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131
And they say the slippery slope is a fallacy (media.kotakuinaction2.win)
posted 4 years ago by UnsubtleAardvark 4 years ago by UnsubtleAardvark +131 / -0
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▲ 32 ▼
– Smith1980 32 points 4 years ago +32 / -0

Well it is the New York Times but I remember them laughing at Trump after Charlotteville for asking if they were going to take down statues of Washington and Jefferson

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▲ 37 ▼
– acp_k2win 37 points 4 years ago +37 / -0

The laughing is a tell that the true intentions hide behind.

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▲ 25 ▼
– NoGardE 25 points 4 years ago +25 / -0

This makes Kamala Harris much more easily explained.

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▲ 2 ▼
– SupremeReader 2 points 4 years ago +2 / -0

https://youtube.com/watch?v=vqYJRc0TJkQ

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▲ 4 ▼
– ThrowawyASAP 4 points 4 years ago +4 / -0

Duper's Delight.

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– rabdargab 1 point 4 years ago +1 / -0

Exactly

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– Ahaus667 30 points 4 years ago +30 / -0

Hey, that took a whole 4 years. In progressive time that’s like, forever.

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▲ 17 ▼
– Oppressinator 17 points 4 years ago +17 / -0

A year ago is forever, but also 500 years ago is today.

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▲ 2 ▼
– APDSmith 2 points 4 years ago +2 / -0

In progressive time that’s like, forever.

And yet the harms done by slavery, a practice which conclude in the US 150 years ago, are current, urgent and must be addressed now.

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▲ 22 ▼
– deleted 22 points 4 years ago +22 / -0
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– deleted 15 points 4 years ago +15 / -0
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– NotAGlowy 14 points 4 years ago +14 / -0

No country has ever survived this process of paying academics to “incite racial hatred and genocide” without a mass genocide.

China tried encouraging resentment and victimhood in their students. It ended with the cultural revolution and the deaths of 0.1bn.

Germany in the Early 1930s had the nazi party which wasn’t anywhere near as anti jew as these freaks are anti white.

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▲ 12 ▼
– cartoonericroberts 12 points 4 years ago +12 / -0

The actual article appears to be titled "The Battle for 1776."

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– loubag1997 5 points 4 years ago +5 / -0

The title has changed many times, verify it on web.archive.org

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– cartoonericroberts 1 point 4 years ago +1 / -0

Does the title in the screenshot exist in any of them? I've only found "The Battle for 1776" and "The Troubles of 1776".

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– Gizortnik 7 points 4 years ago +7 / -0

As I said 3 months ago, I will say it again. The Slippery Slope is a logical fallacy, but validity is not the same as truth.


The problem with the Slippery Slope (and the sudden upsurge of criticism of it from the Right) is that an implication is being intentionally changed to be an assertion, and typically the assertions are unprovable. In psychology, when this is done about thinking negatively, it's called "catastrophization".

It is important to understand why you stick to implications, and avoid assertions, which cause catastrophization.

We know why your car starts when you turn the key in the ignition. It is a mechanical series of implications, that lead to a logically valid result, and can be properly reduced.

If you turn the key, then the fuel pump starts and the pistons start moving. If the gas pump starts and there's fuel in the gas tank, then the fuel gets sucked into the gas line. If the gas line is filled with fuel and the piston is moving, then the the fuel will enter into the piston's chamber and it will be able to start a spark. If the spark ignites, it will cause the engine to run. HENCE, when you turn the key, the engine will run.

However, if any one of those things ends up being false in reality, then the implication must fail. Each and every one is individually causal to the other. If you don't have a starter, your car won't start. If you don't have gas, your car won't start. If your fuel pump isn't working, your car won't start. etc, etc.

If we were to truly catalog the entire logical map of why your car can actually start when you turn the key, you would see a vast series of assumptions that have to be made for the chain of implications to work. You have to have an alternator a starter. Every tube has to be connected. You have to have the right fuel. There has to be the right amount of oxygen. Your spark plugs need to be inserted. You have to have the right key. So on and so forth. We don't worry about most of these assumptions, because they're normally true (when was the last time your car didn't have enough oxygen to start?). And if they key doesn't cause the car to run, we then have to check those assumptions because if those assumptions were all true, then the car would have started. Thus, since the conclusion is false, one of our premises must be false (you don't have enough gas).

We know that the process of starting your car is not a Slippery Slope, because each logical event is designed to happen as part of the mechanical process. The implication can be relied upon because it is a known causal series of events leading one from the other, relying on clear assumptions that we assume to be universally true. We have the benefit of having no need to see into the future to deduce that something will be true, because the mechanisms we are relying upon are established, the implications are both sound and clear.

The fallacy occurs when we assert that the results of something that are not established. We're not really implying logical arguments, we are asserting that implications will be true. Catastrophization:

If I go to the bank, I will be shot. If I go to the bank now, I will be disheveled. If I am disheveled in the bank, the security guard will view me as suspicious. If the security guard views me as suspicious, I will nervously put my hands in my pockets. If I nervously put my hands in my pockets, he will think I'm drawing a gun. If he thinks I'm drawing a gun, he will shoot me. Thus, if I go to the bank, I will be shot.

The reason this is fallacious is because the vast array of underlying assumptions that support this conclusion are utterly unknowable. It is possible that you could be shot for these reasons. But you assume that you have to go to the bank disheveled. You assume the guard will view you as suspicious. You assume the guard will even see you. You assume that the guard will think you are drawing a gun.

This is how catastrophization works in real life, and why really depressed people have manic ideas like this. They simply take on faith all the underlying assumptions that are not knowable, and construct worst-case scenarios using implications, based off of these unproven and unprovable assumptions.

What people on the Right are complaining about is that the Left are using the fallacy to dismiss arguments that reject those fundamental assumptions. "It's a slippery slope fallacy that rent control will create homelessness because I'm a filthy communist that doesn't understand economics". In the same way "I'm not familiar with internal combustion engines, so if I don't understand something, then all of your fundamental assumptions can't be true. You can't possibly know that you have the right gas in the car, you can't even see the tank."

My suspicion is that the Right has so many worthless fucking black-pillers that they simply assert that their black-pill catastrophization is true, therefore the slippery slope fallacy must also be a myth. The toxic mentality of the reactionary doomer right, poisons their ability to understand that implication and assertion are still fundamentally different things in reality, regardless of emotional disturbance or communist lies.

I know this is a long rant, but ever since I heard Academic Agent ranting about the damn thing, even going so far as to wonder if fallacies should even be included in his Fundamentals of Logic course, it's been absolutely driving me up a wall.

Logical Validity is pretty important to me because I come at it from the programming world where Boolean Logic is literally our existence, and violating it means everything you do is a failure without. Absolutely rigid and uncompromising logic is imperative for any program to function, and it annoys me when fundamental things are being simply rejected out of emotional bias.

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▲ 8 ▼
– Assassin47 8 points 4 years ago +8 / -0

I think that people mostly on the left simply misuse the claim of a fallacy to dismiss arguments they disagree with. Sure there are ways you could word such arguments that would make them fallacies but right-wingers just making the claim isn't enough as they may actually have evidence, or they may simply be opining on possibilities and not asserting anything.

Another issue is that logical fallacies are just general observations that were hopefully tried and tested (perhaps even provable) over decades/centuries, but still have some subjectivity in their criteria. They aren't logical rules in and of themselves, but more of a philosophical toolkit.

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– Gizortnik 2 points 4 years ago +2 / -0

It's absolutely true that the Left uses the Slippery Slope fallacy as a "Fallacy fallacy".

Truth is irrelevant to validity. What the Left does is claim a Slippery Slope fallacy to say that because it's a fallacy, the prediction will be false.

They know that what they are doing is a 1:1 sequence of events to acculturate people to the next step in the process, and they need a rhetorical weapon to summarily dismiss any identification of their actions.

A 1:1 sequence of events is not a fallacy, it's implication. The Slipperly Slope fallacy exists because you don't have a 1:1 implication. That's why I compare it to catastrophization.

The point is that the Left knows what they are doing is a 1:1 implication, they're just lying. And, you should always meet a claim of Slippery Slope with "Fallacy Fallacy" when you see it (because that really is what it is); and you can always explain their own objectives to them, which they like even less.

Some fallacies get bastardized in this way for political purposes. The No True Scottsman is another one.

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– raven0ak 5 points 4 years ago +5 / -0

slippery slope; or otherwise known: "if you give devil a finger, it takes whole hand" ...millenias old wisdom that you should never, ever give in at your convictions, not even one inch

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– Gizortnik 3 points 4 years ago +3 / -0

Sure, but that's not the same as the fallacy. This is about strict argumentation and analysis.

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– raven0ak 4 points 4 years ago +4 / -0

yeah, but slippery slope is not exactly fallacy, but more imaginative way of saying "give little finger to devil and it takes whole hand" ;slippery slope being in mental image of "once you start sliding you wont stop"

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– Gizortnik 2 points 4 years ago +2 / -0

It is a fallacy, you just have to be careful about the scope of your implications. And it's truth is irrelevant to it's validity.

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– w-duranty6489 2 points 4 years ago +2 / -0

The "slippery slope" is not a fallacy when it's the left's plan all along.

Since 1792 when they executed the Girondins, Lenin's Cheka, Stalin's purges, Mao's Cultural Revolution, Cambodian genocide, etc.

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– Gizortnik 2 points 4 years ago +2 / -0

Right. It's not a fallacy when it's the actual implication and the Left are just lying.

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– DefinitelyNotIGN 6 points 4 years ago +6 / -0

Slippery Slope is a fallacy. Things don't just "happen". There is intent and purpose behind each step. NPCs do not move without programming, they stand idle. The fallacy isn't in that things continue along a path, but in thinking that there is no agency directing it.

A slippery slope fallacy situation would be the US gov't legalizing gay marriage, then going "fuck it, while we're here, since we did that, animal marriage and child marriage and inanimate object marriage too!". But it is not a slippery slope fallacy when they go "Gay marriage legalized. Done. Now back to our day job of... embezzling funds and shit?" and then someone ELSE comes along, and uses the shifted overton window as an excuse to push their own political agenda.

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– Assassin47 8 points 4 years ago +8 / -0

Most people are followers who simply go with the flow - they do whatever the collective zeitgeist deems good. As you change what's "acceptable" in polite society, you change what's "tolerable", and raise up people once on the fringes to "barely tolerable" status. The shifting of mores should happen naturally over time in various conflicting directions and find some equilibrium within a culture, but leftists are making sure culture only moves in one direction. (or more precisely in various degenerate directions that lead nowhere because all they do is deconstruct)

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– Nopantsgorilla 2 points 4 years ago +2 / -0

The actual article is titled "The Battle for 1776"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/02/arts/1776-2026-A-DIFFERENT-STORY.html

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– J_Darnley 3 points 4 years ago +3 / -0

Here it was with a different title https://web.archive.org/web/20210702090627/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/02/arts/1776-2026-A-DIFFERENT-STORY.html from their first recording of it. I'm going to check through the others.

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– w-duranty6489 2 points 4 years ago +2 / -0

1984 is happening right in front of our eyes.

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– deleted 6 points 4 years ago +6 / -0
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– Steampunk_Moustache 20 points 4 years ago +20 / -0

It was always communism, from the very beginning.

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– deleted 5 points 4 years ago +5 / -0
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– Adamrises 17 points 4 years ago +17 / -0

The problem with your definition is it requires the idea of both long term planning and the same people behind each step.

Women lack the foresight and brain power to have planned all of this from the start. Each generation just took what was already there, assumed it was the baseline, and then took more. A tumblr hair feminist from 10 years ago had no idea about the Tranny movement supplanting them and how powerful it would be in doing so.

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– deleted 3 points 4 years ago +3 / -0
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– Adamrises 8 points 4 years ago +8 / -0

That's not the point I'm making. You are trying to imply there is a single thread with each of them pulling it along over time.

When its a massive force of chaos being all drawn in a direction through raw hedonism and narcissism (and probably a handful of elite at the top with certain pushes). 99% of the current crop of feminists know next to nothing about their own history, nor do they care about finishing their work.

They simply all desire power and freedom from consequence, which manifests the same paths. A convergent evolution.

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– deleted 2 points 4 years ago +2 / -0
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– lgbtqwtfbbq 7 points 4 years ago +7 / -0

Most real-world instances of the "slippery slope" are simply instances of this phenomenon:

You see, Watson, it is not really difficult to construct a series of inferences each dependent upon its predecessor and each simple in itself. If after doing so someone simply knocks out the central inferences and presents one's audience with the starting point and the conclusion one may produce a startling -- though possibly a meretricious -- effect.

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– Assassin47 5 points 4 years ago +5 / -0

You can have both a slope and somebody pushing the sled from behind.

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– raven0ak 4 points 4 years ago +4 / -0

that is exactly what slippery slope refers to; give devil a finger and it takes whole hand; give in even a little, and you will loose it all

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– deleted 1 point 4 years ago +1 / -0
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– raven0ak 2 points 4 years ago +2 / -0

and that is because feminists had first success, so they went for next success, and then next ,and then taking next successes on behalf of others because there werent any other successes for them to claim; all on marxist movement; and as slippery slope, slope to continue falling on, it wont stop until full marxist utopia is set in (theme of movement since start never was equality, it was always crush the current norms)

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