Disclaimer: Nah, you know what, no disclaimer. Figure it out. Or don't, and call me names. Dealer's choice.
Was just thinking about propaganda and inversion.
Here's the commonly accepted perception:
Israel: Beleaguered state, surrounded by enemies. Constantly attacked. Doesn't get the support it needs. Shunned by the world. Has the right to self defense.
Iran: Official State Sponsor of Terrorism™. Rogue state. Engages in murder and assassination. A danger to the world. Causes chaos in the region. Has nukes.
Not saying Iran is innocent, for the record. They do fund other groups, but if you're talking just the actions of the State itself, Israel is much more involved in terrorism, murder, and assassination than Iran is. Openly, brazenly.
It's amazing how easily you could flip these. DARVO.
Oh boy just wait until you find out about the Holodomor.
BLM, Antifa, and ISIS
When the USA bombs your country without provocation are the "acts of terrorism" really terrorism or is it just Iran's right to defend itself?
Motives are irrelevant to whether something is terrorism.
Things like whether or not they are wearing an identifiable uniform and follow a chain of command, whether they are pretending to be civilians, are picking soft targets with an outsized propaganda effect over picking hard strategic targets with an outsized military effect are relevant.
So what terrorism has Iran actually caused? 911? It's probably more likely to have been Israel behind 911.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKPuxIKl7Lk
Pretty much
Iran has been up to its armpits in the "ethnic cleansing" (genocide) of Iraq. After the USA removed Saddam Hussein and his Sunni officers from control of the Iraqi army, Shiite factions, sponsored by Iran have taken over the country.
Christians and Sunni have all been killed or driven out. The country is more-or-less a puppet state for Iran. This was achieved through systematic executions; which are certainly terrorisms.
The Iraqi state oil reserves are still being exploited by US selected contractors; but the proceeds of the oil sales go to Shiite aligned religious factions that are cozy with Iran.
The Iraqi oil reserves are some of the biggest in the region, partly because others have depleted theirs.
This 100% counts as effective use of terrorism. It has profited Iran and Shiite aligned political actors to the tune of multiple billions of dollars.
And why are they able to do this? Iraq used to have a guy in charge who prevented this. What happened to him? We should probably be going after whoever took him out instead of going after Iran.
I mean regardless of it its our fault for creating the powerful vacuum, they are still the ones committing the action. Nothing is forcing them to do so, and do so in that manner, so they are still responsible for the act even if we are the "bigger evil" to Iraq for setting them into that position to be so weak.
Except the same people behind creating the vaccum are the same people now demanding we take out Iran. And this isn't even the first time they have demanded it. We pulled off a coup there back in the 50s that led directly to the mess we are currently in.
So who are they going to demand we take out next as a result of this new vacuum? I know who we should be taking out. Thankfully millions of others are starting to agree with me.
You are arguing with a position I didn't take.
All I said was Iran still committed the acts, because they are humans responsible for their own actions, regardless on if we set up the situation that lead to them doing so. The US and the Jews can have fucked up hundreds of times horribly leading to this set up, but that doesn't change that the Arabs still actually went ahead and did it and should be judged for that.
Both groups can be evil at once without diminishing the responsibility each one has.
Can you provide more detailed information about that?
Indiana Google search for "Why are there no Christians in Iraq"; and I got articles written as recently as this year.
There have been a few massacres, and the government turns a blind eye to brutal discrimination..Christians are charged higher prices and can't find work. I am sure that Night Letters are regularly used to tell them to leave town or something awful will happen to their kids.
Sadam was secular, but he was strongly against Iran and their influence. In effect, that meant all of the army and the senior government officials of his government were Suni Muslim or non-denominational .
When Iraq was gutted following Gulf War 1, Saddam cut spending to about 80% of the armed forces. The only part of the army really remaining was the officer corps. Officers train men and they perform the executive functions required to run an effective army. With a strong officer corps, the Iraqi army would have been able to train fighting men in six months or a year with more money and more equipment.
Gulf War 2 had the Iraqi army resolved by executive order. At that point all of the officers left. It was clear that the country would fall to the Shiite (Iranian) faction and they would probably be executed.
Some of those officers formed the core of Islamic State.
Islamic State mostly targeted Shiite Muslims, but both the Shiite and Suni factions agree that Christians and Jews can die.
That entire region is openly hostile to Christians since Gulf War 2. Everywhere religious extremists get into power, they shoot the Christians. For a recent example, See Afghanistan since Biden fucked up the pull-out.
So it's directly the fault of the US and not Iran. The US killed (toppled) Saddam Hussein. The US completely destabilized the country not only by bombing the infrastructure and poisoning the soil but by also cleansing the government of any Saddam affiliated individuals and causing the rise of ISIS.
And if we look at Syria where Christians were protected by Assad and Assad was supported by Iran and now a literal Al Qaeda terrorist is in power and accepted by the US and religious minorities are starting to get massacred again... the same shit is happening again. I'm sorry but I'm not sure if I can blame Iran for the tribal insanity and stupidity of Arabs.
Well it wasn't Iran who toppled the secular and stable regimes of Iraq, Libya and Syria. It's not Iran who destabilized the region.
Sounds no different than how the CIA operated for American interests.
Are you joking or nah?
Not at all. Jews have a history of attacking themselves and their allies as a means to gain an excuse to attack others. 911 was used to attack the middle-east to push Israeli-jewish interests so it's very possible they helped coordinate the attack specially for this purpose.
let's think about the targets. so far, Iran has mostly bombed civilians in Israel. some launchers might have been hit, but a lot of their missiles are flying into straight-up apartment complexes.
I have yet to hear of Iran actually hitting US military bases, or the US itself.
Instead of self-defense, they seem to be engaging more in mutually assured destruction.
Propaganda. Unverifiable.
Propaganda. Unverifiable.
Iran hit a military base. There, now you've heard it. But even if you heard it from someone else, it would be propaganda. Unverifiable.
A conclusion based on propaganda and unverifiable information so, it's a worthless conclusion.
where are you getting your information then? or are you just being contrarian?
I'm just saying no one's information is accurate. It's fog of war. Everything is compromised. Unless you have your own military with satellite imagery, and have boots on the ground gathering intel, no one knows what's truly going on and even then you could be wrong as evidenced by many wars in which governments had wrong information over things that supposedly occured.
Israel needs to stop hiding military targets behind civilians. I said the magic words, so they are now valid targets. Good for the goose, good for the gander.
*this time. There's been countless attacks in the past BY Iran ON the US military and civilians too. Remember the 444 days?
not even a proxy or ""rogue"" terrorist cell? that's news to me. do you have any examples?
They destroyed a few empty buildings after Trump assassinated Suleimani.
They have directly fired various rockets & missiles from Iran at various US installations, yes. Even if they "use a proxy" it's still them. Proxy attacks are numerous, yes?
got an example? News reports? Videos? Insider testimony? Satellite images? anything?
Get real, this has been ongoing since they took American Diplomats hostage for 444 days. They never needed "provocation" the mere existence of America enrages them. | https://www.airandspaceforces.com/coyote-air-defense-weapon-shoots-down-drones-us-syria/
There's been an endless stream of Iran attacking the US.
you could have led with that
"Iran shouts Death to America"
I'm sure that's for no reason at all...
Surely not because they want to destroy Israel and America! Heck no! They're the religion of peace!
If Hitler and Hirohito had A-Bombs, they never would have used them to destroy London & Moscow or Pearl & LA. Heck no!
If you want to conflate the situation in the middle east with WW2's very different belligerents, that's on you.
Backing Israel is what painted a target on our backs in the first place. Which might be for good reason if US and Israeli goals were in alignment, but anyone who hasn't drunk the koolaid can see they aren't.
Iran is still a rogue state that engages in murder and assassination as is Israel