There's the practical side, not incentivizing liars who regret having sex with that dude, and there's also the principled side: even if they're telling the truth, the baby didn't rape them.
Because we realized your side are liars making disingenuous arguments to win at any cost in the war against humanity. You never wanted "safe, legal, and rare" - those were just buzzwords on the road to on-demand child sacrifice. Even now, the new Oklahoma ban on abortion includes exceptions for rape. Your article doesn't mention that one. Nothing you claim to argue should ever be believed. Frankly they gave you too much. You don't appreciate any compromise, so why should any be given? If leftists want a Social Justice War, that's what they'll get.
The same pattern is shaping up in the gun rights debate. Everyone knows the only way to end gun violence would be to magically eliminate all guns. That won't happen, but leftists think they can reach their utopia by making incremental changes in the name of "common sense gun control" bills that do nothing except make people feel good. Everything leftists do is a scheme to push society towards their vision. Many of us on the side of more gun rights / less restrictions would have been perfectly willing to entertain a few more restrictions in the past, believing your sweet lies that we can unite on common sense solutions. Now that we know you're nothing but tools of a tyrannical regime that will say anything to keep power, there can be no compromise and I'm for individuals owning atomic bombs.
I just said in my other comment, you can't compromise with someone who is not operating in good faith. If they're not being honest about their goals, you can't have an honest compromise either. They want it all.
The only way to entirely eliminate guns would be to re-write the rules of chemistry so stored energy cannot be rapidly released to accelerate a projectile, which would also eliminate automobiles, electricity, and probably all life in the universe, as life itself depends on stored and released energies, and after that it's simply a question of scale.
Homemade weapons are only relevant as a hobby as long as someone, somewhere is manufacturing. Analogy: You could make your own opiates, but no one is. Much easier to buy from the inevitable black market. That's what they do in every country that has official gun prohibition and yet still sees gun violence.
To me, indulging their fantasies just results in things like 3D printers being banned with no reason. For most people, it's easier to understand that even though drugs and slavery are illegal, they still happen.
Not 99% of the time, no. Disingenuous, unmisseducated bastards.
Even plenty of pro-life people are willing to throw these assholes a bone and let them have unlimited abortions for any reason, up to a point. But that's not enough for the activists, who want abortion up to and sometimes past birth.
As someone who isn't even super strongly on any side here, I'm so fucking tired of the compromising. You can't compromise, when one side is lying about their goals. If you give them an inch, they take a mile. If they were operating in good faith, compromise would be grand. Find something everyone can live with (so to speak), and that's great. But the activists and legislators are lying through their teeth, and will never stop. On general principle, you can't compromise with that, or you'll eventually lose everything.
Abortion opponents no longer make an exception for rape because they have largely conceded the point on the morning after pill so no exception is required.
First, you define rape. Over the last 5-10 years, large parts of the left has clearly been treating rape as "anything a woman doesn't like", so any rape exception would be tantamount to just saying at-will abortion.
One of the last conversations I had with my late grandfather was during the summer of Floyd riots. I remember he said "What do they want? If we give them that it will be just like every time before they aren't happy they will just change to wanting something else." So, essentially I give up on any attempts at middle ground.
I have no problems at all with giving some, but I'm tired of those that just take and give nothing in return and can't even give me the decency of arguing in good faith. If anything that may apply to all of my life now, people that have earned my trust by not being leeches, liars, etc. I'll basically do anything for. Everyone else can piss off. No bleeding heart for random idiots and their sob stories.
There has never been a principled stand that "abortion is murder, unless you were raped, in which case follow-on murder is totally justifiable." Some people think of abortion exceptions as a middle ground, but that is a mistake in my view.
Isnt most people's gripe against abortion is with late term abortion? Isnt that why states like Texas did the after 6 weeks ban based on the finding that the child's heart beat is detected usually after 6 weeks? Also there were already medical exceptions to late term abortions, most anti-abortion people are not as cruel as the leftist paints them to be.
I would make exceptions for rape, but much like they did in 2016, they've become so horrible and vitriolic in their attacks and rhetoric, I'd rather nuke the entire debate than give them an inch.
If you believe the concept of life begins at conception how it happened isn't pertinent
Only if your morality is narrowly applied and black and white. A rape baby is a product of sin and crime and is morally tainted by it. Whether you feel that makes it okay to abort is a different moral question from aborting a consensual baby and I think it's mostly religious and moral hardliners that want a woman to carry a baby from a "rape rape" as Whoopi would say.
To give you an abstract example of this, many of the people who profited from Bernie Madoff had to give back their profits. Why? The money didn't commit any crime. It's not a crime to take profits. It's because when you look at the larger situation it's not moral to have some lucky or crafty people get a windfall at the expense of others involved in the same scam.
You may believe people who guessed Madoff was a scammer and pulled out just in time deserve that money, but most people don't.
The circumstances of conception do not change biological truth. Saying a rape baby is tainted makes as much sense as saying an albino is magical.
Now if you apply some mystical unscientific thinking or weird morality to the subject, yes you could say that a rape baby is tainted and that it's morally ok to murder someone who is the product of rape at any age, be it 2 months, 2 years, or 20 years old. But I have a feeling you would say that's unreasonable.
It's got rapist DNA. What, you think people are blank slates? We're all products of our parentage.
But I was only saying that even if to you the rape baby is innocent, in the broader picture as a result of crime and sin it's not, which is why I said you must have a narrow morality.
I take it you feel the people who made bank off Madoff should have been able to keep the money. Is that not so?
There's the practical side, not incentivizing liars who regret having sex with that dude, and there's also the principled side: even if they're telling the truth, the baby didn't rape them.
Because we realized your side are liars making disingenuous arguments to win at any cost in the war against humanity. You never wanted "safe, legal, and rare" - those were just buzzwords on the road to on-demand child sacrifice. Even now, the new Oklahoma ban on abortion includes exceptions for rape. Your article doesn't mention that one. Nothing you claim to argue should ever be believed. Frankly they gave you too much. You don't appreciate any compromise, so why should any be given? If leftists want a Social Justice War, that's what they'll get.
The same pattern is shaping up in the gun rights debate. Everyone knows the only way to end gun violence would be to magically eliminate all guns. That won't happen, but leftists think they can reach their utopia by making incremental changes in the name of "common sense gun control" bills that do nothing except make people feel good. Everything leftists do is a scheme to push society towards their vision. Many of us on the side of more gun rights / less restrictions would have been perfectly willing to entertain a few more restrictions in the past, believing your sweet lies that we can unite on common sense solutions. Now that we know you're nothing but tools of a tyrannical regime that will say anything to keep power, there can be no compromise and I'm for individuals owning atomic bombs.
Well said, and spot on.
I just said in my other comment, you can't compromise with someone who is not operating in good faith. If they're not being honest about their goals, you can't have an honest compromise either. They want it all.
This is the only thing I disagree with since all you need is some pipe to make a slam fire shotgun. We have seen countless examples of people making the most rudimentary firearms from shit that you can get at your hardware store.
The only way to entirely eliminate guns would be to re-write the rules of chemistry so stored energy cannot be rapidly released to accelerate a projectile, which would also eliminate automobiles, electricity, and probably all life in the universe, as life itself depends on stored and released energies, and after that it's simply a question of scale.
Seriously, they can't keep weapons out of the hands of people in a prison and, in prison, they look in your ass.
That shotgun is a neat concept. Also, Brandon Herrera is awesome.
Speaking of homemade guns, have you seen the Smith and Methson?
Homemade weapons are only relevant as a hobby as long as someone, somewhere is manufacturing. Analogy: You could make your own opiates, but no one is. Much easier to buy from the inevitable black market. That's what they do in every country that has official gun prohibition and yet still sees gun violence.
To me, indulging their fantasies just results in things like 3D printers being banned with no reason. For most people, it's easier to understand that even though drugs and slavery are illegal, they still happen.
Not 99% of the time, no. Disingenuous,
unmisseducated bastards.Even plenty of pro-life people are willing to throw these assholes a bone and let them have unlimited abortions for any reason, up to a point. But that's not enough for the activists, who want abortion up to and sometimes past birth.
As someone who isn't even super strongly on any side here, I'm so fucking tired of the compromising. You can't compromise, when one side is lying about their goals. If you give them an inch, they take a mile. If they were operating in good faith, compromise would be grand. Find something everyone can live with (so to speak), and that's great. But the activists and legislators are lying through their teeth, and will never stop. On general principle, you can't compromise with that, or you'll eventually lose everything.
Abortion opponents no longer make an exception for rape because they have largely conceded the point on the morning after pill so no exception is required.
First, you define rape. Over the last 5-10 years, large parts of the left has clearly been treating rape as "anything a woman doesn't like", so any rape exception would be tantamount to just saying at-will abortion.
Because the morning after pill exists.
To try and bait an 'Ok, but can we at least have an exception for rape victims?' negotiation.
If leftists were half as concerned about rape as they pretend to be, they would advocate for constitutional carry.
And stop raping people.
Because killing a baby for something a different person did is morally repulsive.
About as repulsive as furthering the genes of a rapist.
Or forcing someome to incubate another human against their will.
There is no easy answer for that.
One of the last conversations I had with my late grandfather was during the summer of Floyd riots. I remember he said "What do they want? If we give them that it will be just like every time before they aren't happy they will just change to wanting something else." So, essentially I give up on any attempts at middle ground.
I have no problems at all with giving some, but I'm tired of those that just take and give nothing in return and can't even give me the decency of arguing in good faith. If anything that may apply to all of my life now, people that have earned my trust by not being leeches, liars, etc. I'll basically do anything for. Everyone else can piss off. No bleeding heart for random idiots and their sob stories.
Because a baby shouldnt be punished for the crimes of either of its parents.
And the fact that abortion in the case of rape and all the other exceptions they used to normalize abortion are so rare as to be nearly non-existent.
There has never been a principled stand that "abortion is murder, unless you were raped, in which case follow-on murder is totally justifiable." Some people think of abortion exceptions as a middle ground, but that is a mistake in my view.
Isnt most people's gripe against abortion is with late term abortion? Isnt that why states like Texas did the after 6 weeks ban based on the finding that the child's heart beat is detected usually after 6 weeks? Also there were already medical exceptions to late term abortions, most anti-abortion people are not as cruel as the leftist paints them to be.
I would make exceptions for rape, but much like they did in 2016, they've become so horrible and vitriolic in their attacks and rhetoric, I'd rather nuke the entire debate than give them an inch.
Only if your morality is narrowly applied and black and white. A rape baby is a product of sin and crime and is morally tainted by it. Whether you feel that makes it okay to abort is a different moral question from aborting a consensual baby and I think it's mostly religious and moral hardliners that want a woman to carry a baby from a "rape rape" as Whoopi would say.
To give you an abstract example of this, many of the people who profited from Bernie Madoff had to give back their profits. Why? The money didn't commit any crime. It's not a crime to take profits. It's because when you look at the larger situation it's not moral to have some lucky or crafty people get a windfall at the expense of others involved in the same scam.
You may believe people who guessed Madoff was a scammer and pulled out just in time deserve that money, but most people don't.
The circumstances of conception do not change biological truth. Saying a rape baby is tainted makes as much sense as saying an albino is magical.
Now if you apply some mystical unscientific thinking or weird morality to the subject, yes you could say that a rape baby is tainted and that it's morally ok to murder someone who is the product of rape at any age, be it 2 months, 2 years, or 20 years old. But I have a feeling you would say that's unreasonable.
You read this comment and you thought it was saying money is a baby? Come on, you're not that dumb.
Ok I removed that part since someone else has addressed your odd analogy already. Rest of my comment stands.
Now remove your "odd" analogy to magical albinos. At least my analogy was to something that actually exists.
It's got rapist DNA. What, you think people are blank slates? We're all products of our parentage.
But I was only saying that even if to you the rape baby is innocent, in the broader picture as a result of crime and sin it's not, which is why I said you must have a narrow morality.
I take it you feel the people who made bank off Madoff should have been able to keep the money. Is that not so?
Well Madoff thing is the same principle morally, so...
That it's moral to harm some innocents to make the greater whole less harmed. It's "stupid" because it makes your views look provincial.