Ohio has some of the toughest election integrity laws in the country. It's how Trump managed to win it fair and square twice despite the establishment claiming it's a "swing state."
There's not a significant amount of voter fraud in Ohio.
I've warned about pushing the anti-abortion shit way too hard. You haven't won that part of the culture war yet.
That being said, I suspect that if anyone is reading the damn amendment it's sketchy as fuck.
Take this line:
"Only allow the State to prohibit an abortion after an unborn child is determined by a pregnant woman's treating physician to be viable and only if the physician does not consider the abortion necessary to protect the pregnant woman's life or health; and"
That first sentence: only allow the state to prohibit an abortion, really says a lot. Normally, Leftists don't even understand the concept of a negative right, but here we see them very clearly making a restriction on the state to make laws to prevent abortions, operating under the assumption that a right to an abortion is effectively a natural right.
Not only that, it makes the "physician" the sole decision-maker on abortion. I don't know how we are determining who the 'physician' is actually supposed to be, or what their relationship with the patient is supposed to be, so this effectively means abortion doctor shopping.
"Always allow an unborn child to be aborted at any stage of pregnancy, regardless of viability if, in the treating physician's determination, the abortion is necessary to protect the pregnant woman's life of health."
This last line is what's probably going to kill it for most people. "At any stage of pregnancy regardless of viability". Again, this isn't even about a woman's choice. The doctor has full say on killing the kid because it's necessary to protect "health". We've already seen what the Left has done with the word "harm", and we've already established that somehow racism is a public health crisis; so we know "health" is going to be badly abused here too.
Ohioan here. Guarantee it would fail by a wide margin if everyone read and understood it. But people are ignorant and retarded so it is going to be close. Not feeling great about it but we have a chance.
I'm pretty impressed how fucking stupid normie Republicans are. I genuinely hate them.
Yeah, I figured every Democrat would vote one way, but it's always the Republicans who watch Sean Hannity and think George Bush was a good president that will always be my enemy.
I do not believe abortion is a federal right, nor do I think the federal government or SCOTUS should magic up a right to abortion. I am thrilled about Dobbs.
I am in favor of states determining abortion rules.
I am in favor of limits, but not bans, on abortion.
I both support Dobbs and would vote against an abortion ban.
I don't think my viewpoint is uncommon, and that seems supported by what's happened across the country.
tl;dr, get the federal government out of abortion, limits not bans.
Many Americans don't know how unusual it is for courts to make laws on abortion. Dobbs just changes American constitutional law to be the same as it is elsewhere in the world. Just like voter ID is the norm basically everywhere. The CNN drones live in their own universe.
And I fully agree with you on the substance of abortion. You're not expressing a view on this ballot measure, but I think this is wrong - because it will result in judges deciding matters of abortion, and that will lead to sweeping as opposed to finely tuned law.
Many Americans don't know how unusual it is for courts to make laws on abortion. Dobbs just changes American constitutional law to be the same as it is elsewhere in the world. Just like voter ID is the norm basically everywhere. The CNN drones live in their own universe.
Most Americans are very insular in regards to politics (and rationally so). My best debating tactic when it comes to Voter ID (and a surprising number of other issues) is to yack about how much more fair and just European laws are, get agreement, talk about how we should aim to emulate the French, the Dutch, etc., get agreement, and then break out voter ID issue.
And I fully agree with you on the substance of abortion. You're not expressing a view on this ballot measure, but I think this is wrong - because it will result in judges deciding matters of abortion, and that will lead to sweeping as opposed to finely tuned law.
Yeah, I didn't comment on the ballot measure, but I would vote against the measure. I very much believe in the constitution as the Founders saw it -- minimalist.
It amuses me to no end when, mostly Democrats, think it's some huge "gotcha" that states are now deciding, one-by-one, what abortion rules look like. Or how Democrats made such a big deal over multiple rounds of voting for a Speaker of the House.
Guess what--this is EXACTLY what the democratic process should look like. Discussion, debate, voting, and eventual agreement.
Legislating from the bench is one of the greatest evils in America, and I say that whether or not my side or the other side benefits. Laws should be not be made by the courts.
Most Americans are very insular in regards to politics (and rationally so).
Insofar as ordinary people have no influence, yes. But he who knows one country knows no countries.
My best debating tactic when it comes to Voter ID (and a surprising number of other issues) is to yack about how much more fair and just European laws are, get agreement, talk about how we should aim to emulate the French, the Dutch, etc., get agreement, and then break out voter ID issue.
Nice trick. I've asked many Americans why voter ID is so racist, and why it's not racist in Europe. Usual response is Republicans bad and that the 'intent' of the law is so blacks can't vote.
I've heard that at least some US states give ID free of charge. Did you know we have to pay for it? They have no mercy for people who don't have the money. So the "far-right" Republicans are actually nicer to the poor and to blacks who is the exact same as 'the poor'.
It amuses me to no end when, mostly Democrats, think it's some huge "gotcha" that states are now deciding, one-by-one, what abortion rules look like.
This idea that Donald Trump doesn't know what he's doing, he knows exactly what he's doing. He wants to make America more like the rest of the world. We don't want to be like the rest of the world!
Or how Democrats made such a big deal over multiple rounds of voting for a Speaker of the House.
Kevin McCarthy is a fascist MAGAt and it's a tragedy that fascist MAGAt was removed by even more fascist Nazis.
Legislating from the bench is one of the greatest evils in America, and I say that whether or not my side or the other side benefits. Laws should be not be made by the courts.
Agreed, and very consistent. The rule of law is more important than any political position, though I think it's already lost.
I am in favor of limits, but not bans, on abortion.
You're not expressing a view on this ballot measure
In a roundabout way they are though. This measure gives effectively a blank check so long as you can find a doctor to sign off on it. And trust me there will be plenty abortion activist doctors lining up to do so.
I think you're right, but I can easily see someone who says "abortion is ok but with restrictions" going either way on this. That's why these ballot measures have been going badly even in very red states. If abortion being legal is more important to you than the restrictions, you might go a yes on them.
The only thing that will stop these women from sacrificing their children to Moloch legally is "getting rid" of abortion centers and those demon "doctors" by any means necessary.
The voters won't but the fraudsters stuffing the ballot boxes will.
Ohio has some of the toughest election integrity laws in the country. It's how Trump managed to win it fair and square twice despite the establishment claiming it's a "swing state."
You can track your ballot from the time it get's picked up. There's a live database to see where it's gone.
A lot of people will just attribute any election result they don't like to 'fraud'.
Trump lost DC? WRONG! It was all fraud, he actually won by a landslide.
If Trump won in DC I'd immediately be suspicious of him
#NotMyPresident
There's not a significant amount of voter fraud in Ohio.
I've warned about pushing the anti-abortion shit way too hard. You haven't won that part of the culture war yet.
That being said, I suspect that if anyone is reading the damn amendment it's sketchy as fuck.
Take this line:
That first sentence: only allow the state to prohibit an abortion, really says a lot. Normally, Leftists don't even understand the concept of a negative right, but here we see them very clearly making a restriction on the state to make laws to prevent abortions, operating under the assumption that a right to an abortion is effectively a natural right.
Not only that, it makes the "physician" the sole decision-maker on abortion. I don't know how we are determining who the 'physician' is actually supposed to be, or what their relationship with the patient is supposed to be, so this effectively means abortion doctor shopping.
This last line is what's probably going to kill it for most people. "At any stage of pregnancy regardless of viability". Again, this isn't even about a woman's choice. The doctor has full say on killing the kid because it's necessary to protect "health". We've already seen what the Left has done with the word "harm", and we've already established that somehow racism is a public health crisis; so we know "health" is going to be badly abused here too.
Bold of you to assume people won't just vote how the TV tells them to vote.
They might read it when they get to the ballot box...?
Ohioan here. Guarantee it would fail by a wide margin if everyone read and understood it. But people are ignorant and retarded so it is going to be close. Not feeling great about it but we have a chance.
I feel like it might fail, but there does seem to be a lot of confusion. I guess we'll see in a couple hours.
RIP
I'm pretty impressed how fucking stupid normie Republicans are. I genuinely hate them.
Yeah, I figured every Democrat would vote one way, but it's always the Republicans who watch Sean Hannity and think George Bush was a good president that will always be my enemy.
I believe abortion is a moral wrong.
I believe abortion is pragmatically a net good.
I do not believe abortion is a federal right, nor do I think the federal government or SCOTUS should magic up a right to abortion. I am thrilled about Dobbs.
I am in favor of states determining abortion rules.
I am in favor of limits, but not bans, on abortion.
I both support Dobbs and would vote against an abortion ban.
I don't think my viewpoint is uncommon, and that seems supported by what's happened across the country.
tl;dr, get the federal government out of abortion, limits not bans.
Many Americans don't know how unusual it is for courts to make laws on abortion. Dobbs just changes American constitutional law to be the same as it is elsewhere in the world. Just like voter ID is the norm basically everywhere. The CNN drones live in their own universe.
And I fully agree with you on the substance of abortion. You're not expressing a view on this ballot measure, but I think this is wrong - because it will result in judges deciding matters of abortion, and that will lead to sweeping as opposed to finely tuned law.
Most Americans are very insular in regards to politics (and rationally so). My best debating tactic when it comes to Voter ID (and a surprising number of other issues) is to yack about how much more fair and just European laws are, get agreement, talk about how we should aim to emulate the French, the Dutch, etc., get agreement, and then break out voter ID issue.
Yeah, I didn't comment on the ballot measure, but I would vote against the measure. I very much believe in the constitution as the Founders saw it -- minimalist.
It amuses me to no end when, mostly Democrats, think it's some huge "gotcha" that states are now deciding, one-by-one, what abortion rules look like. Or how Democrats made such a big deal over multiple rounds of voting for a Speaker of the House.
Guess what--this is EXACTLY what the democratic process should look like. Discussion, debate, voting, and eventual agreement.
Legislating from the bench is one of the greatest evils in America, and I say that whether or not my side or the other side benefits. Laws should be not be made by the courts.
Insofar as ordinary people have no influence, yes. But he who knows one country knows no countries.
Nice trick. I've asked many Americans why voter ID is so racist, and why it's not racist in Europe. Usual response is Republicans bad and that the 'intent' of the law is so blacks can't vote.
I've heard that at least some US states give ID free of charge. Did you know we have to pay for it? They have no mercy for people who don't have the money. So the "far-right" Republicans are actually nicer to the poor and to blacks who is the exact same as 'the poor'.
This idea that Donald Trump doesn't know what he's doing, he knows exactly what he's doing. He wants to make America more like the rest of the world. We don't want to be like the rest of the world!
Kevin McCarthy is a fascist MAGAt and it's a tragedy that fascist MAGAt was removed by even more fascist Nazis.
Agreed, and very consistent. The rule of law is more important than any political position, though I think it's already lost.
In a roundabout way they are though. This measure gives effectively a blank check so long as you can find a doctor to sign off on it. And trust me there will be plenty abortion activist doctors lining up to do so.
I think you're right, but I can easily see someone who says "abortion is ok but with restrictions" going either way on this. That's why these ballot measures have been going badly even in very red states. If abortion being legal is more important to you than the restrictions, you might go a yes on them.
Backing abortion rights is one thing, but it should not be codified in the Constitution.
The only thing that will stop these women from sacrificing their children to Moloch legally is "getting rid" of abortion centers and those demon "doctors" by any means necessary.