The most ridiculous form of virtue signaling. First off, who did those tribes conquer to take that land? You could pretty much go anywhere in the world and make some claim like this. Finally, if these people were that guilty then go sell your land or find members of the tribe and give away your land
First off, who did those tribes conquer to take that land?
I'm currently reading 'The Wild Frontier' and it's kinda funny to see how often Indian lands changed hands. They were constantly displacing, conquering and killing each other. Not once did they stop during the settlement of America. Which isn't exactly surprising once you realize the Indian tribes were just as diverse as the European peoples.
Yep. I grew up in Oklahoma and we would have Native American tribal leaders come talk to us sometimes and some would discuss tribal wars before the arrival of Europeans. Fascinating stuff
Pretty much, most countries that exist today were won by conquest and they are just as guilty of that as the rest of us.
Were the Americans a bit more shitty to them in history? I could argue yes since they were a bit salty that they sided with the British a lot but since independence there's been A LOT of bad blood and atrocities on both sides, just one side had more firepower.
I mean, were we? Those tribes are still around, the ones they took the land from don't appear to be. Maybe what the US did seems worse than what they did to each other because we recorded doing it.
We were and weren't. The problem with this discussion is it always just uses "Native Indians" as a whole and lumps them together despite having extremely different relationships with America per tribe across hundreds of years of slow conquering Westward.
Some areas or specific Tribes got the short end of the stick and were treated extremely poorly. Others got off pretty well. Still others got exactly what they fucking deserved.
Just look what happened in Florida under Andrew Jackson for 6 YEARS to see how bad shit got.
A lot of the conflicts with the natives are kinda skipped over when in reality you had century of a organised military force against a guerrilla force.
Be glad that they weren't united or had keen tactical insight or you would've had a Vietnam conflict spanning a century.
I mean, the reason they weren't united is because they all hated one another.
Liberals really don't want to think about it, but part of the reason the US had little issue overall rolling up on the various natives is because they were busying fighting and killing one another. And they had no issue whatsoever using all the latest and greatest technology to get revenge on past grievances.
No, not even close. Take one guess why Mexico isn't considered a White country despite being colonized by Spain?
The Spanish weren't segregationist. So when their armies rampaged through Indian lands, they generals stole everything of value, burned any village they came across, and took harems of women they abducted because literally no one could stop them. Even the Spanish government couldn't stop them. There was a brief war between Spain and their own Conquistadors because sometimes the Spanish were appalled by the barbarity of their own countrymen. It didn't help that their first opponents on the continent were the Maya and Aztec who maintained their vassal states through mass murder and cannibalism as a form of subjugation.
The Indians were simply not prepared for the style of European Warfare that the Spanish had been dominant in perfecting against the German peoples (along with many others) during the Thirty Years War.
Most Indian land was legitimately bought and sold. Where shit got fucky with the Americans was their intention to basically sell the Indians food and guns to make them powerful, and dependent on the US, using privileged groups as a weapon against other Indians. It wasn't supposed to be like that the entire time, but that was our mechanism of conquest, and it's about as soft as you can get.
I dont know, I think canada deserve's some props for their version.
All countries were doing it, with the help of churches. Destroying their culture so they could steal their lands. I think they(the indians) do deserve to have a bigger role in government lmao.
I think if politicians had to take a spirit quest before taking office, we might not have so many rich corrupt shit heads in control.
But canada was something else. Besides abducting children with gunships to take them to the residential schools.
Just learned today about how the government killed many of their dogs in the 50's and 60's.
Canadians are super good at convincing themselves whatever they are doing needs to be done. This story sounds completely bogus in the comments.
This is very true. Had a chum from highschool join the Gravel Road Crew shortly after highschool and spent 2 years in a northern community.
Had some disturbing stories about select members of the community intentionally breeding massive & agressive dogs.
Got so bad they had to requisition special bear stopping slug ammo for their shotguns. They were emptying them and their service weapons into the things but they wouldn't stop, even with essentially no face or skull left they would still be advancing.
Had to basically turn these dogs into dog food with their shotguns to kill them.
I think it finally got dealt with, but not before some kids got killed. Sadly this is not uncommon.
Glad to see some comments now saying how ridiculous this story sounds. Prolly seemed like mutant dogs to some little city slicker canadian man.
But there was no excuse for killing their dogs 70 years ago, other than they were attempting to destroy and eradicate their culture and social structures. Makes it way easier to steal their shit.
Also worth mentioning, this concert wasnt in the states I dont think, looks like canadian indians to me.
Canada (under british rule) was way shittier to theirs in far more recent history than the American government. They had some old school atrocities too.
Having lived on both sides of the border, there's a real interesting potential social/political study there (if there was anyone grounded enough in impartial reality to do it), because the populations of natives are entirely different and the only reason is the way the two governments have treated them.
American natives have a much, much higher propensity to blend into American society then do a TP dance on the weekends to keep their kids informed on their heritage. The Canadian ones are like 3rd world ghettos, living on gibs and selling tax free pot and cigs to their "oppressors" with higher crime and abuse rates than a Chicago suburb.
For most of human history getting conquered for any long length of time meant your entire culture would in a few generations be relegated to extinction. There are only a few outliers and exceptions.
It's even more baseless than that. Was that land ever even under the authority of those tribes? Sometimes the tribes never lived there, and then other times the tribes will just claim basically everything they could see.
And the talk about the treaties? What if they weren't broken in the first place? What about the treaties that came afterwards that negated the previous ones? What about the Indians who accepted those?
Im all for learning history but it has to be acknowledged that slavery and land conquest were once quite common across the world. Also you can’t ignore atrocities committed by non-whites. Finally, it’s good to learn history but at some point you have to move forward.
That's the gist of a convo I had with a leftist recently and he just said it wasn't possible. Like his beliefs don't endorse the eventual removal of all whites in the new world.
These people legit think it will end where they want it to end. And no with them being hunted down and killed when they push this self hatred and shame cult.
The most ridiculous form of virtue signaling. First off, who did those tribes conquer to take that land? You could pretty much go anywhere in the world and make some claim like this. Finally, if these people were that guilty then go sell your land or find members of the tribe and give away your land
or give away all concert profit to those people.
But it's never their own money when they talk about shit like this
Forcibly evict everyone from Martha's Vineyard and hand it to Wampanoag. Let's see if they respond as well as they did to the Mexicans.
Exactly
I'm currently reading 'The Wild Frontier' and it's kinda funny to see how often Indian lands changed hands. They were constantly displacing, conquering and killing each other. Not once did they stop during the settlement of America. Which isn't exactly surprising once you realize the Indian tribes were just as diverse as the European peoples.
Yep. I grew up in Oklahoma and we would have Native American tribal leaders come talk to us sometimes and some would discuss tribal wars before the arrival of Europeans. Fascinating stuff
Fascinating but unbelievable dark. The constant unhinged brutality and cruelty of that time almost makes the cartels look like boy scouts.
True
Pretty much, most countries that exist today were won by conquest and they are just as guilty of that as the rest of us.
Were the Americans a bit more shitty to them in history? I could argue yes since they were a bit salty that they sided with the British a lot but since independence there's been A LOT of bad blood and atrocities on both sides, just one side had more firepower.
I mean, were we? Those tribes are still around, the ones they took the land from don't appear to be. Maybe what the US did seems worse than what they did to each other because we recorded doing it.
We were and weren't. The problem with this discussion is it always just uses "Native Indians" as a whole and lumps them together despite having extremely different relationships with America per tribe across hundreds of years of slow conquering Westward.
Some areas or specific Tribes got the short end of the stick and were treated extremely poorly. Others got off pretty well. Still others got exactly what they fucking deserved.
Just look what happened in Florida under Andrew Jackson for 6 YEARS to see how bad shit got.
A lot of the conflicts with the natives are kinda skipped over when in reality you had century of a organised military force against a guerrilla force.
Be glad that they weren't united or had keen tactical insight or you would've had a Vietnam conflict spanning a century.
As often as that guerilla force attacked women and children, they should be glad we left any of them alive.
I mean, the reason they weren't united is because they all hated one another.
Liberals really don't want to think about it, but part of the reason the US had little issue overall rolling up on the various natives is because they were busying fighting and killing one another. And they had no issue whatsoever using all the latest and greatest technology to get revenge on past grievances.
No, not even close. Take one guess why Mexico isn't considered a White country despite being colonized by Spain?
The Spanish weren't segregationist. So when their armies rampaged through Indian lands, they generals stole everything of value, burned any village they came across, and took harems of women they abducted because literally no one could stop them. Even the Spanish government couldn't stop them. There was a brief war between Spain and their own Conquistadors because sometimes the Spanish were appalled by the barbarity of their own countrymen. It didn't help that their first opponents on the continent were the Maya and Aztec who maintained their vassal states through mass murder and cannibalism as a form of subjugation.
The Indians were simply not prepared for the style of European Warfare that the Spanish had been dominant in perfecting against the German peoples (along with many others) during the Thirty Years War.
Most Indian land was legitimately bought and sold. Where shit got fucky with the Americans was their intention to basically sell the Indians food and guns to make them powerful, and dependent on the US, using privileged groups as a weapon against other Indians. It wasn't supposed to be like that the entire time, but that was our mechanism of conquest, and it's about as soft as you can get.
I dont know, I think canada deserve's some props for their version.
All countries were doing it, with the help of churches. Destroying their culture so they could steal their lands. I think they(the indians) do deserve to have a bigger role in government lmao.
I think if politicians had to take a spirit quest before taking office, we might not have so many rich corrupt shit heads in control.
But canada was something else. Besides abducting children with gunships to take them to the residential schools.
Just learned today about how the government killed many of their dogs in the 50's and 60's.
https://np.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1gtajls/ottawa_to_compensate_inuit_in_nunavik_for_mass/
Canadians are super good at convincing themselves whatever they are doing needs to be done. This story sounds completely bogus in the comments.
Glad to see some comments now saying how ridiculous this story sounds. Prolly seemed like mutant dogs to some little city slicker canadian man.
But there was no excuse for killing their dogs 70 years ago, other than they were attempting to destroy and eradicate their culture and social structures. Makes it way easier to steal their shit.
Also worth mentioning, this concert wasnt in the states I dont think, looks like canadian indians to me.
Canada (under british rule) was way shittier to theirs in far more recent history than the American government. They had some old school atrocities too.
Having lived on both sides of the border, there's a real interesting potential social/political study there (if there was anyone grounded enough in impartial reality to do it), because the populations of natives are entirely different and the only reason is the way the two governments have treated them.
American natives have a much, much higher propensity to blend into American society then do a TP dance on the weekends to keep their kids informed on their heritage. The Canadian ones are like 3rd world ghettos, living on gibs and selling tax free pot and cigs to their "oppressors" with higher crime and abuse rates than a Chicago suburb.
For most of human history getting conquered for any long length of time meant your entire culture would in a few generations be relegated to extinction. There are only a few outliers and exceptions.
It's even more baseless than that. Was that land ever even under the authority of those tribes? Sometimes the tribes never lived there, and then other times the tribes will just claim basically everything they could see.
And the talk about the treaties? What if they weren't broken in the first place? What about the treaties that came afterwards that negated the previous ones? What about the Indians who accepted those?
The whole thing is total garbage.
Im all for learning history but it has to be acknowledged that slavery and land conquest were once quite common across the world. Also you can’t ignore atrocities committed by non-whites. Finally, it’s good to learn history but at some point you have to move forward.
That's the gist of a convo I had with a leftist recently and he just said it wasn't possible. Like his beliefs don't endorse the eventual removal of all whites in the new world.
These people legit think it will end where they want it to end. And no with them being hunted down and killed when they push this self hatred and shame cult.