While I in no way condone the way any of this was handled, I'm not sure what anyone expected. There's nothing a "list" can do legally to get anyone in trouble, and would almost certainly get Trump in deep shit legally and financially.
There are only two ways to really convict someone of anything: they admit to it, or someone saw them do it. Witness or confession. That's it.
Epstein can't finger anyone anymore (whether dead or disappeared), and no mega billionaire kidfucker is going to admit to anything, so an alleged list of alleged names of alleged sex perverts is legally worthless. There's just no scenario where producing a list of names on documents leads to a court conviction, there's too many ways to spin it. But releasing it would prompt a hundred defamation lawsuits from billionaires all of which the Trump admin would lose. Alan Dershowitz already sued the bajeezus out of the most prominent Epstein accuser for naming him until he destroyed her credibility, ruined her life, and drove her to suicide.
If no one saw them do it and no one admits to anything, nothing can be done. Trump's people were stupid for making this a centerpiece of their plan and then having to embarrass themselves like this by walking it back. If they admit the truth they look weak, if they drop it they look weaker. It's all downsides. Talk about an own-goal.
There's nothing a "list" can do legally to get anyone in trouble, and would almost certainly get Trump in deep shit legally and financially.
In the early 90s, Hulk Hogan and the WWF were sued for illegal steroid use, and all it took was a doctor's office getting raided and they found a list with various athletes' names on it.
And there's also the wife of Epstein. She's an eye witness who can name names of not only the kidfuckers, but other people tangentially involved who can corroborate her testimony.
While I in no way condone the way any of this was handled, I'm not sure what anyone expected. There's nothing a "list" can do legally to get anyone in trouble, and would almost certainly get Trump in deep shit legally and financially.
People use "the list" as shorthand for all the evidence the state has on file about Epstein. They undoubtedly have plenty of stuff that can get people, and Israel, in trouble, because they won't release it.
Trump would never get in trouble legally for this either. The Presidency has the highest level of qualified immunity possible, as demonstrated by the Supreme Court last year.
There are only two ways to really convict someone of anything: they admit to it, or someone saw them do it. Witness or confession. That's it.
Or there's videos and forensic document trails. You can also lean on the guiltiest to flip on the rest.
You are probably right that a bunch of people would not be prosecutable, but some would be.
I'm sure they tried to get her to narc in exchange for stuff but she didn't. Her case is likely to get overturned on the basis of witnesses who testified were kept anonymous, a clear constitutional violation.
There were CCTV and decades of footage and on that cursed island. They won’t just throw that away. The list will at least let people see the nail while the government was supposed to hammer down with the footage as proof.
You assume they knew about the cameras. I bet Epstein told them there weren't any and only revealed the truth when Israel needed favors from a person who had used his island.
That and these people are literally not human anymore. They seek not only financial power over the masses, they want to feel physically power over someone intimately.
On top of that, so what if they can get in trouble later? If everyone is doing it, then it’s self-assured destruction.
That and these people are literally not human anymore. They seek not only financial power over the masses, they want to feel physically power over someone intimately.
“I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”- back in 2002 Donald Trump
And now he doesn't want to release the files. Sorry but there's too much evidence that he's part of it .
Yeah that's why he brought up Epstein and his island when nobody was talking about it?
Why did he ban Epstein from Mar-a-lago? Stiffed him on the bill?
Why didn't anyone release kompromat video of Trump shagging a 16-year old girl during his campaigns if it exists? Because it would somehow bring down everyone else? Then what good is blackmail that you can never use??
Not to mention that Prince Andrew was destroyed by selective release of Epstein blackmail, a photo with Virginia Guiffre. If such a photo of Trump exists, then where is it?
Why try to assassinate Trump twice if they could just sink him with one file?
I recall that when Epstein was being prosecuted, Trump was one of the main people helping by providing information.
Additionally, if Trump was involved we'd have known during 2016 when they were spying on him. We'd have known when the Biden administration was doing everything they could to lock him up. You can be disappointed in Trumps recent pro Israel actions, but saying he was part of the Epstein clientele is next level retardation.
Or maybe he has more selfish motives. Maybe it's him. Maybe he'll lose a few Republican Congressmen - the Democrats will refuse to resign because Blumpfff wrote the files. Maybe Sheldon Adelson is there and his wife called Trump and said that she didn't bribe him $100 million to ruin his rep. Who knows?
I hate that he has us wondering about such tawdry things, one year after a bullet made him a hero of legend.
Yeah that's why he brought up Epstein and his island when nobody was talking about it?
Guy had been convicted a decade earlier. Trump brought it up because Clinton was associated with Epstein, and he suggested that he was doing more than just be associated, which we now hear is TOTALLY FAKE.
Given that Epstein had no clients and no one else abused kids, doesn't Trump owe Clinton an apology for suggesting that Clinton was raping kids on that island?
Why did he ban Epstein from Mar-a-lago? Stiffed him on the bill?
They got in a fight that was completely unrelated to the raping.
Why didn't anyone release kompromat video of Trump shagging a 16-year old girl during his campaigns if it exists?
Not saying that it exists, but maybe because they can get him to do the deep state's bidding (bombing Iran, weaponizing Ukraine) by using it as leverage.
Not saying that it exists, but maybe because they can get him to do the deep state's bidding (bombing Iran, weaponizing Ukraine) by using it as leverage.
Lol because the deep state didn't throw the kitchen sink at him in his first term and both his reelection campaigns? He was such a bad option for them that they tried to kill him twice.
If you try to throw a guy in prison and then have him killed, you're not going to hold blackmail material in reserve.
Lol because the deep state didn't throw the kitchen sink at him in his first term and both his reelection campaigns?
Did it? I'm not sure I know the extent of "the kitchen sink" for the deep state. But they certainly didn't bring up his public connection to Epstein. That may be because their own people were vulnerable though.
He was such a bad option for them that they tried to kill him twice.
I posed this question earlier: "Why would you brave 2 impeachments, 91 indictments, 2 assassination attempts, only to give the people doing that everything they wanted?"
If you try to throw a guy in prison and then have him killed, you're not going to hold blackmail material in reserve.
Maybe? Everyone needs a Plan B. If they are blackmailing him, it's working very well. If they're not blackmailing him, he's doing the stuff they want (bomb Iran, Ukraine, suppress Epstein List) without being blackmailed. Which is worse?
(I'm not saying there is blackmail material. But I can't help but wonder, and I have been wondering for 1.5 months since his Iran nonsense.)
Did it? I'm not sure I know the extent of "the kitchen sink" for the deep state. But they certainly didn't bring up his public connection to Epstein. That may be because their own people were vulnerable though.
Again: what is the value of blackmail if you can't use it?
Assuming it exists, who says they're not using it? Why has Trump II been a neocon's fever dream after running against neocons and warmongers? That could explain it.
If I were holding blackmail archives of the deep state, I'd use 91 indictments to prevent Trump from getting elected, but just in case he is elected, then I'd want an ace up my sleeve rather than have him be a truly free agent.
Assuming it exists, who says they're not using it? Why has Trump II been a neocon's fever dream after running against neocons and warmongers? That could explain it.
No. If they had blackmail of that caliber, it would be 100% effective in stopping him from taking office. It would make no sense to hold onto it. You don't draw a knife and hold your pistol in reserve.
Glad you have other sources besides the daily beast since they are super left wing and go after anyone right of Mao. Not looking good for him to do this at all. Part of me thinks if he was on the list they would’ve loved nothing more than to put that out but who knows.
If he was on the list, then he'd have turned into the standard tame republicuck after his first inauguration and kept the Overton window moving left, instead of being a loose cannon that ended up moving it right. He probably just has the same Israel-shaped blindspot most boomers do and believes he somehow has a religious obligation to help that nation of antichrists however he can.
He probably just has the same Israel-shaped blindspot most boomers do and believes he somehow has a religious obligation to help that nation of antichrists however he can.
Good intentions or not, the evil in his actions is what matters in the end.
Lincoln might have had good intentions, but his actions destroyed the freedom of the states to choose their own destiny, and laid the foundations of the largest bureaucracy in history.
He kind of did. What actually got passed? Just the republicuck neocon agenda. He blamed it, not entirely incorrectly, on admin state subversion - but that's still all he accomplished in his 1st term.
And now in his 2nd, when his first act was to purge that administrative state? He's gone full neocon: running pissrael's military ops, carving big ag and hospitality out of the deportations, and of course covering up Epstein.
He probably just has the same Israel-shaped blindspot most boomers do
His very first statements about the matter as a candidate was that the US should be more balanced towards Israel and the Palestinians. He quickly discovered not to touch the third rail in American politics.
Playing jewish advocate here.
While I in no way condone the way any of this was handled, I'm not sure what anyone expected. There's nothing a "list" can do legally to get anyone in trouble, and would almost certainly get Trump in deep shit legally and financially.
There are only two ways to really convict someone of anything: they admit to it, or someone saw them do it. Witness or confession. That's it.
Epstein can't finger anyone anymore (whether dead or disappeared), and no mega billionaire kidfucker is going to admit to anything, so an alleged list of alleged names of alleged sex perverts is legally worthless. There's just no scenario where producing a list of names on documents leads to a court conviction, there's too many ways to spin it. But releasing it would prompt a hundred defamation lawsuits from billionaires all of which the Trump admin would lose. Alan Dershowitz already sued the bajeezus out of the most prominent Epstein accuser for naming him until he destroyed her credibility, ruined her life, and drove her to suicide.
If no one saw them do it and no one admits to anything, nothing can be done. Trump's people were stupid for making this a centerpiece of their plan and then having to embarrass themselves like this by walking it back. If they admit the truth they look weak, if they drop it they look weaker. It's all downsides. Talk about an own-goal.
In the early 90s, Hulk Hogan and the WWF were sued for illegal steroid use, and all it took was a doctor's office getting raided and they found a list with various athletes' names on it.
And there's also the wife of Epstein. She's an eye witness who can name names of not only the kidfuckers, but other people tangentially involved who can corroborate her testimony.
LOL Hulk Hogan. Have you ever seen anything stick to anyone on the left, ever?
Bill Clinton’s cum.
Also, the WWE case proves my point.
The list was used to persuade the doctor to testify as a witness, not to convict on its own.
The doctor confessed under questioning, incriminating himself.
Vince McMahon was found not guilty, so the evidence wasn't even enough to convict.
If she didn't narc on anyone to avoid jail already, why would she now?
People use "the list" as shorthand for all the evidence the state has on file about Epstein. They undoubtedly have plenty of stuff that can get people, and Israel, in trouble, because they won't release it.
Trump would never get in trouble legally for this either. The Presidency has the highest level of qualified immunity possible, as demonstrated by the Supreme Court last year.
Or there's videos and forensic document trails. You can also lean on the guiltiest to flip on the rest.
You are probably right that a bunch of people would not be prosecutable, but some would be.
If only we had one of Epstein's accomplices in prison so we could interrogate her about who did what.
I'm sure they tried to get her to narc in exchange for stuff but she didn't. Her case is likely to get overturned on the basis of witnesses who testified were kept anonymous, a clear constitutional violation.
There were CCTV and decades of footage and on that cursed island. They won’t just throw that away. The list will at least let people see the nail while the government was supposed to hammer down with the footage as proof.
I've long wondered: what billionaire/politician would have sex in front of a CCTV, let alone with a kid.
You assume they knew about the cameras. I bet Epstein told them there weren't any and only revealed the truth when Israel needed favors from a person who had used his island.
If it's the only way forward in your career what other choice is there?
That and these people are literally not human anymore. They seek not only financial power over the masses, they want to feel physically power over someone intimately.
On top of that, so what if they can get in trouble later? If everyone is doing it, then it’s self-assured destruction.
That's normal though, what are you on about?
"Trump admin would lose"
This isn't Britain, burden of proof for defamation is on them.
“I was Donald’s closest friend for 10 years.”- Jeffrey Epstein
https://x.com/thedailybeast/status/1852853415472226804
“I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”- back in 2002 Donald Trump
https://archive.md/6rQtW
Add that to all the photos they have in parties together
And now he doesn't want to release the files. Sorry but there's too much evidence that he's part of it .
If Trump isnt guilty he is at the very least complicet.
Yeah that's why he brought up Epstein and his island when nobody was talking about it?
Why did he ban Epstein from Mar-a-lago? Stiffed him on the bill?
Why didn't anyone release kompromat video of Trump shagging a 16-year old girl during his campaigns if it exists? Because it would somehow bring down everyone else? Then what good is blackmail that you can never use??
Not to mention that Prince Andrew was destroyed by selective release of Epstein blackmail, a photo with Virginia Guiffre. If such a photo of Trump exists, then where is it?
Why try to assassinate Trump twice if they could just sink him with one file?
I recall that when Epstein was being prosecuted, Trump was one of the main people helping by providing information.
Additionally, if Trump was involved we'd have known during 2016 when they were spying on him. We'd have known when the Biden administration was doing everything they could to lock him up. You can be disappointed in Trumps recent pro Israel actions, but saying he was part of the Epstein clientele is next level retardation.
It's not Occam's Razor if it doesn't make sense. Trump was almost killed, twice, a year ago. No, it wasn't staged.
Occam's Razor is that they stiffarmed Trump, Patel, and Bongino with something that isn't an Epstein file.
Let's say you're correct. He's now claiming that OBAMA wrote the Epstein Files. Why is he pre-emptively trying to discredit them?
Anything to avoid revealing that Israel ran the op, obviously.
Or maybe he has more selfish motives. Maybe it's him. Maybe he'll lose a few Republican Congressmen - the Democrats will refuse to resign because Blumpfff wrote the files. Maybe Sheldon Adelson is there and his wife called Trump and said that she didn't bribe him $100 million to ruin his rep. Who knows?
I hate that he has us wondering about such tawdry things, one year after a bullet made him a hero of legend.
Brain dead take
Guy had been convicted a decade earlier. Trump brought it up because Clinton was associated with Epstein, and he suggested that he was doing more than just be associated, which we now hear is TOTALLY FAKE.
Given that Epstein had no clients and no one else abused kids, doesn't Trump owe Clinton an apology for suggesting that Clinton was raping kids on that island?
They got in a fight that was completely unrelated to the raping.
Not saying that it exists, but maybe because they can get him to do the deep state's bidding (bombing Iran, weaponizing Ukraine) by using it as leverage.
Lol because the deep state didn't throw the kitchen sink at him in his first term and both his reelection campaigns? He was such a bad option for them that they tried to kill him twice.
If you try to throw a guy in prison and then have him killed, you're not going to hold blackmail material in reserve.
Did it? I'm not sure I know the extent of "the kitchen sink" for the deep state. But they certainly didn't bring up his public connection to Epstein. That may be because their own people were vulnerable though.
I posed this question earlier: "Why would you brave 2 impeachments, 91 indictments, 2 assassination attempts, only to give the people doing that everything they wanted?"
Maybe? Everyone needs a Plan B. If they are blackmailing him, it's working very well. If they're not blackmailing him, he's doing the stuff they want (bomb Iran, Ukraine, suppress Epstein List) without being blackmailed. Which is worse?
(I'm not saying there is blackmail material. But I can't help but wonder, and I have been wondering for 1.5 months since his Iran nonsense.)
Again: what is the value of blackmail if you can't use it?
Assuming it exists, who says they're not using it? Why has Trump II been a neocon's fever dream after running against neocons and warmongers? That could explain it.
If I were holding blackmail archives of the deep state, I'd use 91 indictments to prevent Trump from getting elected, but just in case he is elected, then I'd want an ace up my sleeve rather than have him be a truly free agent.
No. If they had blackmail of that caliber, it would be 100% effective in stopping him from taking office. It would make no sense to hold onto it. You don't draw a knife and hold your pistol in reserve.
Glad you have other sources besides the daily beast since they are super left wing and go after anyone right of Mao. Not looking good for him to do this at all. Part of me thinks if he was on the list they would’ve loved nothing more than to put that out but who knows.
If he was on the list, then he'd have turned into the standard tame republicuck after his first inauguration and kept the Overton window moving left, instead of being a loose cannon that ended up moving it right. He probably just has the same Israel-shaped blindspot most boomers do and believes he somehow has a religious obligation to help that nation of antichrists however he can.
Good intentions or not, the evil in his actions is what matters in the end.
Lincoln might have had good intentions, but his actions destroyed the freedom of the states to choose their own destiny, and laid the foundations of the largest bureaucracy in history.
He kind of did. What actually got passed? Just the republicuck neocon agenda. He blamed it, not entirely incorrectly, on admin state subversion - but that's still all he accomplished in his 1st term.
And now in his 2nd, when his first act was to purge that administrative state? He's gone full neocon: running pissrael's military ops, carving big ag and hospitality out of the deportations, and of course covering up Epstein.
His very first statements about the matter as a candidate was that the US should be more balanced towards Israel and the Palestinians. He quickly discovered not to touch the third rail in American politics.
Daily Beast might be left wing , but you can't deny that the video tapes of Epstein saying those things are still real.
I agree with that. And him not releasing the info makes him look worse and worse
Keep the anger burning. We all know the reason (tiny country in the middle east) they won't release it.