I'm taking this out of the reddit thread to discuss it directly.
Kienan was moaning about how .win is less searchable than reddit and how searchability is somehow vital to the success of sites.
This is patently false. Search is not what determines the success or failure of a site. Having a compelling, active community that people want to participate in and spread word about is what makes or breaks a site.
Every time a person types in communities.win, or selects it from their bookmarks, that was a LOSS for google. A loss for reddit. That was traffic that reached us, without them. IN SPITE of them. A net lost customer to them.
That is the power of the internet.
The power to look at any site and decide "you're dead to me", walk away, and deny them all power and go directly to the sites you actually WANT to use.
To those of you who still use reddit: I doubt your commitment to the great work of defeating reddit. In my eyes you are a failure by your own choices as a consumer. You give them power OVER YOU by your continued patronage.
The only answer is to walk away, make this the best we can, use it for everything, and BE THE CHANGE WE WANT TO SEE.
Going back further in time, when the KiA2 sub was new I remember people complaining that there weren't any posts or comments so they had to use KiA1. Then over time KiA2 got more and active to the point where there was more going on there than KiA1.
An existence proof that "be the change" can in fact work.
KIA banned all of us most active users and the sub basically became Bvolleyball posting.
True the KiA mods did themselves no favors by removing everything remotely interesting. But that started in earnest a bit later.
There was a time where I would read the KiA1 and KiA2 subreddits during lunch at work. I still remember there was one day where it seemed like the posts on KiA2 never ended and I was worried that I would go over my break trying to read KiA1, only to realize that KiA1 had not had any new posts since I had read it the day before.
I definitely agree that engagement is what makes a community work, and in a way KiA1 has killed themselves in that regard. I worry about KiA2 kind of bleeding out though, between the original split with KiA1, and then the split between reddit and .win, potentially resulting in users being spread too thin.
Fortunately we seem to have at least settled on one alternative to reddit instead of being split between here, saidit, poal, etc...
Which is why I believe that the reddit kia2 should have been locked the day kia2.win went online.
Coercion is wrong and also ineffective. If people don't want to come here, they won't come here if the sub is locked either.
People don't want to come here because most of the people are over there.
Because you didn't shut over there down. Dumbass.
Nor will I. It's a sub founded against mod abuses. Abuses like: "alright, everyone now has to go to the Win because I, the superior moderator, say so".
Of the 25k, at least 24k will tell me to shove it, and rightly so.
Except for all the ones the admins dictated and you adhered to like an obedient little moderator.
Correct. As I said when I first mentioned KiA2:
https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/ap4q2n/call_for_moderators_for_rkotakuinaction2_meta/
Then we know which 1k were on our side.
Not sure if you're aware, but you win battles by increasing your coalition, not by excommunicating as many as possible.
Weekendgunnit closed itself on Reddit and the site here is a shell of its shit posting self. First few days were active then it really fell off. The hundreds of active posters and thousands of lurkers dwindled to dozens of us.
Good.
Now you know how many of them were worthless sheeple and how false your imagined community was. You were deluded. Now you are free. It may take years but you'll build back up, and you'll build back free of reddit.
I left behind communities on reddit that HAVE NO equivalent here.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I have no idea which internet you've been using for the last several decades, but search absolutely does determine the success or failure of A LOT of websites.
Search predominantly makes up close to 70% - 90% of a large site's traffic, and this is how advertisers determine the value of what sort of ads will run on said site, usually gauged through Comscore.
Now in this case, .win isn't a commercially viable website, so you would have a point insofar as the search not being important for that aspect of the site, but for fact-checking, information, and mindshare, search is an invaluable tool. It's why Google controls some 91.86% of both search and ad revenue on the global web: https://gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share
Which is peanuts compared to the billions of people using the other services. I know this might make you feel big in some way, but it reminds me of when Dr. Evil was asking for like $1 million in ransom.
Only if it's allowed to be disseminated, which is something else you seem to lack accountability for.
I'll give you an example: YouTube censors out websites it deems "Right wing", even for the comments. So let's say you want to share a .win with some people to red pill them on YouTube. Great. Now your comment is shadowbanned, and if you keep trying to post it, your P-score will be lowered and your account will be shadowbanned to the point where your comments just won't show up on any channel, eventually.
Copy and paste this tactic across most large scale social media, and you can see how "word of mouth" is only as effective as that "word" is allowed to spread.
This, I actually do agree with. Reddit is cancerous, even just to read. I try to avoid it at all costs even when looking up some fairly obscure information. Sometimes it's unavoidable, but for the most part everyone should be trying to avoid that cesspit.
Sounds good and all, but how well did that work out for Parler and Gab?
The .win situation is a little bit more complex than that, and there's a tricky balance involving growth versus inconspicuousness. But I feel I've wasted enough time talking about this subject.
lol
I DON'T FUCKING CARE.
Kowtowing to google will not make THIS site big because they already want us to fail.
Oh look. Totally unnecessary drama. I feel like I'm back on reddit.
Nobody ever got power by asking for it from the current power.
for me, moderators of reddit is primary reason to leave, if they gonna use perma bans as only ban mode available and go after even non rule breaks , yeah its not going to do well for community
Pretty much. It’s like a job. You join companies and leave bosses.
Honestly an invite-only elitist mindset is better for initial growth of any community. The exclusivity is what attracts people. You only want to open it up once it reaches some mass threshold of users.
... So you're saying violence is the answer?
I have no interest in continuing this nonsense, and I have nothing against you. You attacked me for no reason, and made it nasty. I'll give you one response, then I'm peacing out of this ridiculous drama. I do hope we can get along going forward though, like I said, nothing against you. We each have our opinions.
I wasn't "moaning," I was pointing out Reddit has a lot more searchability, traffic, and potential audience. And I stand by that. Each of those things is pretty important. Make or break? Not necessarily. But absolutely important.
Correct. But that's not how 99% of people use the internet. You won't be reaching many new people if you cut off that much. You're not wrong in your statement, but I think you're wrong in the implementation. It just doesn't work that way, Google is the "front page of the internet" for a reason, and people got used to that. Most - for right or wrong - are accustomed to that, and want such a front page. And at present that page is Google.
Again, hard to do when, for a vast swathe of the internet population - a majority - Google is almost synonymous with the internet itself. What you're saying is good personal practice, but it's not an out-and-out solution. It's just not feasible on this sort of scale. There would need to be some massive event, that people are actually allowed to hear about, to break Google's hold at all. Individual users choosing to stay away is great, it really is, but it doesn't solve anything. Yet.
How the fuck is this helpful at all? And you keep saying it, on many different threads. I've seen it like four times from you today, I think. You spend an awful lot of time obsessing about Reddit, for someone who thinks Reddit is irrelevant. Why do you care if there's a KiA2 on Reddit, and why do you care if people want to use it?
Unlike Google's current hold, I do believe Reddit's is slipping. Why not just let KiA2 exist on Reddit until the inevitable end? Until that point, I still believe it's useful to have a bastion there as well. It doubt KiA2 on Reddit will survive the year anyway, but I don't see any harm in sticking it out, and I think there is an upside; I think people will find us over there, that wouldn't have found us here. How many? I don't know, but a non-zero number. Furthermore, it's nice to have that beachhead on Reddit, and I think it will direct more and more people here, as Reddit goes more and more to crap. That's historically how it's worked, too. The longer some people can ride things out on Reddit, the more people who will make it over here before the fall.
I don't think they're irrelevant.
I THINK THEY SHOULD BE MADE IRRELEVANT.
Starting with our own community, by pulling the plug over there and putting people on the spot to emigrate.
You were downvoted for sperging in that other thread, so you created a new one?
Precisely.
No, the based man leaving the battlefront and going home to his village to be a family man does not defeat the tyrant. It might make him feel morally in the right, but he's done nothing for the rest of us.
We're not on the right side of history. There is no such thing. Deciding in your heart that you've won does not make it so. It's like people saying if I recycle and don't throw my plastic straws away, I'm saving the oceans. It doesn't work unless everyone does it. Your contribution is meaningless unless you've done something to sway others.
By the way, I don't use reddit, or any mainstream media or social media. I can't stand them. I can't talk to the people there without feeling sick. That's my failure. I'm the man who could no longer stomach the destruction and left the battlefield. I respect those people who are still participating in the war on all fronts.
This all predicated on the fact that we believe people still using reddit are fighting the good fight, tactically trolling and trying to bring people over here, and not just there for the memes. If you don't even believe them, there's no point to the argument.
This isn't a battlefield.
This is two parties across the street from each other competing to see who can get more guests.
This network is a 2nd rate Mickey Mouse version of Reddit. I only started using it because I was permanently suspended from Reddit and didn’t feel like making an alt. That’s it.
The fact that you're admonishing people for not coming here (and staying there) is like demanding why people don’t just go ahead and move into their bomb shelter if they already have running water, MREs, and some cots down there already.
I am giving up things for the cause.
There are a couple dozen subreddits ENTIRELY unrelated to this culture war, that I walked away from, because I believe in this cause. Despite there being no equivalent here or anywhere else.
Because I believe in the principle of what we're trying to do. Because I believe the only way THIS will get better is by getting bigger, and the only way this gets bigger is by people not using the alternative.
It's hard to dislike you after this comment, but at the same time, sperging at people - let alone one of the most respected members of the community - doesn't do any good.
Look at what kowtowing to reddit got you?
Nothing.
The only answer is to walk away. To tell other people to walk away, and to forget about those who choose not to follow.
The community is still there.
No one is obliged to obey orders from me or to 'follow'.
But you can blow up the infrastructure behind you, lock it down so they have to choose between staying with the kia2 community or using reddit. But the community must move. If that means most of the "community" is proven to be fairweather friends, SO BE IT.
I'D RATHER LEAVE NO VESTIGE BEHIND AND LOSE FAIRWEATHER NUMBERS THAN SEE THE ACTUALLY COMMITTED COMMUNITY BE DIVIDED.
The very thought of such a betrayal of people who have put their trust in me is abhorrent to me.
You sound like Vladimir Lenin. Except that you're not making any revolution.
Here's the deal AoV.
You value quantity with no regard to quality.
I value quality with no regard to quantity.
To me, your behavior is always going to be whorish.
Search is a critical tool for lazy communist “journalists” looking for comments to write a clickbait article around. Reddit is a godsend for them.