This is literally playing Judas' Advocate. Yes, Jesus had to die for our sins. but woe to those who did the deed.
And yeah, that includes all us sinners. It was our sin that held him there, etc. But there's something deeply disturbing about the people who were watching, waiting and closest to Jesus being the ones who rejected him so totally and vehemently.
Heck, should we praise the Jews who hunted down and stoned the early church? Their persecution gave us Paul's Heel-Face-Turn after all.
The point is the jews think Jesus is in hell, in a vat of boiling excrement, for disagreeing with the priests.
Think that through, Dinesh. The jews ignore our salvation. It was part of God's plan that his Son was sacrificed, it was not part of his plan that the tribe would fail to learn the lesson, and would seek to create world wars and self inflected holocausts in an effort to give the world over to Satan.
it was not part of his plan that the tribe would fail to learn the lesson,
Bold of you to assume God's plan. God created Satan, the adversary, just to have something approaching meaningful conflict to Himself. I would say that God's machinations are far beyond us, but at least I know He is omnipotent, His plans are far more encompassing than what we could ever devise. It could be a stepping stone to some greater long-term purpose.
just to have something approaching meaningful conflict to Himself.
I do not find anything in scripture to support this. This seems like a very childish understanding of God.
I would say that God's machinations are far beyond us
Yet you just explained what they were. Which is it? You don't know what you're talking about or you do?
His plans are far more encompassing than what we could ever devise.
That's what priests say in order to move you away from God. Please make an effort to see through this clap trap. It sounds like you're making excuses. Is that what God wants from you?
It could be a stepping stone to some greater long-term purpose.
It doesn't change what your obligations are and what He has openly and rather plainly demanded from you.
You've been infected by priestly ramblings. Discard them.
God created Satan, the adversary, just to have something approaching meaningful conflict to Himself.
We're getting all theological and shit here.
This isn't in my wheelhouse, to be clear, but my understanding is - and this is backed up by logic if you believe in free will - God didn't create Lucifer to be the adversary, He created angels, and the angel Lucifer used his freewill to rebel. Sure, God knew this, because, well, God, and Lucifer was allowed to choose that path, but as the other commenter said, I'm not clear on there being many arguments for "God creating Satan as the adversary."
If you take freewill out of the equation, the rebellion has no impact anyway. Lucifer chose to rebel against God.
Lucifer and Satan are not one in the same. Oathbreaker and adversary are two different entities.
As an aside to the general crowd, WOW, lotta people think God is not Great, but tiny, mortal-minded, and small here. Not to you specifically, but to the others out there: Newsflash, God's smarter than you. No matter how le clever redditor you may be.
It's just wild that they get so defensive about this.
You could just say, off the top of my head "it was the Romans at the behest of some Jews who hated Jesus," "I don't see it that way," "it was 2,000 years ago," whatever. Or, even "some Jews, and yes, they were influential and powerful Jews, killed Jesus...but it wasn't the Jews." Or even just shrug and ignore it.
"The Jews killed Jesus" isn't even a statement that needs a counterargument, whether you personally believe the statement is true or false.
But they get outraged if you say the Jews killed Jesus, and tie themselves in knots trying to "answer" it.
I think part of it is because they propped themselves up on "Judeo-Christianity" so hard, and so the concept of the Jewish powers at the time killing the Christian Savior is a massive threat to their modern power structure.
Yes the Romans actually did it, like you say. So the whole pretext isn't even that solid.
IDK who gets "outraged" over this. It's just another "blood libel" used to justify anti-Semitism. Either you believe it or realize it's garbage.
It's insulting though, like every libel is. If you walked down the street shouting "N*GGER" at every Black person you saw? THAT would generate some outrage! 😜 Or "Slave Trader!" at every White? :/
I'm pretty sure most Christians know exactly who killed Jesus and why. And yes if they hadn't? There wouldn't be salvation, or it would be entirely different.
There is some debate over "if you (say, Judas or Pilot) fulfill ancient prophecies, do you really have freewill? Are you guilty of sin or part of a divine process beyond your control?"
Or "If Judas didn't betray Jesus, would another Apostle have done so?" Maybe? Who knows eh?
Because we see NON STOP Blood Libels from the Media. One gets immune to it eventually. Just like their chanting "Yor a Nazi! Yor a waycist! Homophobe! Male Chauvinist Pig!" & etc.
Of course SOME people still get upset, especially at the stupid ones. It's not a black & white, all or nothing world out there, eh? Dems & woke leftists may march in lock-step, expelling anyone with the slightest disbelief, but most groups allow some diversity in them.
"Goyz, if we didn't sin, Jesus would have to die for our sin. You see, it was worth it! Why, no, I don't believe in Christ, I'm a Jew, why do you ask?" /Sarcasm
I’d rather they atone for their sins, or at least admit when they harmed, or are harming society, but we all know that’ll never happen. We are dealing with J’ish supremacists who look at us like we are animals to be used and abused however they see fit. J’ws honestly believe god promised them control of the entire world and all creatures in it, so if they gotta lie, cheat, steal, hurt, or kill non-J’ws to take what they believe is rightfully theirs, it’s all justified. Well, Jesus threatened their title as “God’s chosen ones”, which is like saying they don’t have a right to rule the world, so they had him killed and celebrate it to this day. The moment you present a problem for their goals of dominating your nation or the world, they immediately think about ways to neutralize you too, murder is always an option.
Also, die of old age? Isn't He the Son of God? I'm pretty sure that makes Him immortal. That's why God took Him to Heaven, because He can't die. Does this guy thank Judas for selling Him out?
If he "needed" to die for our sins, he could have simply been struck by one hundred bolts of lightning as a rain of frogs blew down in a storm of blood, proper old-testament style.
But such a showy and declarative act was unnecessary, because of the weakness of mortals. Instead of an Act of God delivering absolution in spectacular form, we get a bunch of tax auditors paying a shill 30 bucks because some loan sharks got kicked from a community center. If anything, I'd say we were robbed of quite the deific spectacle because of the debacle.
This is literally playing Judas' Advocate. Yes, Jesus had to die for our sins. but woe to those who did the deed.
And yeah, that includes all us sinners. It was our sin that held him there, etc. But there's something deeply disturbing about the people who were watching, waiting and closest to Jesus being the ones who rejected him so totally and vehemently.
Heck, should we praise the Jews who hunted down and stoned the early church? Their persecution gave us Paul's Heel-Face-Turn after all.
The point is the jews think Jesus is in hell, in a vat of boiling excrement, for disagreeing with the priests.
Think that through, Dinesh. The jews ignore our salvation. It was part of God's plan that his Son was sacrificed, it was not part of his plan that the tribe would fail to learn the lesson, and would seek to create world wars and self inflected holocausts in an effort to give the world over to Satan.
Fucking mental midget this guy.
Bold of you to assume God's plan. God created Satan, the adversary, just to have something approaching meaningful conflict to Himself. I would say that God's machinations are far beyond us, but at least I know He is omnipotent, His plans are far more encompassing than what we could ever devise. It could be a stepping stone to some greater long-term purpose.
I do not find anything in scripture to support this. This seems like a very childish understanding of God.
Yet you just explained what they were. Which is it? You don't know what you're talking about or you do?
That's what priests say in order to move you away from God. Please make an effort to see through this clap trap. It sounds like you're making excuses. Is that what God wants from you?
It doesn't change what your obligations are and what He has openly and rather plainly demanded from you.
You've been infected by priestly ramblings. Discard them.
We're getting all theological and shit here.
This isn't in my wheelhouse, to be clear, but my understanding is - and this is backed up by logic if you believe in free will - God didn't create Lucifer to be the adversary, He created angels, and the angel Lucifer used his freewill to rebel. Sure, God knew this, because, well, God, and Lucifer was allowed to choose that path, but as the other commenter said, I'm not clear on there being many arguments for "God creating Satan as the adversary."
If you take freewill out of the equation, the rebellion has no impact anyway. Lucifer chose to rebel against God.
Lucifer and Satan are not one in the same. Oathbreaker and adversary are two different entities.
As an aside to the general crowd, WOW, lotta people think God is not Great, but tiny, mortal-minded, and small here. Not to you specifically, but to the others out there: Newsflash, God's smarter than you. No matter how le clever redditor you may be.
I presume you're eating downvotes for being not only being condescendingly smug, but also contradictory in your own explanation of God's plan.
No, satan isn't God's adversary, he's humanity's adversary.
“I did you a favor by hurting you. Look how much stronger it made you.”
“Thank you. Now face the wall.”
They do love facing the wall, to be fair.
The Boy Named Sue argument.
It's just wild that they get so defensive about this.
You could just say, off the top of my head "it was the Romans at the behest of some Jews who hated Jesus," "I don't see it that way," "it was 2,000 years ago," whatever. Or, even "some Jews, and yes, they were influential and powerful Jews, killed Jesus...but it wasn't the Jews." Or even just shrug and ignore it.
"The Jews killed Jesus" isn't even a statement that needs a counterargument, whether you personally believe the statement is true or false.
But they get outraged if you say the Jews killed Jesus, and tie themselves in knots trying to "answer" it.
I think part of it is because they propped themselves up on "Judeo-Christianity" so hard, and so the concept of the Jewish powers at the time killing the Christian Savior is a massive threat to their modern power structure.
Jesus really does reveal what they are. The old religion was right all along. Like a vampire or ghoul before a cross.
They can't help but rage because there's nothing they hate more than Christ.
Yes the Romans actually did it, like you say. So the whole pretext isn't even that solid.
IDK who gets "outraged" over this. It's just another "blood libel" used to justify anti-Semitism. Either you believe it or realize it's garbage.
It's insulting though, like every libel is. If you walked down the street shouting "N*GGER" at every Black person you saw? THAT would generate some outrage! 😜 Or "Slave Trader!" at every White? :/
I'm pretty sure most Christians know exactly who killed Jesus and why. And yes if they hadn't? There wouldn't be salvation, or it would be entirely different.
There is some debate over "if you (say, Judas or Pilot) fulfill ancient prophecies, do you really have freewill? Are you guilty of sin or part of a divine process beyond your control?"
Or "If Judas didn't betray Jesus, would another Apostle have done so?" Maybe? Who knows eh?
Bruh.
I want to just leave it at "bruh," because it sums up my feeling on this total BRUH comment, but I'll dip briefly into one bit.
Almost literally every retarded Christian/Jewish Zionist, and plenty of non-Zionist Jews to boot.
Case in point. If you view it that way (like the Zionists and some Jews do), of course you're going to fucking sperg out.
How can you imply no one gets outraged, and also claim it's Antisemitic Blood Libel™?
Because we see NON STOP Blood Libels from the Media. One gets immune to it eventually. Just like their chanting "Yor a Nazi! Yor a waycist! Homophobe! Male Chauvinist Pig!" & etc.
Of course SOME people still get upset, especially at the stupid ones. It's not a black & white, all or nothing world out there, eh? Dems & woke leftists may march in lock-step, expelling anyone with the slightest disbelief, but most groups allow some diversity in them.
Ah, yes, the infamous Blood Libelers who run the media. And you're not allowed to criticize them. It's ridiculous.
Blood libel? Like accusing everyone in the world (particularly people of European heritage) of having a genetic predisposition to anti-Semitism?
One of those "this goes hard af if you're stupid" arguments
Dinesh D’Pajeet. Fucking LOL!
Judeo-christianity folks
"Goyz, if we didn't sin, Jesus would have to die for our sin. You see, it was worth it! Why, no, I don't believe in Christ, I'm a Jew, why do you ask?" /Sarcasm
Jesus Christ is King and the one true God.
I’d rather they atone for their sins, or at least admit when they harmed, or are harming society, but we all know that’ll never happen. We are dealing with J’ish supremacists who look at us like we are animals to be used and abused however they see fit. J’ws honestly believe god promised them control of the entire world and all creatures in it, so if they gotta lie, cheat, steal, hurt, or kill non-J’ws to take what they believe is rightfully theirs, it’s all justified. Well, Jesus threatened their title as “God’s chosen ones”, which is like saying they don’t have a right to rule the world, so they had him killed and celebrate it to this day. The moment you present a problem for their goals of dominating your nation or the world, they immediately think about ways to neutralize you too, murder is always an option.
Also, die of old age? Isn't He the Son of God? I'm pretty sure that makes Him immortal. That's why God took Him to Heaven, because He can't die. Does this guy thank Judas for selling Him out?
If he "needed" to die for our sins, he could have simply been struck by one hundred bolts of lightning as a rain of frogs blew down in a storm of blood, proper old-testament style.
But such a showy and declarative act was unnecessary, because of the weakness of mortals. Instead of an Act of God delivering absolution in spectacular form, we get a bunch of tax auditors paying a shill 30 bucks because some loan sharks got kicked from a community center. If anything, I'd say we were robbed of quite the deific spectacle because of the debacle.