I think it's been well been well established at this point that women (as much as women are worth anything in a combat situation) do okay at situations that involve holding steady, but are terrible at anything involving explosive action or quick decision making (or anything where their smaller size and inferior muscle mass are obvious disadvantages).
Bomber Pilot, Copter pilot, sure. There are probably enough capable men that it isn't necessary, but it isn't an explicitly terrible idea like making a woman a fighter pilot is. I'm pretty sure even male fighter pilots have to have excellent cardiovascular health to avoid readout, and they've got bigger hearts that pump more blood, and beat slower at rest.
I'm torn when it comes to women in combat. There's the obvious point that it lowers survivability of troops in general when women are present on the battlefield, but combat training is excellent at promotion of discipline and physical health, something we could all use a bit more of in this day and age. Maybe reserves only?
I'm torn when it comes to women in combat. There's the obvious point that it lowers survivability of troops in general when women are present on the battlefield, but combat training is excellent at promotion of discipline and physical health, something we could all use a bit more of in this day and age. Maybe reserves only?
The armed forces don't exist to promote discipline and physical health. They exist to win wars.
Combat units with women perform worse than units without women, therefore they should not be in combat roles. Let them sign up for a private boot camp if they're seeking discipline and improved physical health.
You're right, of course, but I still feel like the world would be a better place if everyone learned how to fight and got their ass kicked a couple times.
I agree, but it shouldn't be at the expense of tax payers. And let's face it, most women would quit as soon as they get punched once so it would be a huge waste of money.
Doesn't Isreal practice universal conscription (men and women)? Not signing up for a draft, but actually making them serve? There's precedent. And the haters on the Left AND the Right both say Isreal secretly controls everything, so they must have something going on properly to be that successful.
Better for men yes, more important is teaching the values of stoicism, dedication and self restraint with understanding violence. Plenty of men fight and learn nothing from it, there’s a reason every single great warrior society valued stoicism or the equivalent of it (hagakure). Could some women gain from this? Not really, concepts of self sacrifice are completely lost on a sex that’s only value historically has been surviving to breed.
I disagree. On the contrary I think it is more important for women to develop discipline in a focused manner as they seem far less inclined to do so by natural inclination, especially in times of peace. When times are hard women's behavior changes significantly.
The problem is that society stops treating them like adults when times are not hard.
I don't think women learning how to fight would be a good idea at all. They already talk constantly about harming people for existing, don't give them the tools to back up their words.
Not only that, but the idea of women being worth just as much (read: the same) as men goes out the window the second they start dying in the field, or get captured. Sending women into wars when you have an alternative is like going neck first.
I've seen stereotypes of steely resolve and such bullshit, some nonsense about being better at spatial thinking etc, but I'm pretty sure it's just a fem wet dream of superiority.
You can thank Heinlein for the spatial thinking bs. It's not based on science but entered the zeitgeist after he and a bunch of copycats used it as a trope to justify having women in space
Which is funny because spatial thinking seems to be where women struggle the most when driving. If you ever see a car not going with the flow of traffic and kinda sitting in no-man's land being passed on both sides...
...it's usually a woman in my experience. Or someone on the phone. Phones are the worst, too.
I've seen stereotypes of steely resolve and such bullshit
I'm willing to bet that stems from a misreading of a panic response that seems to be more common in women. Everything points to a much higher proportion of women's response to a critical situation is to first just straight up freeze for a few moments, then make the same poorly thought out panic choice someone else might have made immediately, just in a less timely fashion.
It'd be easy to interpret that first part as taking time to calculate a response, if you just ignore the outcomes of the second part being worse not better.
Just look at all the shootings by female cops, waaay too many of them start with them standing around doing nothing whilst their male partner reacts first, then they pull their gun because things got out of hand whilst they did nothing to help the non-lethal response stick, and in the panic turn to lethal force. Or in one tragicomic version, stand around doing nothing, finally decide to take non-lethal action, but panic and accidentally draw and shoot her firearm instead.
It was actually Heinlein that started that particular myth, that women made better pilots than men.
At the time, there might have been a whiff of plausibility to it. Remember, one of the most accomplished (lunatic) test pilots of the time was Hanna Reitsch, who by all accounts was a savant at piloting under extreme conditions (she once flew a helicopter indoors).
I heard it's because they are shorter, and since the heart-brain distance is shorter they can deal with higher G forces.
Haven't confirmed if that's actually true. Though even if it is; not passing out as easily during some manouvers seems to be at best just one of many aspects that makes a pilot good.
Or maybe we have enough pride as a society to tell women No when it comes to places they are not only not capable for, but an active hindrance.
Its been shown time and time again that adding a woman to any squad fucks up cohesion badly, almost out of pure instinct, coupled with the fact that a huge majority of them are fucking their way up the chain, getting pregnant to abuse that loophole, or diversity passed like this woman.
So by allowing them in at all we are saying that Women's Egos are more important than soldiers lives and capabilities.
I'm not necessarily fully against women in the miltary either. Combat? Well depends on the situation. A woman pilot doesn't bug me as much as deployed in the trenches as the way I see it they are less likely to cause issues with fraternization or whatever there.
The big issue here is the pussy pass. She was promoted to a position she had not earned. It's not just a reward for being the best that gets these pilots in the fighters, it's because it takes that high level of ability to do the job. I hadn't actually heard about this crash surprisingly enough, but I did some research and she didn't follow the checklist and made the problem worse. Sure, it's hard to criticize in an emergency, but if you go do any pilot training emergency procedures are drilled in very early. This even applies to puttering around in little single engine prop planes. The whole point is to get you thinking with your head when something goes wrong. Something like an emergency on landing is a time when the plane is very sensitive and freaking and making aggressive inputs is a quick way to spin yourself into the ground. Perhaps the pilot that had earned that spot would have not gotten into this situation to begin with, maybe they would have remembered and followed the checklist (they would have had to memorize this stuff in training), or maybe they also would have crashed and died. There's no way to know. But when you promote someone that didn't earn it, you open up for questions.
I think it's been well been well established at this point that women (as much as women are worth anything in a combat situation) do okay at situations that involve holding steady, but are terrible at anything involving explosive action or quick decision making (or anything where their smaller size and inferior muscle mass are obvious disadvantages).
Bomber Pilot, Copter pilot, sure. There are probably enough capable men that it isn't necessary, but it isn't an explicitly terrible idea like making a woman a fighter pilot is. I'm pretty sure even male fighter pilots have to have excellent cardiovascular health to avoid readout, and they've got bigger hearts that pump more blood, and beat slower at rest.
I'm torn when it comes to women in combat. There's the obvious point that it lowers survivability of troops in general when women are present on the battlefield, but combat training is excellent at promotion of discipline and physical health, something we could all use a bit more of in this day and age. Maybe reserves only?
The armed forces don't exist to promote discipline and physical health. They exist to win wars.
Combat units with women perform worse than units without women, therefore they should not be in combat roles. Let them sign up for a private boot camp if they're seeking discipline and improved physical health.
You're right, of course, but I still feel like the world would be a better place if everyone learned how to fight and got their ass kicked a couple times.
I agree, but it shouldn't be at the expense of tax payers. And let's face it, most women would quit as soon as they get punched once so it would be a huge waste of money.
Doesn't Isreal practice universal conscription (men and women)? Not signing up for a draft, but actually making them serve? There's precedent. And the haters on the Left AND the Right both say Isreal secretly controls everything, so they must have something going on properly to be that successful.
Better for men yes, more important is teaching the values of stoicism, dedication and self restraint with understanding violence. Plenty of men fight and learn nothing from it, there’s a reason every single great warrior society valued stoicism or the equivalent of it (hagakure). Could some women gain from this? Not really, concepts of self sacrifice are completely lost on a sex that’s only value historically has been surviving to breed.
I disagree. On the contrary I think it is more important for women to develop discipline in a focused manner as they seem far less inclined to do so by natural inclination, especially in times of peace. When times are hard women's behavior changes significantly.
The problem is that society stops treating them like adults when times are not hard.
I don't think women learning how to fight would be a good idea at all. They already talk constantly about harming people for existing, don't give them the tools to back up their words.
The most non talky non bitchy women I know are those that trained a martial art with men.
Not only that, but the idea of women being worth just as much (read: the same) as men goes out the window the second they start dying in the field, or get captured. Sending women into wars when you have an alternative is like going neck first.
I've seen stereotypes of steely resolve and such bullshit, some nonsense about being better at spatial thinking etc, but I'm pretty sure it's just a fem wet dream of superiority.
You can thank Heinlein for the spatial thinking bs. It's not based on science but entered the zeitgeist after he and a bunch of copycats used it as a trope to justify having women in space
I haven't read starship troopers in so long I'd plum forgotten
He also said the main reason was the morale boost.
No one ever told my sister that girls are better at spatial thinking when she drives.
Which is funny because spatial thinking seems to be where women struggle the most when driving. If you ever see a car not going with the flow of traffic and kinda sitting in no-man's land being passed on both sides...
...it's usually a woman in my experience. Or someone on the phone. Phones are the worst, too.
Don't make me laugh
You just try and stop me!
I'm willing to bet that stems from a misreading of a panic response that seems to be more common in women. Everything points to a much higher proportion of women's response to a critical situation is to first just straight up freeze for a few moments, then make the same poorly thought out panic choice someone else might have made immediately, just in a less timely fashion.
It'd be easy to interpret that first part as taking time to calculate a response, if you just ignore the outcomes of the second part being worse not better.
Just look at all the shootings by female cops, waaay too many of them start with them standing around doing nothing whilst their male partner reacts first, then they pull their gun because things got out of hand whilst they did nothing to help the non-lethal response stick, and in the panic turn to lethal force. Or in one tragicomic version, stand around doing nothing, finally decide to take non-lethal action, but panic and accidentally draw and shoot her firearm instead.
It was actually Heinlein that started that particular myth, that women made better pilots than men.
At the time, there might have been a whiff of plausibility to it. Remember, one of the most accomplished (lunatic) test pilots of the time was Hanna Reitsch, who by all accounts was a savant at piloting under extreme conditions (she once flew a helicopter indoors).
Several times I believe, in a packed venue no less.
There's also the rumor that she once flew a modified V-1 to settle some concerns about its stability.
I heard it's because they are shorter, and since the heart-brain distance is shorter they can deal with higher G forces.
Haven't confirmed if that's actually true. Though even if it is; not passing out as easily during some manouvers seems to be at best just one of many aspects that makes a pilot good.
If that's the case that sounds like an argument for shorter male fighter pilots.
Or maybe we have enough pride as a society to tell women No when it comes to places they are not only not capable for, but an active hindrance.
Its been shown time and time again that adding a woman to any squad fucks up cohesion badly, almost out of pure instinct, coupled with the fact that a huge majority of them are fucking their way up the chain, getting pregnant to abuse that loophole, or diversity passed like this woman.
So by allowing them in at all we are saying that Women's Egos are more important than soldiers lives and capabilities.
I'm not necessarily fully against women in the miltary either. Combat? Well depends on the situation. A woman pilot doesn't bug me as much as deployed in the trenches as the way I see it they are less likely to cause issues with fraternization or whatever there.
The big issue here is the pussy pass. She was promoted to a position she had not earned. It's not just a reward for being the best that gets these pilots in the fighters, it's because it takes that high level of ability to do the job. I hadn't actually heard about this crash surprisingly enough, but I did some research and she didn't follow the checklist and made the problem worse. Sure, it's hard to criticize in an emergency, but if you go do any pilot training emergency procedures are drilled in very early. This even applies to puttering around in little single engine prop planes. The whole point is to get you thinking with your head when something goes wrong. Something like an emergency on landing is a time when the plane is very sensitive and freaking and making aggressive inputs is a quick way to spin yourself into the ground. Perhaps the pilot that had earned that spot would have not gotten into this situation to begin with, maybe they would have remembered and followed the checklist (they would have had to memorize this stuff in training), or maybe they also would have crashed and died. There's no way to know. But when you promote someone that didn't earn it, you open up for questions.