Pressure hones a population. Remove the pressure, the fat builds up. You're basically describing the Rat/Mouse Utopia experiments.
What supposedly happens if you give handouts to wildlife? The same thing that happens when you give handouts to humans, except the humans can get more vicious and insistent about their perceived entitlements.
In the long run, it's a self-correcting problem, as the next generation will be too useless to even feed itself.
It's broadly called "getting spoilt rotten". A whole population of spoilt rotten people ....
This for a lot of things. Problem you encounter here tho is social peer pressure to avoid anachronism.
"Ugh your parents are so old fashioned"
My kids don't believe me when I tell them they have it easy half arsed lazily cleaning their rooms, when at 12, I was cleaning stables, field picking, gardening and taking the five mile walk to school alone. I did my year in cadets and attempted service (medical discharge apparently being near blind in an eye without glasses is a no no, cant wear contacts) Not for pocket money. That was duty. To earn my place in the house.
Pocket money was 50p at the car boot. If I wanted something bigger it was birthday/Christmas money or save up.
Their natural response was to assume I was lying just to guilt them, until they spoke to grandad.
And now I'm left sitting here thinking my dad had it harder. He was a coal mine worker at 12. So I'm grateful all I did was shovel shit and march around.
But as said, my kids don't appreciate their lack of effort, purely because any attempt to apply honing pressure is met with an overwhelming social peer pressure to undo it all. "But Kevin and Stacy and Alex and Mark don't do that, so I shouldn't have to!"
There used to be babysitting and paper routes, but those apparently went by the wayside.
My money as a little kid came from change I was allowed to keep from my gofering duties. Coin change only, back long before the dollar coin, and pennies were, of course, still a thing. (But you could get a comic book for a quarter, and a bottle of Coke for 20 cents.)
This reminded me of a discussion I was having with my brother somewhat recently. We've both done pretty well, I wouldn't say rich but both comfortably in the upper half of the middle class. He was talking about saving for kids colleges and my suggestion was actually to not do that and instead just make clear to his kids that as far as education expense goes figure it out yourself essentially, as that's how we were raised.
The fact of the matter is we both figured it out in our own ways and without loans or free money from parents. I worked and paid my way through, it took about six years and was hard and there was no time for the "go off and find yourself at the indoctrination camp" college life. It was something I did when I wasn't at work to get a piece of paper. Looking back, I wouldn't change a thing. Starting off in my mid 20s with zero debt to my name and continuous legit work history going back to when I was 16 was a springboard into the rest of my life that getting a handout could have never provided.
What you're describing is a roundabout way of saying that for a society to remain healthy it needs to instill certain cultural and social values in each new generation.
Leftists would call these "institutions". Why do you think they went after everything from K-12 to comic books? Videogames, movies, TV, commercials, comics, books... these aren't just timewasters or hobbies and diversions. SJWs understand that these are the ways society tells itself stories about itself.
Just look at the Federation's internal culture Star Trek TNG and DS9. With matter replicators the concept of money and wealth is pointless, you can have any thing at any time. But at the same time private enterprise is still thriving. We see private freighters and transports, inventors, we even a privately owned family restaurant.
It works because the culture written for Star Trek's Federation is an idealized form of protestant work ethic. The entire Federation is based on a culture of striving to build things and explore. People want to work, they embrace challenge and even hardship.
That's the power of institutions. You don't need to dial back technology and the economy to make things suck again, you need to dial back the self-destructive perversion of social and cultural institutions that have run rampant on both the left and the right thanks to Bezos and his buddies.
The problem with that view is "too much success". It will vary wildly person to person. Because the problem isn't "too much success". The problem is related to too much success, sure, but the real problem is resting on your laurels. Becoming complacent. "Good Times Create Weak Men"? You can't throw Atilla The Hun a nice birthday party and turn him into a simp cuck. Atilla probably had a LOT of good times, given the amount of people sharing his genetics. Good times don't directly create weak men, they simply allow for, and even reward, their existence, causing them to outbreed the growth and success ones, bringing collapse.
You speak as if seeking growth is the malignancy, the cancer. But ironically (given cancer's form) in that growth can keep you ever-afloat: Infinite growth is not only possible, but necessary. It is the moment we STOP growing, that it crashes down, and your suggestion here would implement that.
It's socialism: "Do not produce more than your neighbor." "Do not excel in science more than the dumbest person." "Stagnate." "Success is dangerous: Winning only brings failure down the line." "You can't have a nightmare if you never have dreams."
And I fundamentally disagree with that worldview.
So long as we have hardship, we can continue to create good times. That hardship, though, should NOT come from limiting humanity. Humans are fantastically limited creatures. There is no end to their limitations. We have hardships all around, if we're willing to shake off the yoke of complacency, the plateau of "good enough", and identify them. I will die one day. That's a huge limitation. I can't lift up my house. Not an important limitation perhaps, but one nonetheless. I need very specific chemical intakes to stay alive, and even a 2% change in oxygen content in the air causes me damage. It's a hardship of all humanity.
But like the collapse of Rome, the hardships the worthless plebs think of are "food", "circus", and "sex", and our society has even shamed that last one out of Maslow's hierarchy. They eat good food, watch fun shows, and they're content. And so they do not progress, for they are content.
People RIGHT NOW are doing your idea: They're slacking. They're coasting. They're letting society fall apart. They're listlessly drifting in the day-to-day, year-to-year. So if you think your idea won't lead to tragedy, great, society is careening off a cliff called "good enough" RIGHT NOW. So rejoice, young socialist: Your utopia where people are handicapped by themselves, the law, and society all in one, is nearly already here.
Only amongst the "elite" that they referred to as "The Beautiful Ones". They just sat around grooming themselves all day, like a bunch of really vain homosexuals.
The rest of the population seems to have gone psychotic and more or less failed at child-rearing.
I have a friend that is getting increasing unhinged. Hating (rich) white people and capitalism.. but then he also likes eastern euro and russian girls lol.
He hates anyone that has extra money because they all exploit cheap labor and the system. People with extra money cheat the system and to keep everyone else down. But he doesnt say how much is too much.
But he doesnt accept that most innovations and advancement is done because of money, funding or investment.
He also doesnt think its racist for blacks to target asians in the last few weeks.. but as soon as news of a white dude or two attacking asians, there is a problem with white supremacy. Im asian, he is light skinned hispanic and he claims i always try to defend white people. Well, since most white people struggle to defend and fight for themselves.. i try to use my "people of color" card to defend them. I will continue to defend them until there is "equality" and we go back to judging people not because of skin color.
Honestly.. if he wasnt a fellow gamer that ive known for years and he, like myself, likes sexiness in gaming... i dont think i wanna associate with him as he is getting more unhinged.
The problem isn't capitalism, the problem is central banking, but explaining why it's the problem requires way too much prerequisite knowledge to get the average person to understand.
I think I see what you're getting at here, in that the social constructs that surround capitalism lead to communism.
I think the breakdown is in the parenting between the generations:
Manual labor generation, works hard, teaches kids value of education and marketable skills. We'd probably call this the greatest generation.
White collar generation, relatively well off middle class. These split up, some of them teach their kids value of education and marketable skills, these go on to be the business owners. The others teach their kids to "follow their passion" and they can do whatever they want. This started with the boomers, but the boomers that had business owner kids in Gen X follow the same sort of split, so you've got some of their kids going business and others to passion.
Passion generation, this is where everything breaks. These kids go off and follow their passion and their passion sucks and doesn't provide any value. Now they are older and unqualified and the best option would be to go back to manual labor. They likely could even get high-end manual labor with the right work. But they shouldn't have to because it's not their passion, so they work at Starbucks and bitch to the government about the rich people (their parents no less) not giving them free shit and we've got the commie push.
I know myself I'd be in the later half of this, but growing up I was always encouraged to find things I like that also were valuable skills.
Right now, I think Nepal is the closest to turning to communism, it may already have done so, since the president is communist. Nepal has never had a very successful economy. I'd say same is true for many other countries that turned to communism; the economy was going extremely poorly. So I don't think your cause and effect really holds up, except for spoiled kids who dig Che Guevara, often creating a lot of issues while growing up. Of course some of these never grow up and become professors in gender studies.
the guys in the middle want to be the ones at the top
the guys at the bottom, when their lives aren't so terrible that they can actually care to look around, want a world that is fairer
every fucking generation some of the guys in the middle attempt to use some fucking propaganda to recruit the people at the bottom to become cannon fodder for the "revolution", by promising them a "fair" world, while they are just using them to get at the top. with a lot of people meanwhile drinking the entire propaganda ploy. when the orchestrators finally seize the power and they are now the guys at the top, they redesign the system to assign key roles to their loyal dogs and shove back to the bottom the guys from the bottom who helped them. the useless rabble is back to being fucking useless.
this is the propaganda they use every fucking time:
take the people
split them into two factions X and Y According to ARBITRARY criteria
make sure the criteria are things you cannot change (the color of your skin, the blood in your veins, your religion, the place you were born, the deeds of your ancestors, etc)
declare X the oppressors and Y the oppressed
find some local anecdote where X hurt Y and frame it in a way that it looks like this is the general tendency
if you cannot find any anecdote, fabricated it
propaganda long enough until you convince people in their hearts that Y is the protagonist and X is the villain
Y doing abominable acts again X is now allowed, is not aggression, is not a crime, is JUSTICE!
seized power, reward and bribe useful people, persecute and mangle the rest under submission
redefine X and Y find a new oppressor keep the crusade rolling
sometimes X is Jews and Y is deutschfolk, sometimes X is capitalism and Y is the working class, sometimes X is the white supremacy and Y is the minorites... sometimes is the patriarchy, sometimes... you got the gist?
Pressure hones a population. Remove the pressure, the fat builds up. You're basically describing the Rat/Mouse Utopia experiments.
What supposedly happens if you give handouts to wildlife? The same thing that happens when you give handouts to humans, except the humans can get more vicious and insistent about their perceived entitlements.
In the long run, it's a self-correcting problem, as the next generation will be too useless to even feed itself.
It's broadly called "getting spoilt rotten". A whole population of spoilt rotten people ....
What would shutting it all down look like? It seems impossible.
This for a lot of things. Problem you encounter here tho is social peer pressure to avoid anachronism.
"Ugh your parents are so old fashioned"
My kids don't believe me when I tell them they have it easy half arsed lazily cleaning their rooms, when at 12, I was cleaning stables, field picking, gardening and taking the five mile walk to school alone. I did my year in cadets and attempted service (medical discharge apparently being near blind in an eye without glasses is a no no, cant wear contacts) Not for pocket money. That was duty. To earn my place in the house.
Pocket money was 50p at the car boot. If I wanted something bigger it was birthday/Christmas money or save up.
Their natural response was to assume I was lying just to guilt them, until they spoke to grandad.
And now I'm left sitting here thinking my dad had it harder. He was a coal mine worker at 12. So I'm grateful all I did was shovel shit and march around.
But as said, my kids don't appreciate their lack of effort, purely because any attempt to apply honing pressure is met with an overwhelming social peer pressure to undo it all. "But Kevin and Stacy and Alex and Mark don't do that, so I shouldn't have to!"
There used to be babysitting and paper routes, but those apparently went by the wayside.
My money as a little kid came from change I was allowed to keep from my gofering duties. Coin change only, back long before the dollar coin, and pennies were, of course, still a thing. (But you could get a comic book for a quarter, and a bottle of Coke for 20 cents.)
This reminded me of a discussion I was having with my brother somewhat recently. We've both done pretty well, I wouldn't say rich but both comfortably in the upper half of the middle class. He was talking about saving for kids colleges and my suggestion was actually to not do that and instead just make clear to his kids that as far as education expense goes figure it out yourself essentially, as that's how we were raised.
The fact of the matter is we both figured it out in our own ways and without loans or free money from parents. I worked and paid my way through, it took about six years and was hard and there was no time for the "go off and find yourself at the indoctrination camp" college life. It was something I did when I wasn't at work to get a piece of paper. Looking back, I wouldn't change a thing. Starting off in my mid 20s with zero debt to my name and continuous legit work history going back to when I was 16 was a springboard into the rest of my life that getting a handout could have never provided.
What you're describing is a roundabout way of saying that for a society to remain healthy it needs to instill certain cultural and social values in each new generation.
Leftists would call these "institutions". Why do you think they went after everything from K-12 to comic books? Videogames, movies, TV, commercials, comics, books... these aren't just timewasters or hobbies and diversions. SJWs understand that these are the ways society tells itself stories about itself.
Just look at the Federation's internal culture Star Trek TNG and DS9. With matter replicators the concept of money and wealth is pointless, you can have any thing at any time. But at the same time private enterprise is still thriving. We see private freighters and transports, inventors, we even a privately owned family restaurant.
It works because the culture written for Star Trek's Federation is an idealized form of protestant work ethic. The entire Federation is based on a culture of striving to build things and explore. People want to work, they embrace challenge and even hardship.
That's the power of institutions. You don't need to dial back technology and the economy to make things suck again, you need to dial back the self-destructive perversion of social and cultural institutions that have run rampant on both the left and the right thanks to Bezos and his buddies.
No offense, but that's vague as hell and just saying "it's possible" doesn't make it so.
If business A is getting too successful and the owner decides to scale back, business B will simply pick up the slack.
The only way it would work is if the government had control of everything, but that would be a disaster.
The problem with that view is "too much success". It will vary wildly person to person. Because the problem isn't "too much success". The problem is related to too much success, sure, but the real problem is resting on your laurels. Becoming complacent. "Good Times Create Weak Men"? You can't throw Atilla The Hun a nice birthday party and turn him into a simp cuck. Atilla probably had a LOT of good times, given the amount of people sharing his genetics. Good times don't directly create weak men, they simply allow for, and even reward, their existence, causing them to outbreed the growth and success ones, bringing collapse.
You speak as if seeking growth is the malignancy, the cancer. But ironically (given cancer's form) in that growth can keep you ever-afloat: Infinite growth is not only possible, but necessary. It is the moment we STOP growing, that it crashes down, and your suggestion here would implement that.
It's socialism: "Do not produce more than your neighbor." "Do not excel in science more than the dumbest person." "Stagnate." "Success is dangerous: Winning only brings failure down the line." "You can't have a nightmare if you never have dreams."
And I fundamentally disagree with that worldview.
So long as we have hardship, we can continue to create good times. That hardship, though, should NOT come from limiting humanity. Humans are fantastically limited creatures. There is no end to their limitations. We have hardships all around, if we're willing to shake off the yoke of complacency, the plateau of "good enough", and identify them. I will die one day. That's a huge limitation. I can't lift up my house. Not an important limitation perhaps, but one nonetheless. I need very specific chemical intakes to stay alive, and even a 2% change in oxygen content in the air causes me damage. It's a hardship of all humanity.
But like the collapse of Rome, the hardships the worthless plebs think of are "food", "circus", and "sex", and our society has even shamed that last one out of Maslow's hierarchy. They eat good food, watch fun shows, and they're content. And so they do not progress, for they are content.
People RIGHT NOW are doing your idea: They're slacking. They're coasting. They're letting society fall apart. They're listlessly drifting in the day-to-day, year-to-year. So if you think your idea won't lead to tragedy, great, society is careening off a cliff called "good enough" RIGHT NOW. So rejoice, young socialist: Your utopia where people are handicapped by themselves, the law, and society all in one, is nearly already here.
Isn't that the one where the males just gave up wanting females?
Males gave up, females became bad parents
You forgot the incest. Yeah, it's kind of weird how close we are to that experiment.
Everyone's watching incest porn, men gave up on women and women are killing their own kids.
Of course, humans are more complex, so that doesn't give the full picture.
Humans only appear more complex because we're seeing them from the inside.
Things always seem simpler when you're looking from the outside.
Only amongst the "elite" that they referred to as "The Beautiful Ones". They just sat around grooming themselves all day, like a bunch of really vain homosexuals.
The rest of the population seems to have gone psychotic and more or less failed at child-rearing.
Turns out mice can go MGTOW too. Based.
Sounds like humanity, ironically.
Freddie's video
I have a friend that is getting increasing unhinged. Hating (rich) white people and capitalism.. but then he also likes eastern euro and russian girls lol.
He hates anyone that has extra money because they all exploit cheap labor and the system. People with extra money cheat the system and to keep everyone else down. But he doesnt say how much is too much.
But he doesnt accept that most innovations and advancement is done because of money, funding or investment.
He also doesnt think its racist for blacks to target asians in the last few weeks.. but as soon as news of a white dude or two attacking asians, there is a problem with white supremacy. Im asian, he is light skinned hispanic and he claims i always try to defend white people. Well, since most white people struggle to defend and fight for themselves.. i try to use my "people of color" card to defend them. I will continue to defend them until there is "equality" and we go back to judging people not because of skin color.
Honestly.. if he wasnt a fellow gamer that ive known for years and he, like myself, likes sexiness in gaming... i dont think i wanna associate with him as he is getting more unhinged.
The problem isn't capitalism, the problem is central banking, but explaining why it's the problem requires way too much prerequisite knowledge to get the average person to understand.
I think I see what you're getting at here, in that the social constructs that surround capitalism lead to communism.
I think the breakdown is in the parenting between the generations:
I know myself I'd be in the later half of this, but growing up I was always encouraged to find things I like that also were valuable skills.
Right now, I think Nepal is the closest to turning to communism, it may already have done so, since the president is communist. Nepal has never had a very successful economy. I'd say same is true for many other countries that turned to communism; the economy was going extremely poorly. So I don't think your cause and effect really holds up, except for spoiled kids who dig Che Guevara, often creating a lot of issues while growing up. Of course some of these never grow up and become professors in gender studies.
I think Myanmar is closest. If the "coup" fails, it falls straight to the UN's chosen one.
in this world there 3 kinds of people
the guys at the top
the guys in the middle
the guys at the bottom
the guys at the top want to stay at the top
the guys in the middle want to be the ones at the top
the guys at the bottom, when their lives aren't so terrible that they can actually care to look around, want a world that is fairer
every fucking generation some of the guys in the middle attempt to use some fucking propaganda to recruit the people at the bottom to become cannon fodder for the "revolution", by promising them a "fair" world, while they are just using them to get at the top. with a lot of people meanwhile drinking the entire propaganda ploy. when the orchestrators finally seize the power and they are now the guys at the top, they redesign the system to assign key roles to their loyal dogs and shove back to the bottom the guys from the bottom who helped them. the useless rabble is back to being fucking useless.
this is the propaganda they use every fucking time:
take the people
split them into two factions X and Y According to ARBITRARY criteria
make sure the criteria are things you cannot change (the color of your skin, the blood in your veins, your religion, the place you were born, the deeds of your ancestors, etc)
declare X the oppressors and Y the oppressed
find some local anecdote where X hurt Y and frame it in a way that it looks like this is the general tendency
if you cannot find any anecdote, fabricated it
propaganda long enough until you convince people in their hearts that Y is the protagonist and X is the villain
Y doing abominable acts again X is now allowed, is not aggression, is not a crime, is JUSTICE!
seized power, reward and bribe useful people, persecute and mangle the rest under submission
redefine X and Y find a new oppressor keep the crusade rolling
sometimes X is Jews and Y is deutschfolk, sometimes X is capitalism and Y is the working class, sometimes X is the white supremacy and Y is the minorites... sometimes is the patriarchy, sometimes... you got the gist?
Ah, but class politics is so Victorian ....
And since capitalism allows upward, downward, and sideways mobility, class is something that is easy to change in a free society.
Citizenship has become similarly fluid and "bi", as one can carry multiple passports.