Now I know the world is collapsing around us, hyperinflation is being caused by a number of preventable (and some unpreventable) sources, social degradation is at an all-time high, major civic movements have joined up to declare grooming a good thing, and actual child molesters and rapists are being protected by police from mean words online...
But have you heard that in a country a million miles away whose overall social mores are considered quite good they've been making purely fictional art you don't like, for multiple decades now without impact on their social well-being?
One concern is that in countries that ban it such as the commonwealth nations is that if you are arrested then you will be forced to challenge said ban in court to avoid a defamatory wrongful conviction, and that is likely allot more expensive than politically charged court cases as you will have to find a good lawyer who will bring in experts rather than demand you take a plea deal.
As a Canadian citizen I am concerned I may not be able to find a lawyer who will actually try to help me, meaning that I will be forced to represent myself in court as the public defender will simply demand I take a plea deal, and there is a high probability out of control arguments will break out because the prosecutor will slander me as a pedo while I attempt to explain with no real legal studying that lolisho should not be considered child porn. As a result I would likely end up getting the maximum sentence for the false CP charges and will struggle to force the prison staff to put me in protective custody as I would be unfit for BOTH general pop. and the sex offender unit as my false charges are controversial and I am not a real sex offender.
Transphobia is not free expression,
Racism is not free expression,
Homophobia is not free expression,
Resisting the globohomo hedgemonic order in any way is not free expression....
In order to properly defend free expression, you must defend things well outside what you personally wish to express.
Agreed. I'd happily argue with the creators that they should tone it down and some series should be marked as at least higher age restricted. But forcing it not only violates all sorts of principles I believe in, it also is the quickest way to make sure all the other stuff gets banned too.
People love to act like you can just "ban loli" (without being able to define it in any way that wouldn't be hilariously abusable legally), and then stop right there. The same vector won't be used to ban literally everything censor happy people like at all.
They should read the horror story that was the Supreme Court's own battles against it in the late 90s and into the 2000s, which did end with them saying it was in fact protected speech until Dubya passed a new side law on it to subvert that decision.
I get the feeling all this bleating about loli is just a way to ban anime in general. It seems to be going along the lines of "all loli = cp and must be banned" with the next step being "all anime = loli". I got this idea when I noticed a bunch of these midwits referring to various anime as loli, even though it clearly wasn't. If the plan isn't to ban, then at the very least they intend to get them to censor themselves in fear of a ban.
It's pretty clear they hate anime because it refuses to toe the party line. The fact is that western media has helped kill itself by pushing the message. Which is also why anime is taking off so well now and they hate anime because of that too.
I recently heard someone say that 90% of anime takes place in high school, and adults who like watching high-schoolers are creeps who should be expelled from society.
Genuinely curious: With all the people who have gotten arrested for grooming/etc, have they been caught with loli stuff, or has it come to light that they've used loli stuff to assist in grooming the kid or whatever? It's something that really does come to mind, as when this is all over, if society does go back to normal, I think that loli/shota content is gonna end up having something happen to it, if only because normies (normies in the future anyway) would end up going "why are these weird Japanese comics/cartoons depicting the shit we arrested thousands for"?
Pornography is about as effective for grooming as sex guides containing diagrams.
There is also a growing unanswered demand to supress sexual predators in fetish communities, with said predators being a major longstanding issue. Lolisho, feral porn, and rape pornography have become notorious for attracting sexual predators, with the only free speech solution being to aggressively suppress these people whenever they pop up in communities and to bring back mental institutions to stop these people before they rape someone/something.
The only people I see get bent out of shape over animated minors are mouth-breathing incel pedophiles, so I can't say I have much cause to fight back against this decision.
For those who live under a rock, or joined after Gamergate, this is a picture of the woman that the mainstream media went on record as saying is pedobait and must be censored:
It's hopeless to argue with a bunch of these mouth breathing retards about this. They're either closeted pedophiles or they're self righteous morons who think free speech should include pedophilia depictions
OP has insisted that if we ban loli there will he more child sex trafficking because the government somehow wouldn't be able to enforce both laws simultaneously even though the government manages to enforce thousands of laws simultaneously every fucking day.
This might actually be the most retarded thing I've read all fucking day. This is like claiming that violent video games directly led to the drop in murder because the rise of FPS games occurred around the same time.
The crime dropped across the board around that time and further access to porn isn't the fucking cause you pedophilic buffoon. In fact, pornographic depictions of minors continue to be illegal and trafficking rates haven't exactly risen.
Jerking it to cartoon minors must addle ones brain.
I'm not justifying or condemning anything, just making an educated assumption based on history, but I understand exactly why people are going to dislike the content regardless.
Lolis are an abomination that is incompatible with civilized society.
The prevalence of lolis in Japanese media is purely to bait pedophiles into buying their products. Everyone outside of japanese culture sees this for what it is, and it does extreme damage to the legitimacy and acceptance of anime as a whole.
The whole anime industry would be better off if lolis were outright banned. Absolutely 0 depictions of little girls. Japan can't be trusted with them.
but freedom of speech
society as a whole defines cultural norms, and no cultural norm is stronger than that which regards the sexualization of little pre-teen girls as a form of obscenity.
Anime can be very good. The only reason people shit on it so much is because of shit like lolis and other similar fetish-baiting practices, none of which are remotely as bad as lolis and are far easier to avoid.
The problem with lolis is that they gets shoved into EVERYTHING.
Anime can be very good. The only reason people shit on it so much is because of shit like lolis and other similar fetish-baiting practices...
Eh, they hate anime because it's not conforming to the new woke Western paradigm. Lolis and the rest are an excuse. They hate anime because of so many things, like men and women being portrayed as different, trannies being portrayed as weirdos (which is not even to say bad, just weird...Japan is pretty relaxed on the whole thing, but recognizes that it's abnormal), the heroic journey still being a thing, self improvement, etc. Anime, in its present form at least, tends to be inherently anti-woke. That's why they hate it.
The problem with lolis is that they gets shoved into EVERYTHING.
On that we agree. To be clear, not calling for censorship, but I wish they'd stop jamming the loli archetype into every damn anime. Fuck off with that shit already.
loli isnt real and it was around for decades and its only recently that people started crying about it and wanting to push censorship on another country , on the other side of the world.
Unfortunately there can be good intellectual property that is ruined by the inclusion of lolis. The japanese can't help themselves, it's a business practice to bait pedos to make sales targets.
I'm just guessing here, but I think actual pedophiles are an extreme minority, even in the loli-enjoying crowd. I'd hazard it's mostly stunted, age-confused people, but not necessarily people sexually attracted to children. Overlap, sure. But I just don't think there are enough pedophiles to be an important demographic. I think Japan just has some real cultural issues where some people have trouble growing up.
That said, like I said in my other response to you, I do agree that they should stop shoving lolis into everything, and you're right that it is frustrating when they pop up when they didn't need to.
The anime industry in Japan is built around getting superfans to whale. Anime sells at VERY high prices, and the studios are usually focused (outside of hit titles) on just making a few thousand sales to break even.
This is why they tend to hit fetish tropes hard. They aren't really focused on mass market appeal.
You would have a point if there was actually a causal relationship between loli art and real-life child sex abuse. But to argue that there is such a relationship is no different than claiming violent video games cause mass shootings.
“This equivalency is inconvenient to my moral fagging, so I’ll just arbitrarily dismiss it without any valid counterargument.”
Show me evidence of a causal relationship and we’ll talk. I see way more evidence supporting the connection between troonery and pedophilia than between loli art and pedophilia.
No you're equivalency is fucking retarded you chomo piece of shit. Pedophilia doesn't require a physical act like murder so you can't even begin to compare some perverted shit jacking off to depictions of children to someone playing a video game that involves killing.
Ah. So you admit that the thought criminals must be purged, commrade.
What of those who have dangerous thoughts that oppose the party? Surely such dangerous people who wish to undermine the state must be dealt with before they act?
/s
You are the worst kind of authoritarian monster. Kindly go fuck yourself.
Yeah but you don't understand. Media DOES influence you to commit crimes (except video games, because I like those) and things I find gross SHOULD be banned (except when wokies say it, because I like that stuff).
Jerking it to lolis does make you more likely to commit sexual crimes. Indulging in their degenerate fetishes is the highest indicator that a sex offender is going to repeat their crimes. Just liking sexual depictions of children is more than enough to qualify someone as a pedophile in the first place. Denying this is like watching gay porn and claiming you're straight
Now if we're talking about actual loli style (and not the artwork you thought looked like 12yo girls in the other article) then I agree. I hate it too, but the examples of censorship given in this article are ridiculous. These days people are getting banned from game tournaments for all kinds of bullshit reasons.
Nobody here opposing loli is talking about the shit in the article. It's pretty damned clear that is not what's being said and people mean depictions that are clearly supposed to be little kids
Loli art has always been a workaround to age of consent & pedophilia laws. You know it, know it, and it’s creators sure as hell know it. How it’s been tolerated this long is a miracle in and of itself.
Three big flaws with this argument. (1) The characters aren’t real; (2) they are not drawn in realistic proportions which inherently kills any sense of realism; and (3) the way lolis tend to act are more adult-like than child-like which again kills any sense of realism.
This is the exact opposite of, for instance, Cuties where real children did sexually explicit dancing in front of adults. (Which brings up a 4th point: lolis are depicted by adult voice actresses).
This is an interesting discussion, because I'm somewhere in the middle, so I'm playing both sides in the argument, which is fun.
(3) the way lolis tend to act are more adult-like than child-like which again kills any sense of realism.
This is a mixed bag, in my opinion. Having children-looking characters act adult (often including sexualization) does send some weird messages. Entertainment doesn't cause specific actions, but it certainly attracts specific people. I think the age-blending that goes on in anime does partly explain why some of the fanatical weebs end up being perverts and weirdos, often with sexual confusion. I think some of anime's oddities do attract some people who have some degenerate and downright immoral tastes.
Does that mean anime should be censored? Absolutely not. Does that mean X causes Y? Nope. But to act like there's no connection at all between something like the portrayal of lolis and the tastes of degenerates is not something I'd agree with either.
Are all loli-enjoyers perverts? Nah. Are many? Yup.
Often lolis are injected into shows where most of the cast is portrayed as older, though. Sure, often not much older, but there is still a massive gap in the depiction of age, and I think that does draw in some rather...confused individuals.
Honestly, a show with all lolis would be more understandable than when they shove one character of the loli archtype in with a bunch of people that are depicted as older.
And, just to be clear, although I am not a fan of lolis, I am pro-loli-existence, pro free speech, and anti censorship.
Now I know the world is collapsing around us, hyperinflation is being caused by a number of preventable (and some unpreventable) sources, social degradation is at an all-time high, major civic movements have joined up to declare grooming a good thing, and actual child molesters and rapists are being protected by police from mean words online...
But have you heard that in a country a million miles away whose overall social mores are considered quite good they've been making purely fictional art you don't like, for multiple decades now without impact on their social well-being?
One concern is that in countries that ban it such as the commonwealth nations is that if you are arrested then you will be forced to challenge said ban in court to avoid a defamatory wrongful conviction, and that is likely allot more expensive than politically charged court cases as you will have to find a good lawyer who will bring in experts rather than demand you take a plea deal.
As a Canadian citizen I am concerned I may not be able to find a lawyer who will actually try to help me, meaning that I will be forced to represent myself in court as the public defender will simply demand I take a plea deal, and there is a high probability out of control arguments will break out because the prosecutor will slander me as a pedo while I attempt to explain with no real legal studying that lolisho should not be considered child porn. As a result I would likely end up getting the maximum sentence for the false CP charges and will struggle to force the prison staff to put me in protective custody as I would be unfit for BOTH general pop. and the sex offender unit as my false charges are controversial and I am not a real sex offender.
#FreeLoli
As someone who really dislikes almost all of the loli nonsense, I dislike retarded censorship more.
Loli has always been a useful filter to find out who really supports free expression and who doesn't.
It brings out all the behaviors that remind me why I hated the authoritarian right in my youth.
Pedophilia is not free expression. Pervert.
Transphobia is not free expression, Racism is not free expression, Homophobia is not free expression, Resisting the globohomo hedgemonic order in any way is not free expression....
In order to properly defend free expression, you must defend things well outside what you personally wish to express.
Fuck off SJW.
If Loli is pedophilia then Mortal Kombat is murder. Think again.
Are you really conflating a sexual fetish which is internal to murder which is external
Both are fiction. How is imaginary murder somehow external?
Are you really conflating the molestation of children which is external to the desire to kill people which is internal?
The loli debate will always be the best barometer of "I believe in free speech...but" for anyone you engage with. As shown by this very page.
Yeah, it's ok not to like it just as long you do not think anyone who does is a pedo and/or believe it should be banned.
Agreed. I'd happily argue with the creators that they should tone it down and some series should be marked as at least higher age restricted. But forcing it not only violates all sorts of principles I believe in, it also is the quickest way to make sure all the other stuff gets banned too.
People love to act like you can just "ban loli" (without being able to define it in any way that wouldn't be hilariously abusable legally), and then stop right there. The same vector won't be used to ban literally everything censor happy people like at all.
They should read the horror story that was the Supreme Court's own battles against it in the late 90s and into the 2000s, which did end with them saying it was in fact protected speech until Dubya passed a new side law on it to subvert that decision.
Lol bruh you're a pedophile if you enjoy loli. Gonna start taking kids to drag shows next?
To me it’s always a great barometer of “I’m a good/ moral person...but”.
Yours is the dumbest hill to die on. Pedos.
Damn, you make distinguishing you from the wokies harder and harder.
Yes numbnuts if you defend pedophilia you're a pedophile and should be dropped into the sea
Didn't defend any pedos. Defended the idea of not banning media.
I get the feeling all this bleating about loli is just a way to ban anime in general. It seems to be going along the lines of "all loli = cp and must be banned" with the next step being "all anime = loli". I got this idea when I noticed a bunch of these midwits referring to various anime as loli, even though it clearly wasn't. If the plan isn't to ban, then at the very least they intend to get them to censor themselves in fear of a ban.
It's pretty clear they hate anime because it refuses to toe the party line. The fact is that western media has helped kill itself by pushing the message. Which is also why anime is taking off so well now and they hate anime because of that too.
I recently heard someone say that 90% of anime takes place in high school, and adults who like watching high-schoolers are creeps who should be expelled from society.
90%.
What a loser.
Drawings do not have human rights.
Drawing is a human right.
Act, not the product.
Genuinely curious: With all the people who have gotten arrested for grooming/etc, have they been caught with loli stuff, or has it come to light that they've used loli stuff to assist in grooming the kid or whatever? It's something that really does come to mind, as when this is all over, if society does go back to normal, I think that loli/shota content is gonna end up having something happen to it, if only because normies (normies in the future anyway) would end up going "why are these weird Japanese comics/cartoons depicting the shit we arrested thousands for"?
Pornography is about as effective for grooming as sex guides containing diagrams.
There is also a growing unanswered demand to supress sexual predators in fetish communities, with said predators being a major longstanding issue. Lolisho, feral porn, and rape pornography have become notorious for attracting sexual predators, with the only free speech solution being to aggressively suppress these people whenever they pop up in communities and to bring back mental institutions to stop these people before they rape someone/something.
The only people I see get bent out of shape over animated minors are mouth-breathing incel pedophiles, so I can't say I have much cause to fight back against this decision.
Not helpful when journos like Schreier think characters like Dragon's Crown sorceress is a "lolicon fantasy"
For those who live under a rock, or joined after Gamergate, this is a picture of the woman that the mainstream media went on record as saying is pedobait and must be censored:
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragons-crown/images/f/f5/DC_-_Sorceress.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20190122045847
Except nobody serious actually agreed with that artard. We can easily differentiate loli from grown adults, it's not difficult.
It's hopeless to argue with a bunch of these mouth breathing retards about this. They're either closeted pedophiles or they're self righteous morons who think free speech should include pedophilia depictions
OP has insisted that if we ban loli there will he more child sex trafficking because the government somehow wouldn't be able to enforce both laws simultaneously even though the government manages to enforce thousands of laws simultaneously every fucking day.
He’s referencing the fact that after the Supreme Court declared porn free speech, the frequency of rape dropped like a rock.
This might actually be the most retarded thing I've read all fucking day. This is like claiming that violent video games directly led to the drop in murder because the rise of FPS games occurred around the same time.
The crime dropped across the board around that time and further access to porn isn't the fucking cause you pedophilic buffoon. In fact, pornographic depictions of minors continue to be illegal and trafficking rates haven't exactly risen.
Jerking it to cartoon minors must addle ones brain.
I'm not justifying or condemning anything, just making an educated assumption based on history, but I understand exactly why people are going to dislike the content regardless.
Lolis are an abomination that is incompatible with civilized society.
The prevalence of lolis in Japanese media is purely to bait pedophiles into buying their products. Everyone outside of japanese culture sees this for what it is, and it does extreme damage to the legitimacy and acceptance of anime as a whole.
The whole anime industry would be better off if lolis were outright banned. Absolutely 0 depictions of little girls. Japan can't be trusted with them.
society as a whole defines cultural norms, and no cultural norm is stronger than that which regards the sexualization of little pre-teen girls as a form of obscenity.
As if that was a good thing, normie filter everything
Anime can be very good. The only reason people shit on it so much is because of shit like lolis and other similar fetish-baiting practices, none of which are remotely as bad as lolis and are far easier to avoid.
The problem with lolis is that they gets shoved into EVERYTHING.
Eh, they hate anime because it's not conforming to the new woke Western paradigm. Lolis and the rest are an excuse. They hate anime because of so many things, like men and women being portrayed as different, trannies being portrayed as weirdos (which is not even to say bad, just weird...Japan is pretty relaxed on the whole thing, but recognizes that it's abnormal), the heroic journey still being a thing, self improvement, etc. Anime, in its present form at least, tends to be inherently anti-woke. That's why they hate it.
On that we agree. To be clear, not calling for censorship, but I wish they'd stop jamming the loli archetype into every damn anime. Fuck off with that shit already.
"Just don't rape kids if you don't like pedophilia"
"Just don't abort kids if you don't like child murder"
"Just don't kill people if you don't like murder"
🤡🤡🤡
loli isnt real and it was around for decades and its only recently that people started crying about it and wanting to push censorship on another country , on the other side of the world.
Your desire to molest kids and your act of jerking off to depictions of them certainly are
Its funny considering how many anti loli people get exposed for their actual crimes, id say it would be the opposite .
Unfortunately there can be good intellectual property that is ruined by the inclusion of lolis. The japanese can't help themselves, it's a business practice to bait pedos to make sales targets.
I'm just guessing here, but I think actual pedophiles are an extreme minority, even in the loli-enjoying crowd. I'd hazard it's mostly stunted, age-confused people, but not necessarily people sexually attracted to children. Overlap, sure. But I just don't think there are enough pedophiles to be an important demographic. I think Japan just has some real cultural issues where some people have trouble growing up.
That said, like I said in my other response to you, I do agree that they should stop shoving lolis into everything, and you're right that it is frustrating when they pop up when they didn't need to.
The anime industry in Japan is built around getting superfans to whale. Anime sells at VERY high prices, and the studios are usually focused (outside of hit titles) on just making a few thousand sales to break even.
This is why they tend to hit fetish tropes hard. They aren't really focused on mass market appeal.
Dont you think its funny how a country that has the biggest proliferation of loli has the least issue with pedophilia? Funny isn't it?
Drawings are not little pre-teen girls. Same way as rendered 3d models of humans are not real humans in GTA or Mortal Kombat.
Think again.
If you get off to drawings if little kids then you're a pedo
Drawings and little kids are two different things.
God bless them for it, I HATE the loli style crap. May it burn forever, that crap has to go.
'Free speech for me but not for thee'
You're no better than a shitlib.
Fucking pedos. Just admit you want to have sex with children.
Actually I'm the opposite, I want MASSIVE MOMMY MILKERS on THICK, FERTILE WOMEN with HAIRY, SWEATY ARMPITS.
I simply have principles about free speech. You don't.
Whoa, you lost me. But to each their own, more power to you.
When the women are natural, they make more babies.
You know this to be true.
Pedos gotta pedo I guess.
You would have a point if there was actually a causal relationship between loli art and real-life child sex abuse. But to argue that there is such a relationship is no different than claiming violent video games cause mass shootings.
You would have a point if those two items were even remotely the same.
“This equivalency is inconvenient to my moral fagging, so I’ll just arbitrarily dismiss it without any valid counterargument.”
Show me evidence of a causal relationship and we’ll talk. I see way more evidence supporting the connection between troonery and pedophilia than between loli art and pedophilia.
No you're equivalency is fucking retarded you chomo piece of shit. Pedophilia doesn't require a physical act like murder so you can't even begin to compare some perverted shit jacking off to depictions of children to someone playing a video game that involves killing.
Ah. So you admit that the thought criminals must be purged, commrade.
What of those who have dangerous thoughts that oppose the party? Surely such dangerous people who wish to undermine the state must be dealt with before they act?
/s
You are the worst kind of authoritarian monster. Kindly go fuck yourself.
Fuck murderers. Just admit you want to kill people while playing Mortal Kombat.
This is your stupid argument.
I see you don’t know what a false analogy is.
There's nothing false about my analogy. This is fiction and this is fiction.
You're clearly a chomo. I bet you watch gay porn and claim it doesn't make you gay
How about less ad hominem and actually supporting your argument?
Found the pedo.
No, just someone who understands the difference between real children and cartoon characters.
Yeah but you don't understand. Media DOES influence you to commit crimes (except video games, because I like those) and things I find gross SHOULD be banned (except when wokies say it, because I like that stuff).
Don't you see the perfect logic here?
Jerking it to lolis does make you more likely to commit sexual crimes. Indulging in their degenerate fetishes is the highest indicator that a sex offender is going to repeat their crimes. Just liking sexual depictions of children is more than enough to qualify someone as a pedophile in the first place. Denying this is like watching gay porn and claiming you're straight
Japanese crime statistics beg to differ.
Now if we're talking about actual loli style (and not the artwork you thought looked like 12yo girls in the other article) then I agree. I hate it too, but the examples of censorship given in this article are ridiculous. These days people are getting banned from game tournaments for all kinds of bullshit reasons.
Nobody here opposing loli is talking about the shit in the article. It's pretty damned clear that is not what's being said and people mean depictions that are clearly supposed to be little kids
Loli art has always been a workaround to age of consent & pedophilia laws. You know it, know it, and it’s creators sure as hell know it. How it’s been tolerated this long is a miracle in and of itself.
Three big flaws with this argument. (1) The characters aren’t real; (2) they are not drawn in realistic proportions which inherently kills any sense of realism; and (3) the way lolis tend to act are more adult-like than child-like which again kills any sense of realism.
This is the exact opposite of, for instance, Cuties where real children did sexually explicit dancing in front of adults. (Which brings up a 4th point: lolis are depicted by adult voice actresses).
This is an interesting discussion, because I'm somewhere in the middle, so I'm playing both sides in the argument, which is fun.
This is a mixed bag, in my opinion. Having children-looking characters act adult (often including sexualization) does send some weird messages. Entertainment doesn't cause specific actions, but it certainly attracts specific people. I think the age-blending that goes on in anime does partly explain why some of the fanatical weebs end up being perverts and weirdos, often with sexual confusion. I think some of anime's oddities do attract some people who have some degenerate and downright immoral tastes.
Does that mean anime should be censored? Absolutely not. Does that mean X causes Y? Nope. But to act like there's no connection at all between something like the portrayal of lolis and the tastes of degenerates is not something I'd agree with either.
Are all loli-enjoyers perverts? Nah. Are many? Yup.
Or, you know. Media aimed primarily at kids aged 11-16 features characters who look like they're 11-16.
Often lolis are injected into shows where most of the cast is portrayed as older, though. Sure, often not much older, but there is still a massive gap in the depiction of age, and I think that does draw in some rather...confused individuals.
Honestly, a show with all lolis would be more understandable than when they shove one character of the loli archtype in with a bunch of people that are depicted as older.
And, just to be clear, although I am not a fan of lolis, I am pro-loli-existence, pro free speech, and anti censorship.
Its the same institution.