One of the 1/1000 times I think a lib has a point
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I don't have a problem with masks or plainclothes, but there is literally nothing I can see identifying these people as law enforcement. A bunch of random dudes could blackbag some random person on the street and look just like ICE agents. Don't understand why they don't have badges.
Is there something I'm missing about the procedure?
I can understand why they don’t have badges, the second they aren’t masked they would immediately be doxxed by shit libs. The second they wear a badge they will be tracked by shit libs giving constant alerts and the vehicle make and plate numbers. You forget we are in a cold civil war.
Worse than shitlibs - it's to prevent the cartels and gangs some of the illegals are part of from taking revenge. They need some kind of special secret badges just for this situation.
If they flip their badges from under their shirts only when it comes time to make an arrest, how would libs track or dox them? Do the badges have numbers that trace back to publicly available data?
Because cameras exist? How do we have a picture of these guys currently?
I don't get it. A federal badge is personally identifying information? I didn't think it was.
With law enforcement and fed agencies as infested as they are with subversives, there is always the possibility that someone even in their own agency will leak their identity based on their badge number.
Yes, law enforcement in the US now looks like it does in Latin America and other banana republics, because the LEOs and their families can be targets for revenge by the criminals. Thanks Obama.
Yeah, unfortunately that makes sense.
Yes? Every badge requires a personal identifier. Police have badge numbers. You don’t just flash something saying ICE like a tv show.
They need to be in uniform when they're grabbing for the same reason I don't think unmarked cars should be pulling over people for speeding.
I'll tell you right now, four guys in masks jump out of a van and star running at my car? Speed bumps.
Four guys in masks jump out of a van and start running at me? Wireless hole puncher.
They weren't wearing badges when they were standing outside. They put on their vests when they made the arrest.
Basically, the cops are going as low key as possible because they know that the prosecutors, judges, lawyers, and even bailiffs are engaging in criminal obstruction of justice to protect criminals who need to be deported.
Basically, they are doing the minimum required because they know how much of a fight it's going to be.
And yes, they can detain American citizens if they are engaging in obstruction. "De-arresting" people is not only not illegal, but felonious.
This argument has exactly the same problem as any gun control arguments do: random dudes in masks can still black bag someone regardless of whether or not the good guys don't wear masks and display their badges.
And, furthermore, you're assuming that the criminals they're going after wouldn't violently defend themselves in either situation.
It's like the conservative version of the paradox of tolerance, the paradox of justice. I say most of us try to keep our principles and world view consistent and fair. But we are being overwhelmed by people who have no principles or consistent world view.
This looks bad but it is necessary. It's less offensive to me than most undercover work, like Feds infiltrating organizations. As long as their targets are vetted and legit, I'm ok with it.
I'm not worried about ICE themselves. It's more about the possibility of people getting kidnapped by pretending to be ICE, which seems really easy to pull off and has apparently happened once already.
yeah, that could happen. I'm still far more worried about getting fucked over by uniformed police - but I'm White and speak English.
If the justification for "good guys can't do a thing because bad guys might also do the thing," well, I have bad news for you. The bad guys will do the thing regardless of what the good guys do.
Then I guess I am kind of worried about ICE because a shooting or stabbing could happen in that situation, and it would be justifiable. I guess it's on them to select targets and execute arrests safely
People can also just go out and buy a police uniform, a pretty convincing badge that would stand up to passing scrutiny, and all the gear they need to look like a cop and kidnap someone. You can get the real thing for around $100 and convincing lookalikes for $25.
This presents a higher danger than impersonating police officers, as someone in a fake police uniform draws attention to yourself, but I can go out in whatever clothes I want and credibly pretend to be an ICE agent.
Not really, most people dont look at cops in uniform twice.
You'll draw scrutiny from other cops.
They have to balance the issues of "I'm already going after criminals who will probably shoot or stab me to try to get away" vs "if my identity is found out then South American drug cartels will torture, rape, and kill my entire family."
I assume they have badges in their pockets or whatever, but yeah, if I got jumped by a bunch of random hoods in masks, I would definitely fight back. That being said, any problems I have with ICE are miniscule in comparison to the scale of the problem they are up against, so I find it hard to care very much about optics.
I have the same first thought, but I think have to make some exceptions for what I’ll call the current state of emergency. This is only to apply to ICE, and should they harass a citizen, once confirmed, they should absolutely grovel to them in apology and drop any and all charges they will inevitably throw in for resisting arrest, obstructing justice, etc. because said citizen will have been defending themselves from a kidnapping. The deportees, well we have enough of them being illegal to kick them out anyway.
Otherwise, I’m not a huge fan of plain clothes and undercover for many things. Never for misdemeanors. More for evidence gathering for large crimes.
Every other comment of mine is about decentralized governance, but I think it again applies. Support for unvetted aliens is NIMBYism more than anything else. Local officials/voters would expel them if permitted to control who can reside, else be overrun by the deportees from other cities. No need for secret police tactics.