Exactly. Why the fucking hard-on for Ukraine? This isn't WWII, and the best the US can get out of this is a weakened and embarrassed Russia, who still controls most of Europe's gas and a bunch of other trade goods.
I don't think setting a "I can do everything short of sending my own troops to your enemy" as the standard in these sorts of situations is a good thing. Historically, the US engages in far more foreign adventures than Russia, and we're just asking them to donate their very best equipment to whoever we end up invading next.
Not to mention the whole problem of creating incentive for countries to create fake wars to get free money from American tax payers and the politicians taking kickbacks.
It's poking the bear. Literally the opposite of what you want to do to win wars.
If you want to go to war, do it fast and completely obliterate or demoralize the enemy. If you want to avoid war, make it clear that that's what you're going to do.
Don't play this game where you enrage them and then run back over the line daring them to attack you.
Nah, the best we get out of this is Russia taking over Ukraine anyway and stealing all the weapons our politicians gave them for who knows what shady favors.
We get a war, of course. Russia will be forced to intervene against us because Ukraine can only resist while being backed by an unlimited supply of arms and ammo.
All this to protect a non-NATO country, because Putin Man Bad.
Or Afghanistan (US and Russia both did that to each other there). But America also didn’t have a senile old man who is very likely linked to some very corrupt business dealings in the invaded country.
What can literally be worse that isn't already known at this point?
We know he extorted foreign nations as VP.
We know he had inappropriate showers with his daughter.
We know his son made an incest sextape with his grand daughter.
We know that covid was created jointly between China and The Obama Admin with Fauci being a key player.
We know that multiple cures were covered up, while at the same time a treatment that murdered patients with remdesivir was pushed.
We know that the mRNA vacs are poison that have massively increased cancer, infertility, heart attacks, blood clots, myocarditis, neurological problems. That they've almost certainly killed more than 100,000 people in the US alone.
As if the Russian's haven't gotten their hands on that already. Frankly, I think at least half of their dirty laundry from Ukraine specifically is already in public view, if not more (barring specifics and nitty gritty detail). There is enough public circumstantial evidence that would damn any other ordinary fool in the public eye or the news...but the corruption within our own organizations runs too deep to.
The people in this country are so stupid they don't realize they're just participating in a power struggle. They think they are in a good vs evil battle, that's the sick part. You can trust someone who has a clear self interest to act in that interest. People who legitimately believe they act for the "good of humanity" are basically just narcissistic psychopaths.
Im really not interested in WW3 for an area of land that 95% of Americans couldn’t spot on a map prior to the invasion, and only 15% could post invasion. I feel bad for the Ukrainian people. I feel bad for the Russian people. This is a pointless war. But we should not be involved. And if we have to get involved could we not broadcast it to the Russians. Do they have to broadcast we are shipping them more ammo, missiles, and medical supplies.
Do they have to broadcast we are shipping them more ammo, missiles, and medical supplies.
This is a very good point. Another poster mentioned Russian assistance to Vietnam, which was extensive. The difference is that they just sent the shit and didn't advertise it.
Bragging about how much and what type of war material we are sending over there just invites the obvious conclusion that it's a de facto declaration of war.
Like we knew they were doing it, they knew we knew they were doing it. But they would have never admitted it. We did this same stuff in WW2 we bragged about arming one side. And I’m glad we did arm that side. But we don’t need to telegraph what we are doing. It’s like giving to charity and then bragging about giving to charity. You didn’t give to help that cause. You gave to get yourself attention. And that’s not a good reason to give to charity.
Well in WWII, Roosevelt was looking for a way to get us into the war. Pearl Harbor threw off his plans, but we were already having US Navy ships sunk by U-boats as they escorted lend-lease materials to England long before Dec 7.
I know. The major difference here is what kind of relation does America have with Ukraine vs the UK. Most Americans share a common ancestry tying them to the UK. Major Ukrainian connection is corrupt politicians make shady businesses deals there.
We gave them billions to keep the Germans fighting a 2 front war.
Best case scenario this continues the Cold War tradition of a proxy war between NATO and Russia. Worst case scenario this echos arming the Allie’s before getting pulled into WW2. And unfortunately. As what’s already been mentioned in this thread, us bragging about this brings the similarities closer to pre WW2 and less Cold War proxy war.
The only reason the Russian army could maneuver during the battle of Stalingrad is because they were driving American made trucks. During WW2 we sent the Soviets over 400,000 trucks and jeeps.
What do Americans gain from this? Could we at the very least force Ukraine to pay us in 20yo Ukrainian women having to marry our white males?
Exactly. Why the fucking hard-on for Ukraine? This isn't WWII, and the best the US can get out of this is a weakened and embarrassed Russia, who still controls most of Europe's gas and a bunch of other trade goods.
I don't think setting a "I can do everything short of sending my own troops to your enemy" as the standard in these sorts of situations is a good thing. Historically, the US engages in far more foreign adventures than Russia, and we're just asking them to donate their very best equipment to whoever we end up invading next.
Not to mention the whole problem of creating incentive for countries to create fake wars to get free money from American tax payers and the politicians taking kickbacks.
Bingo.
Follow the j...... I mean money.
It's poking the bear. Literally the opposite of what you want to do to win wars. If you want to go to war, do it fast and completely obliterate or demoralize the enemy. If you want to avoid war, make it clear that that's what you're going to do. Don't play this game where you enrage them and then run back over the line daring them to attack you.
That’s not how modern wars work. The goal is extended trafficking & money laundering as well testing out new toys.
One could argue they are Khazars with a very long feud with the Rus.
Nah, the best we get out of this is Russia taking over Ukraine anyway and stealing all the weapons our politicians gave them for who knows what shady favors.
Because the Democrats backed the Euromaidan and don't want Russia regime changing their regime change.
Because the Democrats still want to regime change Russia and are itching for any excuse to do so.
Because Hunter Biden is waist deep in corruption in Ukraine, so Joe Biden doesn't want Russia killing his kickbacks and unearthing his skeletons.
Because Biden keeps shitting the bed and he wants the stolen valour of the Ukrainian defense / a Russian scapegoat for his sabotage.
We get a war, of course. Russia will be forced to intervene against us because Ukraine can only resist while being backed by an unlimited supply of arms and ammo.
All this to protect a non-NATO country, because Putin Man Bad.
Well, America didn't intervene on the Russians when they supplied(including pilots) in North Korea and in Vietnam.
Or Afghanistan (US and Russia both did that to each other there). But America also didn’t have a senile old man who is very likely linked to some very corrupt business dealings in the invaded country.
They don't release the blackmail on the Bidens, Pelosi, Rodney's etc.
What can literally be worse that isn't already known at this point?
We know he extorted foreign nations as VP.
We know he had inappropriate showers with his daughter.
We know his son made an incest sextape with his grand daughter.
We know that covid was created jointly between China and The Obama Admin with Fauci being a key player.
We know that multiple cures were covered up, while at the same time a treatment that murdered patients with remdesivir was pushed.
We know that the mRNA vacs are poison that have massively increased cancer, infertility, heart attacks, blood clots, myocarditis, neurological problems. That they've almost certainly killed more than 100,000 people in the US alone.
As if the Russian's haven't gotten their hands on that already. Frankly, I think at least half of their dirty laundry from Ukraine specifically is already in public view, if not more (barring specifics and nitty gritty detail). There is enough public circumstantial evidence that would damn any other ordinary fool in the public eye or the news...but the corruption within our own organizations runs too deep to.
They gain the war they want. Why do you think the first lend lease happened during WWII?
The people in this country are so stupid they don't realize they're just participating in a power struggle. They think they are in a good vs evil battle, that's the sick part. You can trust someone who has a clear self interest to act in that interest. People who legitimately believe they act for the "good of humanity" are basically just narcissistic psychopaths.
Im really not interested in WW3 for an area of land that 95% of Americans couldn’t spot on a map prior to the invasion, and only 15% could post invasion. I feel bad for the Ukrainian people. I feel bad for the Russian people. This is a pointless war. But we should not be involved. And if we have to get involved could we not broadcast it to the Russians. Do they have to broadcast we are shipping them more ammo, missiles, and medical supplies.
This is a very good point. Another poster mentioned Russian assistance to Vietnam, which was extensive. The difference is that they just sent the shit and didn't advertise it.
Bragging about how much and what type of war material we are sending over there just invites the obvious conclusion that it's a de facto declaration of war.
Like we knew they were doing it, they knew we knew they were doing it. But they would have never admitted it. We did this same stuff in WW2 we bragged about arming one side. And I’m glad we did arm that side. But we don’t need to telegraph what we are doing. It’s like giving to charity and then bragging about giving to charity. You didn’t give to help that cause. You gave to get yourself attention. And that’s not a good reason to give to charity.
Well in WWII, Roosevelt was looking for a way to get us into the war. Pearl Harbor threw off his plans, but we were already having US Navy ships sunk by U-boats as they escorted lend-lease materials to England long before Dec 7.
Which makes this parallel even more concerning.
I know. The major difference here is what kind of relation does America have with Ukraine vs the UK. Most Americans share a common ancestry tying them to the UK. Major Ukrainian connection is corrupt politicians make shady businesses deals there.
We actually gave billions to Russia in WW2. I guess we're even now?
We gave them billions to keep the Germans fighting a 2 front war.
Best case scenario this continues the Cold War tradition of a proxy war between NATO and Russia. Worst case scenario this echos arming the Allie’s before getting pulled into WW2. And unfortunately. As what’s already been mentioned in this thread, us bragging about this brings the similarities closer to pre WW2 and less Cold War proxy war.
The only reason the Russian army could maneuver during the battle of Stalingrad is because they were driving American made trucks. During WW2 we sent the Soviets over 400,000 trucks and jeeps.
WW3 were declared.
Cash grab of the century.
How longer the conflict lasts the richer some americans get.
How are these weapons going to be paid for?
It's in the article, Ukraine owes the money in payment indefinitely. So never.
inflation