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46
An 'Insider' claims GRRM finished "The Winds of Winter" in 2016. He didn't publish it because of fan's dislike of later GOT seasons and ending. You guys buying or selling this? (archive.ph)
posted 363 days ago by Mpetey123 363 days ago by Mpetey123 +46 / -0
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▲ 11 ▼
– LibertyPrimeWasRight 11 points 363 days ago +11 / -0

It seems obvious he's "stuck" in some way, whether that's fear of his ending being unpopular or perhaps a lack of planning on how to get to his ending (or even how concrete that ending is) leaving him somewhat written into a corner. It could be that his ending was like the show, it could be that his ending was different, it could even be that his ending doesn't exist at all—he might have no idea how he wants to move forward. I have some trouble believing this rumor, though, because even if there were murmurings of unease that would mean he had to have a whole book written and submitted to the degree that this alleged industry insider could have heard about it before season six aired and then waffle on it for another three years before abandoning it after season eight. I know he's got a lot more leeway than most writers, but I imagine his publisher would have pushed him forward at some point if the completed book really did exist.

On a side note, I think the popular theory about Martin is that he's got a real downer ending because of all those comments he made about wanting to write a grimmer and grittier, more "realistic" fantasy story where there aren't as many real heroes, and they aren't as successful, and that now that he's seen how "subversions" like that are received, he's nervous. I think that's definitely possible. But another, funnier possibility is that he actually has a more traditionally upbeat ending where the characters he's set up as heroes (Jon, Bran, Arya, Daenerys, Tyrion) actually do end up doing heroic things and now he's afraid to disappoint people who expect him to be a cynic to the end. I mean, he did set up all these characters... he can't be totally blind to what he's doing, right?

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▲ 10 ▼
– Mpetey123 [S] 10 points 363 days ago +10 / -0

He's talked about how he has an ending place in mind but he doesn't know how to get all the characters there. And I've heard him talk about how he's not an architect with writing, he's a gardener. That he loosely plans and tries to cultivate the characters as he is writing.

It would be kind of funny if the problem in his subversive fantasy novel is it keeps ending like a fantasy novel. But even those are usually more bittersweet than sugary sweet. Either way that fat fuck should make a decision and move forward. Let the pieces fall wherever they land

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▲ 9 ▼
– Arkana 9 points 363 days ago +9 / -0

Based on fan theory the ending will be about taking down the wall to save the others. Basically the whole thing seems to be an allegory for "putting up walls to keep people out is bad and it creates monsters"

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▲ 14 ▼
– FromTheShadows 14 points 362 days ago +14 / -0

And if that isn't what George intended and it was always his plan for the Others to be an evil that needed to be walled off and eventually beaten back, then it's likely putting him in a crisis of conscience as his books are preaching the value of borders and walls when his whole political faction is fighting tooth and nail against that entire concept. Hell, you could say ASoIaF is unintentionally making a case against globalism because we're seeing how the Seven Kingdoms are breaking down (and apart) despite the ruling bureaucracy's every attempt to preserve the empire. Definitely not a theme he wants to preach in his "realistic" fantasy series.

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▲ 6 ▼
– Arkana 6 points 362 days ago +6 / -0

It's the only explanation that ties in Danaerys doing everything with freeing slaves, the house of the undying, and Arya with the faceless men into the main core themes of the story. They are not random diversions, but directly tie into the main concept he started with.

One of the reasons its so compelling is that George is still basically an old hippie so it makes sense that would essentially be the core of it all. And it might be why he is struggling so much, that in this modern world where the US and Europe basically have torn down the wall and welcomed "the others" in its leading to the destruction of culture and cities. He might be having a change of heart, or at least hesitation to keep up with that central theme.

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... continue reading thread?
▲ 3 ▼
– LastRights 3 points 362 days ago +3 / -0

The Dothraki will end up ruling Westeros and the 'white' walkers will have been held back behind the Wall.

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▲ 8 ▼
– ACanadianGoose 8 points 362 days ago +8 / -0

Gay if true.

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▲ 6 ▼
– Adamrises 6 points 362 days ago +6 / -0

and that now that he's seen how "subversions" like that are received, he's nervous.

Well that's what happens when you go so slowly that you manage to not only help found a cultural shift towards a certain genre, but you manage to first make people sick of it and then outlive it entirely before you finish a single fucking book.

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▲ 4 ▼
– DemolitionsPanda 4 points 362 days ago +4 / -0

There are too many PoV characters. It makes the story almost impossible to write. Pacing becomes a nightmare.

On top of that, GoT was unapologetically filled with brutal sex and violence.

George has lead the charge of feminists in the publishing industry. Writing a story like the early GoT is politically suicidal. No matter what he does more than half his audience will be pissed off. It is a no win situation.

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