Reading the comments of the people who want it suppressed and didn’t get mass downvoted, I ran into something common:
They want it banned because they believe that the society that they want is completely incompatible with that content existing, or that banning said content is completely consistent with 1A because the US existed for almost 200 years without such content (porn in general, lolisho really only got over here because of anime becoming a sensation) being mass distributed throughout the country.
Going back to lolisho specifically, there’s no way to get around the fact that sexual lolisho art depicts children in sexual situations, and I personally don’t believe that anime looking like it does matters, because that’s still a human out there, so the reaction to it is gonna be what it is regardless. The discussion tends to be a lot more…focused and less calling people authoritarians and pedos when we actually address the elephant in the room, so I might as well do it in the main post instead of a comment.
I’m just a college student that’s not that well informed on why this is being used as a canary in the coalmine, but I’ll let y’all have at it.
Cause it's a door you DON'T want to open. Because you're dictating fictional content to be banned than the sensible approach of giving age appropriate content to....the ages appropriate. No one, but leftists, is advocating giving porn to kids, even the lolicons.
I don't, it's a drawing. I'm not giving human rights to a drawing just as much as I'm not giving human rights to my roomba let alone if we make a robot with advanced AI. They aren't living things so don't apply 'living rights' to inanimate objects.
You don't like it, don't view it since because it's niche it's only on certain websites and places that have similar art. If you're talking about loli in general, that's a body type like Milf or Tomboy is a body type. There are actually women petite and short with that body type, a lot from Asia so no surprise it's in their art. If you're exclusively about the sexual stuff where they appear underage, I don't like it but it's a drawing so won't search for it so don't see it, like how I don't have a Twitter account so have extremely limited interaction with Ethots.
Tired of the same argument that loli stuff be banned in the west because it's 'incompatible with our society' meanwhile the rest of the world thinks effective advertising for the West is putting a tranny on screen while their home advertising is cute girls or families happy together. This ain't a good hill mate.
Fucking thank you. You are always the MVP of these threads.
Exactly. It's an extremely dangerous slippery slope, and I think it amounts to falling for a leftist trap. Basically, the right has to go hard, or be very careful about handing ammunition to the left. Unless they're going to take over everything and go full authoritarian, unless they're going to fight by leftist rules and abandon their principles, this will backfire hugely.
I've said it before, but I think the most dangerous attack is getting a foot in the door on government age-verification. And the thing people fail to realize is, it's not just "asking children" for ID. You by definition don't know their age until you get their ID, so this is asking everyone, and it goes downhill very fast to stopping adults from looking at certain content. "Think of the children" is bullshit manipulation, and the right is falling for it.
My go to example is, imagine if they push the gun purchasing age to 21 federally. I can easily see the government telling adults (18, 19, 20) they can't access firearm content. And, by extension, any sort of militia or even general freedom or anti-government content. It's not even that far down the slippery slope. There's no limiting principle.
The right is retarded to push more authoritarianism, even if we agree the morals are correct, if they're not willing to go all the way. If we want to ban loli/porn, it can't be done while leftists control law and society. Any attempt will backfire massively. The right is once again trying to operative within the current framework, when they can't win within the current framework. This can't be done halfheartedly. Unless they go full authoritarian or Rules for Radicals (which I'm not advocating for, by the way), any laws made is just more tools for the leftists currently in power to oppress us more. This isn't about porn, this isn't about loli. This really is, for me, about a very real worry that this will all come down on people like us, the enemies of the Regime.
Basically remember the Patriot Act? Remember the left in charge with the Patriot act in effect?
Now imagine the left in charge when you've handed them the power to ban and censor anything that goes against THEIR morals. As we don't have any studies because they all get blocked on if this stuff DOES effect pedophilia whether it increases rates of assault or if it turns out to be like the studies into violent video games where it actually lessens aggression by being a cathartic release.
I keep fiction and reality seperate for a reason, the west is so concerned about fiction OVER reality that they've:
Diversified historically based fiction, added current day politics to them, race and gender swapped roles, banned older content deemed 'too offensive for the current times' and suppressed anyone not playing ball.
While in reality: You have the kind of scum El Salvador ripped up their constitution to deal with entering freely in, law and order has totally broken down, people calling themselves teachers are freely grooming kids and self harm is being openly promoted as 'gender treatment'
I feel like the right is like a dog chasing cars at times, they chase after stuff with no plan or strategy and this one of those occasions you are playing into authoritarian hands saying 'ban and prosecute those making fictional content I don't like'
For clarity, I'm not proposing the authoritarian approach, merely pointing out that for people who want an actual "solution" to the "problem," this down the middle approach is going to backfire, and badly.
Correct. And I don't even see people (outside of a few freaks) trying to normalize loli. As long as it stays in private, I don't see it as a problem, especially, as you rightly point out, when we have so many other much bigger problems.
Loli isn't what's destroying our culture. As long as you're not pushing it to children (and it's the left pushing and defending that brand of degeneracy), I'm not even sure it's harmful beyond at most the individual. As an example, Japan, societally is apparently pretty wholesome and "conservative." Even though there seems to be a weird obsession with all kinds of perverted stuff (incest, loli, stalker/rape, etc.), it doesn't overflow into society/culture there. Japan can separate their (admittedly weird) fiction from reality.
They have some really weird shit, but it doesn't seem to be used subversively like similar trends are in the West. It's all about how it's used, not what is out there.
And, again, I'm in complete agreement that we have much bigger issues. Let's tackle those before this, especially if the way we're going to tackle this just ends up giving our enemies more tools to oppress us.
The left will do what they want regardless
And maybe the right shouldn't help them erode our rights, is my incredibly controversial point...
IMO: Porn actually has rotted society and we’re just beginning to see the effects of 3 generations having near unlimited access to it, and this whole topic is just a portion of it.
No, officer, I swear she said she was 900!
One thing I will say, if I'm getting your point correctly about the 'reaction' part, is that the same can be said for any "immoral" pursuit, so limiting principles and logical end points become a real issue.
Why should people be exposed to violence via video games, for example? Despite it being fictional, there are real people who will be reacting to it, after all. Same goes for any entertainment, really. Bread and circuses in many ways should be condemned. It depends on how purist someone wants to be. Music? Plenty of the stricter religious doctrines don't even like music or dancing. Short skirts? No, society should police that. Maybe we should go full burka.
To be clear, I'm not saying banning loli would lead to these things, I'm just saying the reasoning is the same, in trying to control what people can react to. It's, at the endpoint, about controlling people, not the media or content in question.
Alright, unpopular opinion from someone who comes down on the more "pro-loli" (I want to be clear I'm not a fan, but I defend its existence on freedom/speech grounds) side, but we do have some genuinely very questionable people here. Here's my hot take: Some of the people, even here, defending loli are at the very least pedo-adjacent, which is why they care about the issue. But it's not everyone, but it is certainly a contributing factor to the passion with which it often gets defended.
Other reasons it gets so much attention, though, is just because it's one of the things that are currently being banned in some places. So it's just a natural reaction if you apply freedom-related principles. In that respect it's sort of like why the leftist masses are so adamant about drag queen story hour and porn in schools. It's a little different since these are issues that they care about to begin with, and their masters were pushing it (the powers on the right aren't pushing loli, far from it, thankfully), but the kneejerk reaction from the masses is the same. They see something being attacked - rightly or wrongly - and want to defend it. So you have the more libertarian-right defending loli/porn on speech grounds because they see it being attacked by the more traditionalist right.
Also, I will say I don't think banning it is the way to go. But I admit I could be wrong. I've made slippery slope arguments in the past (mostly in regards to porn bans/internet ID verification) where I (I think correctly) point out that if the government is age-gating people - which by definition includes age-checking adults because you don't know the age pre-verification - from content deemed not suitable for certain ages, you very easily can see them starting to age gate legal adults from content like guns if they succeed in raising the purchase age to 21. So I think that's very dangerous.
Point is, and I realize this is utopian/unrealistic, it's more a thought experiment and not even something I'm advocating for, but I think it has to come from the culture, not the law. The culture is what needs fixing, and I don't think more authoritarian laws are the answer. As mentioned, I think it makes things worse. If you want to use the past as a guideline, one answer is to reform the churches, have them push more morals. A religious/Christian society is why there wasn't as much lewdness back in the day, arguably. I think a focus on culture, perhaps religion, is the answer, not directly attacking freedoms via the law. Also, retaking education is incredibly important, as the degenerate culture is stemming from how children are being raised, and we've ceded their upbringing to the government and modern teachers.
Again, I even admit I could be wrong, as laws can also create culture. Anything that discourages a behavior will natural shift perspectives, but I still think there are better ways to do it that don't - in my opinion - chip away at free expression. I would prefer it to be largely voluntary; again, take on culture and education.
People have an emotional response to the topic. They will create explanations backwards from the solution they want to explain and justify anything.
That's why this topic is useless to keep spamming. People who have strong opinions on it won't be moved.
Me attacking loli porn: this shit is degenerate and has no place in a healthy society, so I need an argument to get rid of it
Pedos defending loli porn: I desperately want to fuck children but they will kill me if I try, so I need the release valve of cartoon child porn, and I will protect it by adopting an absolutist position on free speech
Just because we’re all “rationalizing” animals doesn’t mean we’re all the same.
That is what I'm saying.
Ban the topic, it isn't useful to discuss. And ban the people who bring it up, they are either spergs who don't really contribute anything anyway, or are subversives you actively working against the forum.
The only question that needs answering is can a guy watch that trash now and not abuse children in the future? The answer is yes. There's no reliable evidence that one leads to the other. Since this fetish is too taboo, lets look at an another one.. vore porn for example. There's been a massive increase in voraphiliac content, yet, there hasn't been an increase in cannibalism or suicide by being eaten. You can count the number of cases like this on one hand. Yet there's million of subscribers to vore communities, patreon artists are making massive bank drawing this shit, etc. If jacking off to a sexual fetish art piece led to action, why would this not apply to this fetish? The answer is simple, it doesn't work that way.
The main predictor of crime against another person is not the entertainment you enjoy, it's your self control and your respect for the social contract. Both are hard to quantify and honestly, if the leftists were to decide how we measure it, Kia members would be the first to be jailed. Some people here seem to think living in the 'Minority Report' is a good idea... it's not for obvious reasons.
Also, for all those saying it leads to brain rot or whatever nonsense.. well they used to say them same thing of homosexuality yet we had people like Alan Turing who contributed more to society than all of us ever will. What people jack off too doesn't define who they are. Only fucking wokies want identities to be built around sexuality. Are you woke? No? Then fuck off. Tolerance, not acceptance.
The answer is fucking no. You faggots keep parroting literal pro pedo proganda they tried to use to justify CP. Indulging in deviant sexual arousal makes someone more likely to offend
Did ableist make EVEN MORE accounts? Would you hang yourself already, you degenerate faggot. I blocked you so I wouldn't have to see your constant whinging about people judging your goddamn porn. You're as obnoxious as the furfags now.
Lol no, I’m indifferent to the existence of it but the people who like it are pretty weird
The term has been lolicon, which is jap slang for pedo. The bisexual faggot pet name for it that only ableist uses is the weeb equivalent of pedos calling themselves MAPs instead and instantly makes me want to start lighting people on fire.
OP was clearly referencing current threads, though, and even had the term in quotes.
Continually engaging in a behavior creates dopamine reward pathways in the brain. Reinforcing those pathways creates a thought funnel that shapes behavior. For vidya addicts, we get happy chemicals from +1s and level-up chimes. For stoners, the stench of skunk puts a smile on their face, even if it's actual roadkill.
If you degenerates (you know who you are) continually jerk it to fictional children, you're going to suffer intrusive thoughts where actual children trigger the same nerves, and at that point, you're going to need a field expedient lobotomy to fix the problem.
What's fascinating to me is we have seen, on this very board, pro-loli advocates decry the rise of incest/step-cest porn, despite it also being (in all accessible forms) fictional.
I don't want people to need a new hole in their head, so I advise them to stay off the road to Hell.
I suspect that a number of prominent pro-loli advocates are actually 'vegetarian' pedophiles - like the fictional trope of a vampire who only drinks the blood of the non-sentient. They feel that without their substitute, they'll end up doing actual harm to others, not just themselves.
Those people need to stop immediately, seek help, and keep a high-caliber handgun or internal combustion automobile and sealed garage handy in case the detox fails.
Freedom includes freedom to do the wrong thing.
That is why "freedom" is retarded as an ends in itself.
Liberty is the freedom to choose how you go about doing the right thing. That is the correct goal.
Good line. Strong rhetoric in this post.
it was around for decades and it was never an issue until people decided to make it an issue . No one even thought much about it in the past because it was niche in the first place , yet people wanted to bring attention to something niche (especially tourists that only just recently came in to anime) that didnt do anything for decades just to create a drama out of it whilst ignoring real issues.
I remember a girl at my university saying she had a crush on a shota character. If i were to go by the standards some people today are pushing, i would have to call her a pedo even though she is not . Of course people tend to get upset over loli yet ignore shota cause they are feminists.
I can never agree to treating fictional characters like they are real .
Want to talk about banning? We should ban discussion of it on this board.
It is just a grenade that gets rolled into right-leaning communities to split the lolberts away from the Christians and traditionalists and to make us look retarded to any new person who happens to come by.
Arguably worse in some ways. As I mentioned in my other posts, the right are being authoritarians on the issue...while the left still hold all institutional power.
This will backfire massively, this is certain segments of the right being absolutely retarded and handing power not to "good Christian conservatives," but essentially to leftists who hate us, since they're setting precedent but don't control the narrative or institutions.
At least what the left are doing is largely inline with their goals. What the right is doing is attempting to fight for their beliefs but just helping the left further.
I get what you're saying, but I think they do honestly dislike loli, and I get why. Although for me the issue is whether or not real children are hurt, I can see why people coming from a different angle link it to CP, the latter of which is very obviously bad.
Fair enough, though. They're certainly picking a stupid fight, and demanding everyone bow to them or else admit their moral inferiority. Pretty annoying - and counterproductive - stuff.
If you like loli you're a pedophile. If you defend it as not being pedophilia then you're still a pedophile
To be fair, the United States from 1776 to around 1950 is the exact type of society he wants
It's the exact type of society everyone should want.
Unless you are a retarded anarchist you realize every aspect of civilization from property rights to self defense requires exercise of authority.
The question that people who aren't retarded argue of is in what situations that exercise is proper.
Authoritarian != totalitarian. Gay commies are totalitarian, actual strong civilization is authoritarian.
The people who don't like the person exercising the authority will always call it "authoritarianism". There is no point in running away from that label, it just paralyzes you, which is what the gay commies rely on.
But lets pretend you know what you are talking out. Why don't you explain for the class what you think the difference between authority and authoritarianism, and also what the difference is between authoritarianism and totalitarianism.
Looking forward to your failure of a reply.
Authoritarianism is a pejorative against exercise of (mostly) governmental authority, used formerly by dissidents and now by pretty much everyone when the government does something they don't like.
But you made a distinction without a difference. Every government exercises authority and every one of those exercises can be justified as "absolutely necessary" depending on who is holding the gun. The gay commies will say arresting the January 6th protestors and prosecuting President Trump is absolutely necessary. FDR would say interning the ethnic japanese americans was absolutely necessary. The Indonesia 1965 government will say killing all of the commies was absolutely necessary.
Has there ever been a functioning government that wasn't "authoritarian?"
Exactly why you can't operate exclusively on friend-enemy distinction and, as I mentioned in my other response, you have to meld it with principles.
Authoritarianism is dangerous because it renders the people powerless, and lets a select few bend them to their will, regardless of what that will is, and if it's good or bad.
Uh, personal authority is not authoritarianism. The less the government is involved, at least on this issue, the more free you are to exercise your "authority" in self defense.
Also, as I've said in other comments, there's a huge difference between legislating morality, and legislating against harm or violation. There's a huge difference between positive and negative rights.
We make laws to protect people's rights and freedoms, not their feelings.
It's illegal to murder, steal, rape, or take advantage of someone who doesn't have agency (e.g. children), because that directly infringes on the rights of the victim. Immoral or distasteful fiction that does not involve any parties that are nonconsenting or lacking agency, and whose consumption thereof is entirely voluntary (i.e. not pushed in schools and the like) does not have a victim. So in that respect there's a very clear line, which is why some people think "authority" is fine to be leveraged in one scenario, but not the other.
Look I was also a lolbert before I grew up. But world war T made it clear, live and let live is not an option. If you read any of the gay commie "theory" you will see that they have no stopping point and their pursuit of their "ultimate goal" will always end in total human extinction.
More gay commies enjoy and partake and PUBLICLY SUPPORT degenerate porn than our people do. Therefore making possession of it a criminal offense is a net win for us.
You think in principles, the other side thinks in friend-enemy distinctions.
We can argue over DMs why the non aggression pact and most other lolbert concepts are retarded but that isn't the issue of the day here.
Firstly, you didn't address any of my points. Secondly, as I've said repeatedly, the left still controls everything. If you want to go totalitarian, can you fucking please at least wait until you take over everything first?! That's my big issue; this is counterproductive.
If you want to be authoritarian, there's a right way to do it, and a correct order in which to do it. Doing it out of order just blows up in your face. Take back the culture, take back education, then we can talk about whether we should ban "degeneracy" or not. That's my point.
I admit I do have libertarian leanings still, but I try to come at everything from a practical angle, and can have an honest discussion about libertarianism versus authoritarianism, and see the points of the latter too. Again, my point is this seems utterly impractical.
And if you embrace their viewpoint, you'll have no endpoint either. You have to meld both; you have to acknowledge friend-enemy distinction, but you also have to have principles, or you have nothing. You also have to do things in a sensible way, which porn bans at present are absolutely not.
Again, not as long as they control the majority of the institutions. Unless you're in a position to operate the majority of levers of power, you're just giving them more power, even if you believe you're hurting them in the short term.
The majority of the legal system favors the left, despite their disproportionate criminality and harmfulness. Why the fuck would you want to write more laws chipping away at certain rights, while they still maintain power?
That sounds even gayer than arguing over a public forum, I'll have to decline.
The end point is normalcy where gay commie subversion is recognized, disregarded, and the people who are engaging in it are exiled.
What exactly are you afraid of them doing that they aren't doing now?
How do you figure? Just because you say so, doesn't make it so.
For starters, doing away with nice things like the First and Second Amendments, if we continue helping them along the path. They're fucking terrible already, but could be so much worse. For all the faults of the current system...we could easily fuck things up much harder, and hand even more power to them.
I take it you're referring to this post you made a while back? https://communities.win/c/KotakuInAction2/p/17rSVCCedW/shower-thought-i-think-reset-the/c
Look, I don't think loli/shota should be banned because it's a good tell on who to avoid for one, but I'm going to assume you're a child predator in waiting who hasn't had an opportunity to abuse a child *yet* if you're in to that degnerate bullshit.
God help you if I know you're in to that kind of mind rot and I catch you around my kids.
There are some very suspicious people, I'll give you that.
This, however, is utter bullshit logic. And, yes, I know you're about to call me a pedo. Pedophile has a very real definition, and people can defend stuff for a wide variety of reasons. Some people defending it are absolutely pedos, no question. But not all.
That's what it keeps coming back to, and this is bullshit. Laws aren't about stopping immoral stuff, not really. That's the job of culture. We need stronger culture. Laws are more about keeping society running smoothly, and too many laws can get in the way, in fact. It's the basic man's law versus God's law debate. There are plenty of things that may not be pleasant, but that would be counterproductive for man to ban via law.
"Ban evil thing I don't like" is a terrible way of writing law. As someone else already said, look at drugs, alcohol, and the like. Any war via law for moralistic reasons usually damages society and good people, and just strengthens the government to do more oppressive shit down the line.
Focus on culture, not making the current system more oppressive, especially while our enemies control most of the levers of power.
And, again, you'll dismiss my arguments as 'lol, pedo,' I know. Even though I agree loli is nasty stuff, and just disagree on your solutions.
Thank god the War on Drugs and all Gun Control managed to curb those dangerous situations too.
You can do better than simple "you must be baddie!" accusation. Come on.
Can he? I'm not seeing evidence of that, in this thread at least.
I'm optimistic that people are smarter than just screaming "PEDO LEFTIST PEDO LEFTIST" to justify their position.
I'm usually wrong on that, but it provides me a chuckle at the least when they try.
-Lethn, 2023.
Why are you still here if you think we are pedos? If you really think we are pedos why are you staying in a place full of pedos as you claim?