If you want a detailed explanation of the Amazon show, I did it in this post here but the short answer is it's actually good and not really woke at all.
This post is more discussing a something that looks to be the future of the franchise in terms of lore so there will be spoilers for the show.
Basically in the show, ALL lore related to Fallout New Vegas has been erased. The fractions are either not mentioned at all or severely diminished in terms of the NCR, some things in 1 and 2 have been changed (like Vault 15 which Shady Sands was built around is not mentioned at all) and it looks like they are only using the setting of New Vegas in a season 2 as they show the strip at the end of the season.
This is one thing, but I also recently heard of a Fallout 4 update and DLC planned where the update is optimising for 'next gen' consoles and the free DLC will introduce a new fraction to the commonwealth to stop...
..the fucking Enclave...
They seem to be only keeping lore cannon completely in Fallout 3 and 4 so does the Legion exist any more? Are the Followers of the Apocalypse still around or they gone too? Does any of the characters we liked from New Vegas exist either like Boone, Veronica or Cass?
The other thing that urks me is Fallout New Vegas was the best written and world built game in the franchise in competition with 1 and 2. The fact they are bringing back the Enclave for 4 just makes me think the writing staff at Bethesda aren't that creative at all and they're just rehashing old plots again and again than try some other direction or a new take on an old fraction. It's REALLY not giving me hope for Elder Scrolls 6...
TDLR: Bethesda may be doing what Disney did to Star Wars Extended Universe and erasing lore not made directly with Bethesda
Are you being ironic?
The production quality of the show is absolutely terrible. Terrible dialogues, terrible costumes, terrible CGI. Just overall horrible writing. A few good examples are the turret scene, the "you mean use my cock?" scene and the piranha birthing scene. I couldn't even finish the second episode before I deleted the entire series from my harddrive.
Ok, what is woke then?
The two main characters who we might think of as woke inserts are shown to be constantly incompetent, surviving by sheer plot armour. Lucy is TOO naive and she pays for it everytime while Maximus is too weak willed at times and constantly makes the wrong decisions.
The most competent, likable character is Cooper the ghoul who is white and the biggest bad? His Black wife who proposed turning vaults into experiments.
That's episode 6 or 7, how did you see that scene when you couldn't watch after episode 2?
There are plenty of the usual tells. Be it the white woman/black man pairing or male characters being idiots while female characters being far more competent. It may not be in your face woke but it is just as woke as for example Rings of Power.
EDIT: Completely forgot the ftm non-binary actress/character who is referred to as "their" in the show.
Because someone uploaded the scene.
After Knight Titus turned out to be a complete buffoon with a bored and annoying voice saying "Oh fuck. Oh fuck." I was done with the show. I could have ignored the woke elements but not the terrible writing, costumes, CGI and non existent attention for detail.
The most competent character in the whole series is a white man.
I'm going to redirect you two comments down. Besides woke media has a tendency to be so badly written that the supposed hero is actually a complete buffoon.
The supposed hero, the white woman, largely is a complete buffoon through the series.
I feel like you're really reaching when the most competent characters are white, Cooper and the Lucy's brother.
As for female, let's go down the list:
Main bad guy/leading NCR remnants: essentially gave Cold Fusion technology to the Brotherhood
Betty: easily duped by Lucy's Brother
Cooper's wife: despite planning the great war, didn't have her daughter in safe place before bombs fell
Ironically the most competent bad guy is Lucy's father who manipulates Lucy and Maximus easily and it's only Cooper that easily sees through his BS.
Hell most of the guys that die are because of Lucy's naivety like those guys selling organs, unless you want to argue a Barbie where their messaging Ironically gets the opposite of what they wanted to convey, I really don't see it.
Woke isn't just about what character is competent or not. But if that's what you define as woke then sure Fallout isn't woke at all.
Seems like they're downplaying NV out of spite? It was the obsidian one, the one bethesda relinquished a degree of control over, and it's the most fondly remembered of the new fallouts and its not even close.
I REALLY wouldn't put it past them, a lot of the current crop of writers in the west will erase previous works that they can't compete with when they take over a franchise to mitigate comparisons not realising it can cause a Streisand effect.
Even though Bethesda published it, gave Obsidian a ridiculous time frame to create and goals for a bonus, to have that be recognised as the best of the first person Fallout's probably a huge sore point.
Might be some kind of niche copyrights/royalties thing, although usually when that happens it's because an IP's been split up into different parts between different IP holders.
Which is funny. It's pretty much universal that NV is the only fallout that people bother playing as opposed to 3 and 4.
Sounds like a typical 'hollow a fandom out and wear it like a skin-suit' situation, then.
Though, if they do make the Enclave the big-bad in a Fallout 4 DLC, I'm going to derive some enjoyment watching a few people rant about that.
For me it looks shallow, like someone who only seen marvel movies and lives in California decided to make a Fallout movie.
There are fan made shorts that better capture Fallout then what I've seen in the trailer.
Nuka break was amazing
gay gay and gay as fuck
oh well, we will always have fallout 1 and 2 (the only good ones, cope and seethe zoomers)
Only thing that's really bugging me about this post (Albeit a lot of lore changes from Bethesda are shit, always have been and done for eternal-ruins and aesthetics, rather than the rebuilding going on in F2):
Shady Sands
You might be confusing this one with Vault City as it wasn't built around Vault 15, in fact it was quite a way West of Vault 15. My biggest bugbear with the shows decisions to switch around locations though, is that Shady Sands was several hundred miles North of LA... and the Boneyard which was in LA and relatively close to Santa Monica is just forgotten...
But yeah, Bethesda can't even keep continuity in their own franchise (Elder Scrolls), so fuck one they've robbed and buggered
I was looking up the Wiki so might've mixed them up there but wasn't Shady Sands descendents of vault dwellers anyway so there was a vault near them?
From the way they portrayed it if I go off the geography view from the observatory base in episode 8, the hole were Shady Sands WAS is slap bang in the middle of downtown LA so did they mix it up with Bonetown and then do the Followers of the Apocalypse exist anymore?
I put it down to bad writing that they wanted to sideline New Vegas because:
Was showing up the Bethesda only Fallouts in terms of writing, characters and world building
The NCR was TOO powerful to have as the underdogs if they kept it and the West Coast Brotherhood wouldn't be able to be so prominent if that were the case.
Oh I agree you're completely on the ball with them trying to wipe out pre-Beth canon and NV, especially as in F2 the Brotherhood was near non-existent on the west coast (There was mention of an expedition East), but of course Todd wants all the familiar from Fallout in order to sell (The over the top 50's vibe wasn't really a thing in 1 and 2, but did exist to a minor extent, Supermutants were also near extinct, but "Somehow they returned", bottle caps were a currency backed by Water and the Water Traders in the OG, NCR had it's own currency going by 2, and plenty of other things)
And yeah, Shady Sands was made up of the dwellers of Vault 15, but they split into factions, with the rest becoming raider gangs like the Khans
I personally think interplay deserves to have the IP transferred back to them because they are less likely to fuck it up like what Bethesda has done.
Legion too based? Not going to list it as I assumed most here knows what the Legion is about.
So they either make them too close to NV representation and get attacked by the libtards or make them into caricature of the liberal MAGA fantasy and people either lean into and embrace it or call the showrunners out for going woke.
It's a no win situation for the show.
I'll give this show a chance and report back if its woke or not. Because you know, my opinion is very important.
They aren't creative when it comes to Fallout. They never were. That was evident from the start with Fallout 3, which was ultimately just a pastiche of the first two games. Bethesda didn't have the imagination to bring anything substantially new to the universe, or they felt the need to recycle the most iconic parts of it to justify their purchase of the IP. Hence why we keep on seeing the Brotherhood, Enclave, and Super Mutants no matter how little sense it makes.
I'd be very excited for the enclave to show up in fallout 4
I might be too...if they showed up as a remnant faction like in New Vegas, like the survivors of the Adams Air Force base.
Them just appearing in the Commonwealth when the institute is around to just take over seems forced as hell.
It's definitely forced, but so was everything in 4
You do have a point, I think people had more fun with the settlements in 4 than any of the plot.
I know I did some of the plot just to get more settlements.
Yeah, l had like 500 hours in fallout 4, but didn't advance the plot once the brotherhood showed up
I couldn't stand the underground railroad from fallout 3. That was all that was needed to deter me from buying fallout 4. Anything further left than 3 is a hard no.
(x) Doubt?
It is good by itself, the issue I'm having is lore related because I loved New Vegas.
It's why I'm warning people to attack it for being woke is a mistake, we have an erasing of previous world building issues.
"Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae." -Leonard Nimoy
Compare the American attitude towards franchises, vs the Japanese attitude towards franchises.
What a faggot. Damn. Canon is important because continuity is important
Is it?
Or is it just that in western franchises quality seems to decline without it?
I'd argue it's pretty important.
You can have good stories with bad continuity, but having good continuity generally means the quality is likely to be higher in general
I wonder if you could chart it out, a continuity vs care graph? The higher the care the higher the continuity.
I think a lot can be forgiven until you hit character rewrites (turning them gay, making them dumb, or even super smart.)
I have always wondered why some people care so much. Like when Disney did their whole "the books aren't canon" thing. Really the only thing that bothered me from that was the symbolism of the new owner giving the finger to the past. I read tons of those books when I was younger, and at no point did someone sounding a trumpet and announcing they were canon make any difference to whether or not the book was well written and a good story.
I think it's the finger to the past that's the important point.
Whenever that happens, it's usually a sign that things are going to go shit fast. You can look through every fandom and franchise, the moment they go "this isn't relevant anymore, not part of the story" it's gone to crap very soon after as it shows their intentions.
That it is, canon itself, my take is "who cares." Probably makes a dumb simpleton or whatever I'm being implied to be in another Fallout thread that I was going to respond to and decided it's a waste of time defending myself to the internet.
When they throw out everything and "update for modern audiences" though, that's about the largest red flag you can wave that what is upcoming is going to be awful.
If you do, reply back on what you thought of it from someone who didn't play New Vegas
This seems to be the big dividing line right now.