Look, I try not to care, too much, about what goes on in other countries. I try not to think about all the Afghans that will die, now; all the 12-year-olds who will be married off; the fall of an entire country; the fact that terrorists will have a breeding ground again; or the total waste of money and life that this all represents...
But it's kind of hard to just "ignore" what is going on. Your country has just capitulated, betrayed its allies and left complete destruction in its wake, for what, FOR WHAT?
And why, because a couple of old men (first Trump, and now dipshit Biden) decided it was politically expedient to do so...
I just... It's disgusting, to be frank. And you know what's significant? I suspect this represents the end of American "soft power", across much of the world. Because the world, including America's allies, will now see what a joke "that country's" military is. What lies America tells itself, and its allies. How "you" can't be relied upon. How utterly, utterly pathetic this whole debacle is. And how "your" president is a useless, lying, untrustworthy, duplicitous, idiotic fuck.
Look, I never particularly LIKED Trump, but I fail to understand how ANYONE can look at the fall of Kabul this week, look at the WORST US foreign policy failure in more than 40 years, and not see this as worse than anything Trump ever directly did, perhaps even including fucking Yemen...
I just... Fuck this. It is a fucking disgrace, and there is no room to make light of it. Biden and Psaki, and everyone else involved, deserves to rot in hell for this. Blood is on their hands, and no one, American, Afghan, Chinese or otherwise, should ever forget or forgive that.
Well, I wouldnt fault really them not liking USA much, or rest of western world ...if you remember that USA essentially invaded them only about decade after USSR had collapsed with their invaded government ruling there, and USSR had invaded them about 80 years after British government evaporated from there ...eg, Afghanistan had about less than decade of sovereignty between two latter invasion forces
Out of all the majority Muslim countries, Afghanistan are the worst with their views. Most people think people should be executed for leaving Islam for example.
I have little compassion for that reason.
That belief is widespread and uncontroversial. It only appears controversial among unserious housebroken western Muslims.
Changing a religion isn't exactly the same as leaving one. And in any case, why are other Muslim countries (especially White ones) so much less backward?
Regardless, there's a lot more dubious views where that came from: https://i.imgur.com/rE1ydqb.png
As for why some countries are much less extreme I'd guess it's some combination of resistance to Salafism in former soviet countries and resistance to Salafism in majority Shia countries. Salafism is nothing more than actually properly teaching Islam. Because the Quran is basically unreadable and hadith are extensive it is possible to be a chill Muslim purely out of ignorance.
Thanks.
Heh, a lot of them though we were the Russians back for revenge. Heck, some of them even though we were space aliens.
I don't know if this statement is accurate or not, but it seems authentic. At the very least we share a common enemy for now.
You know, the American military had 20 years to prepare for their eventual withdrawal from Afghanistan.
20 years and nobody once tested if the Afghan army would stand.
So it's not just Trump and Biden, it's 20 years of US presidents, Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden.
and major fault comes with Obama, for training and equipping "terrorists" +ofc drone bombing civilian places (when it comes to middle-east, highlight of Obama shall always be bombing shit out of civilian hospital)
When Trump said to withdraw from the Middle East, I already knew it meant this would happen. Despite that, I DO SUPPORT the withdrawal with the implicit understanding it meant bloodshed will happen in 3rd world shitholes, a small cost for bringing Americans home. This whole liberating the middle east from dictatorship nonsense has been bullshit from the start, it is a forced change, it is unnatural and goes against the cultural norms evolved in the region.
Do you think everybody there will still continue on as if nothing happened? What part no bases in the middle east do you not understand? What part of no more NATO support do you not get? There is no magic Kumbayah decision after forcing changes and then suddenly leaving.
All these whining coming from people who are against US foreign intervention looks like a bunch of NPCs upset that no foreign intervention meant exactly that, foreigners can do as they please in their own territory, including all those things that are supposedly evil and shouldn't be done.
The whining from people who support US foreign intervention is at least understandable. The institutional push back against Trump to withdraw from the middle east had the military hiding units instead of actually withdrawing and starting bombing runs again in early 2021.
What I am uncertain of is the whole media blitz campaign now on Afghanistan, which is likely a distraction for how terrible the US domestic policy is right now, and that trillion dollar bill that congress is trying to pass. It is also possible this is a test to gauge the public interest in a new middle eastern adventure, repackaged and resold as a humanitarian interest story, slightly different than the last, or to excuse the ramping up of mass immigration into the west, while screaming into the sky about covid restrictions on the locals.
Russia will never be a world power on that level again. China is a year out from civil war if their shit continues (quintannual politburo meeting).
This won't end the American dominance, but does mean the beginning of something dark if things don't change real fucking soon.
China has been a year out from civil war for 4000 years. That is just their natural state. While it makes for a shitty place to live it keeps their knives sharp against any posdible external threats.
You know, I think it may well be the fall of the US as a superpower, as you say...
To see the media, and people here, defending this as "not our problem", or "lalala I don't care" - that's not the response of a mature, functioning imperial state. That's the response of a state in denial. Media here (Australia) is already reporting on the decline of the American state, and of power, both hard and soft, as a result of this...
I'm just amazed, personally, that it only took less than 20 years after September 11 for America to fall like this. Shit, I've seen the decline myself, but I never would have predicted that.
Then again, any country that elects a clearly not-all-there, incoherent 78-year-old as president is rotten, anyway. So I guess this was predictable as soon as that became clear (yadda yadda electoral fraud, yadda yadda).
I just... I feel for the Afghan people. No matter what some dumb fucks here might say, they didn't deserve this. No one does. And it's all the fault of dumb cunts in Washington...
Perhaps the disconnect is we don't want America to be an imperialist state. This is something in general Americans don't want, and we consistently vote against it. But our politicians consistently do it anyway.
If we're going to be playing sandbox nation-building sims anyways, I'd prefer if we were an unapologetic colonial empire. Maybe then we could rule these shitholes with a harsh but fair fist and engender a grudging respect from the natives. Because clearly winning hearts and minds for the last 20 years did jack shit
Until we have a government that stops making exporting of feminism and degeneracy a national priority we really should keep to ourselves and solve our own problems.
Same. I also think it would be more compassionate than what we do as well, but we don't have the stomach to just be honest about what we're doing.
The problem was recognized in the first president's farewell speech.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210810062041/https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=false&doc=15&page=transcript
Oh look, based President was right.
Islam didn't invent socialism and wokeism either.
It's the West and it's Christians.
Marx wasn't Christian
Jesus christ... Human beings are not "cancer", whatever religion they may ascribe to...
Stop trying to wash your country's hands of blood, for this. It's not the fault of Afghan women and children, or Hazara refugees, or of most of the Afghan population. Are the Afghan people blameless? Of course fucking not. But they do not deserve this, and no pseudo-historical xenophobic bullshit is ever going to justify what is happening, on the ground, on the other side of the world, right now.
If you want to find someone convenient to blame, blame the fucking Soviets. They started this most recent cycle, as raven0ak pointed out... And I know how much "you" Americans like to blame "commies" for the problems that your state-capitalist system is just as guilty of causing, fucking lol...
Afghanistan is simply returning to theocratic Islamic rule. That's what the majority of people who live there want. They didn't want buttsex fetish parades and child drag queen story hours and radical feminist leaders. This "oppression" is their chosen culture. You can't shed tears for the women and girls of Afghanistan and then absolve Islam of the blame for what is happening over there.
At this point I'm leaning toward them being right.
If they want this, then why are they trying to leave the country in droves?
But they'd get those dollars if they left last month or the month before?
I find something funny about how you tell random ass internet people to stop trying to wash their hands of blood, while Afghans are absolved.
Either both are equally responsible or none.
How is "taxation", voluntary, private or capitalist.
A "state-capitalist system" would be closer to National Socialism.
Just like what FDR intended in 1934.
America did just fine after their Vietnam war debacle in 1975.
Not sure about this one.
The US was mortally wounded with kennedy. We are just there to witness the last twitches before the corpse lies still.
I just hope they don't come here. I know I'm gonna be disappointed though. But at least let me hope 😢
The American people don't want to be the world police. It's not voted for, the politicians all play games with us. The political parties have each played both sides of the overseas war argument for decades now and still all go off and do whatever the hell they want. I don't think there's been a war with widespread support among the American public since World War 2.
I'd certainly have chosen a better way to leave than the Harris administration. Perhaps kept the airbase for one, since it was already built and really stupid to abandon. Leave a bit slower and try to strength up whatever local force was built (if any) such that it doesn't totally go to shit right off. But stay in these places for eternity to protect them from their own choices? No thanks.
Sometimes the only way to end a shit situation is for those most affected to stand up and figure out how to take care of it themselves. Yes, that means some of them will give their lives. The ones that are being rescued over the last 20 years, why are they just going about their business with someone else providing the safety? Why haven't they joined up to help put down the threat to their country? They are totally happy having someone else do it all for them.
There wasn't any support, the public was completely against it. But fdr's thoroughly commie infested administration kept pushing for it and he agreed since he was always an authoritarian technocrat pinko.
So he did the whole "I'm not touching you" thing by acting like an asshole to both germany and japan until they fucking had enough.
Allegedly he got advanced warning of pearl harbor and just let it happen because he knew a massacre would bring the US into the war.
Yeah, I should have thought of that as well. I knew they wanted nothing to do with it early on, but it's easy to forget how much politics played with getting Germany and Japan dragging the US into it. Particularly since we're never thought that. Even 25 years ago when I was in school FDR was portrayed in school as a perfect saint.
So I'd have to go all the way back then, as I'm not sure there's ever been support among the American public for a foreign war.
I understand what you are going through emotionally. Please understand that the people of the country have every right to pick what they want. They were given billions of dollars with years upon years of enlistment and recruitment campaigns and constant daily reminders of how brutal and violent taliban are.
Yet time and time again. They sold the equipment they were given. They abandoned their positions and gave the equipment straight to the taliban. The afghan army couldn't even enlist more than 500k people. They didn't want what the western world wanted to give them and Biden breaking withdrawal treaty that Trump made with the taliban probably didn't help matters either
On the one hand, it is a humiliating defeat for America.
On the other hand, one of the nations in the GloboHomo alliance has fallen. I honestly can't feel too bad about that.
I might as well add to this: watching the US "ask" the Taliban to spare their embassy, and telling them off like naughty children, bla bla bla re "international recognition", is just... Embarrassing. Utterly humiliating.
Hell, even the fucking UN thinks it is an embarrassment. How can ANYONE take you seriously, after that?
"We don't negotiate with terrorists". What the fuck happened, America? How the fuck has it come to this, in what, less than 15 years?
You're a joke, USA. An internationally shameful joke. And this blood is on your hands. You cannot wash that off.
A lot of Americans are very stupid. Apparently it wasn't just a joke.
Also watching the Taliban rout the Afghan army using weapons, drones, Hummers and tanks left behind by the US... What the fuck do people think is going to happen with that equipment? Do you honestly believe they won't use it to arm themselves and then strike back internationally? Honestly? That they'll be so busy oppressing their own people that they won't have time to send their fighters out to attack the West?
Bullshit. You know this will have consequences down the line. Bury your heads all you want, but this decision ain't just going to affect Afghanistan, Pakistan and China. It'll come back to bite America and its allies. It's just a question of when and how, now, not if...
Our options are to leave Afghanistan or glass it. The people who live there are backwards retards who will always choose Islamic oppression over liberal democracy.
Of course, America isn't even offering liberal democracy anymore. Now we're trying to enforce gay pride and trans idiocy and Marxism. I'd rather live under the Taliban.
Nah. Taliban routed the ANA using mostly old Kalashnikovs and Toyota technicals. They did loot a ton of modern US gear, but they have no idea how to use or maintain most of it, and it'll be unusable soon.
Taliban also never was interested in anything but ruling Afghanistan. How do you even imagine they'd "send out their fighters to attack the West"? Do you think they're just going to drive those HMMWVs and MRAPs to Paris and start blasting? Afghanistan is in central Asia, they would have to go thousands of miles and pass half a dozen countries either way they went, and they'd have to go through, at the very least, Turkey or Russia, neither of whom are interested in their shit.
Pity. I'd pay them for the lot. Shame seeing all of it going to waste.
Dumb sand people. They'll probably scrap everything for the metal, like the Africans do when we try to reenact Sid Meier's games over there and uplift them.
Seen plenty of accounts of dumb, bleeding heart university boys that give them water processing equipment and the like. They leave and come back only to see the primitives dismantled the equipment hours after they left.
Give a third world primitive some fish, his neighbors will kill him for it; Teach him how to fish, and he'll use the line and rod as utensils to serve up the clay he's been eating.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210728162216/https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/doctors-activists-work-to-stop-clay-eating-in-africa/article656850/
They're still doing it.
Just found this. Some dumb ass in the UK is even selling "edible clay" on Etsy.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210816191538/https://www.etsy.com/listing/710394676/edible-clay-nzu-african-edible-clays
I want off this ride...
Some of you have reasonable points. Some of you just hate Muslims. And/or women. And/or gays. Which I knew already, but... Your views are genuinely... Pretty extreme. And highly upvoted, which is... At least as bad.
I guess that's ok. This is a forum which allows you to spout whatever you want, pretty much. But I'm not going to engage with it. I tap out here.
Enjoy your little circlejerk. I might come back, one day.
Mean time, let me just suggest... That you get offline for a bit. Go out and... Try and live life. Because living in a world of constant online hatred and "othering" of the outgroup isn't overly healthy.
But then, you're not going to listen to me, of course, and I'm sure you have plenty of insults in reserve, there, for me, so... Enjoy shouting into the ether, I guess. If it makes you feel good, I suppose at least it gives you an outlet that won't directly harm anyone...
Yes what about it? Have you even lived with muslims? No? Then fuck off. They hate me too, so its completely mutual, nothing personal.
Did you know people with different views exist beyond what is allowed by your master?
We must censor more to prevent circlejerks.
Boy that's rich, an outsider coming in to other the natives, smugly telling the natives they're wrong.
Frankly, you're just repeating duckspeak now. Quack quack quack but you have no idea what you're even saying, its completely formulaic.
Jesus, Do you want me to bring some chips and dip to that little pity party you’re throwing yourself?
Cry more in your totalitarian shithole that is Australia faggot. We're not gonna come save you
Here you go - their views are generally distorted and Afghans are near the bottom of an already bad group: https://i.imgur.com/rE1ydqb.png