I agree, but you know as well as I do that this will not happen…
No court in Current Year will prosecute that. They know that a literal mob can just be called up in response…
Which is to say, should this happen (giving their money back)..? Absolutely yes.
Will it happen? I very, very much doubt it.
I’ve dealt with enough university administration parasites in my own place to know that they do not readily give things back, including and especially money…
Because in general, again from experience, when someone in a position of relative “power” knows that they don’t have to do something, they simply won’t do it, until and unless they are made to…
From experience, again, no, these people don’t care about “morals”. “Morals are relative”, after all!
They care about money, and securing their own position/reputation/tenure.
This doesn’t necessarily go for, say, tutors, but pretty much every lecturer I’ve met has been like that, and the Admin staff/deans/degree coordinators are some of the worst people I have had to work under…
I’m really very jaded about this shit.
One thing I will say, though: we like to blame the academics themselves, here, but I feel that we tend to underestimate the massive power and influence that career admin staff have…
They ruined my life (long story). I’m not entirely sure I will ever fully recover from that. And every time I have dealt with one since, they’ve behaved with the same utter arrogance and sheer contempt…
Two Unis (three, if we’re including work). Three states. Like, 5 campuses. Three/Four cities…
Again, that's reflective of how this managerial coup tends to work.
The face of the organisation is the very last thing to get replaced. By the time the face is showing cracks the entire rest of the organisation has been lost to corruption already.
Yeah, they basically think they are the government. It's annoying. My parents live near a university, and the strange bubble between the town and it are weird. The locals and students don't meet together or even go to the same bar. Also, the local deer population knows how to cross the street better than the students.
But it was also very much a working class port town (things in Australia don’t always work the way they do in the US, remember).
So imagine that, but on steroids…
10% of the population (including me, briefly, before reality kicked me in the teeth) largely looking down on the other nearly 90%…
We hardly interacted with “the locals”, while living on campus. I’m sure it was probably different for the girls, but on a night out, I hung out with the other students, and my friends were nearly all other students/staff/had something to do with the Uni…
Not sustainable, and not good. As I have repeatedly mentioned, I lost it all…
This is why socialism makes sense to them. Their entire world is that bubble and they can't see the garbageman or any worker. So they're perfect world is kept in a bubble that is supported by people they can't see. The world they live in has central control and everything is provided. Why doesn't anyone else want this?
To be fair, some of the staff that work in those places are entitled as heck, too…
Particularly “student staff” (i.e. they both work and study there)…
The amount of times I’ve seen cleaners throw away people’s shit, say, in a library or computer lab, when they nipped out to the bathroom or something - too many to count, lol…
Which… Teaches you some harsh life lessons, sure. But fucking hell are they overzealous…
It’s especially frustrating when you see that it’s something important to someone, like, say, a necklace, and then the Uni student-staff just throw it away, instead of keeping it for safekeeping, because to them, it “has no value”…
Mao Zhe Dong supposedly worked at a university library. The librarians in China are very much like that. If it has no meaning to them, and brings no glory, then it won't happen. A friend speaks and writes in Chinese, but wasn't allowed inside the university library because he was white. His assistant had to look up the books, and write down quotes for him to use.
Dated a girl in college who worked at the uni. She ended up filing a false abuse charge and then stalking me for months. Ended up having to wage a PR war, including articles in the uni and local papers about her.
Yeah. For me, it meant that when things went wrong, I had nothing to fall back on…
My job was internal. My accommodation was internal. My sports teams were internal. My friends were (initially, largely) internal. I spent more time (again, disastrously) hanging out in the major city one hour away than I did in my city of residence, outside of the Uni…
I tried to change this (particularly in first year, before shit hit the fan, and in third year, coming back to try, and fail, again), and to spend more time in and around the city itself, but it did not work out for me…
I was dumb, naïve and immature. So were most other people, but they coped better/I guess were more mentally “capable”…
Unfortunately a caveat to my own failure in that environment is that “closed bubbles”, like you say, mean that real psychos can have massively undue influence…
I met and dealt with a couple of those.
Again, this never comes down to one single thing, but if I had just… Not had to live with those psychos, when I did, or if students weren’t, in general, such selfish fucking arseholes, then maybe I would not be the fucking mess I am today…
I also lived with another guy who was an abusive Muslim (Palestinian) alcoholic - yes, really…
He worked as a security guard/doorman, and regularly wandered around the college, drunk and loutish…
Anyway, end of the year, he is hired as head residential advisor, in charge of a whole hall full of grad students, even though he was still an Undergrad!!
Just imagine what might have gone down, with him in charge…
I was so appalled by all of these things that I outlined, that I pulled out of the “race” to be considered for a resident advisor position at that college, and, for a while, moved into private housing…
I pretty much spiraled from there.
Next place I lived (college) had three (!!) suicide attempts, one success, in a semester. Almost qualifies as a cluster, at that point…
It’s amazing the kind of bad shit you see when you pay attention, in that kind of environment…
Lived with a guy, in first year, who would throw a broom over the top of the bathroom stall to hit me, when I went into the toilet, slammed my head into a wall a couple of times, etc.
I fought back, but in a world of “my word vs yours”, it ended up worse off for me…
He ended up as head of the student union, embezzled a bunch of money (surprise surprise), and was eventually indicted for fraud, lol…
I also had a staff member crush a bird to death, in front of me, in their bare hands, to prevent me taking it to the vet (as you do)…
Just… Stuff like that. Lots and lots of things like that. Eventually it adds up.
It’s interesting because that happened to me before, in High School, when I branched out from mostly having friends I went to school with, or who my parents wanted me to be friends with, to people from all sorts of backgrounds and walks of life…
I still fucked it up, and they’re all long gone out of my life, now, but if my “bubble” had remained as exclusive as, say, my parents wanted it to be in school, or as I saw in far too many of those college kids, I guess… I probably wouldn’t have even made it this far.
The “bubble” is ok, as you say, until the realities no longer meet (whether that be marks, or being ostracized from “the group”, or financial trouble, or just realizing something is “off”)…
I don’t know, in the end. But I do know that “being stuck in that bubble”, and not really feeling that you belong, has consequences.
At least I’ve learned to let go of some of the paranoia, though. Today I was exposed to just how paranoid and petty my parents are, having not seen that for a while. It’s no wonder I ended up so anxious, ha.
So I agree that university life in many places looks like socialism. I don't understand why anybody would be confused about life based on that when you can see the inputs and outputs
Expect future gifts to have clauses that demand the performance of certain duties by the university or the gift is revoked.
I believe this isn't uncommon in museum donations- the museum is required to put an item on display or return it. Which makes sense if you're donating something for the public to enjoy rather than sit in a box in the museum's warehouse.
It's probably considered unseemly to demand that buildings be named after you, but I could certainly see something like a no disparagement clause attached to Future donations.
Yeah I thought it was one of those cases where it was always "understood" between both sides that if you donate enough money you get a building named after you, but was never explicitly demanded.
FYI - basic legal precedent for gifts is that once given, there's no recourse to compel their return unless a gift is conditional and a condition is breached.
Good for them. States need to start taxing the unholy hell out of the multi-billion dollar endowments a lot of these woke universities are sitting on too. Use the money for proper STEM and vocational training.
I would make the same demand. If you don't want me, then you don't want my money.
I agree, but you know as well as I do that this will not happen…
No court in Current Year will prosecute that. They know that a literal mob can just be called up in response…
Which is to say, should this happen (giving their money back)..? Absolutely yes.
Will it happen? I very, very much doubt it.
I’ve dealt with enough university administration parasites in my own place to know that they do not readily give things back, including and especially money…
Because in general, again from experience, when someone in a position of relative “power” knows that they don’t have to do something, they simply won’t do it, until and unless they are made to…
That’s my 20c, anyway.
Agreed. Unless there's legal documents stating that the funds are contingent upon the name, all you've got is a moral case.
I cannot picture university staff being concerned with any kind of moral case, given the environment they have created to work in.
From experience, again, no, these people don’t care about “morals”. “Morals are relative”, after all!
They care about money, and securing their own position/reputation/tenure.
This doesn’t necessarily go for, say, tutors, but pretty much every lecturer I’ve met has been like that, and the Admin staff/deans/degree coordinators are some of the worst people I have had to work under…
I’m really very jaded about this shit.
One thing I will say, though: we like to blame the academics themselves, here, but I feel that we tend to underestimate the massive power and influence that career admin staff have…
They ruined my life (long story). I’m not entirely sure I will ever fully recover from that. And every time I have dealt with one since, they’ve behaved with the same utter arrogance and sheer contempt…
Two Unis (three, if we’re including work). Three states. Like, 5 campuses. Three/Four cities…
Same shit.
Again, that's reflective of how this managerial coup tends to work.
The face of the organisation is the very last thing to get replaced. By the time the face is showing cracks the entire rest of the organisation has been lost to corruption already.
Yeah, they basically think they are the government. It's annoying. My parents live near a university, and the strange bubble between the town and it are weird. The locals and students don't meet together or even go to the same bar. Also, the local deer population knows how to cross the street better than the students.
I lived in a “University town”, too, for a while…
But it was also very much a working class port town (things in Australia don’t always work the way they do in the US, remember).
So imagine that, but on steroids…
10% of the population (including me, briefly, before reality kicked me in the teeth) largely looking down on the other nearly 90%…
We hardly interacted with “the locals”, while living on campus. I’m sure it was probably different for the girls, but on a night out, I hung out with the other students, and my friends were nearly all other students/staff/had something to do with the Uni…
Not sustainable, and not good. As I have repeatedly mentioned, I lost it all…
So yeah, I get that. I really do.
This is why socialism makes sense to them. Their entire world is that bubble and they can't see the garbageman or any worker. So they're perfect world is kept in a bubble that is supported by people they can't see. The world they live in has central control and everything is provided. Why doesn't anyone else want this?
To be fair, some of the staff that work in those places are entitled as heck, too…
Particularly “student staff” (i.e. they both work and study there)…
The amount of times I’ve seen cleaners throw away people’s shit, say, in a library or computer lab, when they nipped out to the bathroom or something - too many to count, lol…
Which… Teaches you some harsh life lessons, sure. But fucking hell are they overzealous…
It’s especially frustrating when you see that it’s something important to someone, like, say, a necklace, and then the Uni student-staff just throw it away, instead of keeping it for safekeeping, because to them, it “has no value”…
I’ve seen some shit, dude. 😑
Mao Zhe Dong supposedly worked at a university library. The librarians in China are very much like that. If it has no meaning to them, and brings no glory, then it won't happen. A friend speaks and writes in Chinese, but wasn't allowed inside the university library because he was white. His assistant had to look up the books, and write down quotes for him to use.
Jesus, that’s rough…
Then again, as we now know, some college libraries in America have “black student societies” who act similarly, do they not..?
As long as it’s against whitey, anything goes…
Dated a girl in college who worked at the uni. She ended up filing a false abuse charge and then stalking me for months. Ended up having to wage a PR war, including articles in the uni and local papers about her.
I had vaguely similar experiences, although it never got that far, lol… 😑
In one case, i saved a girl I knew from choking on her own vomit, then got accused of “assault”…
Unfortunately, this doesn’t seem all that uncommon…
Sorry you went through that, too.
Yeah. For me, it meant that when things went wrong, I had nothing to fall back on…
My job was internal. My accommodation was internal. My sports teams were internal. My friends were (initially, largely) internal. I spent more time (again, disastrously) hanging out in the major city one hour away than I did in my city of residence, outside of the Uni…
I tried to change this (particularly in first year, before shit hit the fan, and in third year, coming back to try, and fail, again), and to spend more time in and around the city itself, but it did not work out for me…
I was dumb, naïve and immature. So were most other people, but they coped better/I guess were more mentally “capable”…
Unfortunately a caveat to my own failure in that environment is that “closed bubbles”, like you say, mean that real psychos can have massively undue influence…
I met and dealt with a couple of those.
Again, this never comes down to one single thing, but if I had just… Not had to live with those psychos, when I did, or if students weren’t, in general, such selfish fucking arseholes, then maybe I would not be the fucking mess I am today…
Maybe.
You should just tell us what happened.
I also lived with another guy who was an abusive Muslim (Palestinian) alcoholic - yes, really…
He worked as a security guard/doorman, and regularly wandered around the college, drunk and loutish…
Anyway, end of the year, he is hired as head residential advisor, in charge of a whole hall full of grad students, even though he was still an Undergrad!!
Just imagine what might have gone down, with him in charge…
I was so appalled by all of these things that I outlined, that I pulled out of the “race” to be considered for a resident advisor position at that college, and, for a while, moved into private housing…
I pretty much spiraled from there.
Next place I lived (college) had three (!!) suicide attempts, one success, in a semester. Almost qualifies as a cluster, at that point…
It’s amazing the kind of bad shit you see when you pay attention, in that kind of environment…
Lived with a guy, in first year, who would throw a broom over the top of the bathroom stall to hit me, when I went into the toilet, slammed my head into a wall a couple of times, etc.
I fought back, but in a world of “my word vs yours”, it ended up worse off for me…
He ended up as head of the student union, embezzled a bunch of money (surprise surprise), and was eventually indicted for fraud, lol…
I also had a staff member crush a bird to death, in front of me, in their bare hands, to prevent me taking it to the vet (as you do)…
Just… Stuff like that. Lots and lots of things like that. Eventually it adds up.
I think they just went along with it and you didn't. You started to recognize the bubble but couldn't get the realities to meet.
Yeah, I guess that’s at least part of it…
It’s interesting because that happened to me before, in High School, when I branched out from mostly having friends I went to school with, or who my parents wanted me to be friends with, to people from all sorts of backgrounds and walks of life…
I still fucked it up, and they’re all long gone out of my life, now, but if my “bubble” had remained as exclusive as, say, my parents wanted it to be in school, or as I saw in far too many of those college kids, I guess… I probably wouldn’t have even made it this far.
The “bubble” is ok, as you say, until the realities no longer meet (whether that be marks, or being ostracized from “the group”, or financial trouble, or just realizing something is “off”)…
I don’t know, in the end. But I do know that “being stuck in that bubble”, and not really feeling that you belong, has consequences.
At least I’ve learned to let go of some of the paranoia, though. Today I was exposed to just how paranoid and petty my parents are, having not seen that for a while. It’s no wonder I ended up so anxious, ha.
But at least I got out of the bubble, I guess. :)
So I agree that university life in many places looks like socialism. I don't understand why anybody would be confused about life based on that when you can see the inputs and outputs
The outputs are hidden. They always recommend academic life and then say the real world is too easy.
Inflation.
No 2c coin in Straya. 😛 Not anymore, anyway, lol…
I’m not so good at “short, snappy” answers, as I am sure you have noticed by now! 😂
Expect future gifts to have clauses that demand the performance of certain duties by the university or the gift is revoked.
I believe this isn't uncommon in museum donations- the museum is required to put an item on display or return it. Which makes sense if you're donating something for the public to enjoy rather than sit in a box in the museum's warehouse.
It's probably considered unseemly to demand that buildings be named after you, but I could certainly see something like a no disparagement clause attached to Future donations.
Yeah I thought it was one of those cases where it was always "understood" between both sides that if you donate enough money you get a building named after you, but was never explicitly demanded.
FYI - basic legal precedent for gifts is that once given, there's no recourse to compel their return unless a gift is conditional and a condition is breached.
Good for them. States need to start taxing the unholy hell out of the multi-billion dollar endowments a lot of these woke universities are sitting on too. Use the money for proper STEM and vocational training.
Tell the school it's just reperations.
Yup. The naming right was purchased. Keeping the money, is now fraud.
But that Biden's America, too.
EDIT: fixed the imitative dementia-slurred spellings.