This seems to be a growing problem. The Reddit groups /r/Instagram and /r/BannedFromDiscord are filled with stories of innocent people being banned by AI for supposed child pornography related issues when they did nothing wrong at all, made inappropriate jokes, or were cases of guilt by association. And these people complain that it is difficult to find a human to appeal to because it's all being done by AI now, many are only getting unbanned after contacting attorneys or filing arbitration claims.
I guess it's a good thing that AI is doing this now, given that documentary that (I think) Vice put out about the human moderators having to sit through reported gore and child abuse content, but there should be at least some form of human contact for an appeal.
I have banned lots of people and I have been banned from many things, so I can see both sides of this issue. People absolutely get banned unfairly both from AI and from human moderators. Because AI has false positives or is configured aggressively and human moderators go crazy regularly.
But also, people who get banned for good reason never admit to wrong doing - because there's no reason to. They're already banned, so they might as well say they did "nothing", and maybe some other moderator will believe them and unban them, or maybe a mob will get riled up and that's a type of revenge they can have. Or maybe a human moderator will see their bogus complaint, dig up their horrendous behavior and post it publicly and justify the ban. If that happens, well, they lost nothing because they're still banned. Plus they forced a moderator to waste more time and that's a type of revenge. This is what most GDPR requests are about too, they get to say "do this!" and the other guy has to, lets them regain some tiny amount of power. You can see this when people get arrested on body cam videos, "loosen my cuffs!", "read me my rights!", "pick up my shoe!", "call my mom!", "bring me to jail!!" - they want to give an order and have it followed to sooth their wounded ego.
People will post loli, they'll post cropped CP, or they'll behave in such away that if you know you know, and they'll do that around kids. Then you ban them and they'll try to pretend it was just a cartoon, or just a girl in a swimsuit, or they were just being friendly, or actually talking about cheese pizza, or whatever. They'll come back with a vpn or tor or on their phone, they'll recruit little buddies to help them, they'll hack into other people's accounts. You really have no idea of the depths of humanity until you're on the other end of moderation.
One virtuous moderator does not erase the fact that every single one of us here today are here because ourselves and the communities we were a part of got banned by some censorious cunt of a mod. How the fuck we came out of the days of Usenet and thought self-appointed retards with digital guns were better than a self-policing democracy built over time I don't know.
On behalf of everyone here, you're a faggot. Perhaps not you personally, but the caste you represent.
How the fuck we came out of the days of Usenet and thought self-appointed retards with digital guns were better than a self-policing democracy built over time I don't know.
People probably just figured a self policing democracy couldn't survive eternal summer.
I guess it's a good thing that AI is doing this now, given that documentary that (I think) Vice put out about the human moderators having to sit through reported gore and child abuse content
Hash checks have been used for years for that sort of thing so real people don't need to see it.
It's like mentioning dQw4w9WgXcQ and knowing at least some people are going to recognise it even though the actual character string is entirely random in creation.
Except that won't even work for cropping or re-encoding. You need image recognition. Simpler matching algorithms work for simple image manipulations, but in the age of AI image-to-image, you need an AI image classifier and that's going to have false positives so here we are.
You know how they sell those "anti AI" kits for people? Some face paint and some unusual accessories is all it takes to completely fuckup "AI detection."
So. How sure are you that these same techniques wouldn't be used by the pornographers? I don't care about the image. I want the CHILD ABUSE TO STOP. This "AI scanning" idea is fucking worthless. It's backwards. I can't believe people here would toy with the idea even for a second.
Are you sure the people deploying these systems don't leak their information to those could take advantage of it like this?
It's like pretending "master locks" are a solution to theft. It's wholly compromised by retardation. That's the "AI marketing" trick though. Get you to turn off you brain and accept their claims without challenge.
Red team everything or they will lie to you always.
I've only seen this done as some kind of performance art and it's unclear if it would even work. Seems reasonable that it could mess up systems designed for grainy security cam footage, but who knows. More advanced systems use gait analysis and thermal imaging.
> I don't care about the image. I want the CHILD ABUSE TO STOP
Ok please fill in step 2:
Let people post CP
???
Child abuse stops
>One fucking pixel
This is from 2019 and even at the time, required access to the internal workings of the neural network. It's a neat trick but it was never something that could be deployed and it won't even work on newer image classifiers.
Sure locks can be picked or cut off, but we still put locks on things, because it raises the barrier. Not everyone is a lock picking lawyer. We still do hash matching on images because there are some dumbasses who will repost CP with known hashes.
Some people misuse or overly trust locks, that doesn't mean that locks do nothing. An AI classifier should be used as part of a system, not a be-all end-all. It's a tool, that like any tool, can be misused.
Same with games. Elder Scrolls Online has been smiting accounts left, right and center recently with no appeal lifetime bans. One for using the word "nagger"* in context in chat. They (Zenimax -> Microsoft) have been popping up in forums swearing up and down that they're not using AI to monitor chat and ban people but... They're totally using AI to ban people.
*A "nagger" from the dictionary - describing someone who annoys others by constantly finding fault, complaining, or urging them to do something,
about the human moderators having to sit through reported gore and child abuse content
There was never any reason to require that. Aside from that how do you know this actually happened?
I guess it's a good thing that AI is doing this now
Law enforcement should be handling this. You don't see the slope here? They're working to EXCLUDE law enforcement from their platforms. They want to be the law enforcement themselves.
Defund the police is more than about reducing patrol volume in your area. It's about shutting down working task forces that handled this before. Then it's about taking that control into corporations. Now you're stuck with "binding arbitration" rather than a "juicy federal lawsuit."
This seems to be a growing problem. The Reddit groups /r/Instagram and /r/BannedFromDiscord are filled with stories of innocent people being banned by AI for supposed child pornography related issues when they did nothing wrong at all, made inappropriate jokes, or were cases of guilt by association. And these people complain that it is difficult to find a human to appeal to because it's all being done by AI now, many are only getting unbanned after contacting attorneys or filing arbitration claims.
I guess it's a good thing that AI is doing this now, given that documentary that (I think) Vice put out about the human moderators having to sit through reported gore and child abuse content, but there should be at least some form of human contact for an appeal.
I have banned lots of people and I have been banned from many things, so I can see both sides of this issue. People absolutely get banned unfairly both from AI and from human moderators. Because AI has false positives or is configured aggressively and human moderators go crazy regularly.
But also, people who get banned for good reason never admit to wrong doing - because there's no reason to. They're already banned, so they might as well say they did "nothing", and maybe some other moderator will believe them and unban them, or maybe a mob will get riled up and that's a type of revenge they can have. Or maybe a human moderator will see their bogus complaint, dig up their horrendous behavior and post it publicly and justify the ban. If that happens, well, they lost nothing because they're still banned. Plus they forced a moderator to waste more time and that's a type of revenge. This is what most GDPR requests are about too, they get to say "do this!" and the other guy has to, lets them regain some tiny amount of power. You can see this when people get arrested on body cam videos, "loosen my cuffs!", "read me my rights!", "pick up my shoe!", "call my mom!", "bring me to jail!!" - they want to give an order and have it followed to sooth their wounded ego.
People will post loli, they'll post cropped CP, or they'll behave in such away that if you know you know, and they'll do that around kids. Then you ban them and they'll try to pretend it was just a cartoon, or just a girl in a swimsuit, or they were just being friendly, or actually talking about cheese pizza, or whatever. They'll come back with a vpn or tor or on their phone, they'll recruit little buddies to help them, they'll hack into other people's accounts. You really have no idea of the depths of humanity until you're on the other end of moderation.
Pah.
One virtuous moderator does not erase the fact that every single one of us here today are here because ourselves and the communities we were a part of got banned by some censorious cunt of a mod. How the fuck we came out of the days of Usenet and thought self-appointed retards with digital guns were better than a self-policing democracy built over time I don't know.
On behalf of everyone here, you're a faggot. Perhaps not you personally, but the caste you represent.
>self-appointed retards
>self-policing democracy
Are these not the same thing?
People probably just figured a self policing democracy couldn't survive eternal summer.
Yeah, it's hard to trust the banned.
Youtube is getting flooded with low tier AI spam and deceptive stolen slop from other people's content, so they really aught to be banning more.
And none of the people banned will admit it publicly when they're calling on youtube to reverse the policy.
Hash checks have been used for years for that sort of thing so real people don't need to see it.
It's like mentioning dQw4w9WgXcQ and knowing at least some people are going to recognise it even though the actual character string is entirely random in creation.
>Hash checks have been used for years
Except that won't even work for cropping or re-encoding. You need image recognition. Simpler matching algorithms work for simple image manipulations, but in the age of AI image-to-image, you need an AI image classifier and that's going to have false positives so here we are.
You know how they sell those "anti AI" kits for people? Some face paint and some unusual accessories is all it takes to completely fuckup "AI detection."
So. How sure are you that these same techniques wouldn't be used by the pornographers? I don't care about the image. I want the CHILD ABUSE TO STOP. This "AI scanning" idea is fucking worthless. It's backwards. I can't believe people here would toy with the idea even for a second.
One fucking pixel is all it takes. https://www.kaggle.com/discussions/general/562475
Are you sure the people deploying these systems don't leak their information to those could take advantage of it like this?
It's like pretending "master locks" are a solution to theft. It's wholly compromised by retardation. That's the "AI marketing" trick though. Get you to turn off you brain and accept their claims without challenge.
Red team everything or they will lie to you always.
>face paint
I've only seen this done as some kind of performance art and it's unclear if it would even work. Seems reasonable that it could mess up systems designed for grainy security cam footage, but who knows. More advanced systems use gait analysis and thermal imaging.
> I don't care about the image. I want the CHILD ABUSE TO STOP
Ok please fill in step 2:
Let people post CP
???
Child abuse stops
>One fucking pixel
This is from 2019 and even at the time, required access to the internal workings of the neural network. It's a neat trick but it was never something that could be deployed and it won't even work on newer image classifiers.
Sure locks can be picked or cut off, but we still put locks on things, because it raises the barrier. Not everyone is a lock picking lawyer. We still do hash matching on images because there are some dumbasses who will repost CP with known hashes.
Some people misuse or overly trust locks, that doesn't mean that locks do nothing. An AI classifier should be used as part of a system, not a be-all end-all. It's a tool, that like any tool, can be misused.
Same with games. Elder Scrolls Online has been smiting accounts left, right and center recently with no appeal lifetime bans. One for using the word "nagger"* in context in chat. They (Zenimax -> Microsoft) have been popping up in forums swearing up and down that they're not using AI to monitor chat and ban people but... They're totally using AI to ban people.
*A "nagger" from the dictionary - describing someone who annoys others by constantly finding fault, complaining, or urging them to do something,
Zenimax are a bunch of naggers
There was never any reason to require that. Aside from that how do you know this actually happened?
Law enforcement should be handling this. You don't see the slope here? They're working to EXCLUDE law enforcement from their platforms. They want to be the law enforcement themselves.
Defund the police is more than about reducing patrol volume in your area. It's about shutting down working task forces that handled this before. Then it's about taking that control into corporations. Now you're stuck with "binding arbitration" rather than a "juicy federal lawsuit."
It's a game. You can't see it any other way.