Reading the article, it sounds like they're focusing hydrogen for heavy goods vehicles while EV for private 'light' vehicles.
It'd be better if it was ALL hydrogen as it's an effective source of energy but I suppose if you work out a way to use it for all vehicles while effectively store and produce it at home, it's harder to justify why the west should give a fuck about anywhere else.
Not really. With high temperature process for instance, producing the hydrogen under pressure only takes like 1% more energy.
Sticking two electrodes in a glass of saltwater and then compressing that hydrogen to useful pressure takes a lot of energy.
There are some complications with hydrogen but most of what you hear is FUD. Usually from EV crowd because most hydrogen now is made from fossil fuels.
I found a writeup once of someone who built a solar hydrogen power generation system for his home. He had to use multiple 500 gallon propane tanks (which wasn't ideal because they apparently were "leaky" to hydrogen, but it was the only thing he could reasonably find to use) to store all the hydrogen he needed for the system.
But if you lived in the woods somewhere in the middle of nowhere, that kind of thing might work pretty well.
Hydrogen is t a source of energy. It is a way to store energy.
The energy density of hydrogen makes it prohibitively inefficient with regard to storage and transport. Hydrogen has a tiny fraction of the energy density of diesel. This gives hydrogen powered trucks a much lower range than diesel or a reduced cargo capacity. Pick one.
Hydrogen produced at home by electrolysis would be a low pressure gas. It takes as much again more energy to compress and cool the hydrogen into a cytogenetic liquid. This energy is lost to the atmosphere when the hydrogen is burned.
A hydrogen powered car is just na electric car at about 25% efficiency with extra steps. The (small) advantages of range are not worth the cost and difficulty of dealing with cryogenic liquids that boill off even when stored in a double walled vacuum flask.
Modern industrial scale hydrogen production is from crude oil. That is why hydrogen is produced by the Shell Oil Company. It is dirty as fuck. I will tell you why if you ask.
the hilarious thing is that, if it wasn't for the push for EVs, this could have easily caught on. the supply chain was a bit more complicated than gasoline given that hydrogen has to be compressed, but the stability and energy density of hydrogen is very similar to gasoline.
I am sure human ingenuity could have made a docking system for quick hydrogen tank filling or swaping for people's cars.
It's never going to happen because the goal was always to strip the plebs of mobility to force them to live in the pod city.
My nation swims in 100% renewable electricity yet electric battery vehicles are still uncommon. We'll run out of components to make the batteries before supplying the demand if we were to replace gas cars anyway, so the WEF plan is rather obvious.
Handling hydrogen requires special tanks, pumps, interfaces, and industrial processes which would all be subject to centralized regulation and control. It doesn't empower the plebs or whatever any more than gasoline or battery powered vehicles.
I'm actually working on a hydrogen storage system for dispensing to h2 powered vehicles. Nobody (that I'm aware of) stores this as a liquid. It's all 6k-10k+ psi gas that gets regulated down to some lower level for the actual dispensation
The energy density of compressed gas hydrogen is just laughably low. The number of trucks it takes to haul around the equivalent of a truck full of diesel fuel as energy stored of pressurized gas hydrogen is pretty staggering.
It has been a while since I did a review of the state of the art, but I seem to remember something like 30 times the number of trucks.
Even if it was only five times the number of trucks, that is still a prohibitive cost for transport logistics.
Yep, volumetric energy density of compressed gaseous hydrogen is laughable. Even cryogenic liquid hydrogen is not great and then you have all the crazy overhead of cryogenic storage.
While in theory it has similar energy density, in practice it doesn’t because you have to build a heavy containment chamber for the pressurized gas. That said it’s still better than EVs and you can fuel up like gasoline instead of waiting around for +30 minutes.
Cars that run on natutral gas are a gas engine with a new tank and a modified intake manifold. It is not a complicated conversion, butit does require certification and a regular tank testing like any gas bottle.
LNG burns very clean compared to gas or diesel. The exhaust is almost entirely CO2.
Reading the article, it sounds like they're focusing hydrogen for heavy goods vehicles while EV for private 'light' vehicles.
It'd be better if it was ALL hydrogen as it's an effective source of energy but I suppose if you work out a way to use it for all vehicles while effectively store and produce it at home, it's harder to justify why the west should give a fuck about anywhere else.
producing hydrogen at home is indeed very easy, the problem is producing enough and compressing it to be viable.
Not really. With high temperature process for instance, producing the hydrogen under pressure only takes like 1% more energy.
Sticking two electrodes in a glass of saltwater and then compressing that hydrogen to useful pressure takes a lot of energy.
There are some complications with hydrogen but most of what you hear is FUD. Usually from EV crowd because most hydrogen now is made from fossil fuels.
I found a writeup once of someone who built a solar hydrogen power generation system for his home. He had to use multiple 500 gallon propane tanks (which wasn't ideal because they apparently were "leaky" to hydrogen, but it was the only thing he could reasonably find to use) to store all the hydrogen he needed for the system.
But if you lived in the woods somewhere in the middle of nowhere, that kind of thing might work pretty well.
Hydrogen is very leak prone and worse it makes metals that it's exposed to brittle (hydrogen embrittlement).
It's not as simple as it sounds on the surface.
Nope.jpeg
In layman's terms, we would call that a bomb.
A 500 gallon propane tank filled with propane is also a bomb m8.
Granted the propane tank is likely not rated for H2 and will leak for sure, but just keep anything with the potential to spark 15 ft away
If you wanna make your own fuel, hydrogen is just an extremely hard way to do it. You can make ethanol or methanol more easily.
Or biodiesel. It's easier to find cars to modify for this.
Okay, a lot of confusion here.
Hydrogen is t a source of energy. It is a way to store energy.
The energy density of hydrogen makes it prohibitively inefficient with regard to storage and transport. Hydrogen has a tiny fraction of the energy density of diesel. This gives hydrogen powered trucks a much lower range than diesel or a reduced cargo capacity. Pick one.
Hydrogen produced at home by electrolysis would be a low pressure gas. It takes as much again more energy to compress and cool the hydrogen into a cytogenetic liquid. This energy is lost to the atmosphere when the hydrogen is burned.
A hydrogen powered car is just na electric car at about 25% efficiency with extra steps. The (small) advantages of range are not worth the cost and difficulty of dealing with cryogenic liquids that boill off even when stored in a double walled vacuum flask.
Modern industrial scale hydrogen production is from crude oil. That is why hydrogen is produced by the Shell Oil Company. It is dirty as fuck. I will tell you why if you ask.
I can't figure out why they use it.
U should post this somewhere else, too. Very succinct summary of the craziness of hydrogen. I don't hate the molecule. I just don't get it.
Noooooooooo you're only supposed to read headlines in current year REEEE!!!
the hilarious thing is that, if it wasn't for the push for EVs, this could have easily caught on. the supply chain was a bit more complicated than gasoline given that hydrogen has to be compressed, but the stability and energy density of hydrogen is very similar to gasoline.
Per unit mass, sure. Per unit volume, no, not at all, and it's not even close.
I am sure human ingenuity could have made a docking system for quick hydrogen tank filling or swaping for people's cars.
It's never going to happen because the goal was always to strip the plebs of mobility to force them to live in the pod city.
My nation swims in 100% renewable electricity yet electric battery vehicles are still uncommon. We'll run out of components to make the batteries before supplying the demand if we were to replace gas cars anyway, so the WEF plan is rather obvious.
Handling hydrogen requires special tanks, pumps, interfaces, and industrial processes which would all be subject to centralized regulation and control. It doesn't empower the plebs or whatever any more than gasoline or battery powered vehicles.
So does gasoline.
Gasoline isn't a cryogenic liquid. It doesn't boil off through a double walled vacuum flask.
A tank of Hydrogen will boil off to be vented to the atmosphere in a matter of weeks, depending on the tank size.
I'm actually working on a hydrogen storage system for dispensing to h2 powered vehicles. Nobody (that I'm aware of) stores this as a liquid. It's all 6k-10k+ psi gas that gets regulated down to some lower level for the actual dispensation
The energy density of compressed gas hydrogen is just laughably low. The number of trucks it takes to haul around the equivalent of a truck full of diesel fuel as energy stored of pressurized gas hydrogen is pretty staggering.
It has been a while since I did a review of the state of the art, but I seem to remember something like 30 times the number of trucks.
Even if it was only five times the number of trucks, that is still a prohibitive cost for transport logistics.
Yes, that is why I directly compared it to gasoline in the second sentence of my post.
Yep, volumetric energy density of compressed gaseous hydrogen is laughable. Even cryogenic liquid hydrogen is not great and then you have all the crazy overhead of cryogenic storage.
While in theory it has similar energy density, in practice it doesn’t because you have to build a heavy containment chamber for the pressurized gas. That said it’s still better than EVs and you can fuel up like gasoline instead of waiting around for +30 minutes.
My neighbor has a nat gas van. Sounds the same running. Hes fine with it, gotta go to the local praxair gasses company but theres several around.
Cars that run on natutral gas are a gas engine with a new tank and a modified intake manifold. It is not a complicated conversion, butit does require certification and a regular tank testing like any gas bottle.
LNG burns very clean compared to gas or diesel. The exhaust is almost entirely CO2.
Hydrogen combustion engines can also be built, although that solves none of the problems of hydrogen that I can see.
Kind of funny. California just spent almost 200 million a few months ago buying hydrogen fueled vehicles for agency use.