelming majority of America understands. Even if you think rap belongs, Kanye certainly is a better writer than Young Thug or Missy Elliott. Eminem is a woke liberal and one of the greatest rappers even but I guess even that can't overcome being a straight white male.
I won't even get into specifics but whoever wrote this rage bait list can get fucked. This is custom designed to make everybody apoplectic no matter where they stand.
lol. Half of these songwriters are absolute shit at writing songs. Mariah Carey? Lionel Ritchie? You kidding me? They're both absolute hacks.
It's the same thing as with the Grammys. Taste in music is so diverse that we've just given up and decided that "popular = good." Madonna is considered better than Modest Mouse because she moved more plastic. Whatever. But I assure you that Isaac Brock can write Mariah Carey into the fucking ground.
Mariah Carey has the second most #1 songs ever and cowrote almost all of them. I know #1 singles isn't the definition of good writing, but it certainly means you can write a ton of songs that appeal to the masses. Can't discount that even if you don't like mainstream stuff. I personally don't think I know many more than a few of her #1s, but it is what it is. Of course, it could have now to do with how good her voice was rather than anyone else.
It's worse than that. Going to #1 means that you've written a song that appeals to the coveted 16-24 demographic. Those are the people who tend to be the most passionate about music and who spend the most on downloads and concert tickets.
Which means that if you're going to #1, you have to pretty much write literal children's music. Your songs will all be about finding a boyfriend or being horny or looking cooler than you are.
They will be immediately understood, lack any and all nuance or poetry, and be based in familiar chord structures. They will be in 4/4 without any key changes; they will be played at about 120 BPM.
Fun fact: Katy Perry brought her first draft of Last Friday Night (T.G.I.F.) to her label, and they told her: this isn't dumb enough. Make it so dumb that the dumbest teenager can understand it, and put in something about group sex.
It was #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 for two weeks. Great songwriting, indeed.
And of course it's four chords on a loop, IV–ii–vi–V, the same as All Star and Just Like Heaven and Closing Time and Knockin' on Heaven's Door, at 126 BPM. When people tell me AI music is uncreative, I just have to scoff.
That may be so, but people can go on and on about music theory and what makes a great song, but all that matters in the end is if people listen to it. You can write the most technical and amazing composition, but if only a small group of people listen to it, then it doesn't matter that much. There are heaps of people who write amazing music and probably do it better than any mainstream artist. I certainly like more complex and deep music than a standard Mariah Carey song, but I bet you that 50 years from now more people will be listening to Mariah Carey belt out All I Want For Christmas Is You than they will some of the greatest song writers of the 20th and early 21st century.
It's the same thing with Taylor Swift. Average singer, average looks (IMO), average songs, typical lyrical topics, but yet people consider her an amazing songwriter because she knows how to write earworms. She already has 14 #1 songs. Yeah, mid-grade mass appeal stuff, but somehow she's the biggest thing around. At least Mariah Carey had one of the best voices in modern pop music and was quite attractive in her prime.
Consider the question "what are the five best hamburgers in the United States."
If the only metric that matters is "units moved," then the best five hamburgers in the country are 1. The McDonald's Cheeseburger; 2. The Big Mac; 3. The Whopper; 4. The McDonald's Quarter Pounder With Cheese; 5. Dave's Single.
It's interesting that when it comes to hamburgers, we can all agree that these are not the best five hamburgers. In fact, these are all examples of garbage food, and are some of the worst hamburgers on the planet.
I tend to see music the same way. Mariah Carey is the Whopper of music. People who listen to Mariah Carey while eating a Whopper give a shit about neither music nor food. They just want to consume product, and that particular product has the distinction of being the most readily available.
and do you think a mainstream publication is going to judge mainstream burgers or niche ones? They may not say that the most popular is the best, but it'll be on the ranking somewhere because people know it.
Also, I'd still make the argument that while Mariah Carey is run of the mill pop music, her vocal abilities are in the top tier. She has a 5-octave vocal range, which isn't all that common.
I mean, I think the list is garbage to begin with. I just find it interesting that Mariah Carey is one of the call outs for not belonging compared to the rest.
15 years ago including Eminem on the list would have been defensible. Post 2010 Eminem has been nothing but corporate slop especially after Trump came on the scene.
His writing track record is undeniably better than Jay-Z though, corporate slop or not.
Okay Ye and Eminen are in the title, so I'll omit them, like the list did. Looks like Paul Simon made the list. That's good. Same with Stevie Wonder.
But really, I mean, no Michael MacDonald, Bob Seger, Kenny Loggins, Phil Bailey, Dave Mustaine, James Hetfield or Lars Ulrich, or even Jimmy Pop?
That's just off the cuff.
If I had to think some more, I know I could come up with more than this.
Herfeild and Ulrich were doing some crazy shit in their younger years. I've only just gotten into Master of Puppets, but holy shit were those dudes ahead of their time, and at such a young age.
This tweet has them written out as a simple list https://x.com/DailyLoud/status/2049124533269836252
This poster will just list the names for you to read:
▫️ Jay-Z
▫️ Young Thug
▫️ Kendrick Lamar
▫️ OutKast
▫️ Missy Elliott
▫️ Mariah Carey
▫️ The-Dream
▫️ Bad Bunny
▫️ Babyface
▫️ Stevie Wonder
▫️ Nile Rodgers
▫️ Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis
▫️ Smokey Robinson
▫️ Lionel Richie
▫️ Taylor Swift
▫️ Lana Del Rey
▫️ Dolly Parton
▫️ Bob Dylan
▫️ Bruce Springsteen
▫️ Paul Simon
▫️ Carole King
▫️ Willie Nelson
▫️ Diane Warren
▫️ Fiona Apple
▫️ Lucinda Williams
▫️ Romeo Santos
▫️ Valerie Simpson
▫️ Brian & Eddie Holland
▫️ Stephin Merritt
▫️ Josh Osborne, Brandy Clark & Shane McAnally
There's only 3 names on that list that are relevant/recognizable: Bob, Bruce and Willie. The rest are literal fucking nobody's.
Paul Simon is the "Simon" in Simon and Garfunkel.
I find it hard to believe you've never heard of Stevie, Lionel, or Smokey unless you're a zoomer. It's always sad to see the legitimately good (usually 70s/80s) black artists on the same lists as shit Jay-Z. Only took a couple decades for the new "executives" to turn it into nothing but crime and degeneracy. I don't know that I'd call them great songwriters though. Some iconic hits for sure but it's not as if "All Night Long" is lyrically complex.
Willie's such a prolific songwriter he should on his own list.
I don’t know half of these people.
Poser or retard, pick one.
You've never heard of Carole King? Paul Simon as in Simon & Garfunkel? Smokey Robinson of the Miracles, and one of the most influential Motown musicians ever? Lionel Richie? Nile Rodgers, also of Motown fame? Absolutely no way you don't know who Stevie Wonder is unless you didn't see him (kek). Ditto Dolly Parton and her dittos.
You don't know who Dolly Parton is? She wrote most of her huge number of tits. I mean Hits! 😆 Huge hits!
Don't know Stevie Wonder? Wait is he still alive? Carol King may be less well known, but lots of acts covered her songs with better success/fame.
Anyhow: Dolly Parton's Tits, the song (PG) 1982
I'm surprised Brian Eno didn't make the list. This is a personal bias but any music list that doesn't include Phil Collins can lick the cheese under my balls
I may dislike most of Collins' songs, but admit he was good at writing them :/
Are Sting, Peter Gabriel, Sam Harris and Seal dead or is this more selective millennial/zoomer zeitgeist listings?
And of course, actual talented song writers such as Jökull Júlíusson get no mention.
Also, Smokey Robinson is still alive? Kind of shocked at that one.
At least Willie Nelson made the list.
Sting? Isn't he British? It's just Americans, eh?
Ah okay... that would make sense. I thought they meant writing songs for American markets or produced in America, since Bad Bunny is on the list. Is he even actually American?
Puerto Rico is a territory of the US.
Isn't he from Puerto Rico? If so, that counts as American, like Guam eh? It's an American territory or protectorate.
Someone else also mentioned he's from Puerto Rico; I have no idea, as I'm only familiar with him through headlines that appear when I open a browser, and it's always something about him engaging in some kind of anti-American faggotry.
However, if he is from Puerto Rico or an American-owned island... then I guess it's fair enough for him to be included in the list.
It's just content-farm rage-baiting. They're all singers, not songwriters.
If the list is gonna be filled with niggers, At least make sure they’re real song writers / musical artists like James Brown, Bill Withers, Michael Jackson, etc, rather than that Ebonics garbage that constantly changes the English language just to make their lyrics “work”, if you wanna call it that.
I wonder if they know OutKast is two different people? Andre 3000 is usually considered the better rapper of the two and the better lyricist.
Stephin Merritt is an interesting choice. On one hand, he’s a flamer. On the other hand, he was branded as a racist 20 years ago because he was vocal about not liking rap and said he thought “Zip-A-Dee Doo-Dah” from Song of the South was a great song. I guess the statute of limitations wore out on that one.
What a strange list!! Both for its omissions and its inclusions. Like, with the general theme of the list, they didn't include Lady Gaga? Not as big a star, but for musicality and talent, Ben Folds? Eminem and Kanye are pretty breathtaking omissions when compared to the rappers that were included.
Nick Cave?? Rufus Wainwright? Conor Oberst? Tori Amos? Bjork? Paul McCartney? Pete Townshend?
I'm not even thinking of people I necessarily like, but these are all some seriously talented songwriters.
lol. I'm dead?
No John Petrucci. List is invalid.
So are we considering rap and Mariah Carey music now?