Anti depressants are curse upon the West, it removed asylums (while many were ineffective and in a lot of cases, extremely cruel) that sequestered the mentally ill from society in favour of increasing dependency on drugs.
I mildly suffered a bit from depression thanks to circumstances but it was improved by change of environment and later just working out to physically improve myself. This 'take this pill to sort out your problems' is a form of conditioning to rely on the medical industry without question for all of your issues.
With that level of conditioning, it makes it easier for them to give you an untested vaccine to a not so serious virus...
over 50% of teenage girls and women 40+ are on strong anti-depressants. it subsides when they chase chad and ride the carousel, but as soon as they make it out to the real world and they realize that no, they cannot have it all, back on the anti-depressants they go. it's insane how common it is now.
I've heard that can be a common symptom when first trying out SSRI's in general. I read about this only a few months ago, but for the life of me I can't remember what the supposed cause was.
But there's no guarantee that's the issue, because there's still a half dozen other potential causes. IE, shoddy generics manufactured in India absolutely can make a medication's effects 10x worse across the board. Could also be an issue with that medication's binding profile just not balancing out with your own neurochemistry.
Regardless, I expect you're probably aiming to tapter off of it and ditch it at this point if you've recognized the depression you were experiencing was primarily due to real world circumstances and not an inherent issue that needed tweaking. Just be sure to do it gradually, maybe even getting yourself a solid jewelry-tier scale if you wanted to measure your dosage decreases more accurately. (Ironically, first search result on scales gave the exact same scenario as an example.)
You might be able to try and alleviate some of the symptoms with some mild but effective supplements. Omega 3's/Fish oil for example. Probly best to avoid heavier supplements like 5-HTP though, since those kinds can interact with SSRI's, so may have an even screwier interaction when you're trying to go off of an SSRI.
If you find the depression related symptoms persist, in spite of successfully tapering off of the SSRI and trying other non-medication related treatment options, you could maybe consider a non-SSRI like Wellbutrion/Bupropion. It's pretty much the only non-stimulant based medication I can think of that's used for depression that tends not to produce numbing/sedating-like effects. Might cause other, less desirable effects however. It varies.
I can see how someone with the mistaken impression that “depression is anger turned inward” could believe that these drugs “worked”, because, for me, they’ve honestly left me too weak to truly express my anger as I probably normally would…
And as someone who can get really angry (generally justified, but when I rage, I really rage), that is… Interesting.
But it doesn’t help the sadness. It doesn’t help any of the other shit. Because it’s not chemicals causing those things - it’s life being fucked. And not seeing an end to life being fucked…
It’s honestly like a mild version of “chemical castration”, in a loose sense. I hate to imagine what actual HRT feels like.
No wonder they end up so goddamn aggressive (in addition to their existing problems, which “transitioning” obviously does not solve), lol…
But it doesn’t help the sadness. It doesn’t help any of the other shit. Because it’s not chemicals causing those things - it’s life being fucked. And not seeing an end to life being fucked…
Depression isn't sadness, or anger.
Depression is the loss of the will to live.
It's probably what I would consider the most fundamental reasons why leftists become the way they are. After all, most of them have it. They don't have the will inside of themselves to solve their own problems and push forward. Instead, they seek an external motivator, or savior, and that makes them vulnerable to manipulation, whether it be through drugs, propaganda, peer pressure, etc.
Interestingly enough, what "cured" mine, was simply not using Facebook anymore. Sure, it comes back every once in a while, but it's not looming over my head all the time like it was in college. The darkest period in my life was probably the beginning of junior year, when I had moved 1100 miles away from my family, and knew basically nobody. I was in a city, surrounded by tens of thousands, and yet I never felt more alone. It's one of the few times in my entire life I have lost it and broke down sobbing.
I had simple conversations with the hostess at the local chinese joint, the staff at a local pizza place, and the girl behind the counter at Jersey Mikes (guess how I gained 100lbs in a year and a half, which I am to this day struggling to get rid of). If it weren't for that, or driving for miles down to MCO at night listening to synthwave (specifically "Dr Elizabeth Darling" from the Farcry 3 Blood Dragon OST) taking the looooong way home, I can honestly say I might have been a statistic instead of sitting here typing this.
I wish I could say for certain that it gets better. Back then I was financially and physically in a significantly more advantageous position than I am now. But then again, I cannot know the future, and if I could, there wouldn't be a point.
I'm not sure if there's an end to life being fucked, but I'd like to be there if there is one. That's why I won't end it.
It’s interesting - one supposed impact of these drugs on men is loss of libido and/or erectile dysfunction…
I haven’t had these problems (lol), but have been left physically… Weakened, I guess? I feel frailer, and generally just… Not very good…
Dunno if I feel any more “compliant” or “normal”, but if the idea is to make us all into docile, “productive” zombies, I can kind of see why they might be pushed so much…
Though I’ve experienced zero benefits, personally, so I guess it hasn’t “worked” on me, in that sense.
Seems that women have a much higher rate of “success” on these drugs than men, which… Is perhaps unsurprising, considering all of this.
I was prescribed them years ago, took one pill and never ever again; I felt like dogshit afterwards. For me, exercise, sunlight, better diet and cutting out negative influences worked way better as a cure for depression.
My favourite of the listed potential side-effects was, hilariously, 'suicidal thoughts'. Just what you need in an anti-depressant.
Basically, I don’t think it necessarily changes that one way or the other (maybe it does for some people), but I’m told that, in some cases, the drugs give people the “motivation” they need to just go through with it…
For me, though, those thoughts are always there, regardless of whether I’m drugged up or not, so… Eh.
As you say, it’s about improving life circumstances. That’s the only way to get better.
I still feel like dogshit pretty much every day I take one of the pills, lol.
Supposedly it goes away, but it hasn’t for me, at least, as yet…
I wouldn't overthink it like that. The development of SSRI's were essentially a half-lucky diceroll that managed to, largely, be a surprisingly effective path to treating multiple psychiatric symptoms (anxiety, OCD, depression, anger and behavioral issues, etc). And they still don't "exactly" get how the second phase of therapeutic action actually works, because they can't easily trace or measure the effects past the first phase.
Back to what you're experiencing, probably somnolence? Or something in that general area of "unexcitable blahness" and feeling numb. There's a few possibilities, as it pertains to you: SSRI's might not be the optimal direction, the specific dosage might not be optimal, the effects from the specific manufacturer may not be optimal (see my other comment for further info), the drug itself (as opposed to another SSRI) may not be optimal. You "may" also find that you can reduce the side effects a bit if you take it at night instead of during the day.
I could "probably" help narrow things down on a few of these items, but it's still a bit of a crapshoot of trial and error. Which believe me, I have ranted to myself about quite a lot since having more recent issues. And for years I've been irritated how doctors don't simply utilize or provide more reliable diagnostic tools simply because it's not "convenient" (And there are tools that they basically use when they formulate the drugs. But the medical assumption has been that there'd be "little benefit" to using these to fine-tune treatment regiments)
Also, read my big ol' comment that I just barely posted for more info.
Are you suggesting that companies (and the uniparty stooges, along with the malicious leftists) would lie and use drugs and fake studies to control people and enrich themselves more?
Jonathan Haidt mentions cognitive therapy in 'The Happiness Hypothesis.' He says that cognitive therapy is basically writing down your thoughts, learning to recognize the distortions in your thoughts, and then thinking of a more appropriate thought. The distortions in your thought are the negative triad: I’m bad, the world is bad, and my future is dark.
You need to rewrite your personal story, learn from your mistakes and the bad things that happened to you and find a positive note in them. You're probably in your early twenties, which is apparently the age where you're more likely to bounce back on your feet when dealing with adversity and personal tribulations.
I will also say that I have often wondered just how much of "modern" society comes down to 50%+ of women being drugged on antidepressant and in most countries the vast majority of women being on hormonal birth control.
From my own personal experience over 15+ years with my wife, our relationship has been much better when she is not on hormonal birth control. Much, much better.
It's such a hodge podge of so many different things. I'd say the biggest influencing factor overall is just how utterly broken the economy has been for decades. Along with an increasingly aggressive centralization of power, world-wide.
Be careful with these things if anyone ever suggests them to you, guys. I was prescribed citalopram back when I was a depressed teenager to try and get me out of the rut I was in, and they DID work in a certain sense. They kept the intrusive negative thoughts out of my mind for long enough for me to focus on personal improvement, and that naturally helped me get out of the rut I was in.
The doctors will tell you that they are not addictive and there is no danger in taking them long term, however that has not been my experience. I am married now and have a successful career, and my day to day mood is much better than it was back then. Over time I have managed to wean myself off of the pills, but if I don't take at least one a week, I have these awful head rushes that make it hard to concentrate. Perhaps when work dies down a bit I will make the effort to push through the withdrawal symptoms and finally rid myself of them.
Overall takeaway with SSRIs: They CAN help SOME people, but they can also get you hooked if you're not careful (despite what the doctors will say). They are definitely way overprescribed.
I had a similar experience when I stopped taking my Escitalopram after a couple years. The word I found when I looked it up was "brain zaps." I would be sitting normally, playing Warcraft, and then turn my head to grab a drink and I would feel a sort of shock radiating from my brain through my body, very disorienting.
They eventually subsided, but when I reported them to my Doc who I was still occasionally seeing at the time, she denied that was a side-effect from stopping taking them. I found hundreds of people mentioning this feeling when poking around various forums, so guess who I believed? This experience cemented my contempt for shrinks and meds basically permanently. I'll take shrooms or LSD first, and I've never even touched those to begin with.
I find myself repeatedly and increasingly astounded with how clueless most doctors honestly are about their given fields and the treatments they prescribe.
I mean I guess I wouldn't be surprised if an MD would be that clueless, but someone specifically specializing in the psychiatric or psychological field really shouldn't be so clueless. It's not even a remotely newly understood phenomena either.
I've been, hesitantly, investigating the new findings from psychedelic-based treatments. Something I realized, and quickly confirmed, was that a lot of the interest and money is almost certainly coming from pharmaceutical companies who are eager to develop and patent new treatments based off of this stuff, without directly putting themselves at risk during the research phase.
Now, that doesn't negate the possible efficacy currently being tested and evaluated, but it does mean that patients ought to keep both eyes open when they look into what kind of doctor and/or facility they're hooking up with, and what kind of treatment regiment is being offered. Because I think that some of these companies are testing synthetically designed variants that drug companies are trying to build new patented drugs on. And my level of trust in their typical approach to developing reliable treatments is not especially high. And they do love burying side effects and risks under the rug.
I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who has suffered from this particular withdrawal symptom. That's exactly how it feels, a weird rushing sensation that radiates from my head throughout my body. How long were you off the pills before that subsided? It's hard to pick a time to quit because my work requires a significant amount of concentration and I can't be losing focus like that.
It is shocking how little doctors know about the medicines they're prescribing people. I think it's basically a flow chart for a lot of them; 'If A then B'. You would hope that the brightest among us might have a LITTLE intellectual curiosity, but I think the past few years have proved that is wishful thinking.
It's been at least 5 years since then, so I don't remember very well, but it was less than 1 month before I never had another one again (and I was taking roughly 10-20mg for 2 years). I weened myself down to only 5mg a day, then every other day, then completely off them as my bottle ran out, and they just happened less and less frequently, and less severely as time went on.
Who the FUCK knows what it was doing to my head all that time I was on them, or why that was a withdrawal symptom, but it was so much more bad than good that I'll never be convinced to try it again.
This is generally the same kind of advice I've given to anyone who's talked about thinking of trying them. They are not something to get onto lightly. They can be helpful of course, especially for anxiety, but should often be considered a late resort. Even controlled substances like Adderall is easier to go off of.
I appreciate the thoughts. With how little these drugs are understood, it's no wonder that they help some people and do nothing (or make the situation worse) for others.
Nobody wants to be lectured to when they're in a dark place in life, so I won't tell you what you should do, but for me, the takeaway from that whole experience was that circumstances change, often in ways you can't expect. If somebody had told me back then 'Just hold on, things WILL get better.', I never would have believed them. It's so difficult to see things EVER changing when you're in that kind of situation, but life changes whether you want it to or not, and sometimes it will throw you into new situations that will alter your perspective.
Stick around and I can guarantee you things WILL change for you, not necessarily for the better at first, but sometimes you need to hit rock bottom before you start making your way back up. That's certainly what happened with me.
Get off that shit. And consult with a doctor (or do your own research if your doctor is an idiot) about how to stop - going cold turkey on SSRIs is when suicides happen.
As someone who's run the gamut of Psychiatrics, deep personal inventory and appropriate therapy to excavate & process trauma over the course of years was what finally got me better.
Even the pills that do work cannot make the pain go away, they only numb it out-- and then there's the side effects.
The reality is that you want the bare minimum of medication required to keep you functional while you commit at least an hour a week to probing fearless psychotherapy, and commit further time to work on addressing behaviors and increasing personal effectiveness and personal capacity.
Pills aren't the answer, personal growth and processing of your past is.
Pushing 20 years, tried going off and it was horrible.
Tapered down to minimum dose, but when your working and you know you'll be both physically ill and fucking wrecked for months, when do you take half a year or more to get off them?
I'm sorry to hear about your tough times. Everything comes down to the individual, but there ARE alternatives to SSRIs that work sometimes. To echo others, when I have had difficult periods (and college was a very difficult period for me at times), sunshine, a regular sleeping schedule, exercise, walking in nature, and reading Stoic philosophy helped me.
SSRI made it so things which normally would have irritated me, did not. Libido took longer to be dulled by the drug, probably a year or two. Just quit cold a month or so back, not knowing potential effects. Felt shitty sometimes for days but that was chalked up to low sleep/felt like on the verge of a cold. Wasn't a big deal for me. Think I'm through it now. Glad I quit. Now with enough distance I'm realizing how dulled my mind had been-- very subtle. Kinda insidiously, I would say, reflecting on it right now. Found this article informative in hindsight. Would not recommend being on it for decades like the people in this article based on my experience. Probably should have stopped a lot earlier.
I can explain a metric fuckton regarding any pros or cons with these drugs. Doctors are nigh useless when it comes to explaining most of this shit, because the entire medical system is largely predicated on rather broken metrics.
First off, the "older" the drug is, the more side effects you can expect. Pharmaceutical developers kept trying to improve on whatever was the latest "hit" drug, by trying to more selectively target relevant transmitters. I know some patients "supposedly" do better on older drugs like Zoloft or Prozac, but I personally wouldn't want to touch those with a ten foot pole.
Another, somewhat newer issue that has been identified is that some people have mild genetic mutations that affect how relevant liver enzymes absorb these medications. I can't remember a good reference that covers all of this, but here's an example of one of those enzymes. A mutation can make a person absorb "more" of the medication (at a faster rate, or more in total, etc etc) or they can make a person absorb it at a reduced rate (or reduced in total), which throws off just about everything with regards to the balanced efficacy.
In addition to the above, sometimes a second, non-SSRI medication can actually impact absorption rates (IE, meds that have an "inducer" or an "inhibitor" effect on a particular enzyme).
Lastly, and this is the big one that doctors, pharmacies, pharmaceutical companies, and regulators have been trying to bury and ignore. There can be a dramatic difference in medication effects, between different manufacturers. Generic manufacturers specifically. The active ingredient is "supposedly" the same amount, but because of deviations in quality control, tablet-formula, etc etc, you could have wildly different results. You may even have cases where a patient does better on a specific generic brand than even the namebrand.
It's fucking nuts. Some generic manufacturers are almost consistently shit too. Especially those manufactured in India or Ireland. Also, because of how the system's set up, you have to go out of your fucking way just to even try to request specific generics from a pharmacy. And requesting namebrand for some medications is next to impossible, even if your insurance would cover it or if you'd be willing to foot the bill yourself.
I know a guy who takes anti depressants. He said at first it seemed like it was helping but then after a while, he just ended up feeling exactly the same as before he took them but then when he stops taking the anti depressants he feels even worse.
That sounds like the perfect kind of drug to make people dependent on them.
Though I think, for me, they’re already making my physical health worse (I feel nothing like my normal self, strength-wise), so thankfully I doubt I’ll let it get to that point, thankfully…
But yeah, that’s like… How addiction happens. And honestly all the stories from people here just put me off more…
I would rather deal with life’s bullshit with a functioning mind, even if a depressed and anxious one. On the SSRI, I cannot even think straight…
It even feels like it is suppressing my breathing a bit, at this point. I’m sure it’s not supposed to be doing that, but it is, lol…
Anti depressants are curse upon the West, it removed asylums (while many were ineffective and in a lot of cases, extremely cruel) that sequestered the mentally ill from society in favour of increasing dependency on drugs.
I mildly suffered a bit from depression thanks to circumstances but it was improved by change of environment and later just working out to physically improve myself. This 'take this pill to sort out your problems' is a form of conditioning to rely on the medical industry without question for all of your issues.
With that level of conditioning, it makes it easier for them to give you an untested vaccine to a not so serious virus...
Antidepressants are just a bandaid to try (and fail to) cover up the Progressive (aka Rainbow-Marxist) world's spiritual malaise.
#facts
over 50% of teenage girls and women 40+ are on strong anti-depressants. it subsides when they chase chad and ride the carousel, but as soon as they make it out to the real world and they realize that no, they cannot have it all, back on the anti-depressants they go. it's insane how common it is now.
I think in the case of anxiety it's a bit more than a bandaid. But it was definitely pushed way too hard as a catch-all treatment for too many issues.
Made mine much worse. But, individuals vary, and all that…
I've heard that can be a common symptom when first trying out SSRI's in general. I read about this only a few months ago, but for the life of me I can't remember what the supposed cause was.
But there's no guarantee that's the issue, because there's still a half dozen other potential causes. IE, shoddy generics manufactured in India absolutely can make a medication's effects 10x worse across the board. Could also be an issue with that medication's binding profile just not balancing out with your own neurochemistry.
Regardless, I expect you're probably aiming to tapter off of it and ditch it at this point if you've recognized the depression you were experiencing was primarily due to real world circumstances and not an inherent issue that needed tweaking. Just be sure to do it gradually, maybe even getting yourself a solid jewelry-tier scale if you wanted to measure your dosage decreases more accurately. (Ironically, first search result on scales gave the exact same scenario as an example.)
You might be able to try and alleviate some of the symptoms with some mild but effective supplements. Omega 3's/Fish oil for example. Probly best to avoid heavier supplements like 5-HTP though, since those kinds can interact with SSRI's, so may have an even screwier interaction when you're trying to go off of an SSRI.
If you find the depression related symptoms persist, in spite of successfully tapering off of the SSRI and trying other non-medication related treatment options, you could maybe consider a non-SSRI like Wellbutrion/Bupropion. It's pretty much the only non-stimulant based medication I can think of that's used for depression that tends not to produce numbing/sedating-like effects. Might cause other, less desirable effects however. It varies.
I can see how someone with the mistaken impression that “depression is anger turned inward” could believe that these drugs “worked”, because, for me, they’ve honestly left me too weak to truly express my anger as I probably normally would…
And as someone who can get really angry (generally justified, but when I rage, I really rage), that is… Interesting.
But it doesn’t help the sadness. It doesn’t help any of the other shit. Because it’s not chemicals causing those things - it’s life being fucked. And not seeing an end to life being fucked…
It’s honestly like a mild version of “chemical castration”, in a loose sense. I hate to imagine what actual HRT feels like.
No wonder they end up so goddamn aggressive (in addition to their existing problems, which “transitioning” obviously does not solve), lol…
Depression isn't sadness, or anger.
Depression is the loss of the will to live.
It's probably what I would consider the most fundamental reasons why leftists become the way they are. After all, most of them have it. They don't have the will inside of themselves to solve their own problems and push forward. Instead, they seek an external motivator, or savior, and that makes them vulnerable to manipulation, whether it be through drugs, propaganda, peer pressure, etc.
Interestingly enough, what "cured" mine, was simply not using Facebook anymore. Sure, it comes back every once in a while, but it's not looming over my head all the time like it was in college. The darkest period in my life was probably the beginning of junior year, when I had moved 1100 miles away from my family, and knew basically nobody. I was in a city, surrounded by tens of thousands, and yet I never felt more alone. It's one of the few times in my entire life I have lost it and broke down sobbing.
I had simple conversations with the hostess at the local chinese joint, the staff at a local pizza place, and the girl behind the counter at Jersey Mikes (guess how I gained 100lbs in a year and a half, which I am to this day struggling to get rid of). If it weren't for that, or driving for miles down to MCO at night listening to synthwave (specifically "Dr Elizabeth Darling" from the Farcry 3 Blood Dragon OST) taking the looooong way home, I can honestly say I might have been a statistic instead of sitting here typing this.
I wish I could say for certain that it gets better. Back then I was financially and physically in a significantly more advantageous position than I am now. But then again, I cannot know the future, and if I could, there wouldn't be a point.
I'm not sure if there's an end to life being fucked, but I'd like to be there if there is one. That's why I won't end it.
It’s interesting - one supposed impact of these drugs on men is loss of libido and/or erectile dysfunction…
I haven’t had these problems (lol), but have been left physically… Weakened, I guess? I feel frailer, and generally just… Not very good…
Dunno if I feel any more “compliant” or “normal”, but if the idea is to make us all into docile, “productive” zombies, I can kind of see why they might be pushed so much…
Though I’ve experienced zero benefits, personally, so I guess it hasn’t “worked” on me, in that sense.
Seems that women have a much higher rate of “success” on these drugs than men, which… Is perhaps unsurprising, considering all of this.
I was prescribed them years ago, took one pill and never ever again; I felt like dogshit afterwards. For me, exercise, sunlight, better diet and cutting out negative influences worked way better as a cure for depression.
My favourite of the listed potential side-effects was, hilariously, 'suicidal thoughts'. Just what you need in an anti-depressant.
Yeah, the suicidal thoughts thing is… Odd.
Basically, I don’t think it necessarily changes that one way or the other (maybe it does for some people), but I’m told that, in some cases, the drugs give people the “motivation” they need to just go through with it…
For me, though, those thoughts are always there, regardless of whether I’m drugged up or not, so… Eh.
As you say, it’s about improving life circumstances. That’s the only way to get better.
I still feel like dogshit pretty much every day I take one of the pills, lol.
Supposedly it goes away, but it hasn’t for me, at least, as yet…
I wouldn't overthink it like that. The development of SSRI's were essentially a half-lucky diceroll that managed to, largely, be a surprisingly effective path to treating multiple psychiatric symptoms (anxiety, OCD, depression, anger and behavioral issues, etc). And they still don't "exactly" get how the second phase of therapeutic action actually works, because they can't easily trace or measure the effects past the first phase.
Back to what you're experiencing, probably somnolence? Or something in that general area of "unexcitable blahness" and feeling numb. There's a few possibilities, as it pertains to you: SSRI's might not be the optimal direction, the specific dosage might not be optimal, the effects from the specific manufacturer may not be optimal (see my other comment for further info), the drug itself (as opposed to another SSRI) may not be optimal. You "may" also find that you can reduce the side effects a bit if you take it at night instead of during the day.
I could "probably" help narrow things down on a few of these items, but it's still a bit of a crapshoot of trial and error. Which believe me, I have ranted to myself about quite a lot since having more recent issues. And for years I've been irritated how doctors don't simply utilize or provide more reliable diagnostic tools simply because it's not "convenient" (And there are tools that they basically use when they formulate the drugs. But the medical assumption has been that there'd be "little benefit" to using these to fine-tune treatment regiments)
Also, read my big ol' comment that I just barely posted for more info.
There was a recent 'meta-study' done on SSRI's and the verdict was that they don't work. Exercise and cognitive therapy are better.
Are you suggesting that companies (and the uniparty stooges, along with the malicious leftists) would lie and use drugs and fake studies to control people and enrich themselves more?
Pikachu.gif
It’s just unfortunate that CBT is insanely expensive and hard to access, at least where I am…
Exercise is accessible, of course, but therapy…
I legit can’t afford therapy right now. Like, actually…
And yet these stupid pills cost fuck-all, financially…
No fucking wonder so many people are on them. 😔
Jonathan Haidt mentions cognitive therapy in 'The Happiness Hypothesis.' He says that cognitive therapy is basically writing down your thoughts, learning to recognize the distortions in your thoughts, and then thinking of a more appropriate thought. The distortions in your thought are the negative triad: I’m bad, the world is bad, and my future is dark.
You need to rewrite your personal story, learn from your mistakes and the bad things that happened to you and find a positive note in them. You're probably in your early twenties, which is apparently the age where you're more likely to bounce back on your feet when dealing with adversity and personal tribulations.
I will also say that I have often wondered just how much of "modern" society comes down to 50%+ of women being drugged on antidepressant and in most countries the vast majority of women being on hormonal birth control.
From my own personal experience over 15+ years with my wife, our relationship has been much better when she is not on hormonal birth control. Much, much better.
It's such a hodge podge of so many different things. I'd say the biggest influencing factor overall is just how utterly broken the economy has been for decades. Along with an increasingly aggressive centralization of power, world-wide.
Meanwhile, relentless pro-drug propaganda from the same media org:
https://archive.is/Cn79W
Ironically, even the GPs prescribing it tend to think that's a bit much...
https://archive.is/VZ6jt
Second-highest rate in the OECD (after Iceland). 1 in every 7 Australians. No wonder the propaganda is so relentless...
There's no way that is an "acceptable" situation, for a society, but then, given our "jabberoo" tendencies, I guess I should not be surprised...
Be careful with these things if anyone ever suggests them to you, guys. I was prescribed citalopram back when I was a depressed teenager to try and get me out of the rut I was in, and they DID work in a certain sense. They kept the intrusive negative thoughts out of my mind for long enough for me to focus on personal improvement, and that naturally helped me get out of the rut I was in.
The doctors will tell you that they are not addictive and there is no danger in taking them long term, however that has not been my experience. I am married now and have a successful career, and my day to day mood is much better than it was back then. Over time I have managed to wean myself off of the pills, but if I don't take at least one a week, I have these awful head rushes that make it hard to concentrate. Perhaps when work dies down a bit I will make the effort to push through the withdrawal symptoms and finally rid myself of them.
Overall takeaway with SSRIs: They CAN help SOME people, but they can also get you hooked if you're not careful (despite what the doctors will say). They are definitely way overprescribed.
I had a similar experience when I stopped taking my Escitalopram after a couple years. The word I found when I looked it up was "brain zaps." I would be sitting normally, playing Warcraft, and then turn my head to grab a drink and I would feel a sort of shock radiating from my brain through my body, very disorienting.
They eventually subsided, but when I reported them to my Doc who I was still occasionally seeing at the time, she denied that was a side-effect from stopping taking them. I found hundreds of people mentioning this feeling when poking around various forums, so guess who I believed? This experience cemented my contempt for shrinks and meds basically permanently. I'll take shrooms or LSD first, and I've never even touched those to begin with.
I find myself repeatedly and increasingly astounded with how clueless most doctors honestly are about their given fields and the treatments they prescribe.
I mean I guess I wouldn't be surprised if an MD would be that clueless, but someone specifically specializing in the psychiatric or psychological field really shouldn't be so clueless. It's not even a remotely newly understood phenomena either.
I've been, hesitantly, investigating the new findings from psychedelic-based treatments. Something I realized, and quickly confirmed, was that a lot of the interest and money is almost certainly coming from pharmaceutical companies who are eager to develop and patent new treatments based off of this stuff, without directly putting themselves at risk during the research phase.
Now, that doesn't negate the possible efficacy currently being tested and evaluated, but it does mean that patients ought to keep both eyes open when they look into what kind of doctor and/or facility they're hooking up with, and what kind of treatment regiment is being offered. Because I think that some of these companies are testing synthetically designed variants that drug companies are trying to build new patented drugs on. And my level of trust in their typical approach to developing reliable treatments is not especially high. And they do love burying side effects and risks under the rug.
I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who has suffered from this particular withdrawal symptom. That's exactly how it feels, a weird rushing sensation that radiates from my head throughout my body. How long were you off the pills before that subsided? It's hard to pick a time to quit because my work requires a significant amount of concentration and I can't be losing focus like that.
It is shocking how little doctors know about the medicines they're prescribing people. I think it's basically a flow chart for a lot of them; 'If A then B'. You would hope that the brightest among us might have a LITTLE intellectual curiosity, but I think the past few years have proved that is wishful thinking.
It's been at least 5 years since then, so I don't remember very well, but it was less than 1 month before I never had another one again (and I was taking roughly 10-20mg for 2 years). I weened myself down to only 5mg a day, then every other day, then completely off them as my bottle ran out, and they just happened less and less frequently, and less severely as time went on.
Who the FUCK knows what it was doing to my head all that time I was on them, or why that was a withdrawal symptom, but it was so much more bad than good that I'll never be convinced to try it again.
This is generally the same kind of advice I've given to anyone who's talked about thinking of trying them. They are not something to get onto lightly. They can be helpful of course, especially for anxiety, but should often be considered a late resort. Even controlled substances like Adderall is easier to go off of.
I really hope you can get through, and off, that!
Yeah, I don’t feel any better on it. I honestly don’t feel that it has helped…
I managed without the drugs at all for several weeks at a time, recently, so I guess I’m not addicted yet…
As you point out, it comes down to life situation, in the end. I guess it always does…
Hopefully I can “improve” my life enough for it to become manageable, but, failing that…
I don’t see myself becoming a long-term prescriber, put it that way…
But hell, I’m glad your life worked out, in the end! Unfortunately I just… Don’t see mine heading anywhere much good, anymore. 😔
I appreciate the thoughts. With how little these drugs are understood, it's no wonder that they help some people and do nothing (or make the situation worse) for others.
Nobody wants to be lectured to when they're in a dark place in life, so I won't tell you what you should do, but for me, the takeaway from that whole experience was that circumstances change, often in ways you can't expect. If somebody had told me back then 'Just hold on, things WILL get better.', I never would have believed them. It's so difficult to see things EVER changing when you're in that kind of situation, but life changes whether you want it to or not, and sometimes it will throw you into new situations that will alter your perspective.
Stick around and I can guarantee you things WILL change for you, not necessarily for the better at first, but sometimes you need to hit rock bottom before you start making your way back up. That's certainly what happened with me.
I'll pray for you in the meantime, friend.
Get off that shit. And consult with a doctor (or do your own research if your doctor is an idiot) about how to stop - going cold turkey on SSRIs is when suicides happen.
As someone who's run the gamut of Psychiatrics, deep personal inventory and appropriate therapy to excavate & process trauma over the course of years was what finally got me better.
Even the pills that do work cannot make the pain go away, they only numb it out-- and then there's the side effects.
The reality is that you want the bare minimum of medication required to keep you functional while you commit at least an hour a week to probing fearless psychotherapy, and commit further time to work on addressing behaviors and increasing personal effectiveness and personal capacity.
Pills aren't the answer, personal growth and processing of your past is.
Pushing 20 years, tried going off and it was horrible. Tapered down to minimum dose, but when your working and you know you'll be both physically ill and fucking wrecked for months, when do you take half a year or more to get off them?
Jesus, I’m so sorry. I cannot imagine that…
I honestly don’t think I could live with that, so you’re stronger than me… 😔
I… Well, frankly I’m not even sure how long I would last, if I became that dependent…
Totally understand you on those symptoms, though. It’s hell, and I’ve only experienced that for a much, much shorter time…
Man, I’m truly sorry you’re in that situation. 😑
I'm sorry to hear about your tough times. Everything comes down to the individual, but there ARE alternatives to SSRIs that work sometimes. To echo others, when I have had difficult periods (and college was a very difficult period for me at times), sunshine, a regular sleeping schedule, exercise, walking in nature, and reading Stoic philosophy helped me.
SSRI made it so things which normally would have irritated me, did not. Libido took longer to be dulled by the drug, probably a year or two. Just quit cold a month or so back, not knowing potential effects. Felt shitty sometimes for days but that was chalked up to low sleep/felt like on the verge of a cold. Wasn't a big deal for me. Think I'm through it now. Glad I quit. Now with enough distance I'm realizing how dulled my mind had been-- very subtle. Kinda insidiously, I would say, reflecting on it right now. Found this article informative in hindsight. Would not recommend being on it for decades like the people in this article based on my experience. Probably should have stopped a lot earlier.
I can explain a metric fuckton regarding any pros or cons with these drugs. Doctors are nigh useless when it comes to explaining most of this shit, because the entire medical system is largely predicated on rather broken metrics.
First off, the "older" the drug is, the more side effects you can expect. Pharmaceutical developers kept trying to improve on whatever was the latest "hit" drug, by trying to more selectively target relevant transmitters. I know some patients "supposedly" do better on older drugs like Zoloft or Prozac, but I personally wouldn't want to touch those with a ten foot pole.
Another, somewhat newer issue that has been identified is that some people have mild genetic mutations that affect how relevant liver enzymes absorb these medications. I can't remember a good reference that covers all of this, but here's an example of one of those enzymes. A mutation can make a person absorb "more" of the medication (at a faster rate, or more in total, etc etc) or they can make a person absorb it at a reduced rate (or reduced in total), which throws off just about everything with regards to the balanced efficacy.
In addition to the above, sometimes a second, non-SSRI medication can actually impact absorption rates (IE, meds that have an "inducer" or an "inhibitor" effect on a particular enzyme).
Lastly, and this is the big one that doctors, pharmacies, pharmaceutical companies, and regulators have been trying to bury and ignore. There can be a dramatic difference in medication effects, between different manufacturers. Generic manufacturers specifically. The active ingredient is "supposedly" the same amount, but because of deviations in quality control, tablet-formula, etc etc, you could have wildly different results. You may even have cases where a patient does better on a specific generic brand than even the namebrand.
It's fucking nuts. Some generic manufacturers are almost consistently shit too. Especially those manufactured in India or Ireland. Also, because of how the system's set up, you have to go out of your fucking way just to even try to request specific generics from a pharmacy. And requesting namebrand for some medications is next to impossible, even if your insurance would cover it or if you'd be willing to foot the bill yourself.
I know a guy who takes anti depressants. He said at first it seemed like it was helping but then after a while, he just ended up feeling exactly the same as before he took them but then when he stops taking the anti depressants he feels even worse.
That sounds like the perfect kind of drug to make people dependent on them.
Agreed…
Though I think, for me, they’re already making my physical health worse (I feel nothing like my normal self, strength-wise), so thankfully I doubt I’ll let it get to that point, thankfully…
But yeah, that’s like… How addiction happens. And honestly all the stories from people here just put me off more…
I would rather deal with life’s bullshit with a functioning mind, even if a depressed and anxious one. On the SSRI, I cannot even think straight…
It even feels like it is suppressing my breathing a bit, at this point. I’m sure it’s not supposed to be doing that, but it is, lol…
But I guess that’s just me.
I enjoyed the “Zen” comment, whoever it was that wrote (and then deleted) it.
I might not have agreed with all of it, but it was an interesting perspective.
Sorry if it felt unappreciated or something!