Hello fellow gamers,
We're the people who will be implementing the next chapter for OAG.
As many of you have noticed, there is a lot of controversy and concern about the site's future under new management. This, in part, is owed to how we went about announcing the next chapter of our journey together. For this, we apologize and are here to dispel any and all rumors going around as well as address any questions you our audience have for us.
We will show you with our action and our product's quality that we are serious about our mission and respect for you - the consumer. To begin this process, we are setting up an AMA to answer questions you have about the transition, staffing, what is going on, or who is best girl and why traps are most assuredly gay. Anything you are curious about, we will attempt to answer.
Ask us anything!
Proof: https://twitter.com/OneAngryGamerHD/status/1323646163317383169
We'll start answering your questions in 3 hours.
https://kotakuinaction2.win/u/OneAngryGamerHD/ ( Lead Editor ) https://kotakuinaction2.win/u/Kevin_Green/ ( Legacy Writer ) AKA Kevin : )
Yeah, hard pass.
Hi, I'll start off with saying we misspoke by using the term hate speech before consulting or digging more into the culture we have delved in. As we come from Europe and both me and the CEO are quite apolitical it seems we have quite a different understanding of the term. At first glance it sounds as if we're looking to censor, censor and censor, but that is not the case. The previous format of OAG was absolutely not sustainable and it was lucky to survive as much as it did. We are not looking to censor opinions as long as they abide by the rules, which google has set to make the site fully sustainable, which is basically not using racial slurs and sharing pornography openly, which doesn't seem like a big request to ask from our community, at least in our eyes. The rules that we will have to follow can be found here: https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/9335564
You did? Everything I read from you here confirms what I believe what you are about. Your whole operation is about making money and you believe you have what it takes to do it. Don't get me wrong, I'll never blame the one that makes a shitty offer. I'll blame the people that take it. I just don't think that you'll get enough reach with that offer. As I said, the people that care about free speech won't touch your site without at least one archive between you and them and the people that are dumb enough to believe you have a neutral stance have 'better' alternatives that pretend even more that you are on their side.
I am from Europe too, so ... yeah, so what? And as i don't think your target audience is european (although I'd be impressed if you had the balls to try that insanity) that is not an argument at all. I would have given you the benefit of the doubt but you couldn't not use hate speech in your little maintainance-message. I just don't believe that was an accident by someone that wants to be a major force in a very american-centric battle. Because anyone that pays even a little attention knows that Europe doesn't even know what a culture war even is. Case in point: Your excuse about being europeans.
Even so, that whole statement is a bit like Michael Pachter who recently said that he doesn't understand the whole hybrid-concept but we should still listen to him why Nintendo is doomed (again). Don't get me wrong, I really believe there is an opportunity in the marketplace. But betting your fortune on the culture war isn't going to do you any favours. Sure, you can use a litte clickbait short term but that's not going to net you any relevant marketshare. Billy tried right-wing clickbait and it got everyone turned off. There's a reason why you said that OAG wasn't sustainable.
Yet you tell us that you have to abide to rules that aren't codified into law in the US. They aren't in europe either but that whole thing in europe is, and I have to admit that, rather insane. So, even if you don't want to 'censor censor censor' it's the only reasonable conclusion to your stance. Again, I understand why you do that. I understand that you may even hope you can be as free speech as it gets on the Internet 2.o. I may even believe that you believe what you say. It just doesn't change the outcome. You will always have to censor your 'consumers' and as censorship goes it will never be enough. Because there's always someone willing to be offended enough at anything so someone higher up your chain will decide that whatever offended idiot Nr. 200023422340 on the planet has to be included in their hate-speech-policy from now on. I know that law isn't immune to that insanity, but at least law doesn't move faster than the speed of light (as in "the new rules have to be applied retroactively")
So, calling women cunts is A-OK? I'm sure u/TheImpossible1 will be glad to hear that. On the other hand, I'm quite sure this is hate speech as well, according to Google. Anyway, I wish you good luck when you start banning users for calling white people crackers and all the work you will have with the ensuing backlash.
What have you done with William you hook nosed bastards?!
I wanted to clarify this in the original post for this reason, that statement was made hastily after the acquisition and before any research into the site was conducted. it is a direct copy/paste of Google's terms and I can clarify this issue.
One Angry Gamer will continue to focus on being pro-consumer, calling out political interjection, and advocating for free speech. The changes will focus largely on how the comment section functions because of Google's requirements for AdSense which is required to make the site viable and to get crawlers to actually archive the site so we show up in search results.
In the comments terms that Google defines as Hate Speech will be prohibited as will pornography. We'll be setting up a discord that will serve as the platform for free and open conversation that while bound by Discords TOS will be a complete free speech bastion.
Management recognizes this will inconvenience and indeed annoy our readership, but our hands are tied in this regard. We've worked hard to find ways to maintain the OAG atmosphere and to carry on the mission Billy started years ago while complying with what is required of us in order to be a viable business.
Our new lead editor will comment on this further, but the message will soon change to reflect our core ideas going forward and to mitigate misunderstandings created by the original message.
For clarity those values are -Pro-Consumer -Pro-Escapism (IE we're calling out political interjection) -Get Woke Go Broke will continue and the list will return after review -All rules implemented will be defined and enforced equally.
A lot of this was discussed behind the scenes so management hasn't had the chance to update the site properly and wants to take into account all your feedback before doing so.
Well, good luck with that. You'll find that the overlap of people that care about free speech and people that think it's a good idea to let google dictate what zhey are allowed to say is abysmally small.
Your hands may be bound but I don't think you have a viable buisness on them either way.
Google will not dictate what you can and cannot say. I'll not cheapen it by beggaring, but pragmatically we're talking about a few words and posting images on another platform. You can still dunk on wokeness, interjection, etc and we'll continue to cover that stuff.
Come again?
Yes, some terms will be restricted, but the expression of thought will not be. For example, you can complain about race swapping, but just not use the N-word.
If you wanted to be overtly subversive about it, I would create a master list of banned terms and an "OAG conversion list", e.g. "N-word -> Jogger" etc. Make it officially sanctioned and created through community contribution and that could go a long way toward creating a sense of solidarity in fighting Google's censorship, despite living under it.
Basically, you need something of your own that gives off a "devil may care" vibe that Billy gave. He didn't just defend, he fought back. That was the attitude that people came for.
I'm forwarding this to our editor. That's a good idea.
As i said: good luck with that. You do you and I understand that you need the money. But please don't insult us by lying about bending to google's definition of hate speech.
Also: Don't he surprised when google inevitably broadens the definition.
I guess, I'll just watch how long it takes until you start mass-deleting and mass-banning. Not necessarily because you want to, but because you'll have no choice
Investors and the like is owner's responsibility. Yes, things may change beyond what we are discussing here now, but right now what we are expressing is our intended path forward.
We'll try to keep people updated if plans change going forward.
"Google will not dictate what you can and cannot say."
"terms that Google defines as"
"our hands are tied"
One of these statements doesnt make sense with the other two, can you tell us which one?
Here's something you can start with. We aren't consumers. We're customers. Get that right first and maybe your site won't be shit.
Pro-Consumer is a broader and accepted term for Pro-Customer. We look forward to retaining all our readers and serving them well with quality content that will continue the core idea set forth by Billy.
No, it's newspeak that removes agency from the customers. It also allows plausible deniability for shady corporations who provide a service to 'consumers' where the 'consumers' are the product.
Let me devil's advocate you and explain why what you are asking is not in your best interest. Pro-consumer represents a mentality of creating an atmosphere that is conducive to people who are both customers and potential customers that might not know of our product. It advocates for the advancement of customer rights and protections.
Now being pro-customer involves a very apt understanding of what constitutes a customer. If you have no interest in engaging with my business or plan to exploit our policies (in the sense of an airline, no OAG) then you would not be a customer and thus I have zero inclination to provide you any service, help, or even human decency.
It boils down to a tribalistic setting where you are either our customers or not our customers. Now a business can be both pro-consumer and pro-customer by limiting some behaviors each would entail in their purest form, but I'd never recommend being 100% pure customer.
Just fucking stop, this is the jewiest shit since the Nuremberg Trials
Do you want me to be honest with you? Most people are fucking illiterate dumbasses when it comes to predicting the outcome of their decisions let alone collective philosophy.
Pro-Consumer: market has to have social responsibility. Pro-Customer: If it doesn't impact those giving us money, it doesn't matter.
The oligarchs are pro-costumer and you can see what level of contempt they have for you. Further consider that if you are not a customer then what reason do I the seller have to even consider your opinion on any matter? I don't, in fact it is nonsensical to do so.
As I said what you are asking is against your best interest.
The issue with the "terms that Google defines as Hate Speech" is that these are vague by design.
As site owners focused on profitability, you will err on the safe side in order to maintain your AdSense status. This means you will always censor more than necessary.
That's just a fact. It's not damning you or anyone else, it's just an intersection of circumstances and motivations.
If Google is the issue, why not find another ad company? Worrying about googles TOS is hardly trying "to carry on the mission Billy started years ago"
One Angry Gamer was blacklisted by Google's crawlers. Fixing advertisement issues is easy and doable by contacting an advertisement agency and working out a placement arrangement. The problem is if google doesn't archive your site you don't get traffic.
We had great content and were starting to do good and google dropped our daily views down to 20% what they were. Billy did his best to comply with them, but he wouldn't sacrifice a few areas like comments and his own phrasing. It is respectable, but as you can see the end results were what they were.
So (((Kevin))) actually usurped William and shown his true colors
mark me unsurprised, i fucking told William it was unwise to hire a jew for staff but he insisted that Kevin was a good guy who would've never betrayed OAG...
Poor William, not only he was coerced to hand over OAG to these (((fellow gamers))) but also he got jew'ed by someone who thought was his friend
i truly hope there is a special kind of hell for people like you Kevin (((Green)))
Like Ethan I was given my pens down notice. I do not know if Ethan was in the know, but I was kept out of it even on common sense messaging you'd want your staff to be telling people.
I became involved in the relaunch after the new owners contacted me to retain my services.
As for my true colors, that is not hard to figure out. I don't prefer to lie, I merely don't tell people everything. Not a lie by omission, but I'm not keen on revealing my personal ideology, motivation, and mentalities. If you're observant it's not hard to piece together like 60% of it though. It's a mixture of naturalism, occultism, Buddhism, Taoism, and philosophy.
This is a very high effort troll haha. I mean dude, your announcement was filled with corporate woke idiocy, I'm not sure what you expect from people here, but it is a balsy move haha, you realize you have posted on a "Hate-speech" forum right? and reset era and other dummies will crucify you for it? It's just chef kiss
They are going to get back into Google just in time to get purged again, but without the audience this time.
Jules?
Huh no?
Was just joking. A host from whatculture often uses the chef kiss phrase
Oh sorry hahaha, it just seemed perfect to use there, I wasn't trying to make a reference or anything haha
I've not been called a F*gg** once here. How dare you guys call yourself a hate speech forum!
You betcha the original message contained some poor phrasing. Please understand that management is not American, so their understanding of hate-speech is radically different and more defined than what we are subjected to. The original message was also made before anything was actually decided or discussed so it does not reflect the path forward.
I can't trust someone who censors their own words
I am unsure what language is permitted on .win so I opted for the safe route. I'm also acting in an official capacity and our conversations and responses may be monitored, screenshotted, and used against us so I have to play it safe.
What is the national origin of the new managers?
Why did they buy this site? Why make the investment?answered elsewhereEuropean and I'll leave it to them if they want to specify further.
We are Lithuanian, personally me and the CEO are both apolitical and go by common sense, rationality when discussing these kinds of topics, but you can rest assured we will not put any of our personal influence over the upcomming content, writers will have full autonomy over what they will be writing about. Besides Billy's articles, most of the content is up to par with google's standards, so you can expect a continuation of similar content, just without radical, irrational remarks/opinions like the " Traitors of America " list, even though it is close to being " ok'd ", content similar to that would make the website unsustainable.
Are you fucking insane? Pleas tell me you will have a working editorial oversight!
Well at least you are taking the time to answer questions. I'm unsure what to think of it just yet, at least it has been entertaining enough.
I wasn't the biggest fan of OAG, but he made his own site and stuck to what he believed in (even if he was kinda insane). I'm not quite sure what you will do with the site, but it used to exist as a sort of contrast to all the other overtly woke and just as insane reporting being done practically every where else, so I at least hope you won't be the same cookie cutter woke gaming site, cause you will go broke.
There is no respect here when you're pulling that bullshit 'muh hate speech' card out of your asses.
To specify that line was copied from the Google terms and conditions before it was realized that the phrasing would cause issue amongst the community. While changes are coming they are no where near as severe as the original messaging indicated.
When the Lead Editor gets on he will provide more details to that effect.
Hi, I've just addressed this misspokement in a comment above, give it a look and let me know if you'd like me to delve more into it. :)
No fucking thank you
We understand, but we hope you'll give us a chance.
Why would we give a chance to censorious cucks?
not ominous at all
A lot of things are still in discussion so at the moment it is difficult to be specific. That being said I can confirm from talks that the changes will be minimal and the content will largely remain the same.
When I say slight, I don't mean owe hey we're moving cross country, lol slight change. tee hee.
Go fuck yourselves, cucks
Come fuck us yourself, coward.
You'd enjoy it too much, faggot
Yes! Insult me more daddy.
Oh fuck off, cuck.
Bring back the traitors of america list and keep everything else, including the porn articles.
Also where the hell is billy?
As for your introduction of a hate speech policy, you really dropped the ball there as people loved the /pol/ style comments.
The Get Woke Go Broke list will return. I'm unsure about the Traitors list. That will be left up to management.
Answer the fucking question, where's Billy?
He took a buyout and retired. He doesn't stay in contact, so beyond that I do not know. My apologies for the delay in replying, I don't get to .win as often as I should.
Eh, whatever might as well indulge my curiosity:
Why bother buying the relatively small site of a one-man show?
I mean I think Billy had lost his marbles on the way anyway, but whatever appeal the site had for people who still read it left with him. What's the point of buying a place with only very niche name recognition and, given that small communities tend to adapt more quickly, a reputation (both positive and negative) that will quickly fade?
Name recognition.
They're greedy and Billy's a sellout. Period.
Out of respect for Billy, I will mention that he is not a sellout and people should be thankful for the overtime he had kept the website running.
I cannot speak directly for the new owner so this is just my personal supposition, but One Angry Gamer has a certain reach that other legacy outlets do not possess. While they have heavily focused on pro-industry and anti-consumer rhetoric and coverage, Billy’s pro-consumer stance and mocking of political interjection is quite valuable.
With minor tweaks and expanded connections and branding the site can reach the hardcore gamers, pro consumerists, and the anti-political markets which consist of a sizable and increasingly in-demand markets.
For these reasons acquiring One Angry Gamer despite its reputation amongst certain segments is a considerably decent deal. With a few minor adjustments Adsense can be brought online, other advertisement arrangements can be made, and the branding can become something monumental going forward. Especially as these tweaks are so minor they would not risk losing the already established audience.
I dunno, I feel like OAG was still small enough that the legacy reach will die out very fast, since there's no way of keeping the pretense of it being the same site after the OG OAG is gone.
If it maintains reach then it does so on the back of its own content, at which point they didn't need to buy the OAG name.
It won't be the same site, this is true. We are entering a new chapter of OAG history and like people change so will it. What we're hoping and aiming for is a good change that makes the project viable while retaining the core principles that gave it the appeal it originally had.
Maybe some things will be tamer than before, but as it grows we'll be able to provide coverage of gaming from the perspective of gamers. Anime coverage from fans of anime, not those trying to hijack it and whine about tiddies. Yes it sucks that somethings will be changing and no one is saying or should say you have to just accept it.
Some people will choose to not read us anymore. I cannot stop them from doing so nor can I say it isn't the right choice for them. Growing up, aging, means sometimes paths diverge. One day they may come back, but till then we want to blaze a good path forward. One that is viable, but true to who we are.
Heya,
It never was a one-man show, the perception of it was.
I can't comment in Billy's well-being, neither the bussiness strategy we have planned, but I can assure you the perception that all of the visitors are from Billy's controversial articles is false. It is less than 20%.
"Trust us goyim, Billy isn't in any sort of danger, so don't ask questions!"
As you said you are prohibiting hate speech, will this extend to female hate speech towards men, such as slogans like "The Future is Female" that refer to genocidal plots?
Or will this be like Twitter, where "Kill all men" is regarded as satire and therefore fine.
I've talked with the lead editor and I can 100% confirm yes it will and some of those examples were specifically used. There will be no male-bashing or anti-white rhetoric allowed in the comments.
I'm not convinced, if I'm being honest.
You're working with Google, an organization that openly promotes radical feminism, and you rely on them for your income.
How long will they tolerate you blocking the calls for violence from their loyal supporters?
I know I'm telling the truth. I've never once uneavenly enforced rules on anything I've managed. Recently I even had to tell my best friend he'd been warned in my discord server over an argument he had with another user. Didn't like it and I have the mentality of "I don't care who started what, the rules are the rules." That said you don't know me, so you have no reason to believe I or even our owners and editors will enforce those rules evenly. That said we hope you will give us the opportunity to demonstrate we will and earn that trust.
We're not working for Google. We are subjected to their restrictions just like every site that wants to use AdSense and have their Crawlers do their thing. Thus while Google can promote whatever they like, we will be operating on our own standard set forth by our owners.
That's up to them, but there are ways of making rules that can easily and fairly nip that in the bud.
Hey, at least where I come from, this would be called sexism, since it conveys that females are superior to men, while at least in our views we consider males and females as equals. Of course we'll be struck with various slogans that will be on the grey area and up to debate as well, we will be evaluating such encounters through un-biased, rational eyes.
Well this is DOA. They're property, not people, and pretending otherwise is why birthrates dropped like a rock, and how racial replacement is so effective for the ongoing white genocide.
Why do you think it's appropriate to take a site that was staunchly pro-free speech and shitting all over the idea of free speech?
We did not " take " it, it was coughing up its last breaths. We do not look to censor free-speech ourselves (the new management), but the site has to live one way or another. The over-romanticization of free-speech is something that is not sustainable once the website reached the traffic that it is at. We believe that we can keep free-speech alive and well with the next chapter of OAG. If people are not able to express their opinions without using N***, F*** etc., it's not censorship to blame.
While I don't respect your PR work here, I do appreciate you shining light on some of the ugly truths of this matter.
You're making a serious argument against free speech - in a gamergate community! It's quite something.
Speaking personally and not in a professional capacity I find there are very very few people who are true absolutionists when it comes to Freedom of Speech. Most refuse to even stop the government from passing obscenity laws, hate speech laws, or hate crimes laws that often require presumption to be made about motivation thus regulating thought itself.
Further porn is legally classified as speech and how many of you are willing to defend Child Pornography? Well that’s different because children are being harmed in the creation. True, but they’re not harmed in the possession, but that’s a moral argument for a different day. (For the record I am against Child Pornography, I am using it in an intellectual capacity and this statement in no way, shape, or form advocates for the production or ownership of CP.)
How about libel and defamation laws? Those with wisdom will also agree we need Truth in Media laws, but that restricts their capacity to speak as they would desire. We don’t permit shouting fire in a crowded building or incitement anywhere even if it is justified. The reality is most people do not believe in freedom of speech until they want to say something and then they find they cannot say it. The smart among us wisely realize the censors will come for us if we let them take an inch so we defend the right as best we can.
That being said we are not the ones who woke up one day and went, yeah I really want to create an arbitrary nanny state system that restrict what people says so everyone can feel included and not discriminated against. Society did that and when Google and Silicon Valley expanded it no one had a single issue until it became a problem.
Do we want to limit what you all say? No. There is no profit in doing so. There is no emotional gain from wielding such petty power. All of us have better things we could be doing with our time than doing so. Yet we are forced to abide by Googles terms and we came to our established audience to explain what was going on. We aren’t here to beg you or coddle you. This is the reality and until Silicon Valley’s monopolistic grasp is destroyed it will remain the reality.
Now you can hate us for that reality or understand that we can continue delivering truth to more people by bending the knee to a small demand and in the grander scheme of the culture war it is a small demand, a petty victory that etches away at their support. I hope you give us a chance, but I understand if you won’t. That is your right, but if you won’t at least send us tips on juicy stories. Anyway, that’s just my two cents on the matter.
I'm only gonna argue for pushing free speech absolutism on the internet because it's way easier to try to create a bunch of sites with wild west rules from 10+ years ago than it would be to try and establish a legitimate and fully-functional libertarian/ancap paradise in real life. So I don't have much internal conflict for taking a hard stance for it online. I can defend pedos online without worrying about being assaulted or abducted, unlike real life public spaces, for instance. Same with other highly volatile topics. Free market of ideas, and all that.
I appreciate the argument about losing one battle in a bigger war you're trying to win, but I want you to not attribute all possible bitterness the OAG brand receives towards idealism. There's another major factor, in that OAG was a figure of hope (maybe not a top10 hope, but still) for people who are feeling trapped in demoralization, but the leadership has changed hands and there's little reason to expect the same under new leadership. Such an audience has been burned too often to have use of promises; all you can do for them is make a good product, consistently (which was hopefully already a goal).
I love when people say "Wild West" because most do not understand the only thing the Wild West lacked was a uniformed system of law, not law. In fact, as the federal government expanded several provinces and cities gained rights and lost laws that were blatantly unconstitutional, such as the Wild West's prolific anti gun laws.
I appreciate that you are firm on your position. Do you consider the dangers of an encroaching authority to be your driving motivator or is your position based on principle? I'd love to have this discussion with you, as I'm sure you are aware it is rare to have someone willing to talk about the merits and philosophy of matters.
I don't dismiss people's anger and disdain for what has happened. It was unfair and probably would not have occurred in a fair free market. They have the right to be upset and to not participate with us going forward, but I hope they do. If only in giving us tips so we can signal boost good stories or do research into what matters to readers.
That sounds like some bullshit tagline, so let me explain why I'm serious. I'm not a simp or a rug, but I appreciate the concept that in the creative arts such as writing and youtube one is only able to do their work so long as it is consumed by others. This interaction gives the work a grander meaning outside self satisfaction for having created something. I shout into the void on social media, so I'm used to doing both, but it is better when the work is consumed. For this reason it is in my best interest to appreciate the concerns of the audience to maintain good relations with them.
Yes there is some emotion in there, no I will not sell myself out to please them, but it at the end of the day is a rational decision.
Well, I'm no history buff. If I say "wild west" in reference to an era of the internet, the odds are good that others will understand my meaning. Although what you say about the wild west actually reinforces what I cared about. I think individual sites should be allowed to have awful rulesets if they want, but only as long as it's possible for another site to pop up with a good ruleset and take all the traffic. This modern stuff of payment processor cancellation and host corruption makes me sick.
For the free speech thing? Some of both, I think, but it depends on definition of authority. I'll assume the modern definition that means that anyone who is given an authoritative title is an authority, typically for the purpose of being allowed to wield power over other people legally (sometimes even reversed, where, say, a forum moderator can be called an authority just because he can wield power over users). I like to think that I'm mostly driven by the principle of the matter, but I acknowledge that seeing the grip tighten on speech online makes me double down.
I don't want the next generation to be denied the opportunities mine had growing up. I want kids to be able to shout nonsense in their headsets during pvp. I want teenagers to be able to misuse their creativity and time with elaborate troll operations. I want people to be able to find others with opposing ideas and have the chance to debate them in a no-holds-barred smackdown, and then I want the text left online for everyone to bear witness to.
There are some cracks in the principle, like trying to deal with spam (which is woefully simple to accomplish with bots now). No one really gets any use out of it, so it's usually a low resistance issue to widely ban it somehow, like having a moderator oversee all output. I think the better idea is to give each user the ability to mute others so they can have the exact kind of curation they desire - something which isn't really common sense to a lot of people because you can't do it in real life. In real life, if someone's being a nuisance in the movie theater, you can try to tune them out, but that's a big effort and will spoil your leisure. You could confront them, but what if they ignore you? Use force? That only works if they aren't one of the protected classes. Report to employees? What do you do if the employees don't care? Manager won't do anything unless he cares. (I haven't gone to a theatre in over 10 years, can you tell)
I think you have a good attitude for a creator. You sound like you've overcome the common issues that trip up small time creators. I keep an eye on a couple of amateur game dev groups (not the same as writing, but still a creative field) and they can be a real sorry lot. Lecturing doesn't do much, the important stuff like motivation and priorities have to be discovered by the individual. Lot of people with big rockstar dreams that get caught up in promises of easy victory.
Holy shit, this is the exact same overdramatic self-righteous egomania you hear from a Holohoax "survivor." In fact, post your eyes and nose with a timestamp, because otherwise, I can guarantee that at this point the answer is "black and rat-like, massive" in that order.
Explain the faggy hate speech thing
That is a copy pasted statement from Google. A new statement will be going up soon to properly reflect the path forward. This was made before discussions were had and we are sorry for the confusion it caused.
We misspoke, more details on it have been answered in previous questions, you can find the rules we will be abiding here:
https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/9335564
"Oh, no! I said great speech policy! That's what we'll call our totally censorship-free comment sections."
Does the following constitute hate-speech:
"White people are a stain that needs to be removed."
"Men are trash. Kill all men."
If not (as I have come to expect), why not?
==============================================================
Does the following constitute hate-speech:
"The Ghostbusters reboot was terrible."
"The Last of Us 2 was terrible."
If so (as I have come to expect), why so?
What about:
"Men can't become women."
"There are only two genders."
"Biological males shouldn't compete against biological females"
That 'hate-speech'?
In order: Yes, Yes, fact and no, fact and no, and facts cannot be hate-speech.
I've gotta say, you are answering questions directly and politely (despite us being our usual charming selves). You are on KIA2.win of all places (you know we're worse than nazis right?). You appear to be earnestly trying to redress the situation.
If you're for real, then I wish you luck. Seriously, saying "no hate-speech" to us is like saying "women only changing room" to the trannies.
I was on 8chan so I affiliated with Hyper Venitian Nazis so this is somewhat of a step-down. Our editor is familiar with 4chan, so when he gets on to answer questions he's not going to be terribly offended either.
Appreciated and yes we're attempting to resolve the confusion caused by the initial message.
Yet you don't know the rule of lurking before posting? Or you thought it just doesn't apply anywhere but 8chan? Since you censor yourself saying faggot in another comment. And not in a normal manner, even. You capitalized the F, then censored 3 letters.
The OP starts with "Hello fellow gamers," don't expect any serious participation, it's presented like a troll operation. Awkwardness and corporatism are no excuse for lacking awareness of one's audience. Not your post, I know, but it's embarassing and a huge red flag.
Also, what's your first language? I don't think it's english. I thought the rigidity was awkward formality at first, but no, that's not it.
Tell the owners/managers to come out and clean up their own shit. They won't because they can't handle hardball questions like business models or being called out on misunderstanding 101 basics like demographics.
Ideally if there wasn't a need to correct the bad impression the original message created we would have probably done an AMA closer to relaunch, but that sadly wasn't what circumstances provided. Secondly, though we respect the audience here, this wasn't our first selection. We tried launching the AMA on /r/KotakuinAction and someone asked why we hadn't done it on here and that was a solid point, so we launched two AMAs. Sadly KIA's admins demonstrated their lack of class by shutting the other one down, but you've all been wonderful.
Well, I once said fellow channer instead of Vtard, so I cannot complain about "fellow gamers." Especially not after I wrote one draft of this message and didn't change it either. Probably should have put a Geeks in there. Owe well.
My first language is English, but my writing style leans toward authoritative as my earliest work was in non-fiction. I understand it comes across rather strong, but sadly it is also reflective of my thinking process as well. Right now we are presenting a formal appearance and approaching the audience with respect. Going forward there will be more light-hearted writing and brevity in our words.
The owner is a good guy and we have permission to do the talking. If you want to know the hard truth this isn't his only venture. I do not know much about the man myself, but I know he is busy and juggling several projects. There really wasn't much more beyond cleaning up the image to make it viable. A bit thoughtless, but as they aren't from the US they didn't understand their statement was the equivalent of throwing a hand grenade into a children's party.
I'm not surprised to hear about KIA giving you trouble. Bad blood between us and them, for one thing. They seemed to despise the work on OAG, felt it was all too extreme and biased for them.
For clarity, I want to point out that the "fellow gamers" thing isn't an issue of labels, it's just a trope that demonstrates a degree of disconnect when an outsider attempts to penetrate a group. As other commentors have referenced, it's like the meme "how do you do, fellow kids" (often attributed with an image of Steve Buscemi attempting to blend in at a high school).
I was mostly shit-testing you with the ESL remark. I'll accept that it may accurately reflect your thinking process.
So far it reeks of managerial troubles, but there's really nothing you could do to clear up my concerns there because I'm biased against such scenarios. If it helps, I'm not just gonna write it all off as doomed and I think a lot of us are eager/willing to try out some new pieces before final judgment.
I think doing this on election day was also a poor choice. I imagine a lot of our regulars are out hunting for "salt" or otherwise doing the internet culture equivalent of partying.
I own up to not fixing that in my draft as well. I should have said Geeks and Gamers, but in a formal letter, one has to make a correct address even if it sounds phony as hell. I agree it does look like we're saying "hey fellow kids." Without the Jump Street cleverness.
Appreciate your acceptance. In a professional capacity, it is a bit more rigid, but in general, this is just who I am. Yes it gets me called a know it all and people complaining it sounds like I'm acting like an authoritative source or something to that effect. (Never that my info is wrong which does happen).
Real talk, if fancy words instead of actions could convince you that all your concerns were invalid you'd be a chump and my Nigerian friend needs your help to move some money out of his country. I never expect this would be the end of it, merely the beginning of fixing the issue and moving forward.
Don't get me started on election day. This whole voter fraud nonsense has had me stressed for days. I'm impressed with how flagrant it is.
OwO
I'll bite.
Gamers and Geeks. We want to maintain the same audience as we had and expand our reach organically growing the brand. We do not want to sacrifice the old for an imaginary audience.
I'll leave our Editor in Chief to answer that
The site's focus will remain largely the same but expand to more gaming news and coverage.
We want to reach out to our audience and clear up misconceptions created by the initial posting of the new chapter message. We also want your feedback.
I'll leave our Lead Editor to field that one.
Expect? No. We hope to earn that trust and viewership, not command you to retain your readership just because we have an established branding.
So the first question is "who are you, and who are you even going to be trying to write to? What did you do before taking this site over? Who do you think is going to want to read a site that promises to censor from the getogo?
then "wouldnt traps being gay be "hate speech"?"I mean its such a nebulous and easily applied bullshit term, and can range from actual hate all the way up to actual provable statistics.
But seriously though, what made you tihnk buying the site and then becoming censor was going to earn you the least bit of fucking clout with anyone but other censorius dirtbags?
We are entrepreneurs, which sounds corporate, but you can be assured we are nothing like that. We've stumbled upon a reasonable venture in a quite different market as a challenge as continuing something that has actual non-monetary value. Karol, the CEO will be in the shadows working with the back-end of the community, while I - Albert will be working on the front-end and keeping articles up to the expected readers' standards. I personally come from a different spectrum of the gaming community (competitive games) and I'm looking forward to being educated in this niche culture we've encountered : )
" Are traps gay? " In our eyes doesn't have hate speech in itself, the debate arguments are usually what sparks forms of hate speech.
We're not looking for clout from anyone actually, we will put up our statements and whoever will accept the next step, we will welcome and appreciate their presence. I've answered on censorship in previous answers, the tweaks are going to be pretty minimal in the whole picture, you can find the rules we're going to abide by here: https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/9335564
so youre shills for google. got it. Bitch does what bitch is told, and if hes lucky his masters will pay him a pittance in gold.
I'm Kevin I wrote for Billy and am being retained. I'll be covering the same topics as before: Get Woke Go Broke, political interjection, detailed breakdowns, gaming news and announcements, and hopefully I'll be able to add interviews and in-demand previews to that roster.
Same thing I do every night. Plan to take over the world then sob myself to sleep at my lack of budget. Kidding aside I'll leave that for our editor to answer.
The version of the op post you're seeing is an edited down version of a draft the editor and myself worked on. That was a little joke, and no saying traps are gay isn't hate speech. It doesn't attack, defame, or incite against any community and frankly is one of the funniest ways to start an argument.
Management isn't going to censor the site to the degree the original message makes it appear. That was a gaff as they rushed out a statement after the acquisition. To answer the question more directly though we will enforce any rules equally leaving the comments a place to discuss gaming, weebery, and the topics at hand while allowing for a wider range of discussion to occur on the discord that will be set up. (at least that is the plan right now). The censorship is more just restricting a few words and a specifically defined hate speech policy.
I won't be as blunt as some of the other people, but I will agree that this line from your announcement is very concerning.
What is the new ToS going to look like, especially as relates to hate speech? What is going to qualify as hate speech? And will your enforcement of hate speech be incredibly one-sided just like (virtually) every other single website out there which has adopted a hate speech ToS clause (see, for example, Twitter where saying "OK, dude" is misgendering and leads to a ban while saying "Muslims have a right to be angry and to kill millions of French people" is perfectly allowed)?
Hi, sorry again as I mentioned we have misspoke using that term, as our different definition of it has caused quite an outrage. You can be rest assured that you'll be able to write " OK, dude " freely ;) But radical opinions like that will not. You can get an idea of what to expect by checking out: https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/9335564
What about the "pornographic content" part? Seeing as one of the first things you did was removing the lewd figurine adds i think i know the answer already on what your definition of "pornographic" is.
In order
It will be well defined and specific.
Hate Speech will utilize the European understanding of the concept. There will be no "from a position of power" modifier. Any derogatory or inciteful language will be banned. No calling people the N-word and no saying "kill all men."
All policies will be enforced equally.
Speech of that nature will not be permitted. There are no protected classes who have the right to kill anymore.
In my view, you're better off dumping the term entirely, and describing in an alternative way the things that you want to remove.
Agreed and this has been discussed and is under review. Owers and management get to make that decision.
Oh, the European understanding of it....you mean the kind of understanding were judges, with a straight face, sign arrest warrants against people for, and i quote, "posting something offensive on Facebook", thats the kind of understaning the new owners decided to go with?
That's the UK standard. The new administration is Eastern European.
Eastern European as in?
Look Kevin, i know you're genuine you're articles where always (well most of the time) spot on, however i don't trust Europeans...AT ALL, most of the garbage we have to deal with today has it's birthplace in Europe. Not to mention that i've seen all this way too often, big promises that ended up being quickly forgotten, NicheGamer did, BoundingIntoComics did along with many others.
Case in point, talk is cheap.
How do you do, fellow kids?
Chillings : }
As you can see, people are quite unhappy over the whole 'hate speech' mess that was created. In fact, I added OAG to the KiA2 blacklist, because I assumed it had been taken over by either SJWs or SJW lite types.
If this is about Google's advertisements, which are necessary for any site that wants to have a future since people do not work for free, then that ought to be made more clear. We have quite the draconian, totalitarian rules on the KiA2 subreddit, but that is because of admin nonsense, and the result is that people are quite understanding. It is also important that you not give any sort of legitimacy to either censorship or the concept of 'hate speech', which is pure garbage.
Anything that is so vague and undefined can be easily abused, as it is.
from the answers given, i'd bet its going to stay on that list. Bitch does what bitch is told by google, apparently.
Well, we are bitches who do what we are told by the Reddit admins, so there is some understanding there.
You sure about that?
Quite so. I've gotten very little anger even though I've had to impose the most retarded rules you can imagine. And these are not even rules where you have hard proof that this is what the admins demand, since nearly all of it is supposition. They do not communicate with you, they nuke one thing and leave it to you to figure out what they found offensive.
I actually expected much more anger. But people are much more reasonable than you'd think.
I'm just referencing the recent kerfuffle about some of the rules (beginning with the question why we have so many fucking rules at all) bleeding through with quite redditesque explanations.
I do not recall, but I may have missed it.
Regardless, regardless of how bad it was, it's still much less than would be expected given the abject stupidity and retardation of the rules that we have to enforce.
Hi
Yep, it was a rushed and misunderstood phrasing from us. We are nowhere close to SJWs,
We're thankful that you understand our stance regarding Google AdSense. The website was not on a path to survive by a long-shot, which is why we came along. The current owners are both apolitical and will not put their personal opinions in upcomming content. But the content will have a slight change, you can find our answer on hate speech over here: https://kotakuinaction2.win/p/11PoxGYBIU/x/c/1ARcz6kwSv
The problem is that you’re trying to balance on this tight-rope of what is and isn’t allowed by Google, who constantly switches the terms of service.
And the “no pornography or bad speech thing”? I don’t have that limitation on the other forums/news sites that I frequent, and I’m not confident that it won’t overextend to slightly risqué things. That restriction alone will limit what articles you put out and what your commenters can do.
I would like OAG to keep in line with its past and encourage the staff to do their best, but it’s hard for me to do that when this feels like another subversion in the making.
Hi, the policy changes at least from the last few years have been pretty unnoticeable in our eyes :O
You can find them here: https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/9335564
We are moving pornographic material to a discord we will be setting up. Yes, the rules will continue to follow US law, not UN/Globalist anti anime insanity. Although specific categories like Loli, may be subject to isolation in their own tab. These policies will be determined fully later and subject to revision as the need arises based on community management needs.
As I've answered in previous questions, besides the google tweaks, we (the owners) will not be influencing the content produced by our writers. We'll be looking forward to win you back over : )
Well, I’ve still got my misgivings about all this, but thanks for taking the time to respond.
I’ll at least take a look at the site, since you’ve been decent enough to enter this potential land-mine field and try to offer work-arounds to people.
My worry/hope is that you don’t shy away from covering sexual censorship, since that’s the reason I used to go to the site (besides the comment sections).
I wasn't a legacy KiA2 user on Reddit, so with a bit of a different background and perspective to all this. I am someone who used to be active in "normal" gaming communities and have totally abandoned that because of how it became. It's not just a ban on words either. Me personally, I don't feel the need to go to calling people a faggot or whatever, as the way I see it if a discussion has devolved to name-calling it's no longer a discussion anyway.
What ran me off from most communities is the total bias and inability to call out and dislike things that disagreed with a "woke" narrative. Something as simple as criticizing a black woman as the main character or even criticizing any such media that contains said black main character was, even if not forbidden, never going to lead to any useful discussion in these forums. It didn't matter if the criticism had nothing to do with it, you are one of those "bootlicking racists".
I get the idea that the main reason for the hate speech limitations you mention is to be able to monetize via Google. I totally get that and I love capitalism so I'm all for a site making money. My suggestion would be to make all of the policies very discrete (i.e. not open for interpretation) and be very clear in the reasoning when said policies are enforced. That's something I've noticed when moderation does come up here, whether something is removed or not--there's always an explanation.
I'd also say that myself (and I bet a lot of others here) are much more wary and attuned to how much censorship has gone on, so even though I may give your site a fair opportunity, the leash is always very short. If you start spouting the narrative, you're just one of a hundred sites at that point and no longer have anything to offer. I'd love to be able to look up game reviews that give note to woke things--e.g. right now I'm trying to find out if Dragon Quest XI is woke for example, but good luck trying to find something like that on the open internet. So, there's an opportunity to be something like that.
Hi, thank you for your extensive input, we appreciate it and we're all open-ears, since we are not fully educated in the communities we are diving into.
We absolutely agree with your statement, even if we would not have to censor certain words/harassment we would view these types of discussions as inappropiate and achieving nothing. I think you will enjoy the upcomming approach to content!
We are not against criticisms and open discussions of this topic, as we are keeping the " Got woke - went broke " list. As long as it doesn't involve derogatory terms and extremist discussions.
You are correct and thank you for your suggestion, we will be working on nailing down on the main policies that would be acceptable towards the community and google together : )
You will definitely be able to find what you're looking for and more. We as the owners will not be influencing the content that is being written by our talented writers, nor giving any opinions, as long as the content is up to par with google's ToS, we are good to go :) You can expect the content to stay the same and even better than before ( unless you only read Billy's articles ;) ) since we will be focusing a lot more into the game industry!
why was the sjw sexual misconduct master-list wiped?
Update: So that all turned out to be a fucking lie