If you actually read the article the 22k was dealership price and the 3rd party shop price was 5k. And "few" years is 8 which is how long the warranty lasts, and we don't know what % of cars have these failures when.
Still not cheap but not the ridiculous exaggeration the post title is trying to insinuate.
Yeah but the Great Resetters currently in power and their allies the non-MAGA republicans are doing what they can to raise the price of gasoline to prevent that from being economically feasible.
What old shitboxes? You wouldn't want to encourage something like owning an illegal car, would you citizen? How dare you!
Cause, 12 governors sent letters to Biden asking him to put a nationwide ban on gas cars into place by 2035. AFAIK Biden hasn't done that yet (just increased the emissions standards on cars), but the Gretas of the world are undoubtedly going to keep trying.
Something like a Prius battery can be 3-4K on its own and I imagine that’s with the Toyotas scale discounts and for something less complicated than a Tesla’s. He may not be exaggerating
its a second hand vehicle, but that doesnt make it any better. you expect to buy a 10 year old car and it needs 20k in repairs? that is going to be EVERY car, soon, if they get their way with 'evs'
So battery capacity and health testing results will likely need to be provided with each used car sale. The market will catch up. Consumers will quickly realize the true cost of these vehicles.
We can talk about single cases and edge cases all day long. The fact is we need to talk about statistical outcomes and the mean outcomes far more than we need to talk about edge cases.
Electric cars are a joke until someone makes them with universal battery packs that are owner replaceable and commodity priced...like gasoline.
They're built specifically to be the opposite of that.
They're the most unconsumer-friendly vehicles on the road because if anything goes wrong with the powertrain/drivetrain there's almost nothing you could or can do on your own to replace/repair the vehicle.
Yes. I know this. I've been staying since about 1999 that electric cars would be a great 2nd car (for commuting, groceries) IF they were required to use a universal, modular battery pack. Sort of like how regulations exist that keeps gasoline pretty much the same. But no, electric cars are like iPhones. Proprietary and intentionally designed with a short lifecycle.
They ALREADY do. No, not an ICE. And no, not a tesla, nor a EMustang, nor the Hummer or Etron. You can buy an electric car TODAY that has a modular AND universal battery pack. You can fill it up at any compatible station. It's called a mirai, you can even get a few years of power, for Free!
It's a common trend in our society and culture to remove freedom and choice from individuals and concentrate power. This may be a universally human tendency, I don't know. Rest assured though, this trend will continue in EVs, gas engine vehicles, everything.
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the new cars selling now a days will need full rebuilds or major work done after 8 years. With all these new emissions requirements they're forcing people to follow, I've heard some diesel trucks require $Thousands in maintenance even after 3-4 years.
They took vehicles with engines that used to last 1M miles and fucked them up to the point where you're probably gonna spend like $10k in the first 100k miles on replacement parts/fixes.
i think its more often tranny problems. across multiple brands the nontraditionally geared constant variable trannies are better for fuel efficiency but worse for about everything else.
get a non cvt with a storied transmission or a manual and the mech issues will greatly reduce on many makes. subaru and mitsu make some afforadable manuals if thats your preference/ most other brands are getting rid of them.
That makes sense, I've definitely not heard anything good about CVT transmissions. I prefer manual too, and actually have an older WRX as a daily driver.
I tried looking up a few things regarding the emissions stuff I was referring to, and now am actually having trouble finding it. I'm like 99% sure of what I read, I'm honestly wondering if some of the references to it were wiped.
Basically, older trucks like a 2005 ram 2500 diesel were extremely reliable, with regular maintenance and a few minor fixes here and there I've heard people get like 500k miles to upwards of 1M miles. Newer trucks with all their emissions equipment are crap. People were having to replace their entire exhaust/DPF/DEF systems at like 20-30k miles at a cost of over $5k, not covered by warranty. Try and remove their crap and either the truck won't run due to the computer systems, or you'll get hit with major fines and shit if you live in an emissions tested area. All of that is on top of having to spend extra on DEF fluid, and also getting worse mpg due to the extra fuel burn to regen the filters. The entire system ends up polluting even more due to the additional fuel burn, more parts replacements, and additional processing/manufacturing requirements for all the extra shit. The only benefit (for them) is they get a lot more money out of us, and they get to say "we're being more environmentally friendly".
It honestly doesn't surprise me that some of those trucks are still going for like $25-35k nearly 20 years later.
this, they claim the starters are beefier, but I bet they just cost 2-3x what a regular one would, maybe weight more, and all to save <~1% miles per gallon. it would be interesting to see some real reliabliity numbers with all these new cars automatically shutting off.
How many regular cars need full engine rebuilds after 8 years?
Any Volkswagen AG car with a 1.8 or 2.0 TSi built before IIRC 2012, actually. VWs, Audis, Skodas, Seats. These engines had great performance characteristics for consumer, everyday cars, but they'd start chugging oil like an old Trabant - people reported up to 1l of oil per 1000 km (!!!) - after you ran them for about 100k km. It was a huge problem that needed a complete engine rebuild to fix, because it was caused by failing piston seals, which is why in my country there's a million used 2nd gen Skoda Octavias with these engines and about 100k on the odometer for sale for really cheap.
Yeah, sure, your post just reminded me of this story so I kinda blurted it out. Seriously, stay away from pre-2013 TSis. The 1.4 had its share of problems too when it was new - the timing chain would loosen over time. And then there are the 1.2 and 1.0 versions, which as far as I know are fine, but I'd never buy a car with one of those because I'm heterosexual.
a 'few' years is 8. How much has your car cost you over the last 8 years? batteries arent like seat covers, if you buy a third party battery for most products, it can be cheap or used cells, that may not last as long.
what if the third party battery lasts you 3 years? and 22k is the price of a new car and a half. JUST for a BATTERY.
you can buy a brand new engine for less in an "unsophisticated" poors car.
heck, 25k would be a brand new prius. the entire car, including the battery.
If you actually read the article the 22k was dealership price and the 3rd party shop price was 5k. And "few" years is 8 which is how long the warranty lasts, and we don't know what % of cars have these failures when.
Still not cheap but not the ridiculous exaggeration the post title is trying to insinuate.
It may well be an exaggeration (he's not exactly known for his understatements), but a 22k dealership bill is extraordinary after only 8 years.
I can get a good 2'nd hand car for that price
Yeah but the Great Resetters currently in power and their allies the non-MAGA republicans are doing what they can to raise the price of gasoline to prevent that from being economically feasible.
What old shitboxes? You wouldn't want to encourage something like owning an illegal car, would you citizen? How dare you!
Cause, 12 governors sent letters to Biden asking him to put a nationwide ban on gas cars into place by 2035. AFAIK Biden hasn't done that yet (just increased the emissions standards on cars), but the Gretas of the world are undoubtedly going to keep trying.
a brand new mitsu and have 5k to spare.
Something like a Prius battery can be 3-4K on its own and I imagine that’s with the Toyotas scale discounts and for something less complicated than a Tesla’s. He may not be exaggerating
Someone doesn't own a Mercedes.
No, not at all. It's a statistical question and you are talking only about a single outcome.
Of course a single outcome can be extraordinary.
Not for a BMW
the whole story is clickbait misrepresentation.
its a second hand vehicle, but that doesnt make it any better. you expect to buy a 10 year old car and it needs 20k in repairs? that is going to be EVERY car, soon, if they get their way with 'evs'
So battery capacity and health testing results will likely need to be provided with each used car sale. The market will catch up. Consumers will quickly realize the true cost of these vehicles.
We can talk about single cases and edge cases all day long. The fact is we need to talk about statistical outcomes and the mean outcomes far more than we need to talk about edge cases.
I bought my Corolla 100k and 5 years ago for $4k. Probably still has a other 250k left on it.
Electric cars are a joke until someone makes them with universal battery packs that are owner replaceable and commodity priced...like gasoline.
They're built specifically to be the opposite of that.
They're the most unconsumer-friendly vehicles on the road because if anything goes wrong with the powertrain/drivetrain there's almost nothing you could or can do on your own to replace/repair the vehicle.
Yes. I know this. I've been staying since about 1999 that electric cars would be a great 2nd car (for commuting, groceries) IF they were required to use a universal, modular battery pack. Sort of like how regulations exist that keeps gasoline pretty much the same. But no, electric cars are like iPhones. Proprietary and intentionally designed with a short lifecycle.
They ALREADY do. No, not an ICE. And no, not a tesla, nor a EMustang, nor the Hummer or Etron. You can buy an electric car TODAY that has a modular AND universal battery pack. You can fill it up at any compatible station. It's called a mirai, you can even get a few years of power, for Free!
Electric cars could be so great if every company making them wasn't God awful.
It's a common trend in our society and culture to remove freedom and choice from individuals and concentrate power. This may be a universally human tendency, I don't know. Rest assured though, this trend will continue in EVs, gas engine vehicles, everything.
It costs more than making a new one, thats why eLoN doesnt do it.
Would you trust a questionably sourced battery from a random 3rd party?
How many regular cars need full engine rebuilds after 8 years?
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the new cars selling now a days will need full rebuilds or major work done after 8 years. With all these new emissions requirements they're forcing people to follow, I've heard some diesel trucks require $Thousands in maintenance even after 3-4 years.
They took vehicles with engines that used to last 1M miles and fucked them up to the point where you're probably gonna spend like $10k in the first 100k miles on replacement parts/fixes.
i think its more often tranny problems. across multiple brands the nontraditionally geared constant variable trannies are better for fuel efficiency but worse for about everything else.
get a non cvt with a storied transmission or a manual and the mech issues will greatly reduce on many makes. subaru and mitsu make some afforadable manuals if thats your preference/ most other brands are getting rid of them.
They put CVTs in real cars now?
That makes sense, I've definitely not heard anything good about CVT transmissions. I prefer manual too, and actually have an older WRX as a daily driver.
I tried looking up a few things regarding the emissions stuff I was referring to, and now am actually having trouble finding it. I'm like 99% sure of what I read, I'm honestly wondering if some of the references to it were wiped.
Basically, older trucks like a 2005 ram 2500 diesel were extremely reliable, with regular maintenance and a few minor fixes here and there I've heard people get like 500k miles to upwards of 1M miles. Newer trucks with all their emissions equipment are crap. People were having to replace their entire exhaust/DPF/DEF systems at like 20-30k miles at a cost of over $5k, not covered by warranty. Try and remove their crap and either the truck won't run due to the computer systems, or you'll get hit with major fines and shit if you live in an emissions tested area. All of that is on top of having to spend extra on DEF fluid, and also getting worse mpg due to the extra fuel burn to regen the filters. The entire system ends up polluting even more due to the additional fuel burn, more parts replacements, and additional processing/manufacturing requirements for all the extra shit. The only benefit (for them) is they get a lot more money out of us, and they get to say "we're being more environmentally friendly".
It honestly doesn't surprise me that some of those trucks are still going for like $25-35k nearly 20 years later.
If you get 3-5 with an engine that shuts off when you reach a red light, count yourself lucky.
this, they claim the starters are beefier, but I bet they just cost 2-3x what a regular one would, maybe weight more, and all to save <~1% miles per gallon. it would be interesting to see some real reliabliity numbers with all these new cars automatically shutting off.
I would not buy such a car unless that feature can be easily turned off. So far, I have been able to do that.
Besides rotaries?
you kinda gotta admit that those engines are a freakin genius design.
They're nice but the best part is they're a pleb filter
That's a good one, it's the reason nobody builds those anymore as well.
Any Volkswagen AG car with a 1.8 or 2.0 TSi built before IIRC 2012, actually. VWs, Audis, Skodas, Seats. These engines had great performance characteristics for consumer, everyday cars, but they'd start chugging oil like an old Trabant - people reported up to 1l of oil per 1000 km (!!!) - after you ran them for about 100k km. It was a huge problem that needed a complete engine rebuild to fix, because it was caused by failing piston seals, which is why in my country there's a million used 2nd gen Skoda Octavias with these engines and about 100k on the odometer for sale for really cheap.
I'm not surprised it's VW.
That's a defect though, not something that is part of the existence of engines.
Yeah, sure, your post just reminded me of this story so I kinda blurted it out. Seriously, stay away from pre-2013 TSis. The 1.4 had its share of problems too when it was new - the timing chain would loosen over time. And then there are the 1.2 and 1.0 versions, which as far as I know are fine, but I'd never buy a car with one of those because I'm heterosexual.
a 'few' years is 8. How much has your car cost you over the last 8 years? batteries arent like seat covers, if you buy a third party battery for most products, it can be cheap or used cells, that may not last as long.
what if the third party battery lasts you 3 years? and 22k is the price of a new car and a half. JUST for a BATTERY.
you can buy a brand new engine for less in an "unsophisticated" poors car.
heck, 25k would be a brand new prius. the entire car, including the battery.
Telsas dont make any sense, for anyone.