The instant you refuse to allow public watching of poll counting is the instant you know it's being abused. There is ZERO reason to not allow poll watching to the public, unless you intend to cheat.
For the purpose of devil's advocate, I could say that cost could be a factor, since the data entry could be additional work.
That said, I think that Taiwan has a pretty good system, where every vote is held up for the watchers to see and the vote announced to be tallied. There's no reason to not do something similar and adding a camera for both a recording and a livestream is virtually nothing in terms of additional cost.
Obviously there are other security & software engineering concerns. But objecting to the basic ask here not justifiable when every single poll worker has a cell phone camera in their pocket.
It's kind of absurd anyway to object to the cost given the billions / trillions at stake in US Federal elections. There are more sophisticated security systems on stupid game microtransactions than on the election, not sure what calculus figures that voting is worse less security than horse armor.
Plus in reality such a system probably saves a shit ton in litigation and fraud.
I don't necessarily disagree, though the standards aren't going to simply be a basic photo, it's going to be proper scanning. And while there are mass scanning options with office-grade printers, it does still take some effort. Personally, I just think the recording is a simpler, easier solution that doesn't impede anyone else nor make addition effort for another. It removes any reason for them to not do the task, while the other idea does at least give them something to bitch about.
You're also not wrong with what's at stake financially so cost shouldn't be as big a concern as it typically is. Sadly though, it will be used to resist legitimate measures to ensure proper vote security.
The problem with Athens is it’s entirely impossible to replicate today. The government would gladly kill every citizen because they know nothing will come of it.
They know it won't stop. But they are doing it to make the trailer park and the retirement homes think they are doing something about it. Then when everyone gets tired everything repeats.
They do the same thing with legislation. They promised to pass some groundbreaking tax legislation but "we need the house and the senate to do it." Then they got them. Then they said "we just don't have the votes, we need a supermajority." Then they got very close to one. Then they said "ohh geez you know we still don't have enough votes. And we have other things going on so we'll circle back to this at some point."
Then voters got pissed with them. Then Dems took the house, senate and presidency with Obama. Then the GOP started promising things they knew they couldn't (or didn't want to) deliver all over again.
He's definitely going to flip a blue state that the Democrats are expecting. I've said before that I expect one, maybe two, of these states to flip: Virginia, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Maine, New Mexico. And in such a case, since the Democrats aren't planning to use fraud to flip these states, they won't be prepared for the flip.
I think that Georgia and North Carolina are basically locked down right now. Barring something properly crazy, he's also very likely to win Arizona and Nevada. If he so much as wins 3 electoral votes in Maine, and looses Pennsylvania, Michigan, Minnesota, Virginia, and Wisconsin, he'd still win the electoral college. His lead in Arizona may be around 5 points, so that's asking a lot for Maricopa if you're a fraudster. Nevada is a likely win for Trump, as everyone agrees he's already polling around +2-3. And there's still a likelihood for Trump to have another +2 from polling errors (really, just Trump supporters not talking to pollsters). When you look at it that way, no one's really focusing on Maine, but Trump's guaranteed to win at least one electoral vote there, and that would put him in the margin of error for those last two electoral votes.
Imagine if the Dems blew millions of dollars fraud operations in Pennsylvania, Virginia, Michigan, Georgia, and Minnesota; all for it to be useless because they didn't predict Maine was a battleground state.
The Democrats are deluding themselves into thinking that Georgia and North Carolina are well within their grasp. There's still some idiots talking about Ohio and Florida! It's not gonna happen. Trump has a better chance of taking New Mexico, than Harris has in Florida; and Trump has a better chance taking New Jersey than Harris has in Ohio.
Well, until Joy Reid looses her shit, starts screaming "CUT DOWN THE TALL TREES" over her television show, and all our Leftist friends grab machetes. But, it will be really funny to laugh at their delusion until then.
If the Democrats go with "It was Trump who was committing voter fraud all along! The election was stolen!", will all of your leftist friends go with the narrative, or just most of them?
The instant you refuse to allow public watching of poll counting is the instant you know it's being abused. There is ZERO reason to not allow poll watching to the public, unless you intend to cheat.
Additionally there's zero reason why every ballot should not be photographed, recorded, and independently auditable to anyone.
For the purpose of devil's advocate, I could say that cost could be a factor, since the data entry could be additional work.
That said, I think that Taiwan has a pretty good system, where every vote is held up for the watchers to see and the vote announced to be tallied. There's no reason to not do something similar and adding a camera for both a recording and a livestream is virtually nothing in terms of additional cost.
Sure, acknowledge that. At the same time:
Obviously there are other security & software engineering concerns. But objecting to the basic ask here not justifiable when every single poll worker has a cell phone camera in their pocket.
It's kind of absurd anyway to object to the cost given the billions / trillions at stake in US Federal elections. There are more sophisticated security systems on stupid game microtransactions than on the election, not sure what calculus figures that voting is worse less security than horse armor.
Plus in reality such a system probably saves a shit ton in litigation and fraud.
I don't necessarily disagree, though the standards aren't going to simply be a basic photo, it's going to be proper scanning. And while there are mass scanning options with office-grade printers, it does still take some effort. Personally, I just think the recording is a simpler, easier solution that doesn't impede anyone else nor make addition effort for another. It removes any reason for them to not do the task, while the other idea does at least give them something to bitch about.
You're also not wrong with what's at stake financially so cost shouldn't be as big a concern as it typically is. Sadly though, it will be used to resist legitimate measures to ensure proper vote security.
Remember the battle of Athens, Tennessee. They showed the path to victory.
The problem with Athens is it’s entirely impossible to replicate today. The government would gladly kill every citizen because they know nothing will come of it.
we're going to need a lot more M1 Garands
As someone who lives close by you can shoot election cheaters.
Lol gopcucks still think sueing will stop the steal
They know it won't stop. But they are doing it to make the trailer park and the retirement homes think they are doing something about it. Then when everyone gets tired everything repeats.
They do the same thing with legislation. They promised to pass some groundbreaking tax legislation but "we need the house and the senate to do it." Then they got them. Then they said "we just don't have the votes, we need a supermajority." Then they got very close to one. Then they said "ohh geez you know we still don't have enough votes. And we have other things going on so we'll circle back to this at some point."
Then voters got pissed with them. Then Dems took the house, senate and presidency with Obama. Then the GOP started promising things they knew they couldn't (or didn't want to) deliver all over again.
Maybe. Or maybe they decided to do this in advance, and only announced that they would at the last minute so that it would be too late to stop them…
At least the (usually) useless GOP is pretending to do something before the election instead of waiting until days after.
Have them arrested for blatantly breaking the law. If that means other counties’ sheriffs than so be it.
Those counties ballots should all be considered null and void
You can't vote your way out of this.
Fuckin' Fulton County. Imagine my shock.
That's why I feel like Trump is going to win with some surprise like VA that puts him over despite the cheating.
Then Fulton and Wayne and Maricopa are going to be like "oh shit".
He's definitely going to flip a blue state that the Democrats are expecting. I've said before that I expect one, maybe two, of these states to flip: Virginia, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Maine, New Mexico. And in such a case, since the Democrats aren't planning to use fraud to flip these states, they won't be prepared for the flip.
I think that Georgia and North Carolina are basically locked down right now. Barring something properly crazy, he's also very likely to win Arizona and Nevada. If he so much as wins 3 electoral votes in Maine, and looses Pennsylvania, Michigan, Minnesota, Virginia, and Wisconsin, he'd still win the electoral college. His lead in Arizona may be around 5 points, so that's asking a lot for Maricopa if you're a fraudster. Nevada is a likely win for Trump, as everyone agrees he's already polling around +2-3. And there's still a likelihood for Trump to have another +2 from polling errors (really, just Trump supporters not talking to pollsters). When you look at it that way, no one's really focusing on Maine, but Trump's guaranteed to win at least one electoral vote there, and that would put him in the margin of error for those last two electoral votes.
Imagine if the Dems blew millions of dollars fraud operations in Pennsylvania, Virginia, Michigan, Georgia, and Minnesota; all for it to be useless because they didn't predict Maine was a battleground state.
The Democrats are deluding themselves into thinking that Georgia and North Carolina are well within their grasp. There's still some idiots talking about Ohio and Florida! It's not gonna happen. Trump has a better chance of taking New Mexico, than Harris has in Florida; and Trump has a better chance taking New Jersey than Harris has in Ohio.
I have friends in Orlando who don't understand that.
Yeah, it's gonna be great.
Well, until Joy Reid looses her shit, starts screaming "CUT DOWN THE TALL TREES" over her television show, and all our Leftist friends grab machetes. But, it will be really funny to laugh at their delusion until then.
If the Democrats go with "It was Trump who was committing voter fraud all along! The election was stolen!", will all of your leftist friends go with the narrative, or just most of them?
They will protest in the streets and leave the red areas alone.
In a normal world the media would be covering this with a fine comb
Fun fact. The legal penalty for treason is death.
Death.