Nier Automata was made without trying to appeal to Western audiences and yet it got lots of success in the West
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While Nier Automata is a great game, if not a masterpiece, that almost certainly had positive influence on the industry, I think he's overstating things a bit here. (Think how Kill la Kill "saved anime" back in 2013).
There were plenty of very "Japanese" games and franchises that existed before Nier Automata. Maybe if he's talking about the increase in number of games that let us appreciate the "better half" of female characters after Nier Automata's release I'd agree more.
Also, I think he should let Yoko Taro speak for himself on the subject.
Still though, nothing wrong with praising Yoko Taro. Man's a genius who deserves it. I'll never forget the time he visited 8chan for an (attempted) AMA. Wish more people in the industry were like him.
I think its worth remembering the culture at the time here.
During the late 2000s and into the 2010s, the game journos and industry was full force shitting on Japanese games. Anything made in Japan was getting unfairly lambasted. Basically every trope of a Japanese game was being put under the microscope and hated on, and it basically was succeeding in making people reject a lot of those things as cliche and bad relative to Western Games of the time.
You can pull up a lot of reviews and the like from the time and find just how brutal and mocking they are of Japanese titles that aren't trying to ape Western sensibilities and culture. Especially as this was the zenith of Game Journos being high on their own shit, thinking themselves cultural titans, and using their influence to fuck with the Japanese devs. That's one of the reasons why people were so primed to destroy them in Gamergate.
While I don't think Automata is fully responsible, it is one of the most successful examples to show the big name companies that they didn't need to hide everything Japanese to appeal to the West.
Never forget the time when someone (might have been this visit) asked him why the final boss of Drakengard 3 was so maddening and difficult, and he just said "because its the final boss" and nothing further. Just let that punch sit.
Yeah, I haven't forgotten and agree with you on that. There's just stronger examples to use than Nier Automata imo, though it is still a relevant game to mention from that time as an example of this.
For example, Persona 5 was a game that exploded in popularity worldwide and was even more "Japanese" than Nier Automata (literally a turn-based JRPG with an anime artstyle, a cast of Japanese high school students set in modern Japan, with dating sim elements, and part of the decades-old Megami Tensei/Persona franchise) that came out a year prior, and it clearly also had an influence on the Japanese industry as well. It also went through the lambasting from game journos as well as tranny-lators who tried to attack its translation for being actually accurate.
Then the trannies took over Atlus NA and things got fucked sadly.
Very true on the Persona 5 point, though I think we can make some distinction between "Japanese games" and "anime games." Persona 5 is unabashedly anime in many ways, whereas Automata isn't really that anime but is still undeniably Japanese.
I think all of them combined came together to shift the tides back in the favor of Japan being itself in gaming, in various ways.
Automata I think is probably the biggest culprit for unrestrained hot MCs and open thirsting getting a comeback, which is a little sad because its a lot more than that but its what most people took from it.
Breath of the Wild released at almost the exact same time, had universal acclaim, and swept Western awards. I can get excluding that one because "Nintendo," but worth mentioning.
I think Automata's importance was being a breakthrough success. Drakengard/Nier wasn't very mainstream or even that big in the weeb groups. Then Automata comes out of nowhere and knocks it out of the park. The important part was showing that the western market can be entered successfully without pandering to it. An important example for smaller devs.
Then again... PocketPair came along in 2023 said, "Americans like guns, right?" and sold 15m copies in one month.
Well that's because they were made by Cavia, a mostly anime license slop making company, so they weren't exactly big name worthy and the combat was less than stellar. Automata's biggest reason for success, besides the butt, was getting Platinum, a hugely popular company, to develop the gameplay element to cover their weaknesses.
So unfortunately I think the biggest takeaway there is "have your small indie creator get a popular company to risk their budget/time on him and you might be universally acclaimed." Because without Platinum involved, it absolutely would have remained a cult little title like Gestalt was.
"anime" tends to be one of the things unique to Japan that a lot of people outside it feel free bashing them for (or at least they did for a long time until it started becoming more mainstream recently).
I don't want to make too many comparisons between what's "more" or "less" Japanese because, like you said, both are still undeniably Japanese in this case, but there are still unique attributes that can mark a work as being different from what the world might consider palatable/acceptable compared to what the Japanese audience would enjoy without issue, and as a result its hard not to look at said things as being "more" Japanese.
Not to mention the more palatable and popular a product becomes to the world (especially if its changed in some way), the more diluted and tenuous its identity tends to become. As an example with food: Sushi is still "Japanese" I suppose, but now everybody has their own take on it (Korean sushi, American sushi, etc.) and its popular across the world. Compare that with something like Natto which is pretty much a Japan-only thing and its clearly and solidly Japanese.
The world doesn't treat all of Japan's products and their aspects equally. There's a difference between someone who says they love Japan because they drive a Toyota Camry, eats instant ramen once in a while, and play Mario Odyssey on their Nintendo Switch, and someone importing "Anime Loli Pantsu Simulator 6: Pride of the Tokugawa Clan" through a proxy service to play on their Japanese Limited Edition Hatsune Miku PS Vita while shitposting about it on 2chan and enjoying some homemade melon bread and yakisoba from his Japanese girlfriend. Nobody would bat an eye at the former, but the latter... lol.
And you'd probably be more surprised if a game like the latter sold well outside of Japan, and not be as surprised at the former doing the same.
That finally came out? I've been waiting for ages since 5 came out.
Of course we would bat an eye. How did this guy get a Japanese girlfriend who cooks and bakes?!
to be fair, i probably wouldn't have found katamari damacy if it wasn't for it being featured on xplay, and that's one of my favorite games of all time. it wasn't because it was particularly 'japanese,' either, though it certainly was that, it was because it was authentic and fun.
"I just really like girls." -Yoko Taro
Look I'm not knocking this guy but Nintendo and Final Fantasy have consistently sold like hotcakes lol.
And Final Fantasy 15, which is about a Japanese boy band looking for a wedding dress and fighting turtles that take 72 hours of real time, came out the year before Nier: Automata.
Arguably the greatest description of that game I've ever read. Bravo.
I can't take credit for it lol
He knew.
2B’s ass is the universal language.
Funniest thing that happened was so much 'fan art' was made of 2B that Yoko Taro requested that a link file be sent to him of ALL the different r34 so he could examine them better lol.
He also responded to a guy who said his girlfriend dressed up as 2B with something along the lines of:
Based lol
A fellow man of culture.
authenticity sells
That's a fact! Being 'genuine' will resonate better than "our focus group says you WILL like this!" nonsense (which is usually woke to boot).
hell, they don't even have to make games that are japanese, just make games they would legitimately want to play. Dragon Quest, final fantasy, Metal Gear, silent hill, resident evil, hell, fucking mario brothers were heavily influenced by western culture, but the people making them crafted them with the passion of an artist and the programming of an autist.
Because of that fine android ass. You all thought I was trolling with my video game asses question! Well look here fools, be in awe of the power of a fine pixel ass! That’s right, you go up and down that ladder!
Its a shame that Automata is probably the weakest game in the series in every way besides the combat itself, which is mostly just passable compared to prior games boring to outright bad. And I guess fanservice, though Drakengard 3 has plenty of that in hilariously in your face ways.
Its also the first time in the series where it feels distinctly Japanese, as both Drakengard (literally using a map of Europe for the world map) and Nier Gestalt were very much medieval Europe fairy tale like. And, thanks to being made by a Japanese mad man, they don't shy away from the worst aspects those stories could reach like a Western dev would, like child soldiers, familial sacrifice, and actually difficult moral questions.
Heck Gestalt/Replicant is probably one of the rare cases where self-censorship not only improved a game, but is a direct example of the problem being talked about here.
For those that don't know, the original Nier game was made with "teenage pretty boy" MC going on a journey to save his little sister. It was very cliche Japan in every way. At some point in development, Squeenix said it wouldn't appeal to the Western audiences, so they created a different version of the game with a 40 something year old as the MC instead trying to save his daughter. And while both versions would be released in Japan (one for 360, the other for PS3), the rest of us would only get dad version.
And dad version is way fucking better. All the emotional beats hit better with a world weary older man instead of a sarcastic, sassy teenager, the story works better (such as you just getting a job fighting to make money, instead of needing an edgy "sold his body to older men" plotpoint), and the only loss is the removal of a gay ship with Emil wanting to fuck the MC because he was nice to him. And it continued the trend of the series of getting to play unique characters, from Caim the bloodthirsty monster to now the middle aged crag of a man and how the world reacts differently to those types of people instead.
So its a series that hits every part of this debate. Drakengard was famous for its MC being so distinctly not like every other Japanese game at the time, Nier showing them chasing both rabbits at once, and then Automata going back to fully Japanese. And Drakengard 3 exists as well doing whatever it does.
And this is a negative because...?
Its still something that was "censored and removed" for the Western release, for people who maintain very hardline stances on that principle.
I think its improved, as making it wierdly sexual/romantic cheapens the two's brotherly/paternal relationship and how powerful that grows to be. But it was still part of Yoko Taro's "creative vision" originally, so I can understand some people preferring it for the principle of the matter.