Hell, still in Italy but centuries later, Machiavelli HATED using mercenaries as city guards as they weren't loyal and could be bought by the enemy or if they were losing, could abandon posts or switch sides.
He ensured the city guard were made up of local men as they were defending their HOME so new if they failed, their families might be in danger. He even wrote a book about this and how to rule, pity the only one these leaders read is 1984 as a guide..
As a German with a history degree I giggle a bit. Keep in mind, we didn't try to take over, Rome couldn't expand into various territories. They'd claim 'decisive' victories and then a few years later move the walls back further.
The Germans on the other hand continued to try to trade with Romans. They had an elaborate gate system to enter into Rome, which could be bypassed. Then Rome demanded a special mark on the papers to allow trading. This wasn't useful a few miles inward so that was ignored.
My direct ancestors were used for war. They were so good that eventually Rome had only German soldiers marching around. This worked till Caeser decided he wasn't going to pay us, or some other fool thought it wise to show a decisive win.
In every case it was a perceived dominance vs the reality surrounding them.
We can point to the European colonies in the same way. The native tribes often thought of themselves as dominant and the Europeans as somewhat useful trade partners. It was only after the Europeans took over that the stories of guns germs and steel were told. Even old Western movies didn't show this dominance.
So, a group that is perceived to be useless and easy to manipulate slowly taking over has quite a bit of precedence. China happens to have it as part of their culture. They destroyed more civilizations and made them Chinese this way than any time they had a superior army.
The problem is these ideas take time. It's not a single generation that does it, but multiple generations. Germans didn't go from outsiders to rulers overnight.
But, then we have to realize the mechanism for that slow down was the speed of travel at that time. Germans could travel faster than Romans. It's actually why so many middle eastern people have trade as a major part of their culture, they are the roads to other lands.
Today, I can drive from Aberdeen to London in 8ish hours depending on traffic. I can get to the other side of Europe in a day pretty easily. I can contact people and do trade with someone around the world with my phone.
Then we have to include propaganda. The English are the best at it. They convinced German Submarine leadership to not use the most effective method for submarines during world war I. They almost convinced the Irish that it was ok to be British. They convinced themselves that they were winning battles in Africa and Europe throughout world war II. All major propaganda is based on their methods and the Canadian system has used it directly.
The Byzantine Empire had the Varangian guards (Vikings). They could no longer trust their own forces and political rivalries were out of control--bring in foreigners who could at least be bought.
The Ottoman Empires had the Janissaries (converted Christians mostly from the Balkans). Ditto.
Heck, the Gurkhas in British India were the elite forces of the British army for more than a century. Tens of thousands of Gurkhas fought for and served the British in World War 2.
Perhaps a leading indicator of a nation in grave decline.
The king in french revolution also had swiss mercenaries to defend his palace
Fun fact: the national day of France is the day of the Bastille, the day the revolution took over the Bastille prison. The prison was manned by mercenaries. Mercenaries lost 2 soldiers (they surrendered after running out of ammo/supplies), Revolutionaries lost 300+ lol.
How long did it lasted with other examples you mentioned? Just wondering if I can safely age away in my small UK village before minorities decide to take over or should I start slowly evacuating back to Poland.
It's both hilarious and sad. Any historians here can make parrarels to ancient rome and it's reliance on barbarians?
Hell, still in Italy but centuries later, Machiavelli HATED using mercenaries as city guards as they weren't loyal and could be bought by the enemy or if they were losing, could abandon posts or switch sides.
He ensured the city guard were made up of local men as they were defending their HOME so new if they failed, their families might be in danger. He even wrote a book about this and how to rule, pity the only one these leaders read is 1984 as a guide..
they read the Protocols as a guide
A sort of proto-bio-leninism was it?
As a German with a history degree I giggle a bit. Keep in mind, we didn't try to take over, Rome couldn't expand into various territories. They'd claim 'decisive' victories and then a few years later move the walls back further.
The Germans on the other hand continued to try to trade with Romans. They had an elaborate gate system to enter into Rome, which could be bypassed. Then Rome demanded a special mark on the papers to allow trading. This wasn't useful a few miles inward so that was ignored.
My direct ancestors were used for war. They were so good that eventually Rome had only German soldiers marching around. This worked till Caeser decided he wasn't going to pay us, or some other fool thought it wise to show a decisive win.
In every case it was a perceived dominance vs the reality surrounding them.
We can point to the European colonies in the same way. The native tribes often thought of themselves as dominant and the Europeans as somewhat useful trade partners. It was only after the Europeans took over that the stories of guns germs and steel were told. Even old Western movies didn't show this dominance.
So, a group that is perceived to be useless and easy to manipulate slowly taking over has quite a bit of precedence. China happens to have it as part of their culture. They destroyed more civilizations and made them Chinese this way than any time they had a superior army.
So, what you're saying Saar is you'll soon be speaking Hindi Saar.
It's on my list, but I want to learn the slavics and Greek first. Also, Korean.
What time scales are we talking about here? Can I expect Jizya within my lifespan in UK?
The problem is these ideas take time. It's not a single generation that does it, but multiple generations. Germans didn't go from outsiders to rulers overnight.
But, then we have to realize the mechanism for that slow down was the speed of travel at that time. Germans could travel faster than Romans. It's actually why so many middle eastern people have trade as a major part of their culture, they are the roads to other lands.
Today, I can drive from Aberdeen to London in 8ish hours depending on traffic. I can get to the other side of Europe in a day pretty easily. I can contact people and do trade with someone around the world with my phone.
Then we have to include propaganda. The English are the best at it. They convinced German Submarine leadership to not use the most effective method for submarines during world war I. They almost convinced the Irish that it was ok to be British. They convinced themselves that they were winning battles in Africa and Europe throughout world war II. All major propaganda is based on their methods and the Canadian system has used it directly.
So, I would guess 2 generations.
Very common.
The Byzantine Empire had the Varangian guards (Vikings). They could no longer trust their own forces and political rivalries were out of control--bring in foreigners who could at least be bought.
The Ottoman Empires had the Janissaries (converted Christians mostly from the Balkans). Ditto.
Heck, the Gurkhas in British India were the elite forces of the British army for more than a century. Tens of thousands of Gurkhas fought for and served the British in World War 2.
Perhaps a leading indicator of a nation in grave decline.
The king in french revolution also had swiss mercenaries to defend his palace
Fun fact: the national day of France is the day of the Bastille, the day the revolution took over the Bastille prison. The prison was manned by mercenaries. Mercenaries lost 2 soldiers (they surrendered after running out of ammo/supplies), Revolutionaries lost 300+ lol.
Hah, I didn't know that -- smart mercenaries!
How long did it lasted with other examples you mentioned? Just wondering if I can safely age away in my small UK village before minorities decide to take over or should I start slowly evacuating back to Poland.
Carthage had a mostly mercenary army and navy. Didn't really help when the Romans stopped engaging with Carthage and the plundering dried up
How long did that frog boiled?