that was indeed the best advice circa 1990 to 2010. unfortunately, the flood of people entering that field has saturated the market, both abroad and domestically.
most Code monkey jobs are software engineering anyway, not computer engineering. they honestly don't care that you know exactly how a computer works, what the boot process is like, and how to manipulate the kernel. they just want to know if you can build a web page, and build it faster than Saars McJeetson.
This was intentional by the Department Of Labor in order to drive down the cost of people who are skilled in mathematical and scientific concepts, because most people are fucking afraid of fractions.
Firstly, the financial industry gets cheaper analytical minds. Second, the government believes it is necessary to keep a pile of already trained STEM grads available in the event of a high-kinetic war that would require use of advanced weapons or new engineering efforts.
There is a "lack" is extremely intelligent researchers, but most of that is because the higher education system is so foundationally broken, that there's no mechanism of identifying or training people to the standards that industries are looking for in research. Then there's the garbage that research is putting out, and the replication crisis on top of that, and the peer-review system being broken on top of that.
We've never been more over-educated, and less intellectually capable, but foreigners aren't going to fix that either.
I think it was about 15 years ago that someone leaked the code used by a prominent climate researcher at an institution called “CRU” - the code was atrocious and included hardcoded temperature adjustments.
Nice post. Agreed. Good insight about the STEM + Defense link. I feel that's also what these tariffs and fixes to the "supply-chain" are ultimate about also. Ensuring the USA is better capable in a war.
that was indeed the best advice circa 1990 to 2010. unfortunately, the flood of people entering that field has saturated the market, both abroad and domestically.
I assume that it's not just a game of quantity, but also quality. When it's just nerds and computer enthusiasts entering a field, the quality is quite high, and there's intrinsic motivation. When a flood of people comes in for the high pay, that diminishes a lot.
This tracks with my experience 15 years ago. There were kids who clearly didn't belong there but managed to cheat or otherwise scrape their way over the finish line who had no business in the field. I'd imagine it's a lot worse now.
I graduated university about 10 years ago. One of my degrees was math. It wasn't even that the kids cheated. It's that once they passed through the so-called filter courses like Calculus 2, it was nearly impossible to fail. Even if the courses were difficult, a combination of making the exams easier and grading very leniently made sure all the idiots passed. One of the reasons when I came home with my diploma I told my parents they could have it lmao.
It is depressing when I see how unimpressed people are. They claim to be impressed by every new thing when it comes, like AI recently but you show this very elegant solution that makes things easier for a lot of coworkers and they just don't care. You can make this extremely cool solution and then make it implementable for various clients and they look at it like it is nothing.
Computer engineering is a terrible degree for employ-ability as a newbie. You're too specific and don't have enough software experience, you'd end up where I did in something like telecom not using the computer stuff at all. I did systems engineering back when it was a new thing, and really it was a good choice. I was eligible for licensure if I wanted to go the ME/EE route so I had that door. I purposefully stuck my hands into everything and it worked out that I can totally go argue with construction guy that angle iron is bad material for that because it's too weak, a power guy about load and cabling, and then get back to my normal work. Expert on nothing from school but above average on most. I did everything from computer engineering to learning to use a mill and a lathe.
Not that I'd point someone to college as much anymore, but if I did it would never be computer engineering or IT really.
IT especially is something that shouldn't require a college degree. it requires a lot of knowledge, but a lot of specific knowledge and know how. it's a field that belongs in trade schools.
There was a point in time where this was true but that point in time ended a decade ago.
Still, even then it was mostly just Engineering and CompSci where there was an advantage in hiring. Engineering still generally has an advantage but mainly if you stick to Mechanical, Electrical and Chemical & stay away from the niche ones.
The thing no one ever tells other people about degrees is that your intelligence/competence and personability/presentability//networking capabilities matter more than the degree itself. Past the 1970s, just getting a degree has rarely ever been enough outside of small periods of time where niche fields have high demand.
It's the least competitive and most monopolized industry. Where are there only two search providers? Four major broadband providers? Three cellular companies? Two operating system vendors?
These are not natural monopolies. They only exist because the CIA wants to spy on everyone and this was the easiest way to make that happen.
Art history isn't useless. Musea need curators and the many people who work on preservation and documentation of priceless art objects.
I'm pretty sure the STEM people get paid way more than the art history people. I'd guess that the art history would jump at the chance to get a job that the STEM people reject.
Canadian Twitter is a daily humiliation ritual with some of the center-right guys liks Jon Kay & Chris Brunet posting job openings at every university for STEM faculty & research positions explicitly barring White straight men from being considered.
That sounds like more of a problem for publicly traded companies that strangle the golden goose (aka stop paying attention to the product) in a chase for the mythical neverending growth.
that was indeed the best advice circa 1990 to 2010. unfortunately, the flood of people entering that field has saturated the market, both abroad and domestically.
most Code monkey jobs are software engineering anyway, not computer engineering. they honestly don't care that you know exactly how a computer works, what the boot process is like, and how to manipulate the kernel. they just want to know if you can build a web page, and build it faster than Saars McJeetson.
This was intentional by the Department Of Labor in order to drive down the cost of people who are skilled in mathematical and scientific concepts, because most people are fucking afraid of fractions.
Firstly, the financial industry gets cheaper analytical minds. Second, the government believes it is necessary to keep a pile of already trained STEM grads available in the event of a high-kinetic war that would require use of advanced weapons or new engineering efforts.
There is a "lack" is extremely intelligent researchers, but most of that is because the higher education system is so foundationally broken, that there's no mechanism of identifying or training people to the standards that industries are looking for in research. Then there's the garbage that research is putting out, and the replication crisis on top of that, and the peer-review system being broken on top of that.
We've never been more over-educated, and less intellectually capable, but foreigners aren't going to fix that either.
I think it was about 15 years ago that someone leaked the code used by a prominent climate researcher at an institution called “CRU” - the code was atrocious and included hardcoded temperature adjustments.
So yeah, it’s bad.
This tracks for scientists. They are notoriously bad at writing code as compared to anyone with a lick of formal training.
Nice post. Agreed. Good insight about the STEM + Defense link. I feel that's also what these tariffs and fixes to the "supply-chain" are ultimate about also. Ensuring the USA is better capable in a war.
Yeah, that's one of the primary factions within the administration.
Weirdly enough, it's a good way to get the military-industrial complex on our side.
I assume that it's not just a game of quantity, but also quality. When it's just nerds and computer enthusiasts entering a field, the quality is quite high, and there's intrinsic motivation. When a flood of people comes in for the high pay, that diminishes a lot.
Quality hasn't mattered in software for a long time.
If you can get code 60% functional from pajeets who cost 15% as much as an American, companies take that trade every time.
...and we wonder why software is getting worse and worse.
This is how the world works now. Lying and taking advantage of people is what gets you ahead.
This tracks with my experience 15 years ago. There were kids who clearly didn't belong there but managed to cheat or otherwise scrape their way over the finish line who had no business in the field. I'd imagine it's a lot worse now.
I graduated university about 10 years ago. One of my degrees was math. It wasn't even that the kids cheated. It's that once they passed through the so-called filter courses like Calculus 2, it was nearly impossible to fail. Even if the courses were difficult, a combination of making the exams easier and grading very leniently made sure all the idiots passed. One of the reasons when I came home with my diploma I told my parents they could have it lmao.
It is depressing when I see how unimpressed people are. They claim to be impressed by every new thing when it comes, like AI recently but you show this very elegant solution that makes things easier for a lot of coworkers and they just don't care. You can make this extremely cool solution and then make it implementable for various clients and they look at it like it is nothing.
Computer engineering is a terrible degree for employ-ability as a newbie. You're too specific and don't have enough software experience, you'd end up where I did in something like telecom not using the computer stuff at all. I did systems engineering back when it was a new thing, and really it was a good choice. I was eligible for licensure if I wanted to go the ME/EE route so I had that door. I purposefully stuck my hands into everything and it worked out that I can totally go argue with construction guy that angle iron is bad material for that because it's too weak, a power guy about load and cabling, and then get back to my normal work. Expert on nothing from school but above average on most. I did everything from computer engineering to learning to use a mill and a lathe.
Not that I'd point someone to college as much anymore, but if I did it would never be computer engineering or IT really.
IT especially is something that shouldn't require a college degree. it requires a lot of knowledge, but a lot of specific knowledge and know how. it's a field that belongs in trade schools.
Importing legions of H1's will do that.
The outsourcing to foreign countries isn't helping any either. I want companies to stop being international.
No. They're actively shitting in my operating system. I want them gone entirely.
Sadly stem is far from a guarantee at getting a job. Its remarkable how much of a lie that was to people.
There was a point in time where this was true but that point in time ended a decade ago.
Still, even then it was mostly just Engineering and CompSci where there was an advantage in hiring. Engineering still generally has an advantage but mainly if you stick to Mechanical, Electrical and Chemical & stay away from the niche ones.
The thing no one ever tells other people about degrees is that your intelligence/competence and personability/presentability//networking capabilities matter more than the degree itself. Past the 1970s, just getting a degree has rarely ever been enough outside of small periods of time where niche fields have high demand.
Most imports are javascript typists who can glue "frameworks" to stitch together an "app" or "website".
They are effectively illiterate when it comes to the science behind computing.
Most companies employ them en masse and keep a minority of capable US talent as hedge for when shit hits the fan and actual engineering is necessary.
The imports are docile, produce millions upon millions of copy paste/boilerplate "code" and keep wages down.
The system is working as designed.
It's the least competitive and most monopolized industry. Where are there only two search providers? Four major broadband providers? Three cellular companies? Two operating system vendors?
These are not natural monopolies. They only exist because the CIA wants to spy on everyone and this was the easiest way to make that happen.
Two things:
Canadian Twitter is a daily humiliation ritual with some of the center-right guys liks Jon Kay & Chris Brunet posting job openings at every university for STEM faculty & research positions explicitly barring White straight men from being considered.
That sounds like more of a problem for publicly traded companies that strangle the golden goose (aka stop paying attention to the product) in a chase for the mythical neverending growth.
yeah i'm sure the ganges overspill isn't helping