That is the big distinction here. I got no issue with the vaccine existing and being available. In fact it is quite amazing how fast they made it, and in part to Trump.
The problem I have with it, is for one few are being honest about the potential risk factors and two that everyone should get it despite the risk factors for certain age groups of the vaccine outweighing the risk of the actual disease. Instead of reasonable risk assessment it became EVERYONE SUBMIT AND TAKE YOUR SHOT!
Even if Trump said something offhand like "Ok vaccine is available everyone go get your shot!".... judging by the context he isn't saying it the same way the SJWS and Biden are saying it. I think he would fully understand that it isn't for everyone through a risk assessment if you explained it to him and accept that and it what he said [in this speculative thing being said] would be more of a general statement and not to be taken too literally as a universal statement.
...He's a human? People like to joke about "GEOTUS", but... he's a human. He's fallible. He's foolable. Even on T_D back in the day, people would admit such if they thought he made a misinformed decision.
And this would be a misinformed decision. An understandable one, given the sheer amount of misinformation flying around. Too many people have too many profit motives to allow "truth" to get in the way of things, and he's an old man who foolishly believes that people tell him things with the best intentions in mind. Most of his failings, flaws, and foibles have been because he trusted people who were supposedly trustworthy, but wound up being backstabbers and double-crossers. Generals who lied about troop deployments, medicinal experts lying about mitigation measures, dignitaries lying about trade, judges lying about jurisdiction and tallying procedures... All people you'd think would be trustworthy, so he accepted their words blindly.
But what is this "we", my glowie friend? "You" should think for yourself. Well, not you, you're likely an infiltrator from past interactions, but people who act somewhat like you in a more sincere way, should focus on their Self, their own purpose and their own views and their own virtues.
This is helpful, along with the rest of the comments. I’m glad I made the post because it does irritate me he supports it, but I see how/why that could happen. I think his trusting Kushner was his biggest mistake.
What makes you think I’m an infiltrator? I’ve been here since the beginning, and I’ve always been honest and upfront about what I think.
I've seen it a couple of times, off word choices. You use communal words like "us" and "we" in what is normally a very individualistic and often self-antagonistic subforum. Atop this, much of KiA2 may be sympathetic to Trump, but they're not T_D and certainly not a hivemind on it, so beyond the normal unusual feeling of someone you don't really know declaring "we" together, it's on a subject that is not a settled view.
Compounding this factor is your username, Pepe's Covfefe. It can haz dank memes, sure, and as we all know memes only get better with age, but it isn't really KiA. Of course, this is simply explained away with the fact you're primarily a Patriots poster, or originally one like 4 years ago when that name would've been relevent, but it adds onto the "odd one out" aspect.
Putting the three together basically turns it into "How are we doing, fellow kids?". Like, literally so: You're using inclusivity language, implying the viewpoints of the people present, and using aged memes. Toss in some... odd views you've espoused IIRC, and it gives an aire of insincerity. Any given one of them is fine, lots of people have old usernames, lots of people with ESL use odd pronoun choices, and some people do fundamentally misinterpret a forum's "lurk moar" values, but add all them together...
Add onto this that you've had some... "hot takes", let's say... (I don't normally remember "controversial" up/downvoted posts and the names of the people who make them but your dank meme name is somewhat memorable) and it's actually a tactic directly out of psychology textbooks, to use grouping language in order to draw the listener/reader into your group with "us" and "we", then putting forward an additional idea in order to imply to your target that it is logical or reasonable to automatically hold that second view because you're part of a grouped identity.
If you're sincere, it's the equivalent of a person going to a costume party NOT on Halloween dressed as a cop, entering a grocer on the way and yelling "PUH-LEASE" as a speech impediment "please", and then being confused when people believe you to be some sort of officer. Entirely possible, but the misinterpretation is reasonable.
EDIT: All that said, it's fine if you are a letter org too, or even just an outside troll. Have fun, you're welcome here, enjoy your paycheck. There's no rule against you being here even if that's case. I'm definitely not from a letter org, and definitely not from IGN hiding in plain sight through absurdity in specific denial, but you're still welcome as far I know.
I can see how using “we” in this forum could be inappropriate. I feel a kinship with people here and other .win boards, so it’s something I just said without too much though. Regardless, the post did generate meaningful conversation, and it did help me to understand what could be going on with trump and the vaccines.
I still like my username lol. I don’t actually think the relevancy of Pepe will ever go stale like other memes. It’s grown to an archetype at this point.
You are misinterpreting me, but I appreciate the input.
Most of the deaths and severe injuries have been in people too young to be realistic candidates for the vaccine.
We don't actually know that. That's the problem. Older people dying from the vaccine is usually masked under other morbidities, This is what Dr. Malone was trying to get across: how do you know an old person who got a vaccine and died of a blood clot didn't die from a blood clot brought about by the vaccine?
With the health authorities and government covering up all the deaths and not tracking vaccine-related deaths, there's no way to know how many old people are dying from the shots.
If you're old and have a lung condition, they would simply put it down that you may have died from asthma; if you suffered from some other chronic illness and got the vaccine, they would simply put down on your death certificate that the other illness killed you.
With zero data on the actual death rates, especially those older than 65, we literally have no idea what the efficacy is for old people.
But if it's causing such severe and adverse effects in young people, the bigger question is: why wouldn't it cause similar effects once the spike protein gets into the bloodstream of an older person with a comorbidity?
I think that’s why looking and comparing the no comorbidity COVID deaths vs no comorbidity deaths of this that got the Experimental gene therapy stab in ages under 30.
Still sourcing the data, but it seems the stab is killing ALOT more in that age range. And, to me, that’s really telling.
The notion that Trump was some sort of model conservative whatever.. not even sure where the hell that came from.
Trump is friend of the conservative because he tries to appeal to the everyman and doesn't throw them under the bus to virtue signal. He wants to be everybody's president, not just a narrow majority coalition that excludes whoever the media calls fringe radicals. He listens to the "deplorables" and acknowledges their concerns, even if he's not going to do everything they want.
It might be misplaced affection after the right had been rejected by all other politicians for so long. (like falling for the first person who smiles at you after a bad relationship) Leftists at least had Democrats throwing them identity politics bones and free gibs. Nobody appealed to conservatives, only "Conservative Inc." Republicans catered to their big business donors and spoke general platitudes of Americana to pull on the heartstrings of patriots, while acting no different than Democrats when they had power. (reserving actual appeals to the base for when they were out of power and could exploit ideology for fundraising)
Trump's not a molecular biologist. Deciding which part of the virus is safe to use as a vaccine is the kind of thing that he would reasonably expect to be able to delegate to people who have the skillset to find out.
Trump's tax cuts did fuel an economy that, in 2019, saw a gain in real income and wealth for the poorest quintile while the richest quintile remained stagnant. That hasn't happened since pre-civil rights era. Trump isn't a Great Man in hindsight, but he is the best governance the US has had in a long time.
Trump was always economy choice, and that was fine until chinaflu in 2020; Trump tried do some smart options aka limit travel from infected countries (left booed that), throw in temporal lockdown (left resisted implement hard as could, then they resisted even harder lifting it out after 3 months was up); Trump also tried suggest available cures to covid, and media censored that
He's not pushing the vax. He's taking credit for getting them finished earlier than anyone thought possible. You have to view things through the lens of a business person (or a man, in general) who viewed the pandemic as a problem to be solved.
Trump approached it from any angle that he saw as a potential solution, which is why he hyped hydroxychloroquine the minute it was determined to be a potential benefit. Same with ivermectin, the ultraviolet light treatment, and the same with the vaccines. The vaccines are of course the only one that the media would allow. It's the same reason he pushed for shutting down travel immediately. He went for any and every potential solution possible.
He views the speed at which they were created as an achievement that he can take credit for, nothing more. He's obviously not a doctor, so he doesn't know the details behind the vaccines.
He wanted it to be ready quickly so that people could choose to use it if they want, and once it was available we would have no reason to continue holding up life for those who opt to simply go on living.
There were no illusions that the vaccine would be completely safe. Any crash deployment of an experimental product is going to have problems.
But the desire to have SOMETHING available was understandable and I don't think anyone faults Trump for that much.
The optics of it, he was in the eleventh hour of an election, and the entire cathedral was pushing the virus as his fault. So it was just about everything he could do to counter-signal their narrative. Remember doing nothing, or pointing out their hysteria is wrong doesn't counter it, lies still count in a popularity contest.
Trump was a hack and cared about ending the pandemic. He pushed everything and anything that had a possibility of ending it, including the vax, HCQ, Ivermectin, vitamin D, etc etc.
The popular line is that Trump shorted a long-term plan of global leftist domination. Meh. BUT he stepped aside. I think he was trying to gather HIS OWN glorious legacy, and luckstepped into just that short...
My short answer: we don't reconcile this. Trump just didn't know it was a faux(i) vaccine. He continues to hawk it. GEOTUS (in spite of the name) is a patriot, not a god.
As far as I know Trump's whole thing there was about giving you the option. Which, provided the data to hand is as accurate as it reasonably can be, is difficult to fault because that then means you, the citizen, are the one taking responsibility.
If he hadn't pushed through the vaccines development with his emergency powers, the government would've continued the lockdown for years.
However, as far as I know he has not been pushing people to actually take the vaccine and force them to lockdown otherwise, he has just been promoting it's speed of development.
He pushed for them to be made as fast as possible. He didn't push ending society until everyone took them.
Plus he was surrounded by people that were like Fauci, which were most likely feeding him BS info
In fact you might say that the push to get them rushed out as fast as possible was because he knew that forever lockdowns was the plan. Just a guess.
That is the big distinction here. I got no issue with the vaccine existing and being available. In fact it is quite amazing how fast they made it, and in part to Trump.
The problem I have with it, is for one few are being honest about the potential risk factors and two that everyone should get it despite the risk factors for certain age groups of the vaccine outweighing the risk of the actual disease. Instead of reasonable risk assessment it became EVERYONE SUBMIT AND TAKE YOUR SHOT!
Even if Trump said something offhand like "Ok vaccine is available everyone go get your shot!".... judging by the context he isn't saying it the same way the SJWS and Biden are saying it. I think he would fully understand that it isn't for everyone through a risk assessment if you explained it to him and accept that and it what he said [in this speculative thing being said] would be more of a general statement and not to be taken too literally as a universal statement.
because we aren't dirty commies who require unwavering loyalty to the arbitrary edicts of the day or its expulsion from the club
we can like some things he does and not like other things he does and still feel that supporting him is, overall, within our best interests
...He's a human? People like to joke about "GEOTUS", but... he's a human. He's fallible. He's foolable. Even on T_D back in the day, people would admit such if they thought he made a misinformed decision.
And this would be a misinformed decision. An understandable one, given the sheer amount of misinformation flying around. Too many people have too many profit motives to allow "truth" to get in the way of things, and he's an old man who foolishly believes that people tell him things with the best intentions in mind. Most of his failings, flaws, and foibles have been because he trusted people who were supposedly trustworthy, but wound up being backstabbers and double-crossers. Generals who lied about troop deployments, medicinal experts lying about mitigation measures, dignitaries lying about trade, judges lying about jurisdiction and tallying procedures... All people you'd think would be trustworthy, so he accepted their words blindly.
But what is this "we", my glowie friend? "You" should think for yourself. Well, not you, you're likely an infiltrator from past interactions, but people who act somewhat like you in a more sincere way, should focus on their Self, their own purpose and their own views and their own virtues.
This is helpful, along with the rest of the comments. I’m glad I made the post because it does irritate me he supports it, but I see how/why that could happen. I think his trusting Kushner was his biggest mistake.
What makes you think I’m an infiltrator? I’ve been here since the beginning, and I’ve always been honest and upfront about what I think.
I've seen it a couple of times, off word choices. You use communal words like "us" and "we" in what is normally a very individualistic and often self-antagonistic subforum. Atop this, much of KiA2 may be sympathetic to Trump, but they're not T_D and certainly not a hivemind on it, so beyond the normal unusual feeling of someone you don't really know declaring "we" together, it's on a subject that is not a settled view.
Compounding this factor is your username, Pepe's Covfefe. It can haz dank memes, sure, and as we all know memes only get better with age, but it isn't really KiA. Of course, this is simply explained away with the fact you're primarily a Patriots poster, or originally one like 4 years ago when that name would've been relevent, but it adds onto the "odd one out" aspect.
Putting the three together basically turns it into "How are we doing, fellow kids?". Like, literally so: You're using inclusivity language, implying the viewpoints of the people present, and using aged memes. Toss in some... odd views you've espoused IIRC, and it gives an aire of insincerity. Any given one of them is fine, lots of people have old usernames, lots of people with ESL use odd pronoun choices, and some people do fundamentally misinterpret a forum's "lurk moar" values, but add all them together...
Add onto this that you've had some... "hot takes", let's say... (I don't normally remember "controversial" up/downvoted posts and the names of the people who make them but your dank meme name is somewhat memorable) and it's actually a tactic directly out of psychology textbooks, to use grouping language in order to draw the listener/reader into your group with "us" and "we", then putting forward an additional idea in order to imply to your target that it is logical or reasonable to automatically hold that second view because you're part of a grouped identity.
If you're sincere, it's the equivalent of a person going to a costume party NOT on Halloween dressed as a cop, entering a grocer on the way and yelling "PUH-LEASE" as a speech impediment "please", and then being confused when people believe you to be some sort of officer. Entirely possible, but the misinterpretation is reasonable.
EDIT: All that said, it's fine if you are a letter org too, or even just an outside troll. Have fun, you're welcome here, enjoy your paycheck. There's no rule against you being here even if that's case. I'm definitely not from a letter org, and definitely not from IGN hiding in plain sight through absurdity in specific denial, but you're still welcome as far I know.
I can see how using “we” in this forum could be inappropriate. I feel a kinship with people here and other .win boards, so it’s something I just said without too much though. Regardless, the post did generate meaningful conversation, and it did help me to understand what could be going on with trump and the vaccines.
I still like my username lol. I don’t actually think the relevancy of Pepe will ever go stale like other memes. It’s grown to an archetype at this point.
You are misinterpreting me, but I appreciate the input.
Hey, it's all good either way. Misunderstanding happen, part of life. Have a great day now, yahear?
He only wanted the at risk to take them, who have the best chance of getting a good result.
Most of the deaths and severe injuries have been in people too young to be realistic candidates for the vaccine.
We don't actually know that. That's the problem. Older people dying from the vaccine is usually masked under other morbidities, This is what Dr. Malone was trying to get across: how do you know an old person who got a vaccine and died of a blood clot didn't die from a blood clot brought about by the vaccine?
With the health authorities and government covering up all the deaths and not tracking vaccine-related deaths, there's no way to know how many old people are dying from the shots.
If you're old and have a lung condition, they would simply put it down that you may have died from asthma; if you suffered from some other chronic illness and got the vaccine, they would simply put down on your death certificate that the other illness killed you.
With zero data on the actual death rates, especially those older than 65, we literally have no idea what the efficacy is for old people.
But if it's causing such severe and adverse effects in young people, the bigger question is: why wouldn't it cause similar effects once the spike protein gets into the bloodstream of an older person with a comorbidity?
I think that’s why looking and comparing the no comorbidity COVID deaths vs no comorbidity deaths of this that got the Experimental gene therapy stab in ages under 30.
Still sourcing the data, but it seems the stab is killing ALOT more in that age range. And, to me, that’s really telling.
Are you under the assumption that we believe him to be perfect and infallible?
Trump is friend of the conservative because he tries to appeal to the everyman and doesn't throw them under the bus to virtue signal. He wants to be everybody's president, not just a narrow majority coalition that excludes whoever the media calls fringe radicals. He listens to the "deplorables" and acknowledges their concerns, even if he's not going to do everything they want.
It might be misplaced affection after the right had been rejected by all other politicians for so long. (like falling for the first person who smiles at you after a bad relationship) Leftists at least had Democrats throwing them identity politics bones and free gibs. Nobody appealed to conservatives, only "Conservative Inc." Republicans catered to their big business donors and spoke general platitudes of Americana to pull on the heartstrings of patriots, while acting no different than Democrats when they had power. (reserving actual appeals to the base for when they were out of power and could exploit ideology for fundraising)
Yeah I guess I sort of did at some point. I can see from the comments here how he could be misled etc; this was a helpful discussion to me.
Trump's not a molecular biologist. Deciding which part of the virus is safe to use as a vaccine is the kind of thing that he would reasonably expect to be able to delegate to people who have the skillset to find out.
I got a tax cut and I'm a regular worker.
Trump's tax cuts did fuel an economy that, in 2019, saw a gain in real income and wealth for the poorest quintile while the richest quintile remained stagnant. That hasn't happened since pre-civil rights era. Trump isn't a Great Man in hindsight, but he is the best governance the US has had in a long time.
Trump was always economy choice, and that was fine until chinaflu in 2020; Trump tried do some smart options aka limit travel from infected countries (left booed that), throw in temporal lockdown (left resisted implement hard as could, then they resisted even harder lifting it out after 3 months was up); Trump also tried suggest available cures to covid, and media censored that
People like Fauci and Birx thought we were idiots who would do whatever we were told. In other words, they confused us with Hillary voters.
Easily. He was far from perfect, and I never supported him blindly.
He was also not great on 2a stuff, or getting the government out of the economy.
He's not pushing the vax. He's taking credit for getting them finished earlier than anyone thought possible. You have to view things through the lens of a business person (or a man, in general) who viewed the pandemic as a problem to be solved.
Trump approached it from any angle that he saw as a potential solution, which is why he hyped hydroxychloroquine the minute it was determined to be a potential benefit. Same with ivermectin, the ultraviolet light treatment, and the same with the vaccines. The vaccines are of course the only one that the media would allow. It's the same reason he pushed for shutting down travel immediately. He went for any and every potential solution possible.
He views the speed at which they were created as an achievement that he can take credit for, nothing more. He's obviously not a doctor, so he doesn't know the details behind the vaccines.
He wanted it to be ready quickly so that people could choose to use it if they want, and once it was available we would have no reason to continue holding up life for those who opt to simply go on living.
There were no illusions that the vaccine would be completely safe. Any crash deployment of an experimental product is going to have problems.
But the desire to have SOMETHING available was understandable and I don't think anyone faults Trump for that much.
just don't take the jab.
The optics of it, he was in the eleventh hour of an election, and the entire cathedral was pushing the virus as his fault. So it was just about everything he could do to counter-signal their narrative. Remember doing nothing, or pointing out their hysteria is wrong doesn't counter it, lies still count in a popularity contest.
Yes, democracy is a mistake.
Trump was a hack and cared about ending the pandemic. He pushed everything and anything that had a possibility of ending it, including the vax, HCQ, Ivermectin, vitamin D, etc etc.
The popular line is that Trump shorted a long-term plan of global leftist domination. Meh. BUT he stepped aside. I think he was trying to gather HIS OWN glorious legacy, and luckstepped into just that short...
My short answer: we don't reconcile this. Trump just didn't know it was a faux(i) vaccine. He continues to hawk it. GEOTUS (in spite of the name) is a patriot, not a god.
Makes you wonder what, exactly?
Don’t be daft !
As far as I know Trump's whole thing there was about giving you the option. Which, provided the data to hand is as accurate as it reasonably can be, is difficult to fault because that then means you, the citizen, are the one taking responsibility.
If he hadn't pushed through the vaccines development with his emergency powers, the government would've continued the lockdown for years.
However, as far as I know he has not been pushing people to actually take the vaccine and force them to lockdown otherwise, he has just been promoting it's speed of development.