It can be useful to strategically pretend to be shocked and disgusted, because normal people legitimately are shocked and disgusted.
If for example a coworker you don't like says something like "too bad he missed" it may behoove you to act "shocked and disgusted" in front of HR who (even if they too are sad he missed) now will probably be obligated to take "glorification of violence" much more seriously than two weeks ago now that first blood has been drawn.
Think of today as 9/14/2001: tenured university professors could say "the US deserved it" in the right company, but otherwise that was a good way to get into a confrontation. But this is a limited time offer that won't last forever.
Yep, this is what a lot of us are doing, to be honest. We're using the left's tactics against them. Because do you know what gets corporations to do something about piece of shit figures?
You pretend to be outraged and tell the corporation how dare they hire employees that think like this and do they support having these kinds of people on their staff, etc.
We're simply using their rhetoric against them. It's been working, so keep fucking doing it.
Basically you can appeal to the moderates by pretending outrage like that ebcause what decent human being wouldn't be against political violence?
It helps our cause, but appeals to the normie sense of morality, the same way the left fooled normies into supporting far left LGBTBBQ idpol trash.
Honestly, I think more than a few of the proper rightists are feigning outrage at the moment.
I think some are genuinely shocked because, well, holy shit that was close; but I think most are expressing outrage to teach normies that "Hey, saying the president should be murdered is wrong".
Which, because of the well-poisoning, a bunch thought was okay.
If for example a coworker you don't like says something like "too bad he missed" it may behoove you to act "shocked and disgusted" in front of HR who (even if they too are sad he missed) now will probably be obligated to take "glorification of violence" much more seriously than two weeks ago now that first blood has been drawn.
Maybe it's me just being a cuck, but I don't like screwing over co-workers even for 'bad opinions'.
The following is definitely me being a cuck: I actually feel sorry for people who want DJT dead. They've been so brainwashed that they think Donald Trump is the cause of their problems. I saw a video of a middle-aged, woman at a cash register being confronted over opinions online. A woman who was obviously poor and miserable. Should she lose her job, and what little she has, because she believed the media?
The Inquisition always attempted persuasio before relaxatio.
It's a tactical matter whether or not you wish to employ the strategy against any given person. I probably wouldn't do it to someone I otherwise liked and who I didn't think would do the same thing to me.
That said, at a higher level I think society has gotten too casual in its use of "war verbiage" in politics. OP is right that "war is a continuation of politics by other means", so I would think then that unless you are prepared to go to war you wouldn't want to speak of existential threats, and heavily discourage people from speaking in such terms.
You could see (and I commented on several times at the time) in the aftermath of the 2020 election the same sort of "war verbiage" (eg. "if we let this election fraud stand we don't have a country any more"), and I said at the time (before 1/6) "these people saying these things are playing a dangerous game, because you risk people taking them seriously and taking them to their logical conclusions. So if you say them then you'd better really believe them, because some people will." And lo and behold, a lot of the politicians saying those things actually didn't believe them; and a lot of normal people who did are sitting in prison right now as a result when support they probably thought they had completely evaporated.
And it's happening here too: "threat to democracy and our very way of life" taken to its logical conclusion is...what almost happened on Saturday. If you believe that statement is true (which I don't of course), then the only logically consistent critique of the shooter is that he didn't actually wait until Trump won the election. And now a husband and father is dead, as is a 20-year old kid who got whipped into a frenzy by being exposed to it for half his life.
So I would say that if you don't want these things to happen every election you need to tamp down heavily on that sort of verbiage unless you really mean it. Ideally the politicians and press who pushed this would be in prison for instigating it, but I think we both know that won't happen. The next best thing (but far from a perfect solution because it punishes normal people) is for there to be consequences for normal people saying such things the same way there is for joking about bombs in an airport security line.
One of the problems with that line of thinking though is it smacks very heavily of the notion "we'd better not do it because that gives them permission to do it". Which is utter lunacy because they're already doing it and they're going to do it anyways no matter what we do. So we can either match them or be overrun. There is no scenario where if we stop, they also stop. There is they do it and we do it, and they do it and we don't and we lose. Those are the only two options.
My line of thinking is more "smack their instigators down hard (because they just shot one of ours), and only if they've shown they can behave* can there be a mutual de-escalation where if either side instigates they get smacked down."
Unless and until that happens you have to do tit for tat. Arguably smacking them down hard itself is tit for tat since that's what they did for 1/6.
* Which given their total reversal in less than 24 hours is highly improbable.
OP is right that "war is a continuation of politics by other means",
As you no doubt know, that is from Clausewitz, and the proper translation is policy, not politics. And that was obviously never meant as domestic politics, except when war is leveraged to accomplish to accomplish domestic goals - e.g. the French Revolutionary Wars.
I said at the time (before 1/6) "these people saying these things are playing a dangerous game, because you risk people taking them seriously and taking them to their logical conclusions. So if you say them then you'd better really believe them, because some people will." And lo and behold, a lot of the politicians saying those things actually didn't believe them; and a lot of normal people who did are sitting in prison right now as a result when support they probably thought they had completely evaporated.
But that was probably inevitable. Even if they did all believe it, there is nothing that you can do. Not to mention that they act in accordance with their interests and not in accordance with their beliefs, whatever these are.
And it's happening here too: "threat to democracy and our very way of life" taken to its logical conclusion is...what almost happened on Saturday. If you believe that statement is true (which I don't of course), then the only logically consistent critique of the shooter is that he didn't actually wait until Trump won the election.
He'd probably have better security. But point taken. Condemning this attack is incompatible with believing that he is worse than Hitler. There are some people who try to square the circle by arguing that Trump is an existential threat who should be taken out using lawful means, but I can't say it is very persuasive.
Ideally the politicians and press who pushed this would be in prison for instigating it, but I think we both know that won't happen.
It'd also violate Brandenburg vs. Ohio.
The next best thing (but far from a perfect solution because it punishes normal people) is for there to be consequences for normal people saying such things the same way there is for joking about bombs in an airport security line.
But that serves an actual purpose. I would be OK with the cruelty if it actually advanced the good in some meaningful way. How exactly does punishing miserable minimum wage workers, who have no idea about politics beyond what they hear from the lying media, advance the good?.
I guess spreading terror. But will it improve things if people do not feel as comfortable mouthing off about Trump as they are now? I'd say that a lot of pro-Trump sentiment is caused not by the man's virtues, but by the vileness of his opponents.
Acknowledging that Rubio (and approximately 150 million other people) are a better candidate for a Republican VP nomination doesn't make someone a Rubio supporter, you simp. But you know this, since I explained it over and over again to you the last time you went on a simping spree for your kween.
It can be useful to strategically pretend to be shocked and disgusted, because normal people legitimately are shocked and disgusted.
If for example a coworker you don't like says something like "too bad he missed" it may behoove you to act "shocked and disgusted" in front of HR who (even if they too are sad he missed) now will probably be obligated to take "glorification of violence" much more seriously than two weeks ago now that first blood has been drawn.
Think of today as 9/14/2001: tenured university professors could say "the US deserved it" in the right company, but otherwise that was a good way to get into a confrontation. But this is a limited time offer that won't last forever.
Yep, this is what a lot of us are doing, to be honest. We're using the left's tactics against them. Because do you know what gets corporations to do something about piece of shit figures?
You pretend to be outraged and tell the corporation how dare they hire employees that think like this and do they support having these kinds of people on their staff, etc.
We're simply using their rhetoric against them. It's been working, so keep fucking doing it.
Basically you can appeal to the moderates by pretending outrage like that ebcause what decent human being wouldn't be against political violence?
It helps our cause, but appeals to the normie sense of morality, the same way the left fooled normies into supporting far left LGBTBBQ idpol trash.
A fair point.
Honestly, I think more than a few of the proper rightists are feigning outrage at the moment.
I think some are genuinely shocked because, well, holy shit that was close; but I think most are expressing outrage to teach normies that "Hey, saying the president should be murdered is wrong".
Which, because of the well-poisoning, a bunch thought was okay.
Maybe it's me just being a cuck, but I don't like screwing over co-workers even for 'bad opinions'.
The following is definitely me being a cuck: I actually feel sorry for people who want DJT dead. They've been so brainwashed that they think Donald Trump is the cause of their problems. I saw a video of a middle-aged, woman at a cash register being confronted over opinions online. A woman who was obviously poor and miserable. Should she lose her job, and what little she has, because she believed the media?
The Inquisition always attempted persuasio before relaxatio.
Your coworker won't hesitate to do it against you when they find out your true beliefs bud.
I'm not exactly hiding either my support for Trump or that for the local "far-right" party.
Normies prize their relations over politics. Or they wouldn't be normies.
Maybe, but HR doesn't have that distinction.
It's a tactical matter whether or not you wish to employ the strategy against any given person. I probably wouldn't do it to someone I otherwise liked and who I didn't think would do the same thing to me.
That said, at a higher level I think society has gotten too casual in its use of "war verbiage" in politics. OP is right that "war is a continuation of politics by other means", so I would think then that unless you are prepared to go to war you wouldn't want to speak of existential threats, and heavily discourage people from speaking in such terms.
You could see (and I commented on several times at the time) in the aftermath of the 2020 election the same sort of "war verbiage" (eg. "if we let this election fraud stand we don't have a country any more"), and I said at the time (before 1/6) "these people saying these things are playing a dangerous game, because you risk people taking them seriously and taking them to their logical conclusions. So if you say them then you'd better really believe them, because some people will." And lo and behold, a lot of the politicians saying those things actually didn't believe them; and a lot of normal people who did are sitting in prison right now as a result when support they probably thought they had completely evaporated.
And it's happening here too: "threat to democracy and our very way of life" taken to its logical conclusion is...what almost happened on Saturday. If you believe that statement is true (which I don't of course), then the only logically consistent critique of the shooter is that he didn't actually wait until Trump won the election. And now a husband and father is dead, as is a 20-year old kid who got whipped into a frenzy by being exposed to it for half his life.
So I would say that if you don't want these things to happen every election you need to tamp down heavily on that sort of verbiage unless you really mean it. Ideally the politicians and press who pushed this would be in prison for instigating it, but I think we both know that won't happen. The next best thing (but far from a perfect solution because it punishes normal people) is for there to be consequences for normal people saying such things the same way there is for joking about bombs in an airport security line.
One of the problems with that line of thinking though is it smacks very heavily of the notion "we'd better not do it because that gives them permission to do it". Which is utter lunacy because they're already doing it and they're going to do it anyways no matter what we do. So we can either match them or be overrun. There is no scenario where if we stop, they also stop. There is they do it and we do it, and they do it and we don't and we lose. Those are the only two options.
My line of thinking is more "smack their instigators down hard (because they just shot one of ours), and only if they've shown they can behave* can there be a mutual de-escalation where if either side instigates they get smacked down."
Unless and until that happens you have to do tit for tat. Arguably smacking them down hard itself is tit for tat since that's what they did for 1/6.
* Which given their total reversal in less than 24 hours is highly improbable.
As you no doubt know, that is from Clausewitz, and the proper translation is policy, not politics. And that was obviously never meant as domestic politics, except when war is leveraged to accomplish to accomplish domestic goals - e.g. the French Revolutionary Wars.
But that was probably inevitable. Even if they did all believe it, there is nothing that you can do. Not to mention that they act in accordance with their interests and not in accordance with their beliefs, whatever these are.
He'd probably have better security. But point taken. Condemning this attack is incompatible with believing that he is worse than Hitler. There are some people who try to square the circle by arguing that Trump is an existential threat who should be taken out using lawful means, but I can't say it is very persuasive.
It'd also violate Brandenburg vs. Ohio.
But that serves an actual purpose. I would be OK with the cruelty if it actually advanced the good in some meaningful way. How exactly does punishing miserable minimum wage workers, who have no idea about politics beyond what they hear from the lying media, advance the good?.
I guess spreading terror. But will it improve things if people do not feel as comfortable mouthing off about Trump as they are now? I'd say that a lot of pro-Trump sentiment is caused not by the man's virtues, but by the vileness of his opponents.
I dispute your translation. Policies don’t have means. There are ends.
I do too, but that doesn't mean that I don't also recognize that they are a threat to me.
She'll learn to #DoBetter next time.
That goes without saying. How is your kween Tulsi doing these days?
Oh, you're that loony tune? I hope you're not too heartbroken that your neocon hero Marco Rubio was rejected for VP.
Acknowledging that Rubio (and approximately 150 million other people) are a better candidate for a Republican VP nomination doesn't make someone a Rubio supporter, you simp. But you know this, since I explained it over and over again to you the last time you went on a simping spree for your kween.