John Stewart ''commited fraud'' by ''over-valuing'' his property by 829% above the city evaluation, by the same reasoning used to claim Trump ''comited fraud'' by ''over-valuing'' Mar a Lago several times what the city evaluation is.
Yes the judge used the city evaluation to eyeball value and tell the bank ''nuh-uh, it was fraud'' when the bank itself testified the was no fraud and they conducted their own property evaluation of Mar a Lago.
How tf can you even over value something? That would just mean you pay more taxes right? Even if someone bought it way above what it’s worth, that’s something the government should have no say in, but also it’s the buyer’s dumbass fault for not researching and taking a bad deal
If you're asking what they charged Trump with it's roundabout. It talks about it in this article. The tax assessor uses a formula to come up with one value, and the market dictates another. Trump's trial didn't address the market value of his properties. he was demonstrated to have overvalued them because he claimed a value higher than the tax assessor had. If the lender were suing Trump, they could make an argument that he overvalued property, deceiving them. But they aren't. It's the government going after him.
Mr Wonderful from TV said it worried the whole NY real estate community because the whole community operates under this regime where assessed value is far less than market value.
Leibowitz didn't overvalue anything though. He sold it, establishing its value. If the tax man is too dumb to pick up on that this one thing isn't Jon's fault.
Leibowitz didn't overvalue anything though. He sold it, establishing its value. If the tax man is too dumb to pick up on that this one thing isn't Jon's fault.
In his 12 min rant the only two actual points he had against Trump:
banks didn't make as much money on interest as they could have
Trump didn't pay 'enough' property taxes, expounding that it wasn't victimless because if he had paid more than assessed there would be more food stamps and Walgreens.
In both cases the property was taxed far below it's value and the principals knew it. In Leibowitz's case we know for sure that he failed to voluntarily overpay the assessed tax in the year he sold it - that's if he listed it at $2 million and maybe there was a bidding war that drove it up to $20. I'd bet he listed it higher than $2 million though, indicating he already knew it was worth more than assessed.
The only difference here in (2) is that Trump continued to not voluntarily overpay the assessed tax for a several years whereas John only did so for one or more years. This is quite a fine distinction. "I only killed one person whereas he killed 3 or 4 people" - you both did the same thing, just to varying degrees.
The only non-hypocritical point John Stewart Leibowitz made was the bank could have made slightly more money - which he said in his piece he doesn't care about and the bank also said they don't care about.
he paid taxes on a lower value than what he sold the property for. ie he used different assessments to his benefit and capitalised on market value while lowering tax value
Yeah even for regular people, your house is one of the best ways you can leverage yourself. Or at least was when you could get a (slightly) sub 3% loan.
Not exactly the same, Jon Stewart sold his suite at 829% over estimate is not the same as Trump going to the bank asking for a loan and inflating his property value and fudge square space and whatever to make it happen. I know this is not the audience for it but it's not a good argument. I'm basing this off getting a loan from the bank and overinflating the asset used as collateral is a bigger deal because if you default on the loan the bank take the asset and finds out they can't hock it for the amount to recoup the debt they can come after your ass for lying. That said, people like me have to go to the bank hat in hand while they checked me for polyps to get a home loan, getting hundreds of millions in loans approved and the banks don't do their own assessments? Bull fucking shit.
I didn't watch Jon Stewart's video but I read parts of it and he said Kevin O’Leary said the quiet part out loud. No shit sherlock, that's not the point, the point is everybody does it AND THE BANK LETS THEM DO IT. You don't think the bank read the fucking loan applicant and go hmm... maybe this guy's bathroom isn't four stories tall and 15,000 sq ft. (too late and lazy to pull actual numbers)
Only difference is New York only went after Trump for it with a bullshit carney law and an even more carney judge.
You want to go after everyone and fine the banks and all those DNC backing New York businesses with the same thing? No? So it is just about getting Trump. Then we got nothing to talk about. Fucking hypocrites. Yeah Stewart, Kevin said the quiet part out loud, that's the point, it doesn't expose him, it exposes you.
It's pretty much the same thing. When I take loans on a property, I always argue for a higher value. When I pay taxes on it, I always dispute for a lower number. It's the same thing for selling.
When you go the bank for a loan, the bank themselves will check the property and assess if it can be sold for that value if you default. They don't just take whatever figure you give them. If they can not get that value back on your loan (and banks are generally VERY conservative about this value), then either something shifted majorly in the market or they had a very bad assessor on their part.
US Banks hate, hate having to deal with real estate, due to all the regulations involved if you default on the loan. So they purposefully setup alot of gatekeeping hoops to prevent you from getting said loan.
For example, if you, like me, wanted to buy raw land(no development, no house), you're shit out of luck unless you go specifically to a bank designed to handle such things. And you're still going to be jumping through hoops - land evaluation, land surveys, checking with laws in the local county, ect, ect.
This is why the entire Trump prosecution blows my fucking mind on how blatantly political it is. The far reaching repercussions are going to be insane, and we probably won't see full results for several decades - and by then they'll make excuses as to why all said bullshit happened.
unless you go specifically to a bank designed to handle such things
That doesn't sound like a bad thing. Getting a mortgage from Bank of America isn't exactly this spectacular win. Especially if they won't understand what you're doing.
This on top of AOC being a dumbass and saying RICO isn’t a crime despite trying to charge Trump with it should really start waking some normies up. I hate that I have to constantly explain that there may be 100+ charges on Trump but if even a single one sticks it is a huge miscarriage of justice with long lasting repercussions.
Whoopsies!
Can we get a tl;dr that doesn't require reading Leibowitz's opinion? Exactly what did he do? Who said he overvalued it? Will he be in legal trouble?
John Stewart ''commited fraud'' by ''over-valuing'' his property by 829% above the city evaluation, by the same reasoning used to claim Trump ''comited fraud'' by ''over-valuing'' Mar a Lago several times what the city evaluation is.
Yes the judge used the city evaluation to eyeball value and tell the bank ''nuh-uh, it was fraud'' when the bank itself testified the was no fraud and they conducted their own property evaluation of Mar a Lago.
How tf can you even over value something? That would just mean you pay more taxes right? Even if someone bought it way above what it’s worth, that’s something the government should have no say in, but also it’s the buyer’s dumbass fault for not researching and taking a bad deal
If you're asking what they charged Trump with it's roundabout. It talks about it in this article. The tax assessor uses a formula to come up with one value, and the market dictates another. Trump's trial didn't address the market value of his properties. he was demonstrated to have overvalued them because he claimed a value higher than the tax assessor had. If the lender were suing Trump, they could make an argument that he overvalued property, deceiving them. But they aren't. It's the government going after him.
Mr Wonderful from TV said it worried the whole NY real estate community because the whole community operates under this regime where assessed value is far less than market value.
Leibowitz didn't overvalue anything though. He sold it, establishing its value. If the tax man is too dumb to pick up on that this one thing isn't Jon's fault.
In his 12 min rant the only two actual points he had against Trump:
In both cases the property was taxed far below it's value and the principals knew it. In Leibowitz's case we know for sure that he failed to voluntarily overpay the assessed tax in the year he sold it - that's if he listed it at $2 million and maybe there was a bidding war that drove it up to $20. I'd bet he listed it higher than $2 million though, indicating he already knew it was worth more than assessed.
The only difference here in (2) is that Trump continued to not voluntarily overpay the assessed tax for a several years whereas John only did so for one or more years. This is quite a fine distinction. "I only killed one person whereas he killed 3 or 4 people" - you both did the same thing, just to varying degrees.
The only non-hypocritical point John Stewart Leibowitz made was the bank could have made slightly more money - which he said in his piece he doesn't care about and the bank also said they don't care about.
he paid taxes on a lower value than what he sold the property for. ie he used different assessments to his benefit and capitalised on market value while lowering tax value
while stealing from the state. that tax money could have gone to 9/11 survivors!
fuck the state
Thanks.
why does jon stewart need a mortgage if he earns $5m an episode?
Serious answer; Pay a fixed rate low-interest mortgage, take the money you'd pay on the real estate and invest it elsewhere for high-interest returns.
That's how these people make money. When you get to a point where you can buy land like this with cash, you'd make more money if you actually didn't.
Yeah even for regular people, your house is one of the best ways you can leverage yourself. Or at least was when you could get a (slightly) sub 3% loan.
why is anyone surprised? hypocrisy means nothing to them
Not exactly the same, Jon Stewart sold his suite at 829% over estimate is not the same as Trump going to the bank asking for a loan and inflating his property value and fudge square space and whatever to make it happen. I know this is not the audience for it but it's not a good argument. I'm basing this off getting a loan from the bank and overinflating the asset used as collateral is a bigger deal because if you default on the loan the bank take the asset and finds out they can't hock it for the amount to recoup the debt they can come after your ass for lying. That said, people like me have to go to the bank hat in hand while they checked me for polyps to get a home loan, getting hundreds of millions in loans approved and the banks don't do their own assessments? Bull fucking shit.
I didn't watch Jon Stewart's video but I read parts of it and he said Kevin O’Leary said the quiet part out loud. No shit sherlock, that's not the point, the point is everybody does it AND THE BANK LETS THEM DO IT. You don't think the bank read the fucking loan applicant and go hmm... maybe this guy's bathroom isn't four stories tall and 15,000 sq ft. (too late and lazy to pull actual numbers)
Only difference is New York only went after Trump for it with a bullshit carney law and an even more carney judge.
You want to go after everyone and fine the banks and all those DNC backing New York businesses with the same thing? No? So it is just about getting Trump. Then we got nothing to talk about. Fucking hypocrites. Yeah Stewart, Kevin said the quiet part out loud, that's the point, it doesn't expose him, it exposes you.
It's pretty much the same thing. When I take loans on a property, I always argue for a higher value. When I pay taxes on it, I always dispute for a lower number. It's the same thing for selling.
When you go the bank for a loan, the bank themselves will check the property and assess if it can be sold for that value if you default. They don't just take whatever figure you give them. If they can not get that value back on your loan (and banks are generally VERY conservative about this value), then either something shifted majorly in the market or they had a very bad assessor on their part.
Question: Are you saying that the bank checks your health before giving you a loan, in the States..?
That's pretty wild, to me, if so...
That's most definitely not a thing here, so good to know, if that's the case...
Depressing, but good to know.
It's a sarcastic expression that they're so thorough they even looked inside my asshole for a loan.
US Banks hate, hate having to deal with real estate, due to all the regulations involved if you default on the loan. So they purposefully setup alot of gatekeeping hoops to prevent you from getting said loan.
For example, if you, like me, wanted to buy raw land(no development, no house), you're shit out of luck unless you go specifically to a bank designed to handle such things. And you're still going to be jumping through hoops - land evaluation, land surveys, checking with laws in the local county, ect, ect.
This is why the entire Trump prosecution blows my fucking mind on how blatantly political it is. The far reaching repercussions are going to be insane, and we probably won't see full results for several decades - and by then they'll make excuses as to why all said bullshit happened.
That doesn't sound like a bad thing. Getting a mortgage from Bank of America isn't exactly this spectacular win. Especially if they won't understand what you're doing.
This on top of AOC being a dumbass and saying RICO isn’t a crime despite trying to charge Trump with it should really start waking some normies up. I hate that I have to constantly explain that there may be 100+ charges on Trump but if even a single one sticks it is a huge miscarriage of justice with long lasting repercussions.
"It's okay when we do it!"